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Thread: "Dance on ashes of the world"

  1. #1
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    Default "Dance on ashes of the world"

    Title quote: Rise Against - The Unraveling

    Hello people,

    Been a while since I were on this forum, but I will start rating new threads again :3 This is my new team, to make my pseudo-comeback, centered around my all-time favourite pokemon: Salamence. This team supports his sweep, and can kill all of its threats (but genesect, who will/needs to be banned soon). Please help me improve, as you have done multiple times before succesfully. I present you:
    ---edits are in Bold
    edited edits are in italics---

    Ignis (Salamence) (M) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Dragon Claw
    - Fire Blast
    - Earthquake

    Ignis, my Salamence, is the star of this team. I took this moveset from a fellow P4L member, since mine, wel, sucked. Now this Salamence is an excellent set-up sweeper, with Dragon Dance to boost its speed and attack, with Dragon Claw as a reliable STAB that doesn't lock me in. Earthquake is self-explanatory, just killing most stuff resisting Dragon, and Fire Blast is to kill Scizor and Ferrothorn (and currently those pesky Genesect on PO). Naive is to not lower Fire Blast's power, while Lum Berry saves my sweep from a status induction once. I will not use Outrage for it being unnecessary powerful, locking me in, and confusing me afterwards.

    Now, here are the new team members, that have replaced the previous 5:


    Dusknoir (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
    - Earthquake
    - Brick Break
    - Ice Punch
    - Shadow Sneak

    Dusknoir is the replacement for Gliscor, to take hits and hit back hard. Earthquake is its main move, hitting the majority of the metagame for solid damage. Brick Break is for coverage and doing massive damage to Tyranitar. Ice Punch is for coverage against Flying and Dragon types, where Shadow Sneak kills off the weakened foes.Because of my issues with Conkeldurr, I may change to his pre-evo, but for now, Dusknoir does well enough.


    Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Heal Bell
    - Softboiled
    - Counter
    - Toxic

    Chansey is here to replace Ditto and take the special hits Latios and the like tend to fire at me. I couldn't come up with a good moveset, so I gave it Counter to kill any physical attacker that doesn't kill it. Due to Bold nature, max Def investment and Eviolite it should live any but a STAB Fighting type physical attack and retaliate with immense impact. Heal Bell is a support option, to cure the other team members from annoying stati. Softboiled is to stay healthy, where Toxic slowly wears the opponents down. Only Gengar can't be hit by Chansey, but I think every Chansey has that problem. I chose Chansey over Blissey for its ability to even destroy a Choice Band Haxorus, locked into Outrage. I could use some help on the moveset, as I'd rather use a Wish supporter, but there wasn't any space left for Protect, since Counter I'd like to keep.


    Hitmontop (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Mach Punch
    - Fake Out
    - Sucker Punch
    - Rapid Spin

    Hitmontop, the new spinner of the team, also functions as a great revenge killer. Fake Out does about 30% to non-resisting opponents, after which Mach Punch usually takes care of the remaining Hp. Sucker Punch is to kill Latios after a Fake Out, also takes down Gengar and Espeon easily. Rapid Spin does do some damage actually, but its main use is known by all. Life Orb is for the power boost it needs to defeat aforementioned victims. Technician is to make it a revenge killer.


    Metagross @ Leftovers
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Pursuit
    - Bullet Punch
    - Hammer Arm

    The new hazard setter is Metagross, which can easily setup the Rocks to aid Salamence's sweep. Pursuit is to catch Espeon and Latios that flee, expecting a Meteor Mash, and do massive damage. Hammer Arm is for Dark and Steel types, Bullet Punch is priority and STAB, beating the leftovers of a Pokemon previously hit by Hammer Arm. Metagross is also the switch-in for Dragon types, locked into Outrage, but unfortunately it can't kill them.


    Rotom (Rotom-W) @ Light Clay
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Light Screen
    - Reflect

    Here is the new Dual Screener, that, with its useful resistances and espectable bulk, has a great time setting up its screens and laughing at them , whilst hitting hard with either of its STAB moves. The 4 Def EV's gives Genesect a boosted special attack, which may seem odd, but U-Turn is more dangerous for Rotom, unless it already has screens up.

        Spoiler:- Previous team members:


    Thank you for reading, I hope you all enjoyed the team. Please do rate and comment, all advice is welcome. I am willing to replace any pokemon but Salamence, the only thing on him I may change is its item. Please do reason your suggestions, and keep in mind:
    This team will need -A Spinner
    -A Dual Screener
    -A Hazard setter

    Thank you in advance.

    -SkyDriver
    Last edited by SkyDriver; 17th January 2013 at 9:59 PM.
    Challenge the P4L League here

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  2. #2
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    Nice looking team you have.

