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Thread: Are edited TR vs TP episodes a possibility with the new opening?

  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post
    You don't think that this will be the end of Giovanni, do you?
    If Giovanni gets finished off in these episodes, it would be so anti-climatic. I don't think it will happen though. I hope not.

  2. #252
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    Well, it seems I was right and Kein was wrong, and yet Kein was also right and I was wrong.

    Kein was wrong in a new TR vs. TP two-parter not happening. It totally is.

    I was wrong in that all the magazine scenes were from one episode; it's actually from two.

    Still, N's past can't carry an episode, so I suspect it'll either be part 1 of the new two-parter or, if the titled "TR vs. TP" is still a two-parter, then a lead-in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    Kein was wrong in a new TR vs. TP two-parter not happening. It totally is.
    Nope. We're getting a single episode about Colress and Meowth that will deal with Genesect in some way. No one other than you considers that to be a retcon of the now-obsolete two-parter.

  4. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post
    Nope. We're getting a single episode about Colress and Meowth that will deal with Genesect in some way.
    That's not what the early 2012 sources said, and there's nothing definitevely proving otherwise.

    Again, the episode with N's past and the episode with Genesect may constitute the new form of the two-parter, or "TR vs. TP! Meowth and Colress" could be a 1-hour special.

    I lean more toward the former than the latter, as I really doubt they'd list the White Ruins episode afterward and not a second part if there was one.

    No one other than you considers that to be a retcon of the now-obsolete two-parter.
    Except damn near everyone so far on the thread annoucing the title.

  5. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    That's not what the early 2012 sources said, and there's nothing definitevely proving otherwise.
    What does it matter what anyone said a year ago? The episode title proves that the focus is on Colress and Meowth, and we know that Genesect will be featured in some way.

    Again, the episode with N's past and the episode with Genesect may constitute the new form of the two-parter, or "TR vs. TP! Meowth and Colress" could be a 1-hour special.

    I lean more toward the former than the latter, as I really doubt they'd list the White Ruins episode afterward and not a second part if there was one.
    N's episode takes place in a misty forest, which is probably the one from the ending. We'll see Anthea, Concordia and the forest Pokémon (like Gardevoir and Gothitelle from the calendar). Whether or not the flashbacks will take up most of the episode is irrelevant to the fact that there is no reason to expect this to be the first part of a Team Rocket plot.

    There would be two titles for March 28th if it were a two-parter. That's how it works.

    Except damn near everyone so far on the thread annoucing the title.
    Even your friends don't seem to agree with you.

  6. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post
    What does it matter what anyone said a year ago? The episode title proves that the focus is on Colress and Meowth, and we know that Genesect will be featured in some way.
    The title also says "Team Rocket vs. Team Plasma".

    Do you really think that nothing from the two-parter will be in it, especially since it's in Castelia City and the opening shows the Genesects appearing after the freaking Liepard scene?

    And do you really think the writers are retarded enough to name something that and NOT have any relation to the scrapped two-parter?

    N's episode takes place in a misty forest, which is probably the one from the ending
    I see a lake, pond, or body of water. Not a forest. Though if it is the forest, which it could be, note that the ending shows it RIGHT NEXT TO CASTELIA CITY.

    Even your friends don't seem to agree with you.
    The Great Butler, Pokemaniac24, and Dephender beg to differ.
    Last edited by AgentPierce; 21st February 2013 at 5:57 AM.

  7. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    Do you really think that nothing from the two-parter will be in it, especially since it's in Castelia City and the opening shows the Genesects appearing after the freaking Liepard scene?
    We don't know that the episode takes place in Castelia City. Was the Cheren battle set in a church? Anyway, I do think that we could see some reused footage just as Operation Tempest had that infamous scene.

    And do you really think the writers are retarded enough to name something that and NOT have any relation to the scrapped two-parter?
    Retarded, really? "Team Rocket VS Team Plasma" is a generic title, and the fact that this isn't a two-parter and that the rest of the title pertains to Meowth and Colress should clarify that this is a new plot.

    Though if it is the forest, which it could be, note that the ending shows it RIGHT NEXT TO CASTELIA CITY.
    Absolutely not. The forest overlooks some city, but Castelia is surrounded by a desert, so that alone rules it out.

    The Great Butler, Pokemaniac24, and Dephender beg to differ.
    They can speak for themselves.

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    For the love of Arceus what heck is going on here >.<

    From the looks of it there won't be a TP vs TR parter left before the climax airs so unless something happens afterwards the colress&meowth is all you get.

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    So we only get 1 episode huh? Not exactly what I was hoping for but it will do.

    Let's just hope it will have Giovanni and Zager in it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdant View Post
    Let's just hope it will have Giovanni and Zager in it
    I doubt it. Now that we know that the Pokémon Fan biographies were in reference to the remainder of Episode N as a whole, it makes no sense that Giovanni would be excluded if he were going to appear. Even Cedric Juniper got a section.

