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Thread: Are edited TR vs TP episodes a possibility with the new opening?

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    I hate to say it but i really can't get over the retconning/editing of the TR vs TP situation.
    The plot-hole left behind is annoying, but this is the only way we can get the episode. Dogasu, whom I usually don't care for at all, actually summed it up perfectly:

    But why even retcon them at all? Why not just air them as-is with a disclaimer telling kids that this is an episode airing out-of-order? That should be enough, right?

    The thing is...television networks never do this. Ever. Can any of you guys think of a single instance of a Japanese TV station airing an episode of a serialized children's program out of order, and then admitting it up front? How about any Western TV stations?

    You can't, because nobody does that.
    Though, I'm not entirely sure he's correct that it would have been impossible for TV Tokyo to just air it out of order and admit to it. I think the problem was with how TPCI is affected.
    Last edited by AgentPierce; 9th February 2013 at 8:56 PM.

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    The plot-hole left behind is annoying, but this is the only way we can get the episode. Dogasu, whom I usually don't care for at all, actually summed it up perfectly:



    Though, I'm not entirely sure he's correct that it would have been impossible for TV Tokyo to just air it out of order and admit to it. I think the problem was with how TPCI is affected.
    Hmm i see what he's trying to say, but i really believe if TV Tokyo (or the writers) actually made a feasable attempt at making an exception of explaining why the episodes were airing out of place it could be done. As i've said and plenty of other people have said, a preview at the beginning just simply stating where they were supposed to place (leaving out an disaster information) would have worked fine.

    Eh, we've seen what they chose to do.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    but i really believe if TV Tokyo (or the writers) actually made a feasable attempt at making an exception of explaining why the episodes were airing out of place it could be done. As i've said and plenty of other people have said, a preview at the beginning just simply stating where they were supposed to place (leaving out an disaster information) would have worked fine.
    Again, the problem is how TPCI would deal with that, since they were forced to edit the end of BW022 as a result of the episodes' postponing. If TV Tokyo suddenly aired it, disclaimer and all, then how would TPCI air it in the dub? There can't be a disclaimer, since the episodes and their postponement was never advertised at all outside of Japan. They'd just suddenly air, out of context, with Ash and friends suddenly in a helicopter that they were previously edited into not getting into. TPCI didn't want that, and thus we have this result.

  4. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    Again, the problem is how TPCI would deal with that, since they were forced to edit the end of BW022 as a result of the episodes' postponing. If TV Tokyo suddenly aired it, disclaimer and all, then how would TPCI air it in the dub? There can't be a disclaimer, since the episodes and their postponement was never advertised at all outside of Japan. They'd just suddenly air, out of context, with Ash and friends suddenly in a helicopter that they were previously edited into not getting into. TPCI didn't want that, and thus we have this result.
    As far as i'm aware, the Japanese Raw and TPCI Dub have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Unless the plan all along was to do what they're doing now, and they made an agreement with each other, the TPCI Dub did this blindly by themselves and it's their own fault which they would have to fix (which they clearly don't anyway).

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    As far as i'm aware, the Japanese Raw and TPCI Dub have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Unless the plan all along was to do what they're doing now, and they made an agreement with each other, the TPCI Dub did this blindly by themselves and it's their own fault which they would have to fix (which they clearly don't anyway).
    What the heck were they supposed to do? Kids who are unaware of the Japanese original version have no idea about TR vs. TP or the disaster that got them postponed. If the dub had aired the end of BW022 just as it was in Japan, then it'd confuse kids when suddenly the next episode has Ash at the Gym. There can't be a disclaimer like there was in Japan saying "Team Rocket vs. Team Plasma has been postponed"; because TR vs. TP was never advertised outside of Japan!

    At this point, I fully expect a reference to the end of BW022 before the retconned two-parter, stating simply that "we found nothing" (when flying over the Desert Resort). That'd work for both versions, as "we" could mean Juniper and Jenny with Ash and co. (Japan) or just Juniper and Jenny (TPCI).

  6. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    What the heck were they supposed to do? Kids who are unaware of the Japanese original version have no idea about TR vs. TP or the disaster that got them postponed. If the dub had aired the end of BW022 just as it was in Japan, then it'd confuse kids when suddenly the next episode has Ash at the Gym. There can't be a disclaimer like there was in Japan saying "Team Rocket vs. Team Plasma has been postponed"; because TR vs. TP was never advertised outside of Japan!
    I hate it when stuff like this is mentioned. Kids arn't as stupid as everybody makes them out to be. They know if episodes are missing or not. I remember when i was the young audience during the OS and i could piece things together easily (Snow Way Out being a prime example of Charmander/Charizard). The TPCI ALWAYS airs episodes out of order. I can't stress that enough.

