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Thread: Did Cyrus die?

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    Default Did Cyrus die?

    It was a debate that got started on a completely different thread and I was wondering what you all thought did he die or is he trapped in another dimension.

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    Once again, I post this thoroguh explanation:

    The so-called New World closes up and disappears as if it never was. Cyrus is gone - more dead than it is possible to be as he is wiped out of all existence. It's explicitly stated that the energy of their world/universe is being sucked into the "new" world, which is expanding to eventually replace the current one (as in, it will take up the space that the current universe is inhabiting). When Dialga and Palkia's chains are broken, the energy stops pumping into the world which immediately begins to shrink back down into eventual non-existence. Cyrus leaped inside to be part of his "new" Universe, but there is no longer any energy being pumped into it and the two universes cannot occupy the same space. So the current universe reaffirms its place and the new one ceases to exist (with Cyrus inside of it) - Cyrus is dead and gone. He didn't "win", he didn't summon Dialga and Palkia to make some pre-existing universe available to him, they were creating a brand new universe for him. The only reason we see fully formed galaxies etc inside of it is an artistic choice because showing a super-dense singularity of utter mass encapsulated into an atom wouldn't get across to the viewer that the new universe was coming. If Cyrus just wanted to open a portal to go into some other lifeless universe and rule over it as a God, then it would have removed all the danger/high stakes of the entire storyline, which was that by necessity the creation of the new world would destroy the old world and everyone and everything in it. The very fact that the old world still exists in the show proves that the new world never came into being, and Cyrus effectively jumped into oblivion. He was the architect of his own destruction, a total madman who would have wiped out reality to recreate it in his own image/vision, and he got so wrapped up in his delusions that it cost him his life. There is no maybe about this, he ceased to exist, his new universe ceased to exist. Cyrus is dead. He's a done Tom Turkey. He is no more.

    This. Is an Ex. Cyrus.
    In the show, it is never stated that a portal to the new world was being created; it says that the new world itself was being created right there and then. It may have looked like a portal design-wise, but it wasn't: it was the actual new world that was going to get bigger and expand outward, swallowing up the old world and taking it's space. No portal got closed when Cyrus jumped in, the whole thing just collapsed in on itself and then (most people seem to forget this) gets completely blown up by Dialga and Palkia. So yeah, he's dead.

    Please note that I am not defending this decision. I actually hate that he died because it was completely needless, pointlessly cruel, and horrendously OOC for Cyrus and everyone else in the scene (especially Cynthia), but I can't deny the facts. And the facts are that Cyrus did not go through a portal; he did not go anywhere except to his own grave.
    Last edited by AgentPierce; 29th January 2013 at 8:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    Once again, I post this thoroguh explanation:



    In the show, it is never stated that a portal to the new world was being created; it says that the new world itself was being created right there and then. It may have looked like a portal design-wise, but it wasn't: it was the actual new world that was going to get bigger and expand outward, swallowing up the old world and taking it's space. No portal got closed when Cyrus jumped in, the whole thing just collapsed in on itself and then (most people seem to forget this) gets completely blown up by Dialga and Palkia. So yeah, he's dead.

    Please note that I am not defending this decision. I actually hate that he died because it was completely needless, pointlessly cruel, and horrendously OOC for Cyrus and everyone else in the scene (especially Cynthia), but I can't deny the facts. And the facts are that Cyrus did not go through a portal; he did not go anywhere except to his own grave.
    We don't know what happen yes he wanted to wipe out the current world for a new one. and yes he was stopped but for all we know he may have created a small alternate universe (most likely nothing in it but a alternate universe none the less) by mistake this may not have been what he planed on doing but it could still be what happen an now he trapped there.

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    This question should be made in the Anime Discussion section, not in the Anime Spoilers.

    Anyway, we don't know for sure and we will never know what happened to Cyrus. Space and time are a very complicated matter and we still don't know how alternate dimensions work. For what we know, Cyrus and his dimension could have been compressed to the point that they have become a new kind of matter, like for example supersolids.

