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Thread: OU sun team: Team Mirage Sun

  1. #1
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    Default OU sun team: Team Mirage Sun

    OU Sun Team: Team Mirage Sun

    Yeah, here's an OU sun team. Deal with it.

        Spoiler:- Thanks to the following users:


        Spoiler:- team building process:


    So here's the team for now, hope you like it.


    Team Mirage Sun


    Amaterasu the Ninetales @ Leftovers
    Ability- Drought
    Timid Nature. 252 spd, 252 HP, 4 sp. Atk
    Job Class- Red Mage
    Flamethrower
    Sunny Day
    Will-o-wisp
    Roar

    I tried to make a utility set and decided to take advantage of Ninetales's base 100 speed. Through this, I have Flamethrower as her main STAB. Sunny Day allowed me to annoy Politoed and survive a direct encounter with it. Will-o-wisp can deter Tyrannitar, who dislikes burns. Roar allows me to phaze set-up sweepers.


    Nike the Victini @ Expert Belt
    Ability- Victory Star
    Naive Nature. 252 Atk, 252 spd, 4 sp. Atk
    Job Class- Berserker (demolish EVERYTHING!!)
    V-Create
    Bolt Strike
    Brick Break
    Glaciate

    Choice Scarf Victini has shown me how Victini's V-Create is powerful even without a boost. As a result, I decided to go for a 'mixed' set. Okay, it's physically biased. Even a LO boosted V-Create can punch huge holes into the opponent's team, and Fusion Bolt allows me to predict a Politoed switch in and KO it with Bolt Strike (Although I can switch moves). To be honest, it's pretty easy to predict a switch. Switch in Victini on a Scizor, and use Bolt Strike for the incoming Politoed. Brick Break takes care of Tyrannitar and Heatran for me. Finally, while Glaciate seems like a strange choice, it can surprise common switch-ins such as Defensive Intimidate Salamence and Dragonite, nailing them for supereffective damage on the special side. It also lets me take down one of Victini's best counters: Dugtrio. Getting off a Glaciate on the switch in will break Dugtrio's sash and lower his speed, allowing me to KO him the next turn by outspending and using Glaciate. Sucker Punch? Sadly for Dugtrio, Victini can tank that.



    Number 3 the Venusaur @ Life Orb
    Ability Chlorophyll
    Modest Nature. 252 SAtk, 4 HP, 252 Spd
    Job Class- Black Mage
    Growth
    Giga Drain
    Sludge Bomb
    Hidden Power [Fire]

    For some reason, Growth Venusaur didn't exactly work out for me in the past. Oh well, Blue Harvest suggested this set, and while I still have to test it, based on what he said this is a good set. After a Growth boost, Venusaur has the power to OHKO all of OU bar Blissey and Heatran. Giga Drain allows me to heal up Life Orb recoil, Sludge Bomb as a main STAB, and Hidden Power Fire as coverage.


    Luna the Cresselia @ Leftovers.
    Ability- Levitate
    Calm Nature. 252 HP, 120 def, 136 sp. def
    Job Class- Paladin
    Ice Beam/Icy Wind
    Thunder Wave
    Moonlight
    Lunar Dance

    This Cresselia is just tanky as hell. Able to take hard hits and heal back all the health with a sun-boosted Moonlight. Ice Beam is for attacking pokemon such as Garchomp, Dragonite, and Landorus T, for while Victini has Glaciate, it doesn't want to switch in on any of them. Cresselia, on the other hand, has no problem switching in, and can Ice Beam them to death and heal back lost HP with Moonlight. Thunder Wave can paralyze faster sweepers that need their speed to pose an offensive threat. Finally, Lunar Dance is a free healing and switch in at the cost of Cresselia.



    Sackbug the Forretress @ Leftovers
    Ability- Sturdy
    Sassy Nature. 252 HP, 252 sp. def, 4 def. 0 spd IVs
    Job Class- Geomancer (hazard control)
    Spikes
    Rapid Spin
    Volt Switch
    Earthquake/Gyro Ball

    The two things I hate about sun team is that the only steel type that does amazing in sun is Heatran, and I really hate Heatran, and the other is a lack of good spinners. Either way, I decided to go with Forretress, who can set up hazards and spin. Sturdy allows me to take a fire type hit and rapid spin. If it needs to do the job again, Healing Wish from Lilligant or Lunar Dance from Cresselia can bring it back to full health to spin again. Volt Switch allows me to escape if I need to, and Earthquake/Gyro Ball is for extra coverage, maybe.



