Derailed vs Already Bad Characters: Which is worse?

[marioluigifan05]

TBH, I hated both Ash and Brock's dub voices during DP. I've only gotten used to Ash's voice since BW. XD.

Brock's PUSA voice actually started out my favorite of all of them in the BF (tied with Jessie's), and then in DP became my worst...I don't know what the voice director did, but it was tough to get used for me, because Brock's voice got so much deeper. Ash's started out my worst in BF, he only got worse in the first 2 seasons of DP, then improved in the latter two, and now he's tolerable in BW.

I feel poor Brock was pushed to the sidelines TOO much in the DP arc, I guess. You're right, he wasn't as WACKY before. That may be it. I feel he didn't have enough depth to his character there (I sound like Cilan now...XD). That's my main gripe with DP's characterization of him. It's what's been happening with TRio right now in BW (the whole lack of screen-time issue). I wish the JPN writers would really try to avoid doing that.

The maid episode was one of the BEST episodes for DP Brock. I really, really liked him there. They should've done more eps like that...

Now, c'mon guys lets not bash Brock. In fact, I propose that nobody hints or mentions any specific names so that nobody gets upset and starts a flamewar. You should consider adding that to the first post marioluigi . So non-specifically in general I'd say that characters that are bad from the start are worse. At least derailed characters by definition had a solid foundation to begin with, so that the writers always have the option to return to that foundation if they find themselves stagnating the character. On the other hand, a character that has a bad start already has a greater uphill battle to redeem themselves and gain a positive fanbase. In short, both can improve or worsen, but existing characters usually already have a wealth of things for them to work with.

Done.


DP Brock bash thread in disguise.

It's sad because I do like DP Brock occasionally, but the whole Croagunk jabbing thing (that wasn't funny to me for some reason), the Pokemon they gave him, the spotlight taken from him to an extreme degree...it's a bit depressing. They could've done so much better with his character.

DP Trio bash thread in disguise

I agree 100%. Perhaps if DP had much fewer episodes, he wouldn't have seemed AS bad.

[Dwail8023]

DP Trio bash thread in disguise

I agree 100%. Perhaps if DP had much fewer episodes, he wouldn't have seemed AS bad.

In retrospect, I think that would've helped. Less attention on Dawn and Ash would be a plus, too.

[OceanicLanturn]

In retrospect, I think that would've helped. Less attention on Dawn and Ash would be a plus, too.

On Bulbapedia's DP thread, it was said that DP was more plot driven and less episodes were dedicated to Ash and Dawn when compared to past sagas.

Eh AG Brock stood out less than DP since Brock had to compete for a tiny little screentime with Mays annoying little brother. Brock's DP team also had great personality, despite being a bit static. Crogaunk, who looks tough outside, but inside is caring. A good example is when he smiled when Pachirisu recovered in the episode where Pachirisu got sick due to electricity buildup. The Crogaunk vs Toxicroak rivalry was also a refreshing touch. Happily was the happy-go-lucky baby Pokemon with incredible strength. Sudowoodo is Brock's second-in-command, and babies Happiny too.

Overall I think Brock's DP team had more screentime than Brock.

[Dwail8023]

On Bulbapedia's DP thread, it was said that DP was more plot driven and less episodes were dedicated to Ash and Dawn when compared to past sagas.

Eh AG Brock stood out less than DP since Brock had to compete for a tiny little screentime with Mays annoying little brother. Brock's DP team also had great personality, despite being a bit static. Crogaunk, who looks tough outside, but inside is caring. A good example is when he smiled when Pachirisu recovered in the episode where Pachirisu got sick due to electricity buildup. The Crogaunk vs Toxicroak rivalry was also a refreshing touch. Happily was the happy-go-lucky baby Pokemon with incredible strength. Sudowoodo is Brock's second-in-command, and babies Happiny too.

Overall I think Brock's DP team had more screentime than Brock.

It's all subjective. I thought AG Brock had a fairly strong Pokemon team in comparison to DP Brock, and he was still pretty well-balanced. The compare between him and Max, though, that was a bit jarring.

DP was plot driven, but character chemistry was severely lacking during the arc to me. His Pokemon team DID have personality, but the team itself was pretty...weak, to say the least.

Bulbapedia has a lot of opinions I disagree with. XD.

[OceanicLanturn]

It's all subjective. I thought AG Brock had a fairly strong Pokemon team in comparison to DP Brock, and he was still pretty well-balanced. The compare between him and Max, though, that was a bit jarring.

