I'm going to talk about when each character got flanderized:
- Ash = mainly during Sinnoh. He was at his strongest battle wise, but personality wise he was wooden
- Misty = Johto, this has been covered 1000 times by now and everyone knows what I would say anyway, so just imagine in your mind any one of my past posts and it'll do for here.
- Brock = Sinnoh. Shockingly enough, Brock was still entertaining in AG, even if he didn't do much.
- Team Rocket = Either DP or Best Wishes, or possibly both. Again, I don't think they were that bad during AG, they still had some funny moments.
- Max = Battle Frontier. In Hoenn it actually felt like the writers cared about Max and gave him episodes and a movie. Once Battle Frontier rolled along they gave up on him.
Dawn, Iris and Cilan roughly stayed the same their entire run, so I can't even say they got flanderized because their personalities never changed from their debuts. May is also the only one TO actually change and not regress. Tracey is...Tracey.
Such as being willing to think outside the box using different approach in battles like including some of Dawn contest techniques in his battles leading to development of counter shield, questioned if his way of training pokemon is only right way eventually acknowledging Paul methods growing to respect his way of training.
It was amusing for me to watch his steadiness being adamant about his way of training pokemon, moments of anger and frustration with Paul harsh and sometimes cruel methods,passionate side fighting for his beliefs etc.
I remember Ash was still that caring guy we used to follow in OS and AG putting lot of care in his pokemon like Gligar helping him about flying issues, Buizel working whole night to perfect aqua jet, Chimchar giving him helping hand when ending abandoned by Paul helping him to restore lost confidence growing in strong Infernape.
He was still funny ,sometimes naive and bratty which can be noticed in clashes he had with Paul and Dawn,he was still clueless and easy going about several things falling asleep on classes such as in Summer school, acting childish and full of himself wanting to immediately challenge gym leaders as usual regardless of they are occupied or not, caused annoyance and discredit from others(Like Angie) etc,but he was also more collected,strategic and open minded toward new ideas evolving as character.
So no, i can't say that i agree how Ash was regressed in DP because he didn't. Perhaps his characterization wasn't so eccentric and exaggerated like it used to be in OS but he was still enjoyable character for me having his quirks and imperfections while being more open minded and "grown up".
And ill probably disagree for 1000th time again. Because i didn't noticed any decline in Misty characterization period.- Misty = Johto, this has been covered 1000 times by now and everyone knows what I would say anyway, so just imagine in your mind any one of my past posts and it'll do for here.
I remember she was still tomboyish, rebellious and sarcastic, being full of spirit liking to explore. She still had that passionate love for water types, romantic side falling for cure pokemon or couples(like when she tried to pair up Genaro and Ariene from Whirl Islands), had that adventure spirit trying out new things (like failed attempt at cooking in "Sick Daze", spinarak beauty treatment when they met Aya again etc), had sarcasm, temper etc. Only real change was that she wasn't violent as much like she used to be in early days, and im fine with that because it was sign of character development beginning to mature and becoming better friend with Ash(which is why they argued less, but they still had fights,like for Totodile for example and Misty never stopped teasing him). Even outside of Misty focused episodes, you will see her playing of great with several various characters adding to dynamic in Johto.
I like growth through which she went as character coming long way since early Kanto days when she was full of insecurities and selfdoubts growing out of older sisters shadow earning their respect. Becoming more responsible and independent which was noticed during whole course of Johto being more selfcritic and tolerant toward her pokemon like Psyduck or various trainers she met on journeys. This can be especially noticed when she wanted to stay with friends but realized how its her responsibility to go back and save gym.
How she learned how to apply new strategy and develop skills as trainer still bringing comedy, fun interaction and conflict in main cast ,got over childhood trauma not being afraid of Gyarados anymore growing in light of competent and independent person.
We can see during chronicles and cameos her character grew in nice blend of older and new Misty becoming more responsible person filled with self esteem not being insecure in herself so much like she used to be while still being quirky, snarky, feisty and full of personality. While remaining that same hotheaded as well outspoken, fierce and brave character we used to know.
Ill say without doubt how Misty was one of few characters which developed in believable way while remaining equally interesting after maturity developing in nice blend of quirky and playful yet more mature character finding right balance between tomboyish and girly side.
And i believe my opinion is justified through colorful dynamics she had with several characters in Johto like Andreas, Egan, Dorian, Timmy, Sakura and her memorable tantrums, snark jokes and dash of insecurity and shyness she showed as character consistently during course of Johto series through dialogues with Ash and Brock growing attached to them a lot as person making them "new family" in her eyes. Being rollowed with highly enjoyable interactions with Tracey and Daisy in chronicles, or Ash and Max in cameos.
I wouldn't necessarily say how they gave up. I remember he still played pretty valuable role in whole two parter with ranger Solana and Deoxys, entered pokemon orientering with May Munchlax, still argued with his sister and offering moral support when she was tricked by Harley or lost contest. I still remember acting as bookworm liking to instigate ASh but also give him advices along with Brock seeing in him some sort of role model being impressed with his battling strategy especially against Tucker or Brandon.- Max = Battle Frontier. In Hoenn it actually felt like the writers cared about Max and gave him episodes and a movie. Once Battle Frontier rolled along they gave up on him.
