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Thread: Overrated Pokemon

  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Wallrein View Post
    When it comes to competitive play that title of "legendary" really means nothing. Legendary Pokemon litter the OU tier and even lower tiers. No serious player would decide to use a legendary Pokemon strictly because it is "legendary". The title has no influence on its abilities in a battle, and therefore I personally would not say the conclusion of "using legendaries is overrated" is something you could really logically derive. But you said it was completely your opinion so I respect that :P
    Exactly this.

    I know one, but I forget. On the tip of my tongue, but can't recall who.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Wallrein View Post
    When it comes to competitive play that title of "legendary" really means nothing. Legendary Pokemon litter the OU tier and even lower tiers. No serious player would decide to use a legendary Pokemon strictly because it is "legendary". The title has no influence on its abilities in a battle, and therefore I personally would not say the conclusion of "using legendaries is overrated" is something you could really logically derive. But you said it was completely your opinion so I respect that :P
    I second this. For example, Articuno. Just look at it. Even though it has a legendary status, its wayyyy down into the depths into NU, its offensive stats are just horrible, and coupled with a major weakness to SR, it absolutely sucks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDaikenki View Post
    I can only think of 3, Charizard, Terrakion, and Jirachi
    No one thinks Charizard is good lol, and I have yet to find Terrakion and Jirachi to be overrated. Personally they have both lived up to everything for me and I haven't seen evidence that they are "overrated".

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDaikenki View Post
    I can only think of 3, Charizard, Terrakion, and Jirachi
    No, Terrakion is excellent. 129 attack, 108 speed, and rock/fighting STAB make it an absolute monster. Very few pokemon resist both Close Combat and Stone Edge, making it have excellent STAB coverage. With a choice scarf, it can outrun any dragon dance or quiver dance boosted pokemon and OHKO them, with maybe the exception of a multiscale dragonite. With a choice band, even Skarmory is scared to swap into it's powerful Close Combats, and with Substitute/Swords Dance, Rock Gem Stone Edge demolishes even the high defense of Gliscor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Chaos View Post
    I find Venusaur to be a rather overrated Pokemon. Sure it outspeeds almost the entire metagame under sun, but its crappy movepool and 4-moveslot syndrome make it so that it's either easy to revenge, unable to cover all threats, or simply not have enough power. While it does have bulk, I don't see how Sun alone can make this Pokemon used as much as it is in OU, especially in this metagame.
    Easy to revenge kill? Are you kidding? That thing is way to fast for revenge killing. You have to send in something that walls it.

    Personally, I find Venusaur to be a real pain in the rear to face. Double Speed, Attack, and Special attack are what it makes it so deadly. It may suffer from the moveslot syndrome, but Grass/Fire/Poison also has some surprisingly good coverage. Part of what makes it so deadly is you also never know what it's running. Should you send in Latios, hoping it doesn't have Sludge Bomb or Sleep Powder, or should you send in Heatran in hopes of it not having Earthquake?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachmac View Post
    No, Terrakion is excellent. 129 attack, 108 speed, and rock/fighting STAB make it an absolute monster. Very few pokemon resist both Close Combat and Stone Edge, making it have excellent STAB coverage. With a choice scarf, it can outrun any dragon dance or quiver dance boosted pokemon and OHKO them, with maybe the exception of a multiscale dragonite. With a choice band, even Skarmory is scared to swap into it's powerful Close Combats, and with Substitute/Swords Dance, Rock Gem Stone Edge demolishes even the high defense of Gliscor.Easy to revenge kill? Are you kidding? That thing is way to fast for revenge killing. You have to send in something that walls it.
    Focus sashed Cacturne/Weavile would like a word with ya
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDaikenki View Post
    Focus sashed Cacturne/Weavile would like a word with ya
    Besides that focus sash is a pretty risky item. Unless it's on Magic Guard Alakazam, you don't want to rely on the risk. Besides that, it's not easy to fit ether of those onto a team. Neither of them are OU for a reason.

