BWS2EN-8 - Charizard [FIRST POST UPDATED 2/7]

[Joltik-Kid]

Which makes it odd that Bulbasaur/Squirtle aren't returning even if it would just be for this one episode.

The conspiracy still stands... Fire types are well loved by the animators

[Dephender]

Was it ever revealed if Gliscor got sent back to the Air Master dude, or not?

There's absolutely no logical reason to assume it went back there. It finished the training it stayed there for, why would it go back?

[pokemonsquared]

The conspiracy still stands... Fire types are well loved by the animators

The real reason is that the writers dont want to give mijumaru or tsutarja any competition from kanto.

[Locormus]

There's absolutely no logical reason to assume it went back there. It finished the training it stayed there for, why would it go back?

Exactly, we were never given a real reason for it to stay there permanently. We kinda all thought it was going to do a Charizard, and it kinda did, but it completed a training. So why send it back? Charizard was going to train forever and Ash kinda made sure that he would never want him back, or at Oak's for that matter. With Gliscor, it definitely wasn't the case.

[d4rk_tailed]

No, I meant that Bulba & Squirt aren't able to squeeze out anymore new developments (unless they evolve) unlike Charizard, whose whole disobedience problem was never properly discussed.

Id say thats not the actual difference, surely its more to do with the fact that Squirtle and Bulbasaur (ignoring types and moves) almost wholly resemble Pikachu? The writers make them look strong and capable, but theyre small packages and would only end up doing what Pikachu already does.

I dont know the direction this saga and the movie are going in regarding Charizard, but Charizards big, it flies and can offer more wow factor against TP than the other two unevolved starters. Is the mood and disobedience thing still really unresolved?

[besho]

If they cut out all the boring Johto episodes and only left the important or good ones, you'd go down from a 157 episode saga to about a 65 episode one at most.

That actually wouldn't be that bad to be honest. Keep the 65 or so good Johto episodes and throw the others in filler hell where they belong.

I do like your opinion cyber in mostly everything, but i think your wrong with this one. I know that pokemon have so many filler episode but they have to do that in every new region in order to introduce the pokemons! and see them in an animated form! Also, do you remember when you were a 10 year old kid? We enjoyed every single pokemon episode back in the old days! we didn't care about fillers ! we just enjoyed every single moment in pokemon and that is why we have these memories that we can't forget.
So, that is exactly what is happening to the new generation kids! they enjoy these fillers just like we enjoyed them back in the old days.

[Thriller]

I dont know the direction this saga and the movie are going in regarding Charizard, but Charizards big, it flies and can offer more wow factor against TP than the other two unevolved starters. Is the mood and disobedience thing still really unresolved?

Yes. It was never cemented what caused it. It was stated it had to do with Ash not being "experienced" enough (which, in fair, was supposed to mirror the effect in the games) but it got very clear it had more to do with it. Finally, they have a chance to officially clear it up.

[Pepsi_Plunge]

The conspiracy still stands... Fire types are well loved by the animators

What conspiracy? around the forum and on random forums everyone seems to love Charizard, dragons were being promoted last year, Charizard is just more popular, Squirtle actually deserves more attention of the 3, Bulbasaur is fine atleast he got a cameo last region, unless its to evolve him I'm not really that excited to see him doing anything big, we have enough small pokemon rigth now.

He didn't miss Tauros, Buizel. Kingler and Corpish when he saw them, he didn't really give much attentiont to his Muk either when it appeared with Oak.

[CyberCubed]

What conspiracy? around the forum and on random forums everyone seems to love Charizard, dragons were being promoted last year, Charizard is just more popular, Squirtle actually deserves more attention of the 3, Bulbasaur is fine atleast he got a cameo last region, unless its to evolve him I'm not really that excited to see him doing anything big, we have enough small pokemon rigth now.

He didn't miss Tauros, Buizel. Kingler and Corpish when he saw them, he didn't really give much attentiont to his Muk either when it appeared with Oak.

Which shows Ash's blatant favortism. Hasn't used Kingler in like a decade and he doesn't even give a damn to say Hi to it.

[Ciccone]

The conspiracy still stands... Fire types are well loved by the animators

Wow. Do you run a tea house or something? 'Cause you continue to serve delicious truth tea wherever you go. I agree that Fire-types get all the love. I mean I still holler when I remember all the boasts about how Oshawott was going to be the main Starter and get all the glory on the battlefield in BW, but look how that turned out. Instead Pignite is getting almost as much love as Infernape and Charizard. It's obvious that the writers are only here for Fire-type Starters, which is kind of sad. I really did want to see Bulbasaur and Squirle; I would have even settled for a mere reference. But I don't expect that to happen. This whole episode is about Charizard and Misty's cameo. I'm trying to stay positive about the Charizard stuff, but the Kanto fair just doesn't feel complete without all of Ash's Kanto Pokemon being mentioned.

