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Thread: Why do people bash Ash?

  1. #1
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    Default Why do people bash Ash?

    Ok hear me out on this. No bashing or trolling or any of that. I am curious to know why people say Ash sucks. Even in BW where he seemed to regress at the start he still has skills in battle. The kid has pulled of some awesome moves in the middle of a battle,beat legendaries and saved the world over ten times. Now I know he never wins the league and idk if it is the writers saying something to us but I keep seeing people say he sucks and she be replaced. (Which if you think about it would be silly since they would do the same thing with a new person. So without making this a war discuss.

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    He should be far less stupid than he acts. At least in the last series Ash could be called many things but "stupid","retarded", and "mentally challenged" were not applicable. Now in best wishes he just regressed too much. That is why he is being bashed so much. Overusing 2 base form starters for over 100 eps does him no favors
    Last edited by LizardonX; 11th February 2013 at 12:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    He should be far less stupid than he acts. At least in the last series Ash could be called many things but "stupid","retarded", and "mentally challenged" were not applicable. Now in best wishes he just regressed too much.

    I did find it odd how he went from like skilled and a teen (yes I believe he was like 16 in DP and BW just regressed him in not just skill but age) I do think he seems better latter BW compared to the early bit

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    Here goes:
    - He's regressed way too much in the BW Saga.
    - He's stale, boring, and repetitive.
    - He's still 10 years old after 15 years.
    - The writers are disgracing his character by not allowing me to progress at this point.
    - He has now regressed in rank at a League.
    - He scans Pokemon he has seen numerous times over and over again.
    - He never wins regional Pokemon Leagues.
    - There is no such thing as being a Pokemon Master, because his happiness is to lose every 3-4 years, acts as if nothing happened, and reset!
    - He sucks the life from different 10 year old girls in order to maintain his youthfulness. XD.
    - His dub voice is unbearable to listen to for me in late BF until the end of DP. It's too deep, and does not sound like a 10 year old boy.
    It's been unbearable for many dub fans since the start of BF (you'll know why).
    - He has not gotten much further in his goal than when he started his journey.
    - His Pikachu can beat a Dragonite, a Regice, and tie with a Latios, but can lose to an Eevee, Elekid, and a Lvl. 5 Snivy.
    - He's no longer a likeable or somewhat genuine character. He's become a marketing tool.
    - He's too stupid these days.

    ...Need I say more?...

    Honestly, I think it's less Ash, and the fact that the older characters have been milked dry at this point. It's time for a change.

    The writers need to either 1) bring all of the older characters back for a final, huge arc, where they all reach their goals, or 2) start off with a clean slate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kokatsu View Post
    I did find it odd how he went from like skilled and a teen (yes I believe he was like 16 in DP and BW just regressed him in not just skill but age) I do think he seems better latter BW compared to the early bit
    He's always been 10. That's never changed. The narrator only confirmed it in BW001.

    The movie 3 short and Battle of the Badge dub statements were errors made by 4Kids (Battle of the Badge) and TPC JPN (movie 3 short Birthday), respectively.

    None of the characters are any older than when they started out in Kanto. That's also why I still feel many of TPCi's dub voices do not fit the characters.
    Last edited by PokemonNation2000; 11th February 2013 at 1:04 AM.
    Opinions Regarding the Pokémon:
    1. Anime: OS > AG > BW > DP > XY
    2. Movies: OS = AG > DP = BW = XY
    3. English Dub: 4Kids Entertainment/TAJ Productions (EP001-EP276; AG001-AG020) = 4Kids Entertainment (AG021-AG145) = TPCi/SDI Media (The Origin)/Very Good > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (BW)/Poor > PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions (AG146-AG192)/Very Poor > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (XY) = PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions/DuArt Film & Video (DP)/Atrocious
    4. Games: XY > BW1 > BW2 > RSE > GSC > Y > HGSS > DP > RBG
    5. Pokémon: The Origin: Excellent: 93/100.
    6. Manga: RS > RB > Y > FRLG > XY > BW > E > DP > GSC
    "It's like with each new Generation, Dogasu becomes an even bigger idiot than he was the last Generation." - Kalos Adventurer

