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Thread: Steelix Discussion Thread

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    Default Steelix Discussion Thread

    And I am back with an all new installment of the RU series! (At least, I think it's all RU at this point, they did change up the tiers...)

    I am pleasantly surprised how the Cryogonal thread is going when compared to the some other threads about competitive discussions, and it makes me proud that something actually stimulating can come out of these when you look past the whole usage thing. So I am going to keep the ball rolling by talking about everyones favorite Iron Snake, Steelix.



    Ahh yes...the wall of death from Generation II has certainly fallen on hard times in recent years. With the competitive metagame becoming complex and more physical, Steelix has remained the same since Generation II; something that is both good and bad, but well get to that. Despite it's drop to the RU tier after spending much time in the OU/UU brackets, Steelix is still a viable defensive wall; and has some tricks up it's metal sleeves to stay relevant in the metagame if given a chance.

    So now is the tale of the tape!

    Steelix

    Type: Steel/Ground

    Abilities: Rock Head, Sturdy, Sheer Force (DW)

    HP: 75
    Atk: 85
    Def: 200
    SpA: 55
    SpD: 65
    Spe: 30

    Right away, it's core stat should jump out at you; a whopping 200 defense. It is, I believe, the second-highest defense for a pokemon in-game,barring Shuckle. That defensive stat alone is half of the reason for Steelix' uses, it can pretty much be the physical wall for 90% of the games primary hitters, barring the OU tier which could penetrate it, like Conkeldur, Breloom and Gliscor. From this it has access to an absurd amount of resistances,11 in total with two, poison and electric, having no effect what-so-ever.

    It also has 4 weaknesses, Fire, Fighting, Ground and Water, two of which that can cover Steelix' biggest drawback; Speed and Special Defense. It has a terrible speed stat (which makes sense considering the type of pokemon it is) and a fairly weak Special Defense, a max of 251 if invested with EV and IV. While it's Special Defense is it's Achilles heel, there are a myriad of ways to work around it; and to use Steelix effectively.

    One of the strangest things I see with Steelix is people making high attack sets with it. While attacking is a viable option for the iron snake thanks to a respectable 85 Atk Stat, most of the time it takes nature, EV and IV to make it very effective. For me, the best bet has always been a more defensive Steelix; so automatically there should be no investment in Atk or SpA. Speed, HP and Special Defense should be the primary point distributions.

    This is borrowing a set from the POTW that I really like as an example.

    Solid Snake Set

    Steelix @ Leftovers/Air Balloon
    Ability: Sturdy
    Nature: Careful (+SDef, -SAtk)
    EV: 252 HP, 252 SpD, 4 Spe
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Tail
    - Toxic

    The set above is a defensive one because it sets up Stealth Rocks, the best entry hazard in the game, has Dragon Tail which can disrupt baton-passers and force switch-outs, and for my money, the use of Toxic which can whittle down opponents while still getting the major stab and coverage from Earthquake. Provided that the lead for the opposing team is not something that can effectively OHKO Steelix, the set makes for a good opener to matches, laying down rocks and holding ground until a switch-out is necessary. It has enough attack power to not be taunted, and enough status-inducing power to mess with opponents.

    And that is Steelix' trick; it is a very effective physical wall and can stall a lot of teams if you are not prepared.

    Here is a set I have used in the past as well:

    Steel Block

    Steelix@ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    Nature: Careful (+SpD, -SpA)
    EV: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Atk
    -Rock Polish/Automize
    -Block
    -Ice Fang/Taunt/Toxic
    -Earthquake

    The combo of block/taunt can be devastating if you catch the opponent setting up with a defensive pokemon. Block prevents escape, and if it's on something that is not very effective against Steelix, it can mean a death sentence since it takes so much to kill the iron snake; it is especially useful against pokemon that set up, like Forettress, as well as most poison/electric types and other physical walls. Once the pokemon is blocked, using Rock Polish/Automize will double speed up, 2 hits of that would be enough to speed up significantly, effectively becoming a more viable attack option until death. the STAB for earthquake also hits hard, while Taunt/Toxic can be used for more options to mess with the opponent, or Ice Fang for more coverage, especially against grass types like Whimsicott.

    Some other effective moves that Steelix can use include Stone Edge, Gyro Ball, Curse, Rock Slide, Thunder and Fire Fang, Rest combined with Sleep Talk, Roar and Torment. There is surprisingly a lot of options available, and with good scrutiny you will notice a majority of them either have secondary effects or are primarily used for stalling pokemon, the role that Steelix is born to play. Steelix is also a very viable user for Trick Room, especially if you plan on stalling pokemon and wearing them down; the number of combinations that Toxic/Tormnent/Taunt/Block/Stealth Rock can create are great when in trick room, and can really throw a wigit into the opponents strategy.