The real reason is that the writers dont want to give mijumaru or tsutarja any competition from kanto.

Pfft. Like Bulbasaur and Squirtle would be any competition at this point. Please, Oshawott and Snivy continue slaying.

[CyberCubed]

I'm trying to stay positive about the Charizard stuff, but the Kanto fair just doesn't feel complete without all of Ash's Kanto Pokemon being mentioned.

I actually really agree. We know they'd only be in this one episode, so Bulbasaur and Squirtle not taking part feels really odd. They probably won't be seen for the rest of the arc either.

[_Taidow_]

I hope they have a Kanto Cup in the anime where Ash acknowledges the rest of his Kanto pokemon after Charizard leaves.

[Pepsi_Plunge]

I hope Pignite, Quilava and Torkoal evolve in the next arc or rather Torkoal if he hopefully gets an evolution in the 6gen comes back and evolves.

[sc090500]

I feel like the Bulbasaur and Squirtle species have already gotten more than enough attention in the past, especially compared to Charmander. Not only did Ash's Bulbasaur and Squirte stay on his team till early and mid Johto, (as well as appear as main characters in the first few shorts), but May obtained both as well, and had them on her team at completely different times spanning near a hundred episodes and three movies (1 with Bulb & 2 with Squirt). Charmander and his evolutions deserve this episode, (even though most appearances will be through some awesome flash backs). Ash's Charmander evolved early in the series, and Ritchi used his near the end of the Indigo League. After that, Charmander has only appeared a few times in the anime, and only as part of a group focus episode or as background character over the last 600 episodes. (Except for the Dungeon Short).

Should Ash's Squirtle and Bulbasaur be mentioned....Hell Yes, but give Charmander, Charmeleon, and yes the all popular Charizard their moment. (I do agree it was unfair Ash didnt recall Buizel, Corphish, or Kingler)

Also, in response to the conversations about animation quality, for both Charizard and the flashbacks...
- I think Charizard looks great, the animation for him is amazing, both in detail and in how fluid the movements look, AG Charizard (except for the one in Brocks return to Pewter Gym) looked awkward and the animation was extremely lazy. This new version of Charizard is great, also I like how he now uses his tail and claws in battle as apposed to all range attacks. Still hoping for blastburn though.
- The new re-animated flash backs are also awesome. Yes I grew up with watching the originals, and I still love them, but I love seeing it updated with crisp colors and smoother details. If they used the old animation, it would not fit right in the episode, and feel pointless since i could just rewatch it anyways. Reading that some people dont like the little changes in how scenes were shot, I disagree. Mainly because Charmander is my absolute favorite next to Pikachu and Totodile, and seeing him in high quality action shots is sooooo cool. I am in love with the scene in the latest trailer of Charmander jumping into the sky and hitting the pokeball, cant wait to see and hear it with the sound effects added.

[_Taidow_]

I hope Pignite, Quilava and Torkoal evolve in the next arc or rather Torkoal if he hopefully gets an evolution in the 6gen comes back and evolves.

No thanks. With every one of Ash's fire types evolving (the ones that could) it's nice that he has a stand-alone fire type. The only thing Torkoal needs is redemption not evolution. Besides think of it in a game logic, Eviolite Torkoal would be too much. That's one of the reaosns why I think Shuckle will never get an evolution but that's a different topic.

Which shows Ash's blatant favortism. Hasn't used Kingler in like a decade and he doesn't even give a damn to say Hi to it.

I know right? One would think he'd favor Kingler after being the only pokemon to sweep an entire team.

[pokemonsquared]

I know right? One would think he'd favor Kingler after being the only pokemon to sweep an entire team.

Uh Charizard would love to have a word with you. I see no problem in giving more screentime to those that deserve it.

[Pepsi_Plunge]

No thanks. With every one of Ash's fire types evolving (the ones that could) it's nice that he has a stand-alone fire type. The only thing Torkoal needs is redemption not evolution. Besides think of it in a game logic, Eviolite Torkoal would be too much. That's one of the reaosns why I think Shuckle will never get an evolution but that's a different topic.

So we are in agreement about the other two? what about an Eevee that evolvs into Flareon?(he can get an Espeon too)

[Haunter227]

That's nice, you're the one who said trying to remember less than a year's worth of events would be torture, in a sarcastic way....and yet you have the gall to say "Pokemon ain't real" to me.

What the hell does that matter, so what if Pokemon isn't real?

Last time I checked memories weren't a Pokemon exclusive phenomenon.

You know what you had for dinner last night? Guess what that's called a memory.

