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Thread: Unpopular opinions you have about the anime(READ THE FIRST POST)

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    I would have respond earlier, but my post got accidentally deleted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    Oh please no. What would Misty do in Hoenn? Contests?
    I could have seen them expanding on what was established with Whirl Cup expanding on career through water based events providing alternative in promoting new pokemon and have something else on table for people to enjoy in.
    -Do more with her pokemon and learn how to bond with them on closer level like its case with Iris.
    -Have her involved with villain arc which was heavily linked with water/fire type making sense for dedicated water trainer to play role in there.
    -have her gain knowledge from other one type specialists as mentioned before
    -contests are possibility too, but on occasional basis serving more as stepping stone to develop flexible, defensive style helping her in future career.

    Also if by any chance May still joined cast this could had soil ground for new type of chemistry in cast making me believe that AG would be imbued with more energy and life within such set up, offering many interpretations to build on relation between companions and make things more exciting.

    If character wasn't explored enough having potential to be done more through continuation im personally always in favor of instead of discarding have invest more into him enriching his past, story and personality.

    Dunno i always thought AG would have been more fun to follow if this had happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    People already didn't care for Misty in Johto, so it would have been even worse for her in Hoenn. Although assuming she was written better it might have been different.
    Can't say i ever got such impression. You mean those same people which caused backlash when Misty was replaced, demanding for her return as main ever since? People which complained for years about exit, positively received increase of her focus in second half of Johto getting her own arc, her role in chronicles and AG cameos eagerly waiting to see her again?

    I have hard time believing how "people"didn't cared when i see exact opposite with bad reputation of certain saga=/=affecting their appreciation for characters.

    Likewise writers already wrote better for Misty in Master Quest giving her development and focus on her goals, being carried through specials after leaving. So im of view how her handling would be even better following writer overall improvement in way show, pokemon teams and characters were treated in AG which was step up in certain areas over way this things used to be handled before.

    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    All the big changes for AG all happened as a direct result of how poorly received Johto was in its original run.
    Regardless of whether Johto was poorly or positively received biggest change which happened in Hoenn(addition of contests) was result of marketing and game promotion influencing in what direction things will go. Pokemon started to be more of marketing tool and oriented toward games slowly in Johto standing in way of ex head writer wish to treat anime as family oriented series aimed at several age groups. Therefore producers wish to make it more based on games was only transferred to AG series being main reason behind its changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    He literally quit the show because he felt that he couldn't do with the Pokemon anime what he wanted. I think that accounts to being disappointed with it.
    He couldn't do with anime what he wanted since from very start. It wasn't in Johto, but pretty much from start already in Kanto when Shudo got into clash with director and other writers about his own ideas and way in which show should be written, what role should TR have and what should happen with main protagonists.

    This issues were there from start only deepening problem over time and limiting Shudo liberty, thus increasing frustration about way in which show should be constructed.

    Also for record he was in charge of doing series construction for first half of Johto region deciding what should happen there. Which was in my opinion inferior compared to later half, especially during Master Quest which had may arcs, good development for Ash and sidekicks being better plot based.

    EDIT:
    Speaking of character replacing when i look at other shows which instead of discarding, invest more into characters building on what they established before about stories knowing how to do continuation without losing steam i keep wandering why not have Pokemon do the same?
    Maybe its just me, but i would rather have pokemon be more like One Piece, Naruto, Winx etc. Not to have same mature content, but more in sense of having constant, continuity based storyline with characters we grew up growing in new, fresh directions gradually developing instead of getting constantly new ones being deprived of chances to ever get stable cast.

    Whether its popular or unpopular personally i don't support cast replacing not seeing any point on constantly adding new companions if all development and story writers started about them, experience they gained, pokemon etc is going to end up unfinished leaving cast and going way of previous characters ending forgotten and buried in past. It makes it useless for me to grow attached to characters anymore when its known from start how they will end up, damages continuity and series reputation, giving us in end shallow story and practically erased continuity at start of every new generation.

    I surely don't see any point in this making me ask myself when its time to draw line and say stop? How many more new characters we need to receive, when there exist potential to do many interesting things with previous ones already having background and predisposition to receive sequel, advance their dreams in more profine way already having experience and developed relationship with Ash and others allowing for its build up?
    Personally i know i would be more interesting to follow story of already somewhat developed character going on bigger things regardless of its Misty, May, Brock, Dawn or Iris, and see in what new exciting directions writers can take them. As opposite to overused predictable formula of constantly replacing characters like they are on assembly line replacing them in half of development eventually fading away never to be seen again.