    I don't trust myself to give a full blown rate right now but I did notice on thing, your Gliscor set.

    I can understand that you don't like defesive playstyles but looking at your team, and your Gliscor set, I would suggest changing your EV spread to: 252 HP, 76 Speed, and whatever is left in Attack, with an Impish nature. Swords Dance lets you boost your attack just fine, meaning you won't lose that many KOs. The extra boost to your defense to the point that Gliscor can take plenty of hits just fine, espeically beating Terrakion which a good chunk of your team doesn't like.
    Take a moment to consider just how nothing nothing really is....If you understand this, then you just solved the universe.

    The truth that each person...each soul...is a book. And when we lay our feelings out in the open...and we give them no name...and we give them no author....and we give them no description.....who will actually read them..........?"

    Credit to Eevee for the amazing banner.
    Current fanfiction project: Pokemon: Absolution

  3. #3
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    There's a reason why Espeon is so good at Dual Screening even though that's what it does 90% of the time, Magic Bounce. Basically if you swapped Espeon for Mamoswine, Starmie wouldn't be that needed here and you could swap Starmie for something that can poke some holes for a Salamence sweep. Since you deal with Steels well, Mag isn't needed so how about a wallbreakers that can take a boosted Dragon Claw since I'm getting the feeling you'd never use Outrage. Another DD user like Haxorus could work or Latios / ScarfLatios if you really want that Speed component you lost from swapping Starmie. It also allows you to nuke Gliscor that could give a boosted Mence some problems with its great physical bulk.

  4. #4
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    Trust me when I say this. Ditto wants a Choice Scarf. Why you ask? Because when Ditto transforms with Impostor, it gains the opponent's EVs and moves. If it has any moves that hurt itself (Like D-Nite with Outrage), then Ditto will outspeed it EVERY TIME. That and Get rid of the SDef EVs on Ditto there's pointless and unnecessary. Also, If you're going Dual Screens, just go Espeon, you already weak to Fighting with Heatran and it's Mach Punch that you should worry about.

    Thank you based Turpoo

  5. #5
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    OK looking team! A couple issues with the sets though.

    First off Red Card Ditto is seriously the worst idea I have ever heard of. 50% of the time you go first and get a KO, but 50% the time the opponent goes first and wipes Ditto out. Ok yeah you make them switch but who cares. Just run Choice Scarf and kill them 100% of the time, provided they aren't scarfed too.

    Dual Screen Mamoswine is also bad. If you are going to try that run max attack and speed with jolly. You NEED to get screens up before you take a hit or else you will struggle to do anything useful. Running Jolly with max speed can help towards that. While Dual Screen Mamo is cool for the surprise factor your team doesn't even need them. You have two setup sweepers, neither of which are particularly hard to stop even with screens. You could either rework the whole team to fit with dual screen Mamo or just drop Mamo for something else.

    Consider just running Naughty on Salamence. There is very little you miss out on outrunning since 101 or higher base speed Scarfers almost always run a + speed nature and base 90-99 Pokemon aren't often scarfed with a +speed nature. Naughty Salamence outruns Timid Scarf Rotom so the only remotely common thing you MIGHT lose out on is Scarf Timid Hydreigon, but this basically is never used. Running Naughty gives you some BADLY needed KOs. Things that would survive like Thundurus, Starmie, Espeon, and Volcarona now are OHKOed letting you continue a moxie sweep without worrying about being checked as easily.



    You are extremely weak to Choice Band Terrakion. It can simply Stone Edges its way through your team. With rocks up nothing, not even Gliscor, is guaranteed survival from two hits. You could make Gliscor more defensive since offensive SD Gliscor is a terrible set anyway. You can also drop Mamoswine for a Swords Dance Scizor. Though Scizor doesn't really switch in on Terrakion it gives it one less opportunity to get a free kill while giving you a powerful offensive sweeper.

  6. #6
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    Thank you all for your comments, much appreciated ^-^

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulMuse View Post
    Nice looking team you have.

    I don't trust myself to give a full blown rate right now but I did notice on thing, your Gliscor set.