    On the downside, Steelix is not without it's counters. Bulky Waters are the biggest threat; especially ones like Gastrodon and Cloyster, which can take the punishment and dish it out in turn. High powered physical attackers with a lot of speed or priority moves; like Conkeldurr and Gliscor, are also a problem since they hit first and hit hard. Anything with high special attack, like Volcarona, Reniculus and so forth also can rip holes into Steelix if Special Defense is not invested in, and it should be. Almost always. And even the, super-effective hits will be devastating, although thankfully Sturdy still gives a chance for set-up and making the choice move for the match.

    So there you have it, an effective pokemon that, despite not really changing much over the years, if given the right support and moveset, can be very damaging against opponents.
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  2. #2
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    For some reason Steelix is one of my favorite Pokemon. He sucks overall though.

    Don't forget the Curse / Gyro Ball set.

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    Oddly, Steelix makes good use of Sheer Force with his hopeless speed meaning Iron Head's flinch chance becomes moot. As a result, his offensive power becomes noticable.


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    The curse/gyro ball set I never used personally, which is why I left it off the list, but it's definitely viable.

    Sheer Force is a nice option too since it powers up the fangs, Iron Head, Iron Tail and Body Slam significantly, but it again makes him totally open to a sweeper or counter-attack. I found personally the best options to be wearing the opponent down slowly, but that's how I usually play Steelix.
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    Gah, just stop it! Ferrothorn does Curse + Gyro Ball better!
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    And I am back with an all new installment of the RU series! (At least, I think it's all RU at this point, they did change up the tiers...)
    Quote Originally Posted by ParaChomp View Post
    Gah, just stop it! Ferrothorn does Curse + Gyro Ball better!
    lol
    I didn't see any mention of OU.

    I love Steelix, but why does a giant metal snake have such an average attack? :/

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    Quote Originally Posted by ParaChomp View Post
    Gah, just stop it! Ferrothorn does Curse + Gyro Ball better!
    Steelix gets STAB Earthquake and Encourage Fire Fang, which 2HKOs Skarmory. Not that Steelix or Ferrothorn are very good Curse users.

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    Grass isn't a weakness.

    idk about steelix. whenever i come up against him in the subway i have no fears what so ever. He is KO'd by common special fire moves and my Garchomps +2 STAB earthquake.(maybe even without +2, not sure but it comes very close.) But getting relegated to RU might see him get some usage, 200 base defence in a tier of relative lightweights is a great asset.

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    He is one of my favourites ever, good use in Trick Room, it just needs Special Defense investment. Something like this.

    Steelix @ Life Orb
    Sassy, Sheer Force
    EVs: 170 HP/84 Def/252 SpD
    - Curse
    - Earthquake
    - Iron Head
    - Rock Slide

    Curse powers up Attack and Defense, at cost of Speed, excellent for Trick Room.
    EQ and Iron Head are STABs, and Rock Slide gives coverage.
    Also, Sheer Force works for the last two moves, having no Life Orb recoil. Just for EQ.



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    What are you trying to out run with those 4 speed EVs on the solid snake set?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LinksOcarina View Post
    From this it has access to an absurd amount of resistances,12 in total with two, poison and electric, having no effect what-so-ever.

    It also has 4 weaknesses, Fire, Fighting, Grass and Water
    It actually has 11 resistances in total. Grass and Ice hit it for normal damage. It isn't weak to Grass, I think you meant Ground.
    Anyway, I've always loved Steelix, and as I recently got into battling competitively, I've seen that it doesn't do too well. Considering that so far I have only played in the OU tier. It's a shame that there's always a better Steel type to use when it comes to OU.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Calamitу View Post
    It actually has 11 resistances in total. Grass and Ice hit it for normal damage. It isn't weak to Grass, I think you meant Ground.
    Anyway, I've always loved Steelix, and as I recently got into battling competitively, I've seen that it doesn't do too well. Considering that so far I have only played in the OU tier. It's a shame that there's always a better Steel type to use when it comes to OU.
    I did, good catch my bad.