    Nevertheless how to expect seeing this show move forward instead of having messed up plot, inconsistent development and "status quo", when every time opportunity to do build up on already existing friendship Ash established with current companions and already developed story which could be carried over to next region taking things forward gets flushed down the toilet once characters gets replaced taking away loyalty and eagerness in staying tune toward this anime?

    But hey that's just me finding there exist alternative to this formula and issue of constant cycling which in longer run brings nothing positive.

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    ^Going off what I think you are trying to say....your point is made sort of invalid based on what happened to brock over time. They kept him, and became a boring and basically souless shell of his OS self. Keeping any characyer around too long and that will happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by yuoke View Post
    ^Going off what I think you are trying to say....your point is made sort of invalid based on what happened to brock over time. They kept him, and became a boring and basically souless shell of his OS self. Keeping any characyer around too long and that will happen.
    Not really. Is Ash boring? Not when he's subjected to different things. Ash doesn't get boring(atleast to most people, making a general statement is considered wrong here lol) despite him being around for these many years because his character is undergoing a constant change. he meets different rivals, interact with them, meets different types of Gym Leaders and is subjected to character development.

    Brock has become stale in DP because they didn't know what to do with him. Had his character been written in a way that he was in fact facing some kind of conflict in the form of a rival, a challenge or something similar he could have been more interesting.

    Pokemonfan132's post comes with an underlying assumption that the writers write the old characters well enough to make them not boring. Which I agree is not happening in the canon.

    What he also says is that Misty can be written in a similar way. Instead of writing her off, they could have simply added more conflict to her goal than simply tagging along with Ash and say 'Hey, i like Water Pokemon'. He's saying that new characters are in fact not needed.

    To be honest, even I am sick of new characters coming every generation too. I am already in a dilemma between Pokeshipping and Pearlshipping...if these people bring that Kalos girl...I'm going to die writing harem fanfics all my life. :x

    (The above paragraph is not meant to be taken seriously)

    Anyway, the old characters disappearing into nothingness a.k.a Johto or Cerulean Gym is just getting annoying. But I think Pokemon will be this way. They are meant to promote the games and the girls in it...hence they have to make new characters every gen. I guess there's no helping it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yuoke View Post
    ^Going off what I think you are trying to say....your point is made sort of invalid based on what happened to brock over time. They kept him, and became a boring and basically souless shell of his OS self. Keeping any characyer around too long and that will happen.
    Dracoflare was already kind enough to address real issue, so ill just add on what he said.

    Reason why Brock didn't receive acceptable amount of development wasn't because he stayed for long time, but because writers didn't had right plans or incentive to go forward, with his character starting to lose purpose eventually. His passive goals of being breeder didn't offered many outlets and possibilities to be expanded upon considering how character was never much interested into battling, training or entering competitions. And to compensate for that issue writers didn't injected alternate conflicts and ways to measure character growth and keep him more prominent.

    There are plenty long running shows just like pokemon out there liker Dragon ball, Naruto, Bleach One Piece, Ben 10, Winx etc.which keep character for long periods of time and tell fun story without things becoming stale. Where writers rather than constant cycling invest more in established characters exploring on their personalities and interactions changing it to keep things fresh, have them go through deeper growth and introduce meaningful obstacles and things from past which influence their story in longer run.

    And those which do replace characters occasionally like Bakugan, Inazuma Eleven, Beyblade etc are good examples where popular older characters are revived at some point to receive sequel and help advance story when their own story could be fit within current show frames. And as such their popularity is expand on wider group of fans.

    Its only pokemon where writing staff is ignorant to recognize benefit behind this.

    Furthermore we cannot base someone faith on other characters and what happened with them(this case Brock), because how prominent he is going to be and in what way his/her story will go largely depends on his backstory, career choice, flexibility of story and purpose build around itself.

    I see sayings how its better to have someone leave before he becomes "stale". To, what? See new character taking his place becoming stale as well?

    "Broken" character can be fixed becoming enjoyable again by fixing mistakes and refurbishing appeal they used to have among viewers through innovative writing and new subplots.
    Pointless to say how this is highly subjective thing of a matter depending on personal preference and individual criteria if he/she will find someone boring or interesting.

    But in longer ruin its much harder to repair damaged and messed up storyline without stable cast, on going plot which is extended across regions and strong following keeping ties with history if you constant replace characters starting from scratch , aka reset. Rather than picking up from where it was stopped doing continuation which reflects negatively on Ash character and story too due to no familiar face and establish history, friendship between therm with sharing history, flashbacks and ties with ex sagas bringing more continuity and what Ash accomplished in past until now.