    At this point, I fully expect a reference to the end of BW022 before the retconned two-parter, stating simply that "we found nothing" (when flying over the Desert Resort). That'd work for both versions, as "we" could mean Juniper and Jenny with Ash and co. (Japan) or just Juniper and Jenny (TPCI).
    That would work very well, hopefully they don't just fully ignore it which quite frankly i see happening.
    Last edited by Encyclopika; 10th February 2013 at 7:36 PM.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    Kids arn't as retarded as everybody makes them out to be. They know if episodes are missing or not.I remember when i was the young audience during the OS and i could piece things together easily (Snow Way Out being a prime example of Charmander/Charizard). The TPCI ALWAYS airs episodes out of order. I can't stress that enough.
    All the episodes that you mention (Snow Way Out, episodes TPCI aired out of order in the past) are stand-alone filler episodes. There's a big difference.

    And kids aren't retarded, but most kids just watch Pokemon every Saturday morning and don't partake in the online fandom or research the Japanese version. They shouldn't be expected to know about two very important but unadvertised episodes that BW022 led into being skipped over. I'm sorry, but the edit to BW022's ending was for the best.
    Last edited by AgentPierce; 9th February 2013 at 9:26 PM.

  8. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    All the episodes that you mention (Snow Way Out, episodes TPCI aired out of order in the past) are stand-alone filler episodes. There's a big difference.
    Forget Snow Way Out then, 4kids/Cartoon Network/TPCI you name it they aired practically every episode going out of order during the OS. Yes this included important episodes that weren't filler.

    It wasn't until i discovered the internet that i actually found out the order of the episodes i watched through the years. Luckily i played the games so i knew which Gym Leader battle went before which.

    Still didn't stop things as the Whirl Arc being confusing, yet i still knew the general twist of what was going on.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by fer92 View Post
    I forgot about this thread:

    Sorry, guys. Unlike Dephender (and others) said, I can almost confirm that the episodes Team Rocket VS Team Plasma are officially banned now.

    In the past episode, it's confirmed that Looker doesn't met Iris and Cilan before and that anyone except from Looker didn't know Team Plasma are having activities in Unova until last episode. That means only one thing: the episodes are oficially banned from the scheduled now.

    And the new Team Rocket vs Team Plasma episodes will be too diferent from the original ones because:
    -Team Rocket aren't the level of seriousness that have been in BW. It's going to be more funny each episode it passes. Specially with Wobbuffet back.
    -Looker is going to be sided with Team Rocket like the opening says unlike stopping the TR vs TP showdown.
    -Team Plasma will appear with the BW2 uniforms.
    -Ghetsis, Colress and specially N are going to appear in the retconned big Plasma episodes.
    -Pierce and Zager won't re-appear again (specially the former). And Giovanni is by no any means confirmed to appear.
    -The Meteonite isn't going to have a big part again.
    -And now the Team Rocket mission is going to be catching Ash's Pikachu.

    Sorry, guys. Now I can confirmed that the Team Plasma vs Team Rocket episodes that are supposed to air on 17th and 24th March of 2011 are now banned episodes.

    Sorry, but an Earthquake that caused 10000-20000 deaths, the second worst nuclear disaster in the history, >1000000 of people without houses, where the electricity has to be cut in the Kanto (real-life) area, and caused an drop of Japan GDP in 2011 were more important that the negative effects that the postponed (now banned) episodes has in the Pokemon franchise. They intented to air later but the disaster was toobig to air the episodes now.

    *The big problem witht his epoisodes is that they're suppoosed on March 17th and 24th of 2011. Nintendo/TV Tokyo/Shopro/OLM don't want compleining of Tohoku people.
    The only reason they didn't air those episodes is because of a scene in which we saw a lot of destruction in Castelia City which somehow reminded them of the earthquake. With that scene gone there is no reason not to air the episodes.

    Also what makes you think Zager will never appear again? There is no conformation on that

  10. #110
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    I think they will air... unedited. No retcons, no plot changes, no character omissions, the original thing will air, with tepig, krokorok, flint, and the original plot, with ash about to get his third unova gym badge.

    They will probably be aired as flashback episodes just before the episode N climax. This would make for a nice ratings boost for the climax itself when it airs.

