Are edited TR vs TP episodes a possibility with the new opening?

[CyberCubed]

Dephender, what do you make of the plothole between BW022 and 25 if the episodes are retconned into the current storyline?

Well if its any case, the dub actually edited out the last scene where Ash and co. go on the helicopter to investigate. So for dub fans the originally skipped stuff doesn't matter too much.

[Haunter227]

Well if its any case, the dub actually edited out the last scene where Ash and co. go on the helicopter to investigate. So for dub fans the originally skipped stuff doesn't matter too much.

True, but everybody in this fandom (Pokemon Forums etc.) know that the Japanese is the original.

[CyberCubed]

As Dephender said, at least the episodes are airing despite some continuity placements.

No different than Holiday Hi-Jynx being aired later with Ash having a Charmander again.

[Haunter227]

As Dephender said, at least the episodes are airing despite some continuity placements.

No different than Holiday Hi-Jynx being aired later with Ash having a Charmander again.

Agreed, and if you saw my reply earlier. Depending on how differently it's been edited i'll probably just view it as BW023/24.

Holiday Hi-Jynx was a standalone episode though and wasn't retconned, it was just place at a later time despite the events that had happened before. This makes it sound like they will be worked into the current storyline meaning TR will have white uniforms, Ash's Team will have changed etc.

[Graham Aker]

I'm glad the episodes will likely be airing. I guess the changes will fall under the outfits of Team Plasma, Team Rocket and the gangs Pokemon.

[AgentPierce]

@Dephender's long post: I think you're dead-on in everything you said. That's very likely the ultimate reason for the long delay.

That, and finding an appropriate point to air them that TPCI would agree with, seeing as their skipping forced TPCI to make that edit to BW022 covering up the plot hole. I don't think TPCI wanted TV Tokyo just airing them out of nowhere between unrelated episodes, as that would end up being how it went in the dub too, thus confusing many dub viewers.

One slip-up, though:

We know that episodes go into production long before they air - 8 months+.

6 months+, actually. That's what was said. Still, the full plans for the entire initial story arc, with TR vs. TP as the conclusion, would have been made before BW even aired.

I truly don't believe that the opening is indicating anything about the episodes. It's just a reference.

To reference episodes that were cancelled is a fool's move, and contradicts the claims of those who believe they're cancelled that the studio "wants people to forget about them." Plus, Liepard is seen again toward the end of the OP, being beaten by the Looker/TRio team. All the other Plasma Pokemon in the OP (the ones controlled by Colress) are going to be in the show, so logically, so will Liepard. And what better way to introduce it than through those episodes that are being referenced in it's first scene on the OP? Makes perfect sense to me.

Actually, I heard about the source too but never saw anything about it, link/source please?

Here is the source: it's a French site and the likely TPCI guy commenting is Goltik. And as for why he's likely in TPCI, it's worth noting is that he didn't even start commenting by talking about the two-parter; he actually first said something that in hindsight was absolutely correct: that the Unova League is going to be in Season 16 of the dub, not Season 15, and that Best Wishes will end in 2013. To know both of these waaay ahead of time before they became public knowledge, and said with such certainty, indicates he's an inside guy.

And before anyone says anything, there is a glitch on the site that always makes the comments' dates read the current month. All comments were actually made in February 2012.

BTW, it's also interesting that a Latin American source said the same basic thing a week prior, but in less detail than Goltik did (they said the episodes "come with modifications", whereas Goltik went the whole hog and directly compared them to the fishing episode, noting that the scenario / placement was changed.)

This makes it sound like they will be worked into the current storyline meaning TR will have white uniforms, Ash's Team will have changed etc

That's assuming he used any members of his team aside from Pikachu in the two-parter to begin with. He very well may not have.

Q1 is usually January-March. That's early 2013.

Correct. Note that Goltik also said "Late 2012" as a possibility. In fact, it really never was one, but "Season 16" started in Japan in Q4 and, had there not been some weekly breaks that were not anticipated back when these comments were made, Episode N could have started in December as well. This makes sense: if Goltik is with TPCI and thus not one of the actual Japanese production team members, then he doesn't know the exact ordering of the episodes in "Season 16", just the content (The Unova League, Episode N and the two-parter, etc.) Hence, his need to speculate Late 2012 in additon to early 2013.