    Trio the Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
    Ability- Arena Trap
    Jolly Nature. 252 Atk, 252 spd, 4 HP
    Job Class- Monk
    Stealth Rock
    Earthquake
    Stone Edge
    Sucker Punch

    Your average Dugtrio is here to attack opposing opponents that wall the other members of the team. Earthquake and Stone Edge provide the infamous EdgeQuake combo. Stealth Rock is hazards, and Sucker Punch is for a form of priority to kill Choice Scarf Latios with. Focus Sash allows me to take a hit. Like Sackbug, he usually kills pokemon that wall the other members. When he's done with his job (killing Heatran), he is often sacked for a free switch in.


    Team weaknesses:
    Quite reliant on sun
    No cleric, only Safeguard from Amaterasu

    So, what do you think?
    Last edited by silverangel; 15th February 2013 at 1:44 AM.
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  2. #2
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    good to see some decent sun teams
    personally i love sun, to bad its pretty bad with a rain dominated metagame :s

    as far as the team goes, looks pretty solid. Idk about that tales set, as most things that will switch into tales are weather mons or cm latias. I would use a more support set, same evs, but move spread like
    Wow/roar/flamethrower/sunny day,toxic,or sub toxic works better agaist toad, while sunny day can for the weather inducer back out, or sub as a back up incase WoW misses against tar, which is always annoying.
    Victini, i thought he had to be lax to use bolt strike :s either way i would avoid glaciate and use u turn with a scarf or band, as it helps gain momentium, and nothing can stand up to victinis v create in the sun :P
    I used liligant once and found it a let down compaired to venusaur and sawsbucks. I wouldnt use healing wish as liligant is ment to sweep, i would use quiver dance instead, and giga drain. Also use hp rock over ice
    cress is a nice sun support in the way of screens, lunar dance, and general bulk. However, as you said it baits in ttar, and in the long run imo, fails to keep the momentuim going a sun team needs. i suggest landorus therian as a replacment, as he is a solid answer to terrakion and tyrannitar, plus his bulk makes him an excellent utility poke, while u turn keeps the momentium on your side, he can use HP ice to kill lando i`s that try and set up on him.
    Forry was a staple bw sun spinner, but from my experience, and the current metagame, i would suggest sun starmie or if you want a bulkier spinner toxic tentacruel, as they give you a rain pivot as well as a solid answer to keldeo.
    Zoroark is a cool mon, but idk about him on this team. I would replace him personnaly with heatran as heatran gives you a sponge for fire attacks, and gives you a more reliable answer to lati@s. Heatran can run either a sp def set, or an offensive flame charge set, which is devestating under the sun.

    here are the sets if you want to take my suggestions
    Landorus-T@ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 Def
    Adamant/Naughty
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - U-turn
    - Stone Edge/HP ice

    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Psyshock/thunderbolt
    - Rapid Spin
    - Ice Beam

    Heatran@ Leftovers/life orb/air ballon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Flame Charge
    - Fire Blast
    - SolarBeam
    - Hidden Power [Ice]



  3. #3
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    I don't think you're using sun effectively. You have a dual screener but no real setup sweeper. You say you're reliant on sun but in fact I see the complete opposite.

    I would max speed on Ninetales as base 100 speed is an important tier with things like Salamence laying there and other hard hitters very close like Haxorus or Volcorana. Now, from here you have two options, either max HP or max SpA IMO as its bulk and attacking prowess isn't great. Use movesets appropriate to EV spread. Overheat + Swap seems too gimmicky.

    I don't really like the idea of Lunar Dance on Cresselia especially if you opt to keep Healing Wish on Lilligant. Cresselia is one of the best mixed walls in the game and with access to Moonlight in sun it's extremely hard to take out allowing it to setup multiple screens throughout the match.

    Next I'm not too sure about keeping HW on Lilligant as Sun is borderline HO to me. Lilligant has a fantastic boosting move in Quiver Dance and I think it should utilize it over HW.

    I would then add Flame Charge Air Balloon Heatran suggested above over Zoroark as it resists Scizor's BP while sweeping at +1 or more speed.

    I'd probably slap a Band on Victini over LO as you'll be using V-Create mos of the time then just switch basically hit and run and choice items do that better. Otherwise I'd throw in a physical sweeper like Sawsbuck with a pretty limited move pool but just the right moves needed for it to pull it off.