  11. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by cauldronmaster View Post
    I think they will air... unedited. No retcons, no plot changes, no character omissions, the original thing will air, with tepig, krokorok, flint, and the original plot, with ash about to get his third unova gym badge.

    They will probably be aired as flashback episodes just before the episode N climax. This would make for a nice ratings boost for the climax itself when it airs.
    Ahahah. These episodes would get higher ratings than the climax itself. Besides if Pierce doesn't reappear in any shape, then there's no sense to air them.

  12. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdant View Post
    With that scene gone there is no reason not to air the episodes.
    Quote Originally Posted by cauldronmaster View Post
    I think they will air... unedited. No retcons, no plot changes, no character omissions, the original thing will air, with tepig, krokorok, flint, and the original plot, with ash about to get his third unova gym badge.
    Incorrect. Looker has officially only just met Iris and Cilan as of BWS2EN - 4.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by cauldronmaster View Post
    I think they will air... unedited. No retcons, no plot changes, no character omissions, the original thing will air, with tepig, krokorok, flint, and the original plot, with ash about to get his third unova gym badge.
    Aside from the most recent episode cancelling that theory out entirely, what would be the point of the Neo-Plasma Grunts with Liepard in the opening then?

    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    Incorrect. Looker has officially only just met Iris and Cilan as of BWS2EN - 4.
    And both Ash and co. and the TRio haven't heard of Team Plasma until Looker talks about them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightstar1994 View Post
    Besides if Pierce doesn't reappear in any shape, then there's no sense to air them.
    If Giovanni could just suddenly return after being last seen in BW022 for Operation Tempest, Pierce can for the retconned two-parter.
    Last edited by AgentPierce; 10th February 2013 at 6:15 PM.

  14. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    And both Ash and co. and the TRio haven't heard of Team Plasma until Looker talks about them.
    Very true, I forgot about that.

    ---

    It's a shame everybody still expects to see these episodes at least retconned. There are so many features/aspects that would need to be edited/estabalished in the current anime episodes.

    Established Points:

    -Giovanni being in Unova.
    -Pierce's absence/reason for returning.
    -The Resort Desert emitting crazy signals.
    -The Meteonite.
    -Junipers return.

    Edited Points:


    -Team Plasma -> Neo Team Plasma.
    -Ash's current party during BW022-25 being turned into his current team as of Episode N.
    -Any introduction from Looker to Iris and Cilan being removed.
    -Team Rocket's Clothing.

    ---

    Eh, there's probably a tonne more I just can't think off the top of my head.

  15. #115
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    I wouldn't mind Ash and TR and looker breaking into the Genesect lab in Castelia city, then 5 lucky pokemon can all get a mega win. The most deserving are in order

    Charizard
    Pignite
    Krookodile
    Amoongus
    Dragonite
    Crustle
    Palpitoad
    I Cbfd to go on.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    -Giovanni being in Unova.
    -Pierce's absence/reason for returning.
    Neither of which necessarily have to be explained. Again, Giovanni returned to Unova before with no reason given for his absence.

    -The Resort Desert emitting crazy signals.
    -The Meteonite.
    -Junipers return.
    The bottom two can be explained prior to the two-parter, and the first doesn't need to happen again, as it'd start up while Ash, Juniper and the others are in the Desert Resort anyway.

    -Team Plasma -> Neo Team Plasma.
    -Ash's current party during BW022-25 being turned into his current team as of Episode N.
    -Any introduction from Looker to Iris and Cilan being removed.
    -Team Rocket's Clothing.
    The first is a given, and there's been more than enough time for it to be made so.
    The second may not be an issue; he may have not ever used any Pokemon but Pikachu in the episodes.
    The third is easily cut, and the fourth is also easily managed through digital painting.

  17. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    Neither of which necessarily have to be explained. Again, Giovanni returned to Unova before with no reason given for his absence.
    I can agree with Giovanni to an extent, although his last appearance made it much more prominent that he was done with Unova now. So something would have to explain such a special occasion.

    Pierce on the other hand, the fact he's been gone for so long with no explainable absence makes it difficult to make his return look normal. Giovanni we know was busy under unknown circustances, but Pierce, no mention has been made since his last appearance.

    The bottom two can be explained prior to the two-parter, and the first doesn't need to happen again, as it'd start up while Ash, Juniper and the others are in the Desert Resort anyway.
    Ah very true, the latter however would need to be explained in the episode prior why they are travelling there again.