    Plus, Giovanni and Zager having a role in just one episode and not staying for the White Ruins finale would be rather pointless and random. We know that the trio will cooperate with Looker, and that partnership could very well start in this episode.
    Last edited by Kein; 21st February 2013 at 8:15 AM.

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    I don't like the idea of it being only the TRio against Team Plasma. Honestly, TRio doesn't stand a chance by themselves but we know they are going to lose anyway since Plasma seems to be fine when the White Ruins come along.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemaniac24 View Post
    I don't like the idea of it being only the TRio against Team Plasma. Honestly, TRio doesn't stand a chance by themselves but we know they are going to lose anyway since Plasma seems to be fine when the White Ruins come along.
    Would you rather that they lose with Giovanni and Zager on their side?

  13. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post
    Would you rather that they lose with Giovanni and Zager on their side?
    That's a good point. The show would never do this but it's times like these where I wish they brought in Pierce, Butch and Cassidy to help Jessie, James and Meowth. I wouldn't mind seeing the 6 of them lose.

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    To be fair, they may just be going against Colress and Angie. The grunts don't have to be focused on.

    Speaking of the original two-parter, I doubt that Team Plasma were supposed to win. They were just a few grunts going against a much more impressive assembly of Team Rocket representatives, and they even had Looker going after them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post
    To be fair, they may just be going against Colress and Angie. The grunts don't have to be focused on.
    I think Colress is too much for them to handle though XD I mean Meowth is a good manipulator but we all know Colress is going to win.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post
    Speaking of the original two-parter, I doubt that Team Plasma were supposed to win. They were just a few grunts going against a much more impressive assembly of Team Rocket representatives, and they even had Looker going after them.
    I don't think Team Plasma won either. I think the only major loss Team Rocket had during that was possibly losing Pierce but I think that was Looker's work, not Plasma's.
    Last edited by Pokemaniac24; 21st February 2013 at 8:37 AM.

  16. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemaniac24 View Post
    I think Colress is too much for them to handle though XD I mean Meowth is a good manipulator but we all know Colress is going to win.
    True, but at least it won't necessarily feel like a hopeless battle.

  17. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post
    True, but at least it won't necessarily feel like a hopeless battle.
    That's true. The way they are hyping it up makes me think it would be way closer than their last battle with Plasma.

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    The only way I can see TR vs TP happening is if they moved it to the Genesect movie. It's seeing Colress being involved with the Shiny Genesect and Mewtwo being reawakened that gives me that impression. The city where Mewtwo fled too can easily be retconed into being Castelia City or whatever city this movie takes place in. That would mean that TP, Ghetsis, and Colress escape Looker though. Unless it is just Ghetsis and Colress w/ Shiny Genesect + pals vs Giovanni and Zager w/ Metwo and the TRio. Ash and co. caught in the middle as usual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by _Taidow_ View Post
    It's seeing Colress being involved with the Shiny Genesect and Mewtwo being reawakened that gives me that impression.
    The movie website defines awakening as "the act of waking up, or of snapping out of something", but then adds that it can also mean "coming to one's senses and realizing the errors of one's ways". This heavily implies that Mewtwo won't be reactivated by Team Rocket, but rather that it will redeem itself and be a protagonist.

    The city where Mewtwo fled too can easily be retconed into being Castelia City or whatever city this movie takes place in.
    The setting of the movie isn't Castelia City. It's a city that is based on New York City as a whole, which includes a park called "Pokémon Hills" (based on Central Park) where there are wild Pokémon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post
    The movie website defines awakening as "the act of waking up, or of snapping out of something", but then adds that it can also mean "coming to one's senses and realizing the errors of one's ways". This heavily implies that Mewtwo won't be reactivated by Team Rocket, but rather that it will redeem itself and be a protagonist.
    Do note that said definition is a straight quote from what's pretty much the Japanese equivalent of the Oxford Dictionary. It wasn't written for the site, or by anyone related to Pokemon.
    The story section of the site has a similar dictionary quote defining "shinsoku" (The "Extremespeed" in the opening, literally translates to "divine speed").

    Neither definition is necessarily implying anything, it's just what the dictionary had.

  21. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post
    The movie website defines awakening as "the act of waking up, or of snapping out of something", but then adds that it can also mean "coming to one's senses and realizing the errors of one's ways". This heavily implies that Mewtwo won't be reactivated by Team Rocket, but rather that it will redeem itself and be a protagonist.
    Could be. Either way TP and/or TR may still appear. I doubt the Genesect are evil and we don't want another snorefest like the keldeo vs Kyurem movie.