    Sawsbuck @ Life Orb
    EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Spe
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    - Horn Leech
    - Swords Dance
    - Return
    - Nature Power / Jump Kick

  4. #4
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    @ McDanger- that Victini event could be any nature. Also, using a Choice Item means Dugtrio can easily come in and revenge kill Victini. I did consider a Choice Item, but I ended up preferring Life Orb, as it still crushes a lot of pokemon and even allows Victini to switch moves.

    With Victini's Life Orb wearing down its health, I need at least one Healing Wish user. I might go back to Katakiri's Jirachi set with Iron Head/Fire Punch/Ice Punch/Healing Wish holding a Shuca Berry (to bluff Choice Scarf) for healing, but if I have to get rid of Cresselia, then I have to let Lilligant keep Healing Wish. Speaking of Cresselia......

    Cresselia baits in Tyrannitar, and allows it to use Focus Blast on it. Zoroark bluffs a Cresselia so Tyrannitar will be tempted to stay in and use Pursuit, only to get hit by a Focus Blast. For the most part, it's Zoroark luring in Tyrannitar.

    I would change Forretress into Starmie/Tentacruel, I would lack a steel type. Before you say anything about Heatran, I will tell you, I just hate Heatran and I personally won't put it in most of my teams (in the only team I put it in I used it as a suicide Stealth Rock lead). If I use Jirachi over Cresselia again, then I would change Forretress.


    @ Atrocious- sure, I think I'll do that on Ninetales.

    As I said before, I may be switching Cresselia for Jirachi.

    Sorry, I just plain hate Heatran.
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  5. #5
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    Dugtrio will still destroy Victini regardless. In sun, half time you'll be using V-Create as I'm pretty sure a neutral V-Create out dmgs a SE Brick Break or whatever and a resisted V-Create out dmgs neutral coverage move in sun. With the stat drops using V-Create, you'll probably switch. But whatever, your choice.

    Tyranitar's run now seem to be bulky variants and Focus Blast from Zoroark will NOT KO TTar while it can severely damage Zoroark back with Superpower.

    Sacking 2 of your best Pokemon and one of your better potential sweepers for Victini, something that isn't particularly fast in a speedy meta, just seems detrimental to the team.

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    From what I can gather you think I should replace Cresselia and Zoroark, and Lilligant should run a Quiver Dance set. Well, Healing Wish also allows Ninetales to not die from hazards if it needs to switch in again.

    Okay, I'll actually switch Lilligant into a Quiver Dance set, and I'll use Katakiri's Jirachi over Cresselia. I may also consider Tentacruel/Starmie over Forretress.

    Victini can beat Dugtrio on the switch if it predicts a switch in and uses Glaciate. From there, Dugtrio is screwed if it's nailed with the Glaciate.

    Anything else? I could replace Zoroark, but I don't know what to replace it with. As I said before, no Heatran. I just don't like it. Also, Glaciate is for Dragon types such as Defensive Salamence or Dragonite. To be honest, I'm more flexible with using either a Choice item or Life Orb with Victini.
    Last edited by silverangel; 8th February 2013 at 8:00 PM.
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  7. #7
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    Healing Wish isn't that great to be honest, considering it's a one time use move and you have to sacrifice something to use it. Wish Passing would be far better, and that's something Jirachi can do, so that's more reason to switch Cresselia out for it.

    Ice Cold Fire

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    The only problem is that Wish requires the switch in to get attacked, and if the switch in is killed, you have wasted a turn setting up Wish. On the other hand, Healing Wish requires the user to faint, but provides a safe switch in and full recovery before hazards for the pokemon coming in. While it is arguable that Wish is better than Healing Wish, it would be foolish to dismiss Healing Wish as a bad move.

    And yes, I will be switching Cresselia for Jirachi.
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  9. #9
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    I'll be bumping this thread. Also, I have switched Cresselia for Jirachi and also changed the set Ninetales is running. I'll edit the main post when I get a chance, but here are the sets first.

    Gin the Jirachi @ Shuca Berry
    Ability- Serene Grace
    Jolly Nature. 252 Atk, 252 spd, 4 HP
    Job Class- Paladin
    Iron Head
    Fire Punch
    Ice Punch
    Healing Wish

    Shuca Berry allows me to bluff a Choice Scarf, survive an earthquake, which the majority of the team dislikes, and KO with Ice Punch on opposing Ground types. Fire Punch gets a boost in sun, and Iron Head is Jirachi's main STAB/haxing move. Finally, Healing Wish can bring another pokemon back to full health, such as a Ninetales that's about to faint or a Victini near death. From there, they can survive hazards and go back to do whatever they need to do.