    The first is a given, and there's been more than enough time for it to be made so.
    The second may not be an issue; he may have not ever used any Pokemon but Pikachu in the episodes.
    The third is easily cut, and the fourth is also easily managed through digital painting.
    True, true.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    What the heck were they supposed to do? Kids who are unaware of the Japanese original version have no idea about TR vs. TP or the disaster that got them postponed. If the dub had aired the end of BW022 just as it was in Japan, then it'd confuse kids when suddenly the next episode has Ash at the Gym. There can't be a disclaimer like there was in Japan saying "Team Rocket vs. Team Plasma has been postponed"; because TR vs. TP was never advertised outside of Japan!

    At this point, I fully expect a reference to the end of BW022 before the retconned two-parter, stating simply that "we found nothing" (when flying over the Desert Resort). That'd work for both versions, as "we" could mean Juniper and Jenny with Ash and co. (Japan) or just Juniper and Jenny (TPCI).
    This is one of the VERY few times I agree with an action TPCi has taken with respect to the anime. It was honestly a wise move on their part.
    Opinions Regarding the Pokémon:
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    4. Games: XY > BW1 > BW2 > RSE > GSC > Y > HGSS > DP > RBG
    5. Pokémon: The Origin: Excellent: 93/100.
    6. Manga: RS > RB > Y > FRLG > XY > BW > E > DP > GSC
    "It's like with each new Generation, Dogasu becomes an even bigger idiot than he was the last Generation." - Kalos Adventurer

  19. #119
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    Fer92 trying to accuse someone of acting like they know everything....wow. The hypocrisy is staggering.

    I never pretend to know everything, I only base assumptions on any facts that I have to go by. That's more than I can say for you, Fer92.

    Quote Originally Posted by fer92 View Post
    Ash's Charizard has to not appear before the episodes.
    Er, why not? Ash can very well get Charizard before the two-parter and just not use it in the episodes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    Pierce on the other hand, the fact he's been gone for so long with no explainable absence makes it difficult to make his return look normal. Giovanni we know was busy under unknown circustances, but Pierce, no mention has been made since his last appearance.
    Seeing as he first appears in the episodes standing along with the TRio, Zager, and an army of Grunts, it could just be left to assume he came with the Grunts.
    Last edited by AgentPierce; 10th February 2013 at 11:40 PM.

  20. #120
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    For starters, there's confirmed a Plasma plot on Castelia City who will likely take more than 1 episode where Team Rocket will appear. And that will have plots for the Castelia Sewers and Genesect (eehhh, Gene) But not nothing more apart from that.

    If the skipped would pseudo-air*, it will be:
    -Without sensitive scenes.
    -Team Rocket TRio don't have the Meteonite, if anything, other TR members will.
    -Team Rocket Trio being white and Team Plasma being with different uniforms. (TR is easy but TP).
    -Colress and N will appear.
    -Evolved pokemon or unexisted pokemon in BW23-24 timeline will appear. Ex: Iris' Dragonite.
    -The Meowth ballon will appear, the motto will change and the TRio will blast off in the end.

    Those episodes aren't going to be the original episodes, but a heavily modified version o this episode because the writers needed a lot of $$$$ to make the episode. And for the fan complaints.

    EDIT: When I edited the post, I edited to evade a banning but I won't update a post that's is a few days old with new information.
    Last edited by Eievui-Nymphia; 21st February 2013 at 4:01 PM. Reason: I delted the opinion of what could happen to the Plasma storyline because it causes issues on the forum.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by fer92 View Post
    For starters, there's confirmed a Plasma plot on Castelia City who will likely take more than 1 episode where Team Rocket will appear. And that will have plots for the Castelia Sewers and Genesect (eehhh, Gene) But not nothing more apart from that.

    If the skipped would pseudo-air*, it will be:
    -Without sensitive scenes.
    -Team Rocket TRio don't have the Meteonite, if anything, other TR members will.
    -Team Rocket Trio being white and Team Plasma being with different uniforms. (TR is easy but TP).
    -Colress and N will appear.
    -Evolved pokemon or unexisted pokemon in BW23-24 timeline will appear. Ex: Iris' Dragonite.
    -The Meowth ballon will appear, the motto will change and the TRio will blast off in the end.

    Those episodes aren't going to be the original episodes, but a heavily modified version o this episode because the writers needed a lot of $$$$ to make the episode. And for the fan complaints.