    With approach "out with old, in with new" writers don't have any need or motivation from investing more in characters they work with,doing only most basic things which necessitate minimum of their effort and before you know it protagonist is gone and forgotten(like it never existed or had impact on story) leaving us with product which is called "unfinished character".

    As such demanding immediately replacement wont solve any issue with writers sweeping issues under the rug instead of directly confronting them with same faith happening with new one only deepening flaws from which this anime is suffering. And effectively stopping pokemon series from becoming better written and oriented toward better quality.

    Keeping already established characters allows for continuation of his/her story going through more substantial growth being refreshing breath of fresh air from usual formula we got used to. As oppose to constantly bringing new companions which go through basic, formulaic development leaving unfinished in half of their run deprived of chance to go on bigger, better things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yuoke View Post
    ^Going off what I think you are trying to say....your point is made sort of invalid based on what happened to brock over time. They kept him, and became a boring and basically souless shell of his OS self. Keeping any characyer around too long and that will happen.
    Brock isn't an indication of how other people would have been handled. Also, writer problem, not character problem.

    There, Pokemon fan 132's point in less than 20 words :P
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    Quote Originally Posted by marioluigifan05 View Post
    Brock isn't an indication of how other people would have been handled. Also, writer problem, not character problem.

    There, Pokemon fan 132's point in less than 20 words :P
    Why is it not an indication? It's all the same writers, so what is to indicate that the writing would be better if any other character stayed for a bunch of sagas?
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    Quote Originally Posted by marioluigifan05 View Post
    There, Pokemon fan 132's point in less than 20 words :P
    I really laughed out loud when I read that. He does have a habit of elaborating his point...

    And yuoke...I hope you read Pokemonfan132's post...he did explain it:x

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    I don't know if this is unpopular or not, but I am slowly starting to get the feeling it is because of all the Iris bashing.... Anyways, I think Iris is the best out of all the girls that Ash has traveled with so far. I like her personality the most and I think she had the best character development out of all the girls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil133 View Post
    I don't know if this is unpopular or not, but I am slowly starting to get the feeling it is because of all the Iris bashing.... Anyways, I think Iris is the best out of all the girls that Ash has traveled with so far. I like her personality the most and I think she had the best character development out of all the girls.
    I beg to differ..but every one has their opinion...so I will respect yours but I will also state why I disagree with your opinion.

    I would have agreed if you have said she had the best character development in Best Wishes. But you have said "out of all girls" which is where we differ.

    The most character development she had was in the Drayden Arc, the episode when she bonds with Excadrill, then her bonding with Dragonite..and a bit in the upcoming episode...yes she is a good character. In fact the amount of development she got in a rushed saga like Best Wishes is commendable. But after watching DP where Dawn got the same amount of focus as Ash himself did....I can't say "of all the girls". The amount of development Dawn got, starting from a girl who simply wants to be a top coordinator like her mother to someone who actually made it to the top 2 was very good.

    But..yes Dawn got a huge amount of episodes and a huge amount of focus. And given the number of episodes Iris got, the development the writers gave her was very good. In fact, one can say she's the most developed character among the BW trio. The Drayden arc was especially good. I liked how she calmed that Hydreigon and helped her childhood friend Shobu(don't know her English name...don't ask why), then the battle with Drayden. Yes, Iris was well developed for a rushed saga like BW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracoflare View Post
    The amount of development Dawn got, starting from a girl who simply wants to be a top coordinator like her mother to someone who actually made it to the top 2 was very good.
    Like you are saying, the development Dawn got was all about Dawn becoming a better coordinator. I mean it was alright, she became better at Pokemon battles and came up with new contest techniques but character wise she got barely any development. This is different with Iris since her development episodes were actually focused on her as a character and not just her as a trainer. This is why I think Iris had much better character development than Dawn, simply because Iris' character got actually developed and not just her battling skills.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracoflare View Post
    Not really. Is Ash boring? Not when he's subjected to different things. Ash doesn't get boring(atleast to most people, making a general statement is considered wrong here lol) despite him being around for these many years because his character is undergoing a constant change. he meets different rivals, interact with them, meets different types of Gym Leaders and is subjected to character development.

    Brock has become stale in DP because they didn't know what to do with him. Had his character been written in a way that he was in fact facing some kind of conflict in the form of a rival, a challenge or something similar he could have been more interesting.

    Pokemonfan132's post comes with an underlying assumption that the writers write the old characters well enough to make them not boring. Which I agree is not happening in the canon.

    What he also says is that Misty can be written in a similar way. Instead of writing her off, they could have simply added more conflict to her goal than simply tagging along with Ash and say 'Hey, i like Water Pokemon'. He's saying that new characters are in fact not needed.