    By real world logic, he would have really low chances of survival, but remember... this is the same world where humans can be burned and electrocuted without suffering fatal damage. Even the Universe laws could be different compared to ours and if the writers decide to bring Cyrus back, then so be it. To the anime context, his return could make somewhat sense.

    The finale is open to interpretation. It's up to us to decide if he's dead or alive. It's made in that way purposely.
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    Being burned and electrocuted is done for comic effect.

    Being sent to a universe that is being destroyed and eventually blows up is not. Cyrus has effectively ceased to exist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spin Attaxx View Post
    Being burned and electrocuted is done for comic effect.

    Being sent to a universe that is being destroyed and eventually blows up is not. Cyrus has effectively ceased to exist.
    Believe what you want to believe. If he's dead for you ok. He's dead.

    We don't know how matter works. The new universe could have easily become one of the infinite parallel universes of the reality, with its own laws. But that's a bit too scientific, I doubt they wanted to delve so deep into that mysterious argument.

    To everybody his own interpretation, I guess.
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    He was in a different universe. That universe was blown up. And I'm pretty sure that every universe follows the same law of "if something is blown up, everything and everyone in/near it is destroyed".

    I do not see how anyone could POSSIBLY survive that.
    Shokotan: "And then, in Extremespeed Genesect: The Awakening of Mewtwo, we meet another Mewtwo!"
    Yuyama: "Yes, I thought it'd be better if it was a different Mewtwo."
    Good for you Yuyama. Too bad you've singlehandedly torpedoed any lingering respect I and anyone else had for you.

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    I suggest you to recheck the finale. Dialga and Palkia altered the balance of the new universe, which was shrinking, and said action resulted in either a black hole or a wormhole.



    Let's look at black hole:

    "A black hole is a region of spacetime from which gravity prevents anything, including light, from escaping. The theory of general relativity predicts that a sufficiently compact mass will deform spacetime to form a black hole. Black holes of stellar mass are expected to form when very massive stars collapse at the end of their life cycle. After a black hole has formed it can continue to grow by absorbing mass from its surroundings. There is general consensus that supermassive black holes exist in the centers of most galaxies."

    So if that's indeed a black hole, it could have formed a new galaxy somewhere. And black holes are usually connected to wormholes:

    "A wormhole is a hypothetical topological feature of spacetime that would be, fundamentally, a "shortcut" through spacetime. A wormhole is, in theory, much like a tunnel with two ends each in separate points in spacetime."

    So basically that could have happened:

    Black hole > space and time are distorted > wormhole > Cyrus is transported in another space and another time

    If he's unlucky, he may have ended in space and died for lack of oxygen. But if he was teleported in a habitable planet he could have survived. Alone, but survived.

    But that's a very complex matter and open to whatever theory. Let's just agree to disagree.
    Last edited by Cresselia92; 29th January 2013 at 10:54 PM.
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    If it was a black hole he would have most likely been torn to pieces anyway.

    Unless he has Team Rocket logic. Or anime logic.


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  10. #10

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    If he did go to a different universe, there's a very large chance that he was sent there as goo. And again, it looks like a portal, but it isn't. Let me quote the post you seem to have missed:

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    Once again, I post this thoroguh explanation:

    The so-called New World closes up and disappears as if it never was. Cyrus is gone - more dead than it is possible to be as he is wiped out of all existence. It's explicitly stated that the energy of their world/universe is being sucked into the "new" world, which is expanding to eventually replace the current one (as in, it will take up the space that the current universe is inhabiting). When Dialga and Palkia's chains are broken, the energy stops pumping into the world which immediately begins to shrink back down into eventual non-existence. Cyrus leaped inside to be part of his "new" Universe, but there is no longer any energy being pumped into it and the two universes cannot occupy the same space. So the current universe reaffirms its place and the new one ceases to exist (with Cyrus inside of it) - Cyrus is dead and gone. He didn't "win", he didn't summon Dialga and Palkia to make some pre-existing universe available to him, they were creating a brand new universe for him. The only reason we see fully formed galaxies etc inside of it is an artistic choice because showing a super-dense singularity of utter mass encapsulated into an atom wouldn't get across to the viewer that the new universe was coming. If Cyrus just wanted to open a portal to go into some other lifeless universe and rule over it as a God, then it would have removed all the danger/high stakes of the entire storyline, which was that by necessity the creation of the new world would destroy the old world and everyone and everything in it. The very fact that the old world still exists in the show proves that the new world never came into being, and Cyrus effectively jumped into oblivion. He was the architect of his own destruction, a total madman who would have wiped out reality to recreate it in his own image/vision, and he got so wrapped up in his delusions that it cost him his life. There is no maybe about this, he ceased to exist, his new universe ceased to exist. Cyrus is dead. He's a done Tom Turkey. He is no more.