    I can understand that you don't like defesive playstyles but looking at your team, and your Gliscor set, I would suggest changing your EV spread to: 252 HP, 76 Speed, and whatever is left in Attack, with an Impish nature. Swords Dance lets you boost your attack just fine, meaning you won't lose that many KOs. The extra boost to your defense to the point that Gliscor can take plenty of hits just fine, espeically beating Terrakion which a good chunk of your team doesn't like.
    I certainly will test this, as Terrakion can be a pain to stop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Atrocious View Post
    There's a reason why Espeon is so good at Dual Screening even though that's what it does 90% of the time, Magic Bounce. Basically if you swapped Espeon for Mamoswine, Starmie wouldn't be that needed here and you could swap Starmie for something that can poke some holes for a Salamence sweep. Since you deal with Steels well, so how about a wallbreakers that can take a boosted Dragon Claw since I'm getting the feeling you'd never use Outrage. Another DD user like Haxorus could work or Latios / ScarfLatios if you really want that Speed component you lost from swapping Starmie. It also allows you to nuke Gliscor that could give a boosted Mence some problems with its great physical bulk.
    I prefer to keep Starmie, as even with a Magic Bouncer hazards can get up (Espeon is 2HKO'ed from Ferro's Gyro Ball). >Mag isn't needed< Who do you mean here? And I don't really get what you're saying with the wallbreakers that can take a boosted Dragon Claw...

    Quote Originally Posted by pikachu725 View Post
    Trust me when I say this. Ditto wants a Choice Scarf. Why you ask? Because when Ditto transforms with Impostor, it gains the opponent's EVs and moves. If it has any moves that hurt itself (Like D-Nite with Outrage), then Ditto will outspeed it EVERY TIME. That and Get rid of the SDef EVs on Ditto there's pointless and unnecessary. Also, If you're going Dual Screens, just go Espeon, you already weak to Fighting with Heatran and it's Mach Punch that you should worry about.
    Scarf seems ti be better after testing, so I'll change that. And even though the SpD EV's seem worthless, it can take a Zoroark's Dark Pulse once, and beside that, where should I put them otherwise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    OK looking team! A couple issues with the sets though.

    First off Red Card Ditto is seriously the worst idea I have ever heard of. 50% of the time you go first and get a KO, but 50% the time the opponent goes first and wipes Ditto out. Ok yeah you make them switch but who cares. Just run Choice Scarf and kill them 100% of the time, provided they aren't scarfed too.

    Dual Screen Mamoswine is also bad. If you are going to try that run max attack and speed with jolly. You NEED to get screens up before you take a hit or else you will struggle to do anything useful. Running Jolly with max speed can help towards that. While Dual Screen Mamo is cool for the surprise factor your team doesn't even need them. You have two setup sweepers, neither of which are particularly hard to stop even with screens. You could either rework the whole team to fit with dual screen Mamo or just drop Mamo for something else.

    Consider just running Naughty on Salamence. There is very little you miss out on outrunning since 101 or higher base speed Scarfers almost always run a + speed nature and base 90-99 Pokemon aren't often scarfed with a +speed nature. Naughty Salamence outruns Timid Scarf Rotom so the only remotely common thing you MIGHT lose out on is Scarf Timid Hydreigon, but this basically is never used. Running Naughty gives you some BADLY needed KOs. Things that would survive like Thundurus, Starmie, Espeon, and Volcarona now are OHKOed letting you continue a moxie sweep without worrying about being checked as easily.



    You are extremely weak to Choice Band Terrakion. It can simply Stone Edges its way through your team. With rocks up nothing, not even Gliscor, is guaranteed survival from two hits. You could make Gliscor more defensive since offensive SD Gliscor is a terrible set anyway. You can also drop Mamoswine for a Swords Dance Scizor. Though Scizor doesn't really switch in on Terrakion it gives it one less opportunity to get a free kill while giving you a powerful offensive sweeper.
    Scarfed Ditto it is :3 And Mamo can set up one screen for free, cuz it does force switches. And the max Hp let it take even more hits behind its screens. It does work pretty well. I will test Naughty on Mence, but if it's outrun too often I'll change back.
    I really don't want to use another set up poke, ad CB Scizor don't work for me. I will make Gliscor somewhat more defensive, hope that works. Should I give it roost > SD?

    EDIT: Main weakness: rain
    Last edited by SkyDriver; 17th January 2013 at 12:17 PM.
    Challenge the P4L League here

    The Netherlands:
    ORAS Demo available at:
    - Nintendo Autumn Tour. Dates and locations found >here<
    - Using Nintendo Zone in a Game Mania store

    Diancie:
    -Both stores out of codes. Way to go Nintendo ._.

    I have claimed the awesome Kingdra

  7. #7
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    Meant walls. Lol. Stuff that can take a boosted Dragon Claw and return a OHKO i.e. Gliscor with Ice Fang, etc.

    Mag = Magnazone.

    Ferro 2HKOs through screens?

  8. #8
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    When I said to take out the SDef Evs, you're not going to be able to put it anywhere else because the transformation doesn't take your EVs over. HP Evs are the only thing that make a difference. Just saying that. Sorry I didn't clarify earlier.

    Thank you based Turpoo

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