    To be honest, even I am sick of new characters coming every generation too. I am already in a dilemma between Pokeshipping and Pearlshipping...if these people bring that Kalos girl...I'm going to die writing harem fanfics all my life. :x

    (The above paragraph is not meant to be taken seriously)

    Anyway, the old characters disappearing into nothingness a.k.a Johto or Cerulean Gym is just getting annoying. But I think Pokemon will be this way. They are meant to promote the games and the girls in it...hence they have to make new characters every gen. I guess there's no helping it.
    To answer your "is Ash boring" question, yes, at least as far as I'm concerned. Just a unpopular opinion of mine. Through the entire DP saga, the main people I thought were boring or overstaying their welcome were the surviving OS characters. That's Ash, Brock, and Team Rocket. Not everyone finds Ash not boring, and dare I say I find many of his interactions with new generation characters forced, flat, or just a poor rehash be in Gym Leaders, rivals, or even traveling friends. Of course it's all just a matter of opinion, a unpopular one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil133 View Post
    Like you are saying, the development Dawn got was all about Dawn becoming a better coordinator. I mean it was alright, she became better at Pokemon battles and came up with new contest techniques but character wise she got barely any development. This is different with Iris since her development episodes were actually focused on her as a character and not just her as a trainer. This is why I think Iris had much better character development than Dawn, simply because Iris' character got actually developed and not just her battling skills.
    When did Iris get character development? I haven't seen any. The fight with Ash might cause some minor character development, but she acts pretty much the same as she always has




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    Quote Originally Posted by yuoke View Post
    Why is it not an indication? It's all the same writers, so what is to indicate that the writing would be better if any other character stayed for a bunch of sagas?
    I enjoyed brock in kanto johto and even in hoenn. It was in sinnoh where it was like where they dropped brock even before he was out of the show. The writers didnt want to bother with brock and dawn overshadowed Brock and even ash in some cases. Brock's obsession with girls, his vast pokemon knowledge and his skills in cooking added stability to his character. Brock could have been handled better in dp. They should have gave him rivals or let him meet his co-breeders like suzie. There was not many notable brock centered episodes in dp. Lots of long running shows have the same group of characters from the beginning but how they are handled makes the show what it is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFonz View Post
    When did Iris get character development? I haven't seen any. The fight with Ash might cause some minor character development, but she acts pretty much the same as she always has
    Let's compare Iris watching Ash's first gym to the last gym. She was indifferent and weirded by Ash's strange methods in battle with relying on a type disadvantage-having Pokemon against Pansage, by the end of it she's impressed but hides it behind a haughty facade. Now let's look at Roxie's Gym Battle, Iris is so fired up and wanting Ash to succeed she goes and gets painted up and puts on a show to cheer him on and helps him just when he's about to quit. She even went and got snowgear to watch Brycen's Gym battle and support him instead of simply skipping the gym.

    Next up, there's her rivalry with Georgia if you think back to the debut episode you realize Iris and Georgia had fairly one-dimensional interactions toward each other both simply displayed negativity toward each other. However at the end of the Club Battle and after winning they have a talk before parting, Georgia begins to gain a little respect for Iris after seeing her win the tournament and Iris displays no ill-feelings toward Georgia but says she won't get arrogant after winning the Club Battle. At the Clubsplosion Georgia roots for Iris to win and Iris wishes for Georgia to do good so she can battle her. Later on at the Vanilluxe episode, Georgia tells Iris to take care of her Vannilluxe and Vannilluxe is the first Ice-type Iris fears that she finally is totally okay with being around. Signaling she's improved with interacting with Ice-type Pokemon and developed from her own fear in a way. Next at the Junior Cup finals she agrees with Georgia she didn't win but her Dragonite and at the end before departing the two display the most rivalry like situation among each other. Georgia looks forward to seeing how Dragonite will change(for better or for worse) and she plans to power-up so she may face Iris once again in the future. Georgia and Iris are rivals, so naturally they will clash at times but Georgia and Iris's rivalry, without a doubt, is the most developed rivalry of BW so far and that's it's, imo, the best rivalry of BW. Which is why I'm disappointed Georgia's appearance or possibility of one is no where in hindsight with what Da! has presented thus far.

    Next, Dragonite and Excadrill go back to one of her major flaws. "Not being able to understand her Pokemon." You'll notice in the flashbacks we got at Opelucid Academy Iris overworked Fraxure and Drayden called her out on this. She did the same thing with Excadrill which caused him to go stationary on her. After she managed to get Excadrill to come out of his shell(literally and with Cilan's intervention) she was able to understand his feelings better. This later came to play in the Episode N episode in which Excadrill battles Seviper and tires out and Iris is eager to continue but puts him back into his Poke Ball and decides not to push him too far.