    This. Is an Ex. Cyrus.
    In the show, it is never stated that a portal to the new world was being created; it says that the new world itself was being created right there and then. It may have looked like a portal design-wise, but it wasn't: it was the actual new world that was going to get bigger and expand outward, swallowing up the old world and taking it's space. No portal got closed when Cyrus jumped in, the whole thing just collapsed in on itself and then (most people seem to forget this) gets completely blown up by Dialga and Palkia. So yeah, he's dead.

    Please note that I am not defending this decision. I actually hate that he died because it was completely needless, pointlessly cruel, and horrendously OOC for Cyrus and everyone else in the scene (especially Cynthia), but I can't deny the facts. And the facts are that Cyrus did not go through a portal; he did not go anywhere except to his own grave.

    And seeing how Cyrus is now irrelevant to the series (unless Gen IV remakes are made somewhere down the pipe), we can consider him dead.
    Shokotan: "And then, in Extremespeed Genesect: The Awakening of Mewtwo, we meet another Mewtwo!"
    Yuyama: "Yes, I thought it'd be better if it was a different Mewtwo."
    Good for you Yuyama. Too bad you've singlehandedly torpedoed any lingering respect I and anyone else had for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 00poke_maniac View Post
    If it was a black hole he would have most likely been torn to pieces anyway.

    Unless he has Team Rocket logic. Or anime logic.
    Black holes don't tear in pieces. They stretch matter (like a chewing gum), creating an effect similar to spaghetti. That can be deadly, especially if a wormhole isn't formed before the completion of the black hole.

    ...gosh, we're talking about physics here, in a show for kids.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    Black holes don't tear in pieces. They stretch matter (like a chewing gum), creating an effect similar to spaghetti. That can be deadly, especially if a wormhole isn't formed before the completion of the black hole.

    ...gosh, we're talking about physics here, in a show for kids.

    It's better to end this story. We will never end. Believe what you want to believe.
    If he didn't die or wasn't going to die, then why was Mars so upset?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemaniac24 View Post
    If he didn't die or wasn't going to die, then why was Mars so upset?
    Because nobody can know for sure what happens in a black hole. "Playing" with the laws of Nature it's like throwing dices: you never know what will happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemaniac24 View Post
    If he didn't die or wasn't going to die, then why was Mars so upset?
    Uh who do you think pays her salary?

    If my boss fell in a black hole I'd be sad for my finances regardless of ow nice or cruel of a guy he is. Plus if he suddenly said hey I'm gonna go to another dimension for possibly forever I'd still fear for my expenses lol.
    Last edited by LizardonX; 29th January 2013 at 11:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    Black holes don't tear in pieces. They stretch matter (like a chewing gum), creating an effect similar to spaghetti. That can be deadly, especially if a wormhole isn't formed before the completion of the black hole.

    ...gosh, we're talking about physics here, in a show for kids.

    It's better to end this story. We will never end. Believe what you want to believe.

    You can only stretch so much. =P

    But I never had a physics class yet. XD Though isn't like after you get stretched you get burned?


    Maybe he got turned into jelly. :P (if you've ever seen Steins;Gate)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    Because nobody can know for sure what happens in a black hole. "Playing" with the laws of Nature it's like throwing dices: you never know what will happen.
    I think that was the writers' way of letting us know Cyrus did essentially commit suicide. Well, like you said, we could believe what we want to believe. I'm glad Cyrus did what he did because that ended one of the most boring villain finales in the Pokémon anime. Part 1 and Part 2 were good. Part 3 was a BORE.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    Uh who do you think pays her salary?