[Venusaur Master]

The last few weeks I was getting to the stage of "ok were getting a new TR vs TP plot and it might be better than the skipped 2 parter" But now Im a bit excited again to think were getting at least a modified version of it soon. I agree there is no point showing a scene based of the 2 parter if we aren't getting something to do with it. If we had some sort of official word either way it would to some degree stop the arguments over this. Do we know when that Japan Pokemon magazine gets released this month? It might have something since it featured info on Colress and Looker last month way before the episode title came out.

[AgentPierce]

If we had some sort of official word either way it would to some degree stop the arguments over this.

I agree, and I say we patiently wait out the next three weeks, as they're the most likely for, at any given time, confirmation to occur, whether online, in a magazine, or in the show.

I should point out that the old TR vs. TP trailer was removed from Youtube and blocked from being reuploaded back in November. This makes me wonder if perhaps a modified trailer for the modified version will be coming out soon. The text at the end of the trailer read "coming in March"...at this point, that might just end up being kept intact! We will just have to see....

[Dephender]

Do we know when that Japan Pokemon magazine gets released this month? It might have something since it featured info on Colress and Looker last month way before the episode title came out.

It's an erratically published magazine with no issue released this month.

One slip-up, though:

6 months+, actually. That's what was said. Still, the full plans for the entire initial story arc, with TR vs. TP as the conclusion, would have been made before BW even aired.

Oops. Yeah, you're right.

[Venusaur Master]

Sure we already know TR is hacking into Plasma's computers in a few weeks. That's bound to lead to some confrontation between both groups whether its the 2 parter or something like it at least. I doubt they're teaming up with Looker straight away. Plus why team up with him if TR is still an active organization that he would see as just as dangerous as Plasma?

[nuzamaki90]

The scene where Liepard is bombing the s*** out of a building most likely takes place in Black City which is a large city that can take the place of Castelia City.

The TR VS TP episodes are gone forever, but the writers will most likely just re-use animations like Jesse shooting s*** up and Liepard doing the same for the new episodes like they did with the Operation Tempest episodes.

[Venusaur Master]

Yeah I cant see the desert resort portion returning, the most Im hoping for is the TR building mascarade party scene and whatever Team Plasma battles came after

[Verdant]

Assuming they do air a modified version of the TR vs TP episodes soon, I still think it's damn shame we'll never know what the conclusion would be from the original TR vs TP episodes.
I mean what happened to Pierce? What were the writers originally planning to do with TP? I guess we'll never know

[Akuroma]

In the dub, I think they'll just do a flashback of it and air the two-parter before Neo Team Plasma is introduced.

[AgentPierce]

Assuming they do air a modified version of the TR vs TP episodes soon, I still think it's damn shame we'll never know what the conclusion would be from the original TR vs TP episodes. I mean what happened to Pierce? What were the writers originally planning to do with TP? I guess we'll never know

1. It'll probably be very easy to guess what the conclusion was in the original from watching a modified version.

2. Pierce would almost definately still be in the modified version. He'd be extremely difficult to animate around.

3. The writers most likely never HAD any "original plans" for TP that got scrapped; as Dephender said, they were always waiting on B2W2 before deciding how to do the Plasma plot.

The TR VS TP episodes are gone forever

Do you have a source for that claim?

Yeah I cant see the desert resort portion returning

The desert resort portion would be easy to return; did you notice how much wasteland there is prior to the White Ruins on that map in the recent episode?

In the dub, I think they'll just do a flashback of it and air the two-parter before Neo Team Plasma is introduced.

That'd be nice and all, but then what the heck would be the point of Neo Team Plasma in the helicopter with Liepard in the OP?

[Akuroma]

That'd be nice and all, but then what the heck would be the point of Neo Team Plasma in the helicopter with Liepard in the OP?

I thought they were just attacking the building to free the Genesect; unless I'm wrong, and they were truly trashing Team Rocket's party, which could be another reason to believe that they edited the whole two-parter which is now in the new opening. Maybe it's entirely a new plot?