    She then utilizes this once more, this time with an actual Dragon-type Pokemon, an unruly Dragonite that she captures. One of her goals of being a Dragon Master is to "Understand the hearts of Dragons" so she used what she got from the Drill Buster episode to get Dragonite to understand her with Cynthia's help, it was no cigar unfortunately as the Pokemon reverted back to its same old habits after a little while against Dawn. Later on when she battled Drayden and Dragonite was defeated Drayden makes a small cryptic comment about Dragonite having a "Very interesting past....." showing Dragonite has motives behind not trusting humans too well at the beginning. Whether or not these will be explored is doubtful, but since Iris was able to understand him a bit better after that battle and work with him more she grew to understand his heart more.

    As I said before, she used what she learned from her Village Matriarch to help an emotional distraught Dragon that hadn't eaten in a long time(Deino) and calm down a raging Dragon(Hydreigon). That's why she's pretty much the most developed character of BW to me. Unfortunately people tend to not care or look too much into her development because they only see "rARRARWRR IRIS GOT A DRAGONITE, THAT'S SO UNFAIR TO PRECIOUS BABBY ASH!!111" Even though this Dragonite hasn't won any battles at all directly under her control. I think Excadrill could have done in Beartic and Mamoswine if Iris had replaced Dragonite with him in the Junior Cup, Excadrill be a better match against a Mamoswine and is much faster and Excadrill would be better to deal with a Krookodile too. Also has super-effective Focus Blast for Krookodile and Mamoswine(Metal Claw too I might add) and a plethora of resistances.

    Even her Axew, Dragonite and Excadrill have gotten character development. Axew when battling Golett was running, screaming, crying mess when backed into a corner. Axew when battling Garchomp calmly got up and encouraged Iris he could continue to battle and Iris believed so, they connected to each other's hearts in a way. I've already mentioned Dragonite and Excadrill, no need to bring them up again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil133 View Post
    Like you are saying, the development Dawn got was all about Dawn becoming a better coordinator. I mean it was alright, she became better at Pokemon battles and came up with new contest techniques but character wise she got barely any development. This is different with Iris since her development episodes were actually focused on her as a character and not just her as a trainer. This is why I think Iris had much better character development than Dawn, simply because Iris' character got actually developed and not just her battling skills.
    What development has Dawn gotten? I'm talking about "character" development, no Dawn becoming a stronger trainer is not character development. That's something that happens to nearly every character on this show. Dawn might have gotten the most focus of all the Pokegirls, but she is by far, the least developed Pokegirl to travel with Ash and among one of the least developed main characters of this whole show. She became a better Coordinator, but what did she really get character wise? Nothing really. She was saddened by losing during her "spirit-breaking" arc. in early DP, but did she change or develop from it? No. She hits rock bottom, climbs back up and is largely the same person she was before after defeating May the Wallace Cup. If you took that arc. out, you wouldn't miss a thing. In the end she remained mostly the same. She changes but she stays the exact same.
    Last edited by Doryuzu; 8th June 2013 at 5:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doryuzu View Post
    What development has Dawn gotten? I'm talking about "character" development, no Dawn becoming a stronger trainer is not character development. That's something that happens to nearly every character on this show.
    What character development has Dawn gotten? I honestly have no idea. Like I said Dawn had barely any character development. Most development she got was battle wise and I agree with you that is not the same as character development.

    Dawn might have gotten the most focus of all the Pokegirls, but she is by far, the least developed Pokegirl to travel with Ash and among one of the least developed main characters of this whole show. She became a better Coordinator, but what did she really get character wise? Nothing really. She was saddened by losing during her "spirit-breaking" arc. in early DP, but did she change or develop from it? No. She hits rock bottom, climbs back up and is largely the same person she was before after defeating May the Wallace Cup. If you took that arc. out, you wouldn't miss a thing. In the end she remained mostly the same. She changes but she stays the exact same.
    You're right, she really had the least amount of character development out of all the Pokegirls (I like that term btw). Again, this also why I like Iris much more because she actually got character development and not just "battle" development.

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    Well, in my opinion May is the most developed girl. She grew from being a girl unsure of what to do and scared of Pokémon to a great Coordinator who respects and loves Pokémon. In fact, I dare to say that she's one of the most developed characters ever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil133 View Post
    What character development has Dawn gotten? I honestly have no idea. Like I said Dawn had barely any character development. Most development she got was battle wise and I agree with you that is not the same as character development.