    ===================================
    I think that this is what could happen tot the Plasma storyline:
    -Initial plan: airing the old 2-partner but not have a Plasma appearance until Nimbasa (1 episode) and not have the climax at least until Chargestone Cave,
    -When the earthquake happened. Banned temporarily all Plasma appearances and Liepard.
    -Months later. They unbanned Plasma and Liepard for having future appareances. But they discover B2W2. TP don't make a debut until the first episodes of whose later become Season 2.
    -Discover that Meloetta can't have a movie for herself and need to appear in the main anime. Plasma appearence delayed until after the League. *
    Final result, Episode N.

    *When they know that Meloetta don't have an appareance in a movie they decided to have the Meloetta arc in the anime. Because the anime want to promote the PWT and older characters in it, they brought Cynthia. And only after they brought Cynthia, they brought Dawn at the last minute.**

    **I saw a settei of one of the Junior Cup where Dawn has er Dp nartwork while everything else has their BW artwork. For this reason is why Dawn doesn't have a new outfit in Season 2. And when I say last minute, it's very late before we enter in a irreversible part of production.
    You have no proof for anything you say. Where is your proof that they will be nothing like the original episodes? Where is your proof that N and Colress will appear. No one is going to take you seriously unless you give us proof.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by fer92 View Post
    For starters, there's confirmed a Plasma plot on Castelia City who will likely take more than 1 episode where Team Rocket will appear
    No, there's a confirmed Plasma plot in the Castelia sewers. There is no confirmation it takes more than 1 episode or that Team Rocket appears.

    -Without sensitive scenes.
    By now, the "sensitive scenes" would be OK to air.

    Team Rocket TRio don't have the Meteonite, if anything, other TR members will.
    What are you talking about? They get the Meteonite in the first episode of the two-parter, of course they wouldn't already have it.

    Team Rocket Trio being white and Team Plasma being with different uniforms. (TR is easy but TP).
    Yeah, no prize there. That's a given at this point. And there's been more than enough time to reanimate the TP grunts.

    Colress and N will appear.
    Evolved pokemon or unexisted pokemon in BW23-24 timeline will appear. Ex: Iris' Dragonite.
    Why? There is no rule that Colress and N have to be in every Plasma-related episode, and no rule that Pokemon not existing during BW23-24's timeframe have to be used now. Iris doesn't use Dragonite in every episode, why would she have to do so here? For all we know, no Pokemon was ever used in those episodes but Pikachu!

    The Meowth ballon will appear, the motto will change and the TRio will blast off in the end.
    The second two are sadly possible, but the Meowth balloon doesn't need to appear at all. It doesn't seem to be showing up in this week's episode.

    Those episodes aren't going to be the original episodes, but a heavily modified version of this episode
    Of course they won't be the original episodes, the original episodes are an impossibility now. But the modifications need not be as heavy as you seem to believe.

    Initial plan: airing the old 2-partner but not have a Plasma appearance until Nimbasa (1 episode) and not have the climax at least until Chargestone Cave,
    When the earthquake happened. Banned temporarily all Plasma appearances and Liepard.
    Months later. They unbanned Plasma and Liepard for having future appareances. But they discover B2W2. TP don't make a debut until the first episodes of whose later become Season 2.
    Discover that Meloetta can't have a movie for herself and need to appear in the main anime. Plasma appearence delayed until after the League.
    Final result, Episode N.
    And you found these assumptions on what exactly?

    All the episodes up to Nimbasa were already in production when the 2-parter was postponed, and the episodes up to Twist Mountain were being planned and written already at that time as well. That's how the show's production works. So Team Plasma was never going to show up again until at least Iccirus City even before the 2-parter was postponed. B2W2 began production around this time as well, they may have "discovered it" well before the earthquake hit and were starting plans based around it. There was nothing preventing Meloetta from being the star of the movie, the Meloetta arc wasn't added in because of movie restrictions. Finally, Team Plasma was never banned. Period. Deal with it already.

    And those, Fer92, are not assumptions. They are the facts.
    Last edited by AgentPierce; 11th February 2013 at 10:07 PM.

  23. #123
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    Now that we know the last 3 episodes of Episode N and only 3 we dont know about in between that and the Charizard episode is there a chance of the TR VS TP altered/edited airing or will it just be N episode exposition?
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  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venusaur Master View Post
    Now that we know the last 3 episodes of Episode N and only 3 we dont know about in between that and the Charizard episode is there a chance of the TR VS TP altered/edited airing or will it just be N episode exposition?
    We know the one following the Charizard now....it's Team Plasma in Castelia City/Sewers (notice Dragonite's red eyes).

    There's most definately the possibility for TR vs TP on either or both of the other two March dates.

  25. #125
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    Is there a chance that is the Charizard one cause of the Charizard vs Dragonite title?
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