And over time you could tell he went through some growth as character realizing how books and knowledge in theory isn't everything realizing through scrutiny of Ash and May battles how in practice you often need to improvise and come up with out of box thinking to outsmart opponent and win match.
So basically every character in this show which changed didn't grew but got "demoted" with only May going through "genuine growth"?Dawn, Iris and Cilan roughly stayed the same their entire run, so I can't even say they got flanderized because their personalities never changed from their debuts. May is also the only one TO actually change and not regress. Tracey is...Tracey.
No offense but to me this seems like use of double criteria.
Needless to say i completely disagree.
But the term flanderization is like the opposite of an improvement, its when the character gets worse or loses their prior personality. This is notable with any character who lasted a long time.
Team Plasma is incomplete without the Shadow Triad and Zinzolin.
Of course nobody cares.
"My underrated tastes are no fun at all. However that's how I am. Peace."
For example when Ash matured in Hoenn or Sinnoh he was still brash and naive, but also less impulsive reflecting maturity he went through allowing him to take mentor role on others, become more collected and strategic in battles not needing someone coaching and guidance anymore.
When Misty matured in Johto and afterwards in chronicles she was still spunky, strong willed not taking crap from anyone and playful having her quirks but she also became less insecure and aggressive reflecting growth through which she went as character learning how to be more tolerant, responsible and levelheaded proving to be positive for character when getting over issue of feeling less worthy compared to sisters, putting gym back on right track, taming Gyarados etc.
Same applies to May, we got to know her as very shy, insecure and somewhat ditzy in start but as she gradually developed she became more secure in herself realizing what she wants to do in life, stopped being shy and ditzy evolving in strong coordinator while keeping her traits still being sweet and optimistic, having big fondness for food etc.
Should we than also apply term "flanderized"for May too? Because her personality without doubt changed compared to start of Hoenn.
There is difference between character development and character derailment Cyber and changes i mentioned regarding certain characters proven to be positive and beneficial for their growth turning them in stronger, more independent persons and helped them to overcome flaws standing in their way.
Whole their core remaining untouched still having personality traits and things which defined and made them enjoyable in first place, gaining more mature angle to it.
As such character development is never a bad thing because it gives more substance to someone enriching his personality making someone more deep and realistic adding to his appeal.
RIP anime version of Glovehead. Pokemon Adventures will save you.
I'll go on ahead and skip this for now.- Misty = Johto, this has been covered 1000 times by now and everyone knows what I would say anyway, so just imagine in your mind any one of my past posts and it'll do for here.
No. Brock starting falling into the background pretty hard in mid Hoenn as welll. Aslo he did nothing in Johto or BF.- Brock = Sinnoh. Shockingly enough, Brock was still entertaining in AG, even if he didn't do much.
Johto was their signature region to be involved in some criminal activites. Sadly, that oppurtunity fell through. In I.S. they did nothing as well.- Team Rocket = Either DP or Best Wishes, or possibly both. Again, I don't think they were that bad during AG, they still had some funny moments.
I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion or a popular opinion but most cared little about Max in Hoenn as well.- Max = Battle Frontier. In Hoenn it actually felt like the writers cared about Max and gave him episodes and a movie. Once Battle Frontier rolled along they gave up on him.
Brock went from a person who wanted to be a breeder with a minor crush on nurse joys. Then he became a full blown pervert with the pipe dream of being a breeder. This occurs during like johto. Anybody who claims AG brock was any different from DP brock or that AG TRio was different from DP was just deluding themselves. You basically saw AG first and when DP didn't change at all just interpret them as worse.
Last edited by LizardonX; 21st February 2013 at 6:50 PM.
As for TRio, they had slightly better VAs in most of AG's dub, so that's one point for me (I missed James' horse-whinnying laugh, Meowth's cute charm, and Jessie's intense evil, maniacal nature). Another is that their antics began to vary more in AG, and some stories were still fresh and new at the time, kind of like how James caught Cacnea, and how he entered a Poke-ringer contest (later done again in Sinnoh). The dubbers also avoided the use of excess alliterations more in AG than in DP (that made their rhymes somewhat easier to bear), though to be fair, they were still present and the scripts weren't as faithful in AG as they were in DP.
So I prefer AG Brock to DP Brock by a large margin, but AG TRio to DP TRio a tad bit as a whole. Though, I will agree that all 4 characters were best in OS.
Last edited by PokemonNation2000; 23rd February 2013 at 4:16 AM.
All I heard from that was I liked their voices better therefore they are better characters.
Also nothing Brock had in AG>Croagunk.
I never really found Croagunk funny tbh. Some eps like the one where the Mismagius knocked them all out and Brock had the dream of Officer Jennies and Nurse Joys turning into Croagunk poison jabbing him, YES, I'll admit that was hilarious. Most of the time, ehh...seemed really forced to me.
Last edited by PokemonNation2000; 23rd February 2013 at 4:40 AM.
I meant in terms of power. Not many can beat their evolved forms owned by an evil team commander.
I never understood why the writers didn't have Brock battle more. The few times he's actually in a major battle have always been enjoyable.
We hardly ever get to see his Pokemon do anything.