    You're right, she really had the least amount of character development out of all the Pokegirls (I like that term btw). Again, this also why I like Iris much more because she actually got character development and not just "battle" development.
    I didn't realize the difference between character development and "battle" development. For now the Dawn-fanboy in me will try defending that because the writers focused too much on her "battle" development, her character development sucked. But doesn't that leave Ash in the same boat? I mean, ever since Misty left...I haven't seen any such character development. It's all about being a Pokemon trainer. His way of thinking was the same back then and now and throughout AG and DP. (In BW he became a joke lol)

    Now, this also justifies "Platinum Fan"'s reply to my comment on Ash is boring. Maybe he finds Ash boring because he's basically the same. But....uh, I am not sure. I thought he changed a lot even as a character when he met Paul.

    And I agree with Cresselia that May was well developed as character. Most of her contest arc concentrated on her confidence as a coordinator than her skill. She wasn't fond of Pokemon at first but grew up well.
    Last edited by Alfred the Second; 8th June 2013 at 6:48 PM.

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    Honestly, character development and the Pokemon Anime tend to go together like oil and water. In that I don't see any real change and knowing that the Anime's not ending anytime soon, any "true change" for the character akin to that of A:TLA or Korra would mean that the show's ending.

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    I thought Op. Tempest should have been TRs last appearance. In fact, I would have been okay with Tempest being the final episode, period.
    Tracey is my favorite companion, but everyone knew that. Max is a close second.
    I actually like Burgundy as a character, just not how she's treated.
    I'm still not that big of a fan of Drew or Harley.
    The best opening is the Orange Islands one, not the first.
    Da is not funny.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brownie View Post
    I thought Op. Tempest should have been TRs last appearance. In fact, I would have been okay with Tempest being the final episode, period.
    Tracey is my favorite companion, but everyone knew that. Max is a close second.
    I actually like Burgundy as a character, just not how she's treated.
    I'm still not that big of a fan of Drew or Harley.
    The best opening is the Orange Islands one, not the first.
    Da is not funny.
    People might not agree but Burgundy's a great character. Granted she always complains about losing but there are subtle changes in her attitude. One thing that BW did right was handling characters till season 1. Georgia, Burgundy were both good to have and perhaps the only reasons I can still re-watch the Don Battle episodes.

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  21. #1321
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    Well, in my opinion May is the most developed girl. She grew from being a girl unsure of what to do and scared of Pokémon to a great Coordinator who respects and loves Pokémon. In fact, I dare to say that she's one of the most developed characters ever.

    Tottaly this

    For me May still got best character development out of pokemon character
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirtle_007 View Post
    Faith on humanity: Restored

    I thought I was the only BW fan over here, and I totally agree with 00poke_maniac about DP too

    Anyway, talking about the girls:
    - I actually wasn't so fond about May's Torchic evolving, yes, in AG times, it's moveset was .... awful, and yes, it was a "symbol" of her "maturity" and blah blah blah but I don't really like Blaziken as a Pokémon
    - I didn't liked May's team as a whole, too ... Bulbasaur was a nice twist and promoted FR/LG, but Munchlax, Squirtle and Eevee were too much, I mean, the "Hoenn Princess" just had 3 Hoenn Pokémon, the rest were Kanto and Sinnoh Pokémon
    - I prefer BW to DP as well. DP is my least favorite saga in the whole anime, especially in the English dub.

    - I hated Brock's DP dub voice. Thankfully Bill Rogers has improved dramatically in BW, but he still CANNOT yell or flirt as Brock. Stuart was way better.
    Last edited by PokemonNation2000; 10th June 2013 at 12:38 AM.
    Opinions Regarding the Pokémon:
    1. Anime: OS > AG > BW > DP > XY
    2. Movies: OS = AG > DP = BW = XY
    3. English Dub: 4Kids Entertainment/TAJ Productions (EP001-EP276; AG001-AG020) = 4Kids Entertainment (AG021-AG145) = TPCi/SDI Media (The Origin)/Very Good > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (BW)/Poor > PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions (AG146-AG192)/Very Poor > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (XY) = PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions/DuArt Film & Video (DP)/Atrocious
    4. Games: XY > BW1 > BW2 > RSE > GSC > Y > HGSS > DP > RBG
    5. Pokémon: The Origin: Excellent: 93/100.
    6. Manga: RS > RB > Y > FRLG > XY > BW > E > DP > GSC
    "It's like with each new Generation, Dogasu becomes an even bigger idiot than he was the last Generation." - Kalos Adventurer

  23. #1323
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    Well, in my opinion May is the most developed girl. She grew from being a girl unsure of what to do and scared of Pokémon to a great Coordinator who respects and loves Pokémon. In fact, I dare to say that she's one of the most developed characters ever.
    Got to disagree as a fan of Iris. I think Dawn is more developed that May, from a personal standpoint.