[The Great Butler]

To reference episodes that were cancelled is a fool's move, and contradicts the claims of those who believe they're cancelled that the studio "wants people to forget about them." Plus, Liepard is seen again toward the end of the OP, being beaten by the Looker/TRio team. All the other Plasma Pokemon in the OP (the ones controlled by Colress) are going to be in the show, so logically, so will Liepard. And what better way to introduce it than through those episodes that are being referenced in it's first scene on the OP? Makes perfect sense to me.

Liepard is a signature Pokemon of Team Plasma, so it being present doesn't really mean much for any specific scenario.

Sure we already know TR is hacking into Plasma's computers in a few weeks. That's bound to lead to some confrontation between both groups whether its the 2 parter or something like it at least.

We don't even know if Team Rocket actually escapes with the data or not. Let's see if Colress and Team Plasma don't run them down right then and there first.

[the1stpkmnfan]

They were lazy making the opening even, they reused the Oshawott dodging Palpitoad mud bombs in the lake scene even.

As well as Dragonite using Flamethrower during Operation Tempest.

[Venusaur Master]

Even after seeing Plasma debut officially now, Im really 50/50 on whats gonna happen with this 2 parter. We know were getting close to Castelia is it too early to get a hint yet other than the opening?

[The Great Butler]

Even after seeing Plasma debut officially now, Im really 50/50 on whats gonna happen with this 2 parter. We know were getting close to Castelia is it too early to get a hint yet other than the opening?

I'd put... 75% odds on new episodes airing that merely recycle a lot of footage. Too many inexplicable moves would have to be made to simply just retcon the original episodes: the return of Pierce, Dr. Zager and Giovanni with no explanation, the trio going back to doing serious missions instead of what we see now, bringing the Meteonite back up with no explanation, excluding N and Colress (and possibly even Ghetsis) from the story, all on top of the existing necessary retcons such as Krokorok and the Plasma Grunts.

There will be a Team Rocket VS. Team Plasma episode or episodes, but don't count on it being what was supposed to have aired. Recycled footage does not the same episode make.

[AgentPierce]

the return of Pierce, Dr. Zager and Giovanni with no explanation

Giovanni returned for Operation Tempest with no explanation. He, along with Pierce and Zager, can easily do the same here.

the trio going back to doing serious missions instead of what we see now

We'll probably get a lead-in to why that's happening in the episode directly prior to the two-parter.

bringing the Meteonite back up with no explanation

Again, we don't know for sure that there won't be an explanation in the previous episode.

excluding N and Colress (and possibly even Ghetsis) from the story

There's no reason for any of them to have to be in the story. Just Angie and the other Plasma Grunts would be enough.

There will be a Team Rocket VS. Team Plasma episode or episodes, but don't count on it being what was supposed to have aired. Recycled footage does not the same episode make.

Except it's been explicity stated that they will be those exact episodes, not just new episodes with some recycled footage.

It won't be exactly what was supposed to have aired due to the retconning, but still close enough.

[Haunter227]

but still close enough.

Which by the looks of it will be EXTREMELY different.

We'll probably have Neo-Team Plasma which is enough in itself to make it unclose to the original.

[Pokemaniac24]

Which by the looks of it will be EXTREMELY different.

We'll probably have Neo-Team Plasma which is enough in itself to make it unclose to the original.

That would probably be the only major change and we should have expected that change since there was no way they were going to introduce BW TP if they are not relevant to the story right now.

[AgentPierce]

Which by the looks of it will be EXTREMELY different.

We'll probably have Neo-Team Plasma which is enough in itself to make it unclose to the original.

So? That aside, most of all we know of the original episodes from clips and trailers can very easily be kept it tact.

All this can be kept the same, save for Jessie and James' uniforms being palette-swapped to white.

For the rest, the Grunts are the only required change, and some dialogue changes here and there.

[Haunter227]

That would probably be the only major change and we should have expected that change since there was no way they were going to introduce BW TP if they are not relevant to the story right now.

So? That aside, most of all we know of the original episodes from clips and trailers can very easily be kept it tact.

All this can be kept the same, save for Jessie and James' uniforms being palette-swapped to white.

For the rest, the Grunts are the only required change.

Eh, I know. I'm just being a jerk about it really.

I hate to say it but i really can't get over the retconning/editing of the TR vs TP situation.