    The setting of the movie isn't Castelia City. It's a city that is based on New York City as a whole, which includes a park called "Pokémon Hills" (based on Central Park) where there are wild Pokémon.
    Close enough. Castelia is also based on New York so whatever city they chose is fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dephender View Post
    Do note that said definition is a straight quote from what's pretty much the Japanese equivalent of the Oxford Dictionary. It wasn't written for the site, or by anyone related to Pokemon.
    The story section of the site has a similar dictionary quote defining "shinsoku" (The "Extremespeed" in the opening, literally translates to "divine speed").

    Neither definition is necessarily implying anything, it's just what the dictionary had.
    Thanks for that explanation.

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  22. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Taidow_ View Post
    Could be. Either way TP and/or TR may still appear. I doubt the Genesect are evil and we don't want another snorefest like the keldeo vs Kyurem movie.
    They could be "evil" in the same sense that Mewtwo was evil in Movie 1. They're probably confused about the world surrounding them, which is completely different than the one they're used to. I think that Mewtwo showing Genesect how to learn from its own mistakes (after a grueling battle), would make for a better plot than anything involving power-hungry human antagonists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dephender
    Neither definition is necessarily implying anything, it's just what the dictionary had.
    But they made a point of including the second definition, which is the less intuitive one. I find that telling, and Yuyama's notes also support the redemption interpretation. By the way, I'd really like it if you could give a complete translation of that page.

  23. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kein View Post
    Retarded, really? "Team Rocket VS Team Plasma" is a generic title, and the fact that this isn't a two-parter and that the rest of the title pertains to Meowth and Colress should clarify that this is a new plot.
    First off, "Team Rocket VS Team Plasma" isn't a generic title since it's the title of a two-parter everyone knows got skipped. The writers wouldn't use it again if there wasn't some relation to the two-parter. Secondly, it's a new plot, yes, but that's the point of retconning the episodes. It'll be a similar plot with Genesect taking the place of the Meteonite as the central macguffin. Thirdly, we still don't know if it's not a two parter for certain. It may not be, sure, but let's wait until definitive proof from TV Guide or the TV Tokyo site schedule.

    Absolutely not. The forest overlooks some city, but Castelia is surrounded by a desert, so that alone rules it out.
    Castelia has a desert in the back of it, but an ocean in front and lots of forest to the side (which is where N was shown on the credits).

    But in any case, how do we even know N and co. go to the forest in the episode? That shot of him in the lake could be from his flashback story.

  24. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    First off, "Team Rocket VS Team Plasma" isn't a generic title since it's the title of a two-parter everyone knows got skipped.
    But it was a generic title to begin with. It's similar to there being two AG episodes called "Magma-dan VS Aqua-dan! Secret Base Battle!" and "Magma-dan VS Aqua-dan Again! Mt. Chimney Battle!!". Of course, the word "again" is missing in this case since the writers are pretending that the original two-parter didn't exist.

    The writers wouldn't use it again if there wasn't some relation to the two-parter.
    The second part of the title and the fact that this isn't a two-parter point out the differences more than anything.

    Secondly, it's a new plot, yes, but that's the point of retconning the episodes. It'll be a similar plot with Genesect taking the place of the Meteonite as the central macguffin.
    If you use that kind of loose definition of retcon, any number of things could be replaced.

    Thirdly, we still don't know if it's not a two parter for certain. It may not be, sure, but let's wait until definitive proof from TV Guide or the TV Tokyo site schedule.
    A two-parter is always announced as such to begin with. There would be two titles with "Part 1" and "Part 2".

    Castelia has a desert in the back of it, but an ocean in front and lots of forest to the side (which is where N was shown on the credits).
    You mean Pinwheel Forest? I doubt that it's the place, as it was never linked to N in the games and it doesn't have any lake. Besides, the ending shows that the city/town (the buildings are not very tall) is surrounded by greenery. It doesn't look nearly as industrial as Castelia does. Lastly, the ending also shows that N has to cross a body of water to get to the forest.

    But in any case, how do we even know N and co. go to the forest in the episode? That shot of him in the lake could be from his flashback story.
    He looks exactly the same as he does now and he is wounded. Logic dictates that he gets injured in the previous episode, which is why he has to be healed in the forest.
    Last edited by Kein; 22nd February 2013 at 5:59 AM.

  25. #275
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    That title seems more like Meowth and Colress is a side plot at the end thats gonna carry over to the finale. You combine that title with the Liepard opening scene, it really gives the impression that we are getting a retconned version, sure maybe no desert ruins and meteorites. But I'd rather have at least the mascarde party bulding scenes stay in some shape. Giovanni and Zager seem unlikely but we dont know the build up from the previous episodes like the Plasma Castelia episode or N's Secret episode. We might get something better with the TRio fighting Plasma since way back in the day Jessie only had woobat to fight them with while James had nothing. At least this way there's more of a chance of a good battle with them both having 2 pokemon now. We even have Genesect involved somehow, hopefully being captured by TR which is what starts the conflict and the aftermath leading to Meowth and Colress. All we can do now is just wait for more info.
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