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    BW regression, stale, boring, looking up pokes on the pokedex that he's already viewed plenty of times before, BW League , oblivious to love, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angel~ View Post
    BW regression, stale, boring, looking up pokes on the pokedex that he's already viewed plenty of times before, BW League , oblivious to love, etc.
    That's a good one. I forgot how oblivious he's been to love all this time.
    Opinions Regarding the Pokémon:
    1. Anime: OS > AG > BW > DP > XY
    2. Movies: OS = AG > DP = BW = XY
    3. English Dub: 4Kids Entertainment/TAJ Productions (EP001-EP276; AG001-AG020) = 4Kids Entertainment (AG021-AG145) = TPCi/SDI Media (The Origin)/Very Good > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (BW)/Poor > PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions (AG146-AG192)/Very Poor > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (XY) = PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions/DuArt Film & Video (DP)/Atrocious
    4. Games: XY > BW1 > BW2 > RSE > GSC > Y > HGSS > DP > RBG
    5. Pokémon: The Origin: Excellent: 93/100.
    6. Manga: RS > RB > Y > FRLG > XY > BW > E > DP > GSC
    "It's like with each new Generation, Dogasu becomes an even bigger idiot than he was the last Generation." - Kalos Adventurer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwail8023 View Post
    - He scans Pokemon he has seen numerous times over and over again.
    - His Pikachu can beat a Dragonite, a Regice, and tie with a Latios, but can lose to an Eevee, Elekid, and a Lvl. 5 Snivy.
    I think this is due more for the new people watching or people that forget.

    When you say Eevee do you mean Gary's Eevee? If so I think that could be justified with the whole he could of been trained a long time Paul's Elekid too. However I totally agree with Snivy who was obviously not trained prior to the battle. Ash not winning leagues is something I never got. He saves the world and has done well against legends so a league should be easy. He pretty much almost won Sinnoh but than Tobias came XD.

    As for obvious to love aren't most shonen heroes? lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokatsu View Post
    I think this is due more for the new people watching or people that forget.

    When you say Eevee do you mean Gary's Eevee? If so I think that could be justified with the whole he could of been trained a long time Paul's Elekid too. However I totally agree with Snivy who was obviously not trained prior to the battle. Ash not winning leagues is something I never got. He saves the world and has done well against legends so a league should be easy. He pretty much almost won Sinnoh but than Tobias came XD.

    As for obvious to love aren't most shonen heroes? lol
    Fair enough. Trollbias was the worst part of the Sinnoh League. XD.

    I think most older fans are frustrated with what the older characters have been turned into. How their voices have changed so dramatically as far as the English dub goes, their personalities so drastically altered, and not in a good way to them. I guess I fall into that category myself. It's painful to watch.
    Last edited by PokemonNation2000; 11th February 2013 at 1:09 AM.
    Opinions Regarding the Pokémon:
    1. Anime: OS > AG > BW > DP > XY
    2. Movies: OS = AG > DP = BW = XY
    3. English Dub: 4Kids Entertainment/TAJ Productions (EP001-EP276; AG001-AG020) = 4Kids Entertainment (AG021-AG145) = TPCi/SDI Media (The Origin)/Very Good > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (BW)/Poor > PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions (AG146-AG192)/Very Poor > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (XY) = PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions/DuArt Film & Video (DP)/Atrocious
    4. Games: XY > BW1 > BW2 > RSE > GSC > Y > HGSS > DP > RBG
    5. Pokémon: The Origin: Excellent: 93/100.
    6. Manga: RS > RB > Y > FRLG > XY > BW > E > DP > GSC
    "It's like with each new Generation, Dogasu becomes an even bigger idiot than he was the last Generation." - Kalos Adventurer

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    I don't understand why. Ash is one of my favorites.

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    Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
    I don't understand why. Ash is one of my favorites.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B01o2xtJwgk
    Opinions Regarding the Pokémon:
    1. Anime: OS > AG > BW > DP > XY
    2. Movies: OS = AG > DP = BW = XY
    3. English Dub: 4Kids Entertainment/TAJ Productions (EP001-EP276; AG001-AG020) = 4Kids Entertainment (AG021-AG145) = TPCi/SDI Media (The Origin)/Very Good > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (BW)/Poor > PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions (AG146-AG192)/Very Poor > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (XY) = PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions/DuArt Film & Video (DP)/Atrocious
    4. Games: XY > BW1 > BW2 > RSE > GSC > Y > HGSS > DP > RBG
    5. Pokémon: The Origin: Excellent: 93/100.
    6. Manga: RS > RB > Y > FRLG > XY > BW > E > DP > GSC
    "It's like with each new Generation, Dogasu becomes an even bigger idiot than he was the last Generation." - Kalos Adventurer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwail8023 View Post
    Fair enough. Trollbias was the worst part of the Sinnoh League. XD.