    Amaterasu the Ninetales @ Leftovers
    Ability- Drought
    Timid Nature. 252 spd, 252 HP, 4 sp. Atk
    Flamethrower
    Substitute
    Disable
    Roar

    I actually don't know why I'm doing this. Whatever. As Ninetales loses out on Politoed and Tyrannitar, it shouldn't really be staying in on neither of them whatsoever. However, this SubDisable set can actually be quite annoying. While it doesn't have the power and speed of SubDisable Gengar, it has better defenses and phazing in case anyone decides to use this as a set-up opportunity. Flamethrower is its main STAB.


    Finally, I'm thinking of running White Herb on Victini. Should I? It lets me switch moves, but it also lets me use V-Create twice before I am forced out. Of course, this is in exchange of extra power. The items Victini can use are like this:

    Choice Scarf: Extra speed, but can't switch moves and gets no power boost. Can use V-Create twice in a row safely because of speed boost.
    Choice Band: huge attack boost, but can't switch moves. Can deal huge damage if it spams V-Create.
    Life Orb: Smaller attack boost, can switch moves but loses HP for every attack. Forced out if it uses V-Create.
    White Herb: no attack boost, but can switch moves and use V-Create twice in a row with no consequence.
    Last edited by silverangel; 11th February 2013 at 10:46 PM.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Dewott View Post
    Healing Wish isn't that great to be honest, considering it's a one time use move and you have to sacrifice something to use it. Wish Passing would be far better, and that's something Jirachi can do, so that's more reason to switch Cresselia out for it.
    Healing wish is an amazing move, though I have some doubts on using a Lilligant without Quiver Dance.

    Anyhow you posted a new team so I'm just going to lock this.


    NEVERMIND


  11. #11
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    What do you think of this team then, Blue Harvest?
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  12. #12
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    Looks like an ok team. I like the idea of using two Healing Wish Pokemon to repeatedly fuel the sweep of a few powerful ones. The problem here is that year team lacks virtually any offensive power at all. You have Victini, Zoroark, and Lilligant. None of which are capable of sweeping very much on their own nor do they make use of Lunar Dance very well. You also have a massive weakness to Rain teams. Specs Politoed gets a KO every time it switches in just by spamming Hydro Pump. It switches in for free against a good portion of your team too. I tested your team a little and I think these changes might help

    Your Ninetales set isn't good at all. Safeguard is pointless and Overheat + Power Swap is terrible. Power Swapping against Tyranitar, Politoed, Heatran, Infernape, Gyarados, etc will get you nowhere. You need to take out opposing weather starters and do everything you can to weaken Heatran so Victini can sweep. Try this set.

    Ninetales @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 148 SDef / 108 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Flamethrower
    - Sunny Day
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Roar / Hidden Power Fighting

    Flamethrower deals passable damage under the sun OHKOing frail things like Scizor and Breloom. Sunny Day utterly ****s with Politoed who lose the ability to do anything useful. Will-O-Wisp hits Tyranitar / Politoed and helps quickly wear down offensive versions while making sure defensive Politoed eventually falls. Roar is surprisingly useful, preventing Sub Gyarados, Volcarona, Lum Haxorus, or whatever from freely setting up. It also assists with removing CM Latias so you can deal with it later. Another move is HP Fighting as that breaks Heatran's Balloon and does passable damage to Tyranitar (not much though).

    Life Orb Victini however, isn't very good. Just run Choice Scarf Adamant with U-turn > Glaciate. It is EXTREMELY easy to get kills with Scarf Victini. Even with the loss of Life Orb it packs a massive punch. V-Create in the sun is likely to OHKO Latios after rocks. It even 2HKOs physically defensive Jellicent with rocks most of the time. At -1 Speed it still can continue killing anything slower than 299 speed. At -2 it outruns defensive Rotom W and even as far as -3 speed it still outruns Skarmory.

    Lilligant is a cool idea, but its absolutely terrible without Quiver Dance. When I tested it while it certainly had its moments more often than not it used Sleep Powder, Leaf Storm, then Healing Wished. Not useless by any means but you could do with another sweeper a little more than you would additional support. Try Venusaur.