I was joking Dman, lighten up man.

5 regions in one year, remembering the capture of each of his Pokemon shouldn't be too much of a task. If you're a gamer, you'll know that you play a mass amount of games in one year and you'll remember the characters, locations and the storylines with ease.

The case should be exactly the same here really, since it's within at least one year, I'd understand why it'd be easy to forget if Ash was 15, looking back at it the flashback.

Eh, i'm done talking about the flashbacks now but i'd like to state that i can guarantee the flashback isn't Ash's revision of the scene because his memory has faded, but simply the animators creative decision to make the scene look new and interesting yet still retaining the original feeling of the scene.

[Joltik-Kid]

Wow. Do you run a tea house or something? 'Cause you continue to serve delicious truth tea wherever you go. I agree that Fire-types get all the love. I mean I still holler when I remember all the boasts about how Oshawott was going to be the main Starter and get all the glory on the battlefield in BW, but look how that turned out. Instead Pignite is getting almost as much love as Infernape and Charizard. It's obvious that the writers are only here for Fire-type Starters, which is kind of sad. I really did want to see Bulbasaur and Squirle; I would have even settled for a mere reference. But I don't expect that to happen. This whole episode is about Charizard and Misty's cameo. I'm trying to stay positive about the Charizard stuff, but the Kanto fair just doesn't feel complete without all of Ash's Kanto Pokemon being mentioned.

It hard for me to blatantly ignore what's shown on this show. I'll give Infernape some credit as it likely isn't gonna be getting much more attention down the line due to Charizard (which for some unknown reason, everyone in the world and their mother knows of it's existanse). But still, Infernape still got way too much unneeded attention at some points in Sinnoh, just like Charmander took up way too much time in Kanto, which made Squirtle pretty much obsolete because Bulbasaur took up the mantle after the disobedience took place. Johto was pretty much Cyndaquil hour, even though Chikarita evolved, Cyndaquil was the second most used gym Pokemon, only missing the first (because it wasn't captured), fifth, and last gyms (because of Charizard). Then the Johto league come around, who shines the most? Everyone's most beloved and over-hyped fire lizard, Charizard. Sure Squirtle beat Electabuzz and Bulbasaur tied against Meganium, but Charizard soloed half of Gary's team, including Blastoise. But because this fandom seems to only count Charizard's wins, the fact it lost Ash's first to leagues seem to blow right past them. Most of it's loses are blamed on Ash too :P Now we have Oshawott, who gets his fair share of screentime, but Pignite taking up mostly every battle. Poor Snivy is getting the dirt treatment, I could hardly call her win record impressive due to lack of overall use. Things pretty much went downhill after she lost to Trip's Servine in the rematch

Gotta say, Hoenn was the only region that felt refreshing in terms of Pokemon use...

[TheFonz]

It hard for me to blatantly ignore what's shown on this show. I'll give Infernape some credit as it likely isn't gonna be getting much more attention down the line due to Charizard (which for some unknown reason, everyone in the world and their mother knows of it's existanse). But still, Infernape still got way too much unneeded attention at some points in Sinnoh, just like Charmander took up way too much time in Kanto, which made Squirtle pretty much obsolete because Bulbasaur took up the mantle after the disobedience took place. Johto was pretty much Cyndaquil hour, even though Chikarita evolved, Cyndaquil was the second most used gym Pokemon, only missing the first (because it wasn't captured), fifth, and last gyms (because of Charizard). Then the Johto league come around, who shines the most? Everyone's most beloved and over-hyped fire lizard, Charizard. Sure Squirtle beat Electabuzz and Bulbasaur tied against Meganium, but Charizard soloed half of Gary's team, including Blastoise. But because this fandom seems to only count Charizard's wins, the fact it lost Ash's first to leagues seem to blow right past them. Most of it's loses are blamed on Ash too :P Now we have Oshawott, who gets his fair share of screentime, but Pignite taking up mostly every battle. Poor Snivy is getting the dirt treatment, I could hardly call her win record impressive due to lack of overall use. Things pretty much went downhill after she lost to Trip's Servine in the rematch

Gotta say, Hoenn was the only region that felt refreshing in terms of Pokemon use...

I feel that Charizard only needs to be called upon for the most important battles. I liked the Sinnoh League for that reason. Ash used lesser used Pokémon like Gible, Donphan, Noctowl, and Heracross in the early rounds. I feel that's the best way to give Pokémon redemption.

I assumed Ash was saving the best (Charizard, Bulbasaur, Squirtle, etc) for last. That's what I feel Ash would do if he wins a league and fights the Elite Four. I wish Ash would somehow show or talk about Kingler, Tauros, and Muk. Those were his powerhouses too when he started out