    I think most older fans are frustrated with what the older characters have been turned into. How their voices have changed so dramatically as far as the English dub goes, their personalities so drastically altered, and not in a good way to them. I guess I fall into that category myself. It's painful to watch.
    Well I can understand the voices to a point. It is the fact I see people bashing him who watch the subbed version only. I do find it odd how he is a hero but doesn't really do as well as other heroes in kid shows like Beyblade or Yugioh or heck even Bakugan which as horrible writing lol

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    He never wins a league
    He always starts off dumb in the beginning of every season
    He always gets stuck in friendzone
    Loses to weakass pokemon
    Has to use Pokedex on every pokemon
    We don't know who his father is (prob Prof Oak)
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    There's been many reasons why people have been upset about Ash in different seasons from using non-evolved Pokemon, to voice acting/dialogue, to being less of a character than they are capable of making him. Honestly, I think it simply boils down to the writers not really knowing how to make Ash change and still be popular at the same time. I'd go as far as to say they don't even know what their audience really wants from Ash because of how mixed opinions are about so many aspects. One things for sure though, they need to start by being consistent with their foundation. What are the core values of Pokemon and how does Ash, as the main character, help express those values? When does Ash utilize trademarks of his character such as rashness, determination, and thinking outside the box, and how can that be balanced more effectively? What types of friends, both human and Pokemon, can surround him so they compliment each others personality and development? If they can come up with a solution to fit the answer to questions like these, Ash will hopefully have a better standing in the fandom.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokatsu View Post
    Well I can understand the voices to a point. It is the fact I see people bashing him who watch the subbed version only. I do find it odd how he is a hero but doesn't really do as well as other heroes in kid shows like Beyblade or Yugioh or heck even Bakugan which as horrible writing lol
    Exactly. Personally, I think they're just trying to milk poor Ash/Satoshi at this point. It's great that BW was trying to make him more like he was in the OS, but at this stage in the series, it would've been better to see him advance rather than progress.

    I really don't know why he's never done that well as opposed to Yugi, Takao/Tyson, or even...Dan. I think he's being milked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluelatios* View Post
    There's been many reasons why people have been upset about Ash in different seasons from using non-evolved Pokemon, to voice acting/dialogue, to being less of a character than they are capable of making him. Honestly, I think it simply boils down to the writers not really knowing how to make Ash change and still be popular at the same time. I'd go as far as to say they don't even know what their audience really wants from Ash because of how mixed opinions are about so many aspects. One things for sure though, they need to start by being consistent with their foundation. What are the core values of Pokemon and how does Ash, as the main character, help express those values? When does Ash utilize trademarks of his character such as rashness, determination, and thinking outside the box, and how can that be balanced more effectively? What types of friends, both human and Pokemon, can surround him so they compliment each others personality and development? If they can come up with a solution to fit the answer to questions like these, Ash will hopefully have a better standing in the fandom.
    TPCi has finally managed to make him sound like a human being this arc. No more "y'know" or "o'course" -esque lines. His voice has also gotten better in the dub as well since the VA switch like most of the current crew (it still holds nothing on Taylor to me). Both aspects definitely still need some work on the part of the dubbers, but it's much better in that regard than it was in the DP arc in that respect.

    Case in point, no "This kid reminds me of me!" stuff anymore. Thank goodness TPCi realized that was poor dialogue for Ash.

    What is with TPCi and making Ash drop his g's, BTW? It's such childish dialogue...-_-. They should really work on that.