    Venusaur (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 HP / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Growth
    - Giga Drain
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    After a Growth with Stealth Rocks down you OHKO almost literally all of OU barring Heatran and Blissey. Even Dragonite, Latias, and Garchomp are ravaged in one shot.


    Now if you make those changes it leaves you pretty weak to Tyranitar, Heatran, Politoed, Terrakion and a few others. Victini REALLY needs those Pokemon dead, Venusaur needs sun, and guaranteed rocks are always nice. Zoroark is frail and doesn't really make much use of the sun. You say it lures in Heatran and Tyranitar but neither of those are guaranteed to work. You can just run Reversal Dugtrio to handle the major threats to your team.

    Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk
    Jolly Nature
    IVs: 21 HP
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Reversal
    - Stone Edge

    21 HP makes it so Blissey's Seismic Toss leaves you with 1 HP, so you can launch a full powered Reversal. This also lets you switch in on Tyranitar Crunch and OHKO it. You can even revenge kill Choice Specs Politoed. With Rocks down Earthquake + Reversal always KOs it. Earthquake OHKOs Terrakion and Heatran leaving almost nothing in the way of a Victini rampage.


    Your Cresselia set is worthless. Your team doesn't need dual screens so just run a support set.

    Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunder Wave
    - Lunar Dance
    - Moonlight

    Sorta like your set but this lets you spread Paralysis and check the dragons that can give sun a hard time. Moonlight heals 66% of your HP in sunlight so Cressy can stick around for a while.


    I ended up running Rapid Spin / Volt Switch / Gyro Ball / Spikes on Forretress. I like Physically Defensive Forretress here because it lets you stand up against many common Stealth Rockers longer and check Outrages a little easier. Then again Cresselia checks most of those things so Specially Defensive is fine too.

    Here is the importable with the changes made. It is your team though, feel free to use what you like best.

        Spoiler:- team:

  13. #13
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    @ Blue Harvest- did you see my second to last post? I was going to change Cresselia for Jirachi and changed Ninetales gimmicky set to another gimmicky SubDisable set. However, I will change the Ninetales set. I'm just wondering if I should replace Cresselia with Jirachi or go with the Cresselia set you have.

    I haven't used Choice Scarf Victini in a long time, as it gets revenged by Dugtrio too much. However, I will try it again. I actually liked Victini's Life Orb set, even when it isn't as effective. Glaciate also gave it pseudo-BoltBeam coverage.

    Going to replace Lilligant with Venusaur......

    Going to replace Zoroark with Dugtrio......

    Yeah, about Cresselia, I still have the Cresselia or Jirachi question, so I would like advice about that.

    Going to change Forretress's set......

    Thanks, Blue Harvest.

    EDIT: Switched Cresselia for Jirachi. Zoroark is staying in the team because he has been quite useful for the team. Testing Venusaur over Lilligant. Forretress is using the same set.

    Here's a few pokemon showdown matches, by the way.

    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou9713665

    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou9716040

    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou9719156

    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou9720868

    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou9721149

    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou9722235
    Last edited by silverangel; 13th February 2013 at 5:10 PM.
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    How is Life Orb Victini any better off against Dugtrio than Scarf? Scarf can U-turn out, LO HAS to connect Glaciate on Dugtrio or else it dies. Both are revenge killed after one Attack anyway. If you really have trouble with Dugtrio run Trick Room Victini and get Stealth Rocks down immediately.

    I really advise Dugtrio on the team. I don't care where you stick it, removing Heatran / Tyranitar / Politoed / Terrakion / Infernape are extremely important to your team. Dugtrio can also remove opposing Dugtrio if their sash is broken and yours is intact.

    Also try the Ninetales I suggested. Sub Disable sucks. You might force Politoed or Tyranitar out but you aren't actually beating them. They get their weather up and you lose a small amount of HP. How is that a victory?

    Cresselia worked for your team because it slowed down ground types and supported with Lunar Wish / Twave. As it is now your team is so utterly weak to ground moves that a Scarf Landorus / Salamence / Dugtrio / filler can literally just press Earthquake and every time they do something dies.

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    ^Yep, you're right about the ground types. I may go back to Cresselia, as Jirachi doesn't do anything but let Zoroark take out Ferrothorn.

    I'm checking to see which pokemon will get replaced by Dugtrio, as Heatran is and will be a complete pain in the ***. Of course, a Rhyperior could work over Dugtrio. What do you think?

    Sure, I'll try the Ninetales set, but it will take me a while to update the team, so please wait a while.....