    And that Iron Snake thing was copied from POTW...complain to those guys.
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    steelix isn't very threatening since it really can only just set up on the physical side...bring in a special attacker that resists ground, rock and steel and you're good...the special attacks don't even need to be super-effective and will still do a lot of damage consideirng how bad steelix's SD is...
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXD17 View Post
    steelix isn't very threatening since it really can only just set up on the physical side...bring in a special attacker that resists ground, rock and steel and you're good...the special attacks don't even need to be super-effective and will still do a lot of damage consideirng how bad steelix's SD is...
    There are no special sweepers that resist ground, rock, and steel, barring the awful Specs Bronzong. Still, you have a bit of a point. All Steelix can really do is stop physical HO teams (rare) in RU (nonexistant). It's not worth using to set up with Curse, because some special sweeper will just KO you or force a switch after you (possibly) KO the first foe.
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    Well, I am bumping this from page 2 for a second for one reason, recent developments.

    Basically, since Excadrill was banned from OU play, there has been speculation as to the rise of hyper offensive teams in the OU metagame because of the lack of a hard, physical counter that can hit back and take the punishment. While by no means Steelix is a viable replacement (and let's be honest, it can't compare to Excadrill) I do want to bring up a question of possible resurgence in usage for Steelix, because it is, rightfully so, one of the best counters to a physical hyper-offensive team set, soaking up huge amounts of damage barring fighting type moves and pretty much stalling hyper-offensive teams to death.

    Again it's all speculation though, you got to consider the use of rain in battle too which will dampen things as well, and the fact that most of the OU metagame is mostly hyper-offensive, meaning Steelix will still likely be outlcassed, but with this shakeup, do you think the iron snake will get some more mileage out of the players, or still be stuck in RU.

    Me, I hope it can be lifted to UU because of it's strengths, but I honestly don't think it will happen.
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    Besides sharing a type there is pretty much zero things in common between the two. Hyper Offense isn't going to rise because with screens everything on HO beats Excadrill anyway. Steelix won't slow down Hyper Offense, a team style where every Pokemon will run Ground / Fighting / Fire / Water moves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    Besides sharing a type there is pretty much zero things in common between the two. Hyper Offense isn't going to rise because with screens everything on HO beats Excadrill anyway. Steelix won't slow down Hyper Offense, a team style where every Pokemon will run Ground / Fighting / Fire / Water moves.
    Blue Harvest, trust me when I say this. Dual Screens aren't always up. All they have to do is save LO Excadrill for late game, then they literally 6-0 the HO team unless they have a strong Mach Punch user or something with Balloon.

    I am also backing up Blue Harvest with Steelix. Even an Impish 252HP/252Def Steelix will get worn down extremely quick, probably 2HKO'd by any boosted Earthquake on the team, or OHKO'd by boosted CC's. It has no reliable coverery, and with dual screens it will not kill anything. Without dual screens, it will not sweep you.


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    I just love that massive defense and decent attack. It coiuld make him really great, and he could get at least one move off thanks to sturdy. Love this guy


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamefreak View Post
    Blue Harvest, trust me when I say this. Dual Screens aren't always up. All they have to do is save LO Excadrill for late game, then they literally 6-0 the HO team unless they have a strong Mach Punch user or something with Balloon.

    I am also backing up Blue Harvest with Steelix. Even an Impish 252HP/252Def Steelix will get worn down extremely quick, probably 2HKO'd by any boosted Earthquake on the team, or OHKO'd by boosted CC's. It has no reliable coverery, and with dual screens it will not kill anything. Without dual screens, it will not sweep you.
    lol, all team types have become more viable with Excadrill gone. Not just HO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    lol, all team types have become more viable with Excadrill gone. Not just HO.
    Yeah, but HO is a team which couldn't run Gliscor, Skarmory or Bronzong. A counter is a big step foward from a shaky check.

    Usually my dual screens are gone after I sacrifice my first sweeper, or maybe the second. That isn't always enough to win the game.


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    I tried steelix once. He did pretty good with the SR + phazing set.




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    I wouldn't recommend air balloons on the phazing set. Even with a weakness to ground, I would expect 200 base defense to take an EQ. Besides, it's probably going to take more then one hit anyway.
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    Even with the 200 defense, you need to keep in mind that an Earthquake on Steelix is still a super-effective hit, so it can take 3 at most before going down, and that's if it's non-STAB with no EV's in there.

    Typically it is one of the few pokemon that can survive earthquake though that is super-effective at least.

    Air balloon though, to be honest the thought never occurred to me to use it on Steelix...
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    Steelix is THE prominent physical wall in RU.

    Totally walls Durant. Hustle-boosted +1 X-Scissor 5HKOes.


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    ive used it a few times, as a suicide lead, then i nerfed it for something better
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