    Like most things, I think it's the writers in JPN these days who do not know how to keep the older chars fresh. They tried with TRio, but that's yielded very mixed results. The dubbers aren't helping much, either. *sigh*
    Last edited by PokemonNation2000; 11th February 2013 at 1:26 AM.
    Opinions Regarding the Pokémon:
    1. Anime: OS > AG > BW > DP > XY
    2. Movies: OS = AG > DP = BW = XY
    3. English Dub: 4Kids Entertainment/TAJ Productions (EP001-EP276; AG001-AG020) = 4Kids Entertainment (AG021-AG145) = TPCi/SDI Media (The Origin)/Very Good > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (BW)/Poor > PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions (AG146-AG192)/Very Poor > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (XY) = PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions/DuArt Film & Video (DP)/Atrocious
    4. Games: XY > BW1 > BW2 > RSE > GSC > Y > HGSS > DP > RBG
    5. Pokémon: The Origin: Excellent: 93/100.
    6. Manga: RS > RB > Y > FRLG > XY > BW > E > DP > GSC
    "It's like with each new Generation, Dogasu becomes an even bigger idiot than he was the last Generation." - Kalos Adventurer

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    Yugi doing much better than Ash may be an unfair comparison though because Yugi has to win most of his duels or else the whole world he lives in would be in danger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwail8023 View Post
    Exactly. Personally, I think they're just trying to milk poor Ash/Satoshi at this point. It's great that BW was trying to make him more like he was in the OS, but at this stage in the series, it would've been better to see him advance rather than progress.

    I really don't know why he's never done that well as opposed to Yugi, Takao/Tyson, or even...Dan. I think he's being milked.
    I think it is the fact compared to Beyblade and Bakugan which did story arcs from around 30 to 50 eps Pokemon has to stretch the game story for almost 4 years. I do wish they reduced it to around 50ish and stopped the anime until a new game was out. Even staying with Ash this could do well. For example DP could of been 52 eps ended two years later we get a Giratana and Shaymin movie and after that a 25 or so anime about Ash going back to Johto to advertise HG/SS. That could of been Gen 4 anime in a nutshell without dragging it out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemaniac24 View Post
    Yugi doing much better than Ash may be an unfair comparison though because Yugi has to win most of his duels or else the whole world he lives in would be in danger.
    True, there's no pressure on him to save the world from darkness and chaos. That's too unfair on my part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kokatsu View Post
    I think it is the fact compared to Beyblade and Bakugan which did story arcs from around 30 to 50 eps Pokemon has to stretch the game story for almost 4 years. I do wish they reduced it to around 50ish and stopped the anime until a new game was out. Even staying with Ash this could do well. For example DP could of been 52 eps ended two years later we get a Giratana and Shaymin movie and after that a 25 or so anime about Ash going back to Johto to advertise HG/SS. That could of been Gen 4 anime in a nutshell without dragging it out.
    The anime in general has been dragged out for a very long time. LOL.

    Gens II and IV could've been much more faster-paced, but then I don't know how many gens we'd have had by now! ROFL.
    Opinions Regarding the Pokémon:
    1. Anime: OS > AG > BW > DP > XY
    2. Movies: OS = AG > DP = BW = XY
    3. English Dub: 4Kids Entertainment/TAJ Productions (EP001-EP276; AG001-AG020) = 4Kids Entertainment (AG021-AG145) = TPCi/SDI Media (The Origin)/Very Good > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (BW)/Poor > PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions (AG146-AG192)/Very Poor > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (XY) = PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions/DuArt Film & Video (DP)/Atrocious
    4. Games: XY > BW1 > BW2 > RSE > GSC > Y > HGSS > DP > RBG
    5. Pokémon: The Origin: Excellent: 93/100.
    6. Manga: RS > RB > Y > FRLG > XY > BW > E > DP > GSC
    "It's like with each new Generation, Dogasu becomes an even bigger idiot than he was the last Generation." - Kalos Adventurer

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    Not to mention him using type disadvantages over and over like when he sent Oshawott against a Hydreigon and he lost, and he never brung his old Pokemon and he relies on some of his unevolved Pokemon. He can't beat a Riolu and Pikachu lost to an OP newly evolved Lucario and Panpour. Or Leavanny against a Scolipede.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwail8023 View Post
    True, there's no pressure on him to save the world from darkness and chaos. That's too unfair on my part.
    I have a problem with Ash losing every League too but like I said, him losing the League doesn't put him in danger. If Yugi lost the tournaments he entered, something really bad would happen to that world and they wouldn't allow that in a kids' show XD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quilava42 View Post
    Not to mention him using type disadvantages over and over like when he sent Oshawott against a Hydreigon and he lost, and he never brung his old Pokemon and he relies on some of his unevolved Pokemon. He can't beat a Riolu and Pikachu lost to an OP newly evolved Lucario and Panpour. Or Leavanny against a Scolipede.
    *Facepalms*

    smh...