    - Dawn starts out headstrong about becoming a top-coordinator.
    - In part, this is fueled by a longing to come out of the shadow of her mother's success.
    - On her way, she proves to be a bit inexperienced in just about anything.
    - Tries to capture a Buneary: Fails.
    - Tries to capture a Pachirisu: Doesn't know what to do with it, and therefore releases it, but recaptures it anyway.
    - Gets into a losing streak in which she even starts to doubt her own future as a coordinator.
    - Fights a gym leader in order to see what the other side is like.
    - Gets a grip and starts back up again after getting a peptalk from May.
    - Has trouble handling a new powerhouse, which costs her a contest in a really shameful way: Charging through the judges desk.
    - Her starter refuses to evolve, and shortly after she needs to let her star-[read Swift]-contender go because of pingpong.
    - Dawn is getting to a downperiod again, but thankfully, mommy cheers her up, saying that she needs to believe in herself (but proceeds to own her with her Glameow/Umbreon)...
    - Meanwhile: Ash is winning tournaments left and right, while Dawn is still sucky.
    - Dawn is tested by a rival in a sense that isn't 'I can plow through you within time-limit'-May-style. Ursula addresses that Dawn can't win outside of appeals.
    - This sets off a training regimen, which ends up with Dawn beating the crap out of Ursula's Pokemon in the Grand Festival.
    - Ow, talking about the Grand Festival, she gets runner-up after that big dry spell - And thereby succesfully climbs out of her mothers shadows and becomes a 'semi-top coordinator' in her own right.

    May's story has that: I'm learning and becoming good-quality, but Dawn's has that, and a lot of personal drama. And I'm not even a fan, but even I can see that Dawn's character was better done then May's. Whether you like either or not. That being said, I like Iris because her development has been structured, and if I didn't.. well.. There's not a whole lot other to like from Best Wishes, so I would've probably dropped out for 3 years, and lord knows I can't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracoflare View Post
    People might not agree but Burgundy's a great character. Granted she always complains about losing but there are subtle changes in her attitude. One thing that BW did right was handling characters till season 1. Georgia, Burgundy were both good to have and perhaps the only reasons I can still re-watch the Don Battle episodes.
    If Burgundy's a great character, then Ash is suddenly bustling with temperament and colors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwail8023 View Post
    - I prefer BW to DP as well. DP is my least favorite saga in the whole anime, especially in the English dub.

    - I hated Brock's DP dub voice. Thankfully Bill Rogers has improved dramatically in BW, but he still CANNOT yell or flirt as Brock. Stuart was way better.
    But Brock's not in BW.. So..? And why watch the English dub? I've never felt enticed to watch it, oh well, what ever you grew up with I guess.

    Anyway, DP is probably my second/third favorite saga, depending if you count OS as both Kanto and Johto, or separately. Yes, I like Johto over DP/AG/BW. Call me crazy, but probably some of the most memorable episodes for me are either from:
    - Kanto: Ghost of Maiden Peak, Haunted Tower, Bulbasaur's Garden, Epic Bellsprout, Pewter Gym, Celadon Gym, Saffron Gym, Cinnabar Gym, they pretty much were all epic despite the gym battles not being 'fair'.
    - Johto: I liked the Quagsire episode, the later episodes featuring Entei, Suicune, Zapdos, Articuno, Smeargle, Cyndaquill's capture and Skarmory training, the Dragon's Den-episodes, and I actually often rewatch the Whirl Cup. It's one of the few saga's where I got the feeling that Ash was just a trainer, and not some DEM-brat that got to be in the right place in the right time to be the hero, case and point the Lugia arc of the Whirl Islands mini-saga.. Ash SUCKED. No real heroism there, just raw antagonists that were doing their job right - Without other worldly ideals, plots and mumbo jumbo. Not to mention dat Olivine Gym Battle: Epic Cyndaquil.

    I mean, now we're expecting Ash to be the answer to everything when it comes to evil teams, while he's usually assisted by a stronger trainer though. It's just not realistic to me anymore.

    After that, I start looking at development, in which DP is probably better then AG. I'm not going to say that it is, but I think with all the evolutions, a good rival for Ash, and decent rivals for Dawn, and Brock getting as much or more episodes as in AG sets it above AG. At least for me.

    Come to think of it realistically. Have of the things you do in your life aren't that interesting either. Johto reflects that perfectly. In your game:
    - Started up the game, left off where I saved previously.
    - Walked into the grass, a wild Hoppip appeared.
    - It didn't do much, but my Ekans gained a bit of experience...