    If my boss fell in a black hole I'd be sad for my finances regardless of ow nice or cruel of a guy he is. Plus if he suddenly said hey I'm gonna go to another dimension for possibly forever I'd still fear for my expenses lol.
    She should have known she was going to jail though.
    Last edited by Pokemaniac24; 29th January 2013 at 11:08 PM.

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    Even if he isn't dead he may as well be, don't think he'll appear again!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattySadler View Post
    Even if he isn't dead he may as well be, don't think he'll appear again!
    Unless they make the DPPt remakes for a future console, with a Cyrus's subplot. XD

    But yeah, I don't see him reappearing in the anime. He's gone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    Unless they make the DPPt remakes with a Cyrus subplot. XD

    But yeah, I don't see him reappearing in the anime. He's gone.
    I hope not. I thought he was for the most part a very forgettable villain in the anime. I don't really remember much of him except for when he acted insane for when TRio threatened to destroy the orbs and then of course when he jumped into the new world and shouted, "MINE ALONE!" Otherwise, he wasn't nearly as good as say Giovanni and I'm hoping Ghetsis will be an improvement as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemaniac24 View Post
    If he didn't die or wasn't going to die, then why was Mars so upset?
    She'd never see him again killed or not. Plus, is it me or did it look like Mars had a thing for Cyrus?

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    She'd never see him again killed or not. Plus, is it me or did it look like Mars had a thing for Cyrus?
    I don't know. TG was so underdeveloped in the anime that it's hard to tell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemaniac24 View Post
    I don't know. TG was so underdeveloped in the anime that it's hard to tell.
    I thought that TG was done very well they were menacing and mysterious and long with hunter J were some the best villains in the anime unlike team magma and aqua they were done just awful in anime such a waste.
    another reason I why think the DP arc writing was so good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdgjordan View Post
    I thought that TG was done very well they were menacing and mysterious and long with hunter J were some the best villains in the anime unlike team magma and aqua they were done just awful in anime such a wast.
    another reason I why think the DP arc writing was so good.
    They were entertaining but I found them extremely underwhelming compared to BW TR. I feel that their lack of appearances really hurt them. In addition to that, they were really underdeveloped and not very complex like they were in the games or the manga. I also felt like they lacked variety in their missions and only a few of their episodes stand out. Their pacing was also poor compared to BW TR. I like TG as villains. They were entertaining enough for the anime but I feel like BW TR really makes them pale in comparison. My opinion of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemaniac24 View Post
    They were entertaining but I found them extremely underwhelming compared to BW TR. I feel that their lack of appearances really hurt them. In addition to that, they were really underdeveloped and not very complex like they were in the games or the manga. I also felt like they lacked variety in their missions and only a few of their episodes stand out. Their pacing was also poor compared to BW TR. I like TG as villains. They were entertaining enough for the anime but I feel like BW TR really makes them pale in comparison. My opinion of course.
    No I agree BW TR were the best the show as seen no argument here they were awesome but I still thought TG was good and did well in what they were meant to come across as an mysterious and evil organization that wants to destroy the world for a new one unlike team magam and team aqua heck the anime never even said what they were going to do with the legendary's they were trying to get so unless you played the games you had no idea what there goal was they were just there to be there to sale the games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdgjordan View Post
    No I agree BW TR were the best the show as seen no argument here they were awesome but I still thought TG was good and did well in what they were meant to come across as an mysterious and evil organization that wants to destroy the world for a new one unlike team magam and team aqua heck the anime never even said what they were going to do with the legendary's they were trying to get so unless you played the games you had no idea what there goal was they were just there to be there to sale the games.
    Yeah, I definitely agree with you. It's not even that J and TG being underdeveloped was a problem for the anime since most villains aren't that developed in this show. J and TG were really good villains. I wish they showed up more.

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