    He forgets all the lessons he's learned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemaniac24 View Post
    I have a problem with Ash losing every League too but like I said, him losing the League doesn't put him in danger. If Yugi lost the tournaments he entered, something really bad would happen to that world and they wouldn't allow that in a kids' show XD
    ROFL. That's true. I wish he'd just win a league other than the Orange League and Battle Frontier Challenge by now. It's been 15 years. Sure we're obviously not the target audience of this show, but it's really sad what happened in the Unova League. That is easily the worst part of BW, by far, to me. Hopefully, this is it for TRio.
    Last edited by PokemonNation2000; 11th February 2013 at 1:54 AM.
    Opinions Regarding the Pokémon:
    1. Anime: OS > AG > BW > DP > XY
    2. Movies: OS = AG > DP = BW = XY
    3. English Dub: 4Kids Entertainment/TAJ Productions (EP001-EP276; AG001-AG020) = 4Kids Entertainment (AG021-AG145) = TPCi/SDI Media (The Origin)/Very Good > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (BW)/Poor > PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions (AG146-AG192)/Very Poor > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (XY) = PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions/DuArt Film & Video (DP)/Atrocious
    4. Games: XY > BW1 > BW2 > RSE > GSC > Y > HGSS > DP > RBG
    5. Pokémon: The Origin: Excellent: 93/100.
    6. Manga: RS > RB > Y > FRLG > XY > BW > E > DP > GSC
    "It's like with each new Generation, Dogasu becomes an even bigger idiot than he was the last Generation." - Kalos Adventurer

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    I'm gonna do something bold, and omit a few points from my argument. I won't count these against Ash:

    -Still 10 Years old (there's little chance of him again; never has, likely never will)
    -Never won a Pokemon League (give the guy a break; even though he came so close to the finals, there's obviously going to be regression in future leagues)
    -His current voice actor (come on y'all, it's been 7 years, let it go.)


    But for most of my opinion, I'm inclined to agree on regression. Much, much regression. Taking a step back in his progress; not to mention most of his prior development down the drain. I'm surprise Dawn picked up some of Ash's strategies and he hasn't used much of them in the current saga. And she's not a dominate battler. Then again, his battling hasn't been too shabby in BW; especially in the Tag Team episode. But I digress.

    Ash isn't what he use to be back in the day, that's for sure. Some people will see him different; depending on their prior viewing of the show or not.

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    Not that I condone bashing Ash or anyone else, but I can sort of understand why people may not like him. I mean the guy barely ever developed as a character and just when he had finally gotten to the point where he was maturing (DP), the writers went and took all that development from him and made him regress instead (BW). It's difficult to like a character who only changes for the worst. That's why I'm personally not here for Ash any more. I gave him more than a decade to impress me, but he failed to live up to my expectations.

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    Probably because he's basically little more than a self-insert for kids.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokatsu View Post
    Ok hear me out on this. No bashing or trolling or any of that. I am curious to know why people say Ash sucks. Even in BW where he seemed to regress at the start he still has skills in battle. The kid has pulled of some awesome moves in the middle of a battle,beat legendaries and saved the world over ten times. Now I know he never wins the league and idk if it is the writers saying something to us but I keep seeing people say he sucks and she be replaced. (Which if you think about it would be silly since they would do the same thing with a new person. So without making this a war discuss.
    Basically, it comes down to opinions and just how far people take things. Some people can't deal with characters and will sometimes get too excessive with their dislike. Pretty much anything about a character is up for dislike and as such can be taken too far and then get bashed. Despite the bashing, Ash is still liked by many, he's just not going to be able to avoid any hate(And by extension, bashing). It happens with every character(In and out of Pokemon), there's no such thing as an universally liked character(Or disliked) and as such opinions are going to be brought up, and as I said, some people take it too far.

    I'm going to close this though. People have already listed reasons why someone may dislike Ash, and while this thread isn't to target Ash and bash him, it's bound to get some excessive posts down the line(They're coming off borderline to me as it is).
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