    And that would be an episode.
    Last edited by Locormus; 10th June 2013 at 1:08 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locormus View Post
    But Brock's not in BW.. So..? And why watch the English dub? I've never felt enticed to watch it, oh well, what ever you grew up with I guess.

    Anyway, DP is probably my second/third favorite saga, depending if you count OS as both Kanto and Johto, or separately. Yes, I like Johto over DP/AG/BW. Call me crazy, but probably some of the most memorable episodes for me are either from:
    - Kanto: Ghost of Maiden Peak, Haunted Tower, Bulbasaur's Garden, Epic Bellsprout, Pewter Gym, Celadon Gym, Saffron Gym, Cinnabar Gym, they pretty much were all epic despite the gym battles not being 'fair'.
    - Johto: I liked the Quagsire episode, the later episodes featuring Entei, Suicune, Zapdos, Articuno, Smeargle, Cyndaquill's capture and Skarmory training, the Dragon's Den-episodes, and I actually often rewatch the Whirl Cup. It's one of the few saga's where I got the feeling that Ash was just a trainer, and not some DEM-brat that got to be in the right place in the right time to be the hero, case and point the Lugia arc of the Whirl Islands mini-saga.. Ash SUCKED. No real heroism there, just raw antagonists that were doing their job right - Without other worldly ideals, plots and mumbo jumbo. Not to mention dat Olivine Gym Battle: Epic Cyndaquil.

    I mean, now we're expecting Ash to be the answer to everything when it comes to evil teams, while he's usually assisted by a stronger trainer though. It's just not realistic to me anymore.

    After that, I start looking at development, in which DP is probably better then AG. I'm not going to say that it is, but I think with all the evolutions, a good rival for Ash, and decent rivals for Dawn, and Brock getting as much or more episodes as in AG sets it above AG. At least for me.

    Come to think of it realistically. Have of the things you do in your life aren't that interesting either. Johto reflects that perfectly. In your game:
    - Started up the game, left off where I saved previously.
    - Walked into the grass, a wild Hoppip appeared.
    - It didn't do much, but my Ekans gained a bit of experience...

    And that would be an episode.
    I watch the English dub because a) I grew up with it, b) I like hearing things in my native tongue, and c) Pokémon is one of the few anime I prefer dubbed over subbed (except BF and DP, I'd be itching to see them subbed).

    By Brock being in BW, I mean a flashback of him occurring in BW116 to his Kanto and Johto days. His current VA, Bill Rogers, sounds a lot less constipated and gruff than he did in DP, so that's what I mean. He still can't yell for crap, though. Thankfully Cilan is here to stay for BW, so I don't have to hear Brock anymore.

    I really prefer AG Brock to DP Brock in many ways. Pokémon, his voice sounds much better in both dubs than in DP, he got some nice characterization, he still felt important, etc.

    Nothing wrong with that at all. I prefer Johto over AG/DP/BW as well.
    Last edited by PokemonNation2000; 10th June 2013 at 1:04 AM.
    Opinions Regarding the Pokémon:
    1. Anime: OS > AG > BW > DP > XY
    2. Movies: OS = AG > DP = BW = XY
    3. English Dub: 4Kids Entertainment/TAJ Productions (EP001-EP276; AG001-AG020) = 4Kids Entertainment (AG021-AG145) = TPCi/SDI Media (The Origin)/Very Good > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (BW)/Poor > PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions (AG146-AG192)/Very Poor > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (XY) = PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions/DuArt Film & Video (DP)/Atrocious
    4. Games: XY > BW1 > BW2 > RSE > GSC > Y > HGSS > DP > RBG
    5. Pokémon: The Origin: Excellent: 93/100.
    6. Manga: RS > RB > Y > FRLG > XY > BW > E > DP > GSC
    "It's like with each new Generation, Dogasu becomes an even bigger idiot than he was the last Generation." - Kalos Adventurer

  25. #1325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locormus View Post
    Got to disagree as a fan of Iris. I think Dawn is more developed that May, from a personal standpoint.
    To be honest, most of the characters don't change from their debut episodes anymore outside the usual. Every character gets better at training/battling and captures Pokemon throughout their run.

    What I notice now is how the main characters personalities don't change or grow much from their debut episodes. Iris and Cilan are essentially exactly the same now as they were in their debut episodes, ignoring their Pokemon. Dawn's personality itself never really changed much since her debut, the only thing that changed was her skill in contests and battling.

    It seems the writers only really develop characters through their skills in Pokemon and battling, but not their personalities anymore. It used to be the opposite when the show first started, and I think that's why some feel May developed better, as there is gradual change to her personality depending on which portion of the series you're watching.

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