DP was plot driven, but character chemistry was severely lacking during the arc to me. His Pokemon team DID have personality, but the team itself was pretty...weak, to say the least.

Bulbapedia has a lot of opinions I disagree with. XD.

Haha, feel free to disagree.

Though Max and Brock kind of did have to compete for screentime. They're both supporting characters in the cast. I'm not comparing those two, but in an *insert number* of episodes, those two will have to compete for their centric episodes. In this case Ash/May took up many. The problem is that the writers don't know how to juggle episode distribution well. It all comes down to who gets the better end of the stick between the two who got the bad end of the deal, which would be Max.

I'm gonna disagree about his team being weak though. Call this DEM, but Crogaunk OHKO Toxicroak who ran through Gary's team. Happiny also stopped a Magnezone or Metagross dead in its tracks, and could've thrown it if Brock wasn't so distracted with flirting with Officer Jenny.

[Dwail8023]

Haha, feel free to disagree.

Though Max and Brock kind of did have to compete for screentime. They're both supporting characters in the cast. I'm not comparing those two, but in an *insert number* of episodes, those two will have to compete for their centric episodes. In this case Ash/May took up many. The problem is that the writers don't know how to juggle episode distribution well. It all comes down to who gets the better end of the stick between the two who got the bad end of the deal, which would be Max.

I'm gonna disagree about his team being weak though. Call this DEM, but Crogaunk OHKO Toxicroak who ran through Gary's team. Happiny also stopped a Magnezone or Metagross dead in its tracks, and could've thrown it if Brock wasn't so distracted with flirting with Officer Jenny.

Honestly, I think the English dub really ruined my impression of the DP arc for some reason. XD.

I wish I could find eps subbed of the arc. I've found multiple BW subs, but I can't find anything pre-BW subbed anymore. XD.

Anyway, I'll admit, you're right about Brock's DP team. I think I was just stereotyping based on appearance of those Pokemon. I do remember his Happiny had super-strength and that was hilarious. I've never liked his Croagunk or the poison-jab thing, though. Maybe it'll grow on me if I rewatch the DP arc again.

[Kokatsu]

It's all subjective. I thought AG Brock had a fairly strong Pokemon team in comparison to DP Brock, and he was still pretty well-balanced. The compare between him and Max, though, that was a bit jarring.

DP was plot driven, but character chemistry was severely lacking during the arc to me. His Pokemon team DID have personality, but the team itself was pretty...weak, to say the least.

Bulbapedia has a lot of opinions I disagree with. XD.

Imagine if AG was plot driven as well as DP but had the chemistry it had. That would of been amazing. I think the reason shows like Digimon do so well with bunch of mains is they are interesting. Like in season 1 we got Izzy being adopted TK and Matt's divorce Sora's mom issue and Tai feeling protective over his sister. The writers need to give the characters more persona and let them focus on goals at an even amount. Brock has no tournament to enter but that is no reason he could not have a traveling breeding center where he takes Pokemon and trains them and gives them back. Brock is interesting but the lack of writing him into things during DP made me sad. It was pretty much the Ash and Dawn Variety Half Hour.

I'm really hoping with the next series we get good interesting characters who are all done in an even amount,plot focus,humor and no regression and maybe a more mature series. I mean it is a kids show but out of most kid shows in Japan it has lot less mature content compared to others.

[Dwail8023]

Imagine if AG was plot driven as well as DP but had the chemistry it had. That would of been amazing. I think the reason shows like Digimon do so well with bunch of mains is they are interesting. Like in season 1 we got Izzy being adopted TK and Matt's divorce Sora's mom issue and Tai feeling protective over his sister. The writers need to give the characters more persona and let them focus on goals at an even amount. Brock has no tournament to enter but that is no reason he could not have a traveling breeding center where he takes Pokemon and trains them and gives them back. Brock is interesting but the lack of writing him into things during DP made me sad. It was pretty much the Ash and Dawn Variety Half Hour.

I'm really hoping with the next series we get good interesting characters who are all done in an even amount,plot focus,humor and no regression and maybe a more mature series. I mean it is a kids show but out of most kid shows in Japan it has lot less mature content compared to others.

Agree wholeheartedly on all points.

Also, LOL @ Variety Half Hour.

[Encyclopika]

Inviting bashers, I see.

//CLOSED