    I'm still using Life Orb Victini, as Dugtrio hasn't become a pain in the ***, and I can take down Landorus T, Dragonite, and Defensive Intimidate Salamence.

    Still, is there a way to abuse Ninetales's base 100 speed? Oh well.
    Last edited by silverangel; 13th February 2013 at 5:42 PM.
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  16. #16
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    Rhyperior is good in some ways and certainly gets cool points but it won't help against Heatran. Heatran can just switch out and I'm pretty sure sun boosted Fire Blasts will 2HKO you anyway. It also does absolutely nothing against Politoed and isn't great against Terrakion.

    Fair enough about Victini. Your choice. Consider Charcoal though instead of Life Orb. Victini is weak to all hazards so it appreciates keeping itself alive. Glaciate + V-create in the sun will 2HKO basically everything in OU anyway.

    Edit: 100 base speed isn't that great anymore. Keeping Ninetales alive is by far the most important thing to worry about. You have other sweepers, and Ninetales's Special Attack is really weak anyway. Even with a sun boost.

  17. #17
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    Okay, so I'll keep Dugtrio and change up Ninetales's EVs to suit it better. It will take me a while to finish all the changes, so please wait.

    I still have no cleric. Should I worry about this?

    Yeah, a sun boosted Fire Blast from Heatran running max sp. Atk and a boosting nature will 2HKO Rhyperior regardless of what EVs it runs.

    You know what? If I'm trying to hit everything supereffectively, I might as well use Expert Belt on Victini. At least I can bluff a Choice item.

    Gah, Dugtrio works, but only when it comes to countering and killing Heatran. Other than that, he's practically Sackbug, getting sacked because he doesn't do much for the team. If there is another pokemon at can do more than just counter Heatran, that would be great.
    Last edited by silverangel; 14th February 2013 at 12:52 AM.
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  18. #18
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    Hi, never got around to rating this, so i decided to do so when I had some free time. I have seen some of these sets on the smogon forums such as the lilligant set. So here is the rate:

    Threats:
    Heatran is a big one, countering Ninetales, Venusaur, Forretress (w/o earthquake or Air balloon Heatran) and Jirachi. The only things that can hurt it are the weak Earthquake from Forretress, Victini's brick break and the unreliable Focus blast on Zoroark, and nothing on your team can safely switch into it.
    Tyranitar not only sets up sandstorm, but also counters/checks most of your team. It isn't as dangerous as Heatran, but still is a big threat.
    Mixed Infernape can sweep through a big part of your team with just fire blast, close combat and stone edge. It has a lot of different sets, so you never know what it's going to do either.
    Other threats: Politoed (obvious), Hippowdon (checks a lot and sets up ss), Lati@s.

    Changes:
    The team is really good and doesn't need much changes. To counter all threats I listed, Dugtrio would be a good choice to trap and eliminate them. I think it was already mentioned a few times, but it really will help your team. A fighting type with a strong priority also works, such as Conkeldurr or Breloom. Conkeldurr has more bulk, but Breloom's priority is stronger and does better at KOing defensive toed. Both beat up Heatran and Tyranitar too.

    What pokemon would you swap out if you were to use one of these pokes? I suggest Zoroark or Victini. All other members have specific tasks and are needed in the team for it to function well. Zoroark can only disguise as Venusaur or Forretress when SR is up and you're playing against skilled players, and both of those are not the best illusion teammates for Zoroark, as the illusion will be spoiled quickly. The best thing you can hope when disguising as Venusaur for is a Lati@s coming in on 'Venusaur' to check it and then killing it with Sucker punch. Victini doesn't have a specific role in the team and is therefore also a candidate to swap out if you would like to.

    Minor moveset changes:
    There's almost nothing, as all sets are well thought over. The only thing I'm not sure about is the shuca berry on Jirachi. I've never seen or used it so I can't really say much about it, but I think Jirachi appreciates the health from lefties or the speed from a scarf more.

    Conclusion:
    This team is a great team, and I think it can still improve a little by using Dugtrio, Conkeldurr or Breloom to beat up the main counters to the team. I hope this rate helped, and if you have questions about my rate feel free to ask.
        Spoiler:- DD stuff:



  19. #19
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    I changed up the team now. A new Cresselia set has been chosen to support the team. Dugtrio took Zoroark's spot as the goddamn Heatran killer, and Victini is using Expert Belt.
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  20. #20
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    I'll be bumping this thread, guys.
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