    And can Caturne OHKO Venusaur? I don't think it can, but the damage calculator I normally use isn't working.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachmac View Post
    Besides that focus sash is a pretty risky item. Unless it's on Magic Guard Alakazam, you don't want to rely on the risk. Besides that, it's not easy to fit ether of those onto a team. Neither of them are OU for a reason.

    And can Caturne OHKO Venusaur? I don't think it can, but the damage calculator I normally use isn't working.
    Hey bro, if you look at what he was quoting he was clearly talking about how you said terrakion was to fast to revenge at which point I start wondering how fast cacturne is

    I think Breloom is overrated, if the opponent has a team that mostly outspeeds it, it has a good chance it might never set up


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonicwari View Post
    Hey bro, if you look at what he was quoting he was clearly talking about how you said terrakion was to fast to revenge at which point I start wondering how fast cacturne is

    I think Breloom is overrated, if the opponent has a team that mostly outspeeds it, it has a good chance it might never set up
    He was quoting my post, and in it, I said Venusaur was difficult to revenge kill.

    Also, Cacturne learns sucker punch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonicwari View Post
    Hey bro, if you look at what he was quoting he was clearly talking about how you said terrakion was to fast to revenge at which point I start wondering how fast cacturne is

    I think Breloom is overrated, if the opponent has a team that mostly outspeeds it, it has a good chance it might never set up
    Omg Breloom. It sucks for me. Its so hard for it to set up, and when it does, it still isnt able to KO a lot of things...and it falls to Volcorona very easily.
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    Quote Originally Posted by justinjiaxinghu View Post
    Omg Breloom. It sucks for me. Its so hard for it to set up, and when it does, it still isnt able to KO a lot of things...and it falls to Volcorona very easily.
    I've found it rather easy to set up. Just start with spore or substitute, depending on the set. And only listing one counter doesn't cut it.

    Also, the one-counter argument has annoyed me since the beginning of time itself...okay, so it loses to Volc. Big deal. Blaziken loses to Slowbro, and look where it is now. Kyogre loses to Ferrothorn. Darkrai losses to choice scarf Primape. If you're going to argue that a pokemon is bad, at least say why it's bad, not just "it loses to this pokemon in particular".

    Though, besides the use of spore, the guy is relatively easy to check. You just need an offensive pokemon who resist fighting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDaikenki View Post
    Focus sashed Cacturne/Weavile would like a word with ya
    I'm sorry, but if you're relying on those to revenge a +2/2/2 Venusaur, you deserve to lose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachmac View Post
    I've found it rather easy to set up. Just start with spore or substitute, depending on the set. And only listing one counter doesn't cut it.

    Also, the one-counter argument has annoyed me since the beginning of time itself...okay, so it loses to Volc. Big deal. Blaziken loses to Slowbro, and look where it is now. Kyogre loses to Ferrothorn. Darkrai losses to choice scarf Primape. If you're going to argue that a pokemon is bad, at least say why it's bad, not just "it loses to this pokemon in particular".

    Though, besides the use of spore, the guy is relatively easy to check. You just need an offensive pokemon who resist fighting.
    Exactly. Every pokemon has counters, but that doesn't mean it's bad.

    Anyway, I think Breloom can be a huge pain in the *** for unprepared teams, but if you're prepared for it, it's relatively easy to handle. If you have a offensive pokemon that outspeeds (not that hard) and isn't weak to fighting, you can check it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agonist View Post
    I'm sorry, but if you're relying on those to revenge a +2/2/2 Venusaur, you deserve to lose.
    so far, I haven't. and who said anything about venusaur. I have two pokémon on my main team to counter a bulky grass type
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachmac View Post
    He was quoting my post, and in it, I said Venusaur was difficult to revenge kill.

    Also, Cacturne learns sucker punch.
    He actually cut off the entire paragraph stating anything about Venusaur, so if you only read what he is quoting it looks like he is talking about Terrakion. But if you go back to your post, you'll notice he snuck in a paragraph from the Venusaur topic that doesn't have the word Cenusaur in it anywhere...

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDaikenki View Post
    so far, I haven't. and who said anything about venusaur. I have two pokémon on my main team to counter a bulky grass type
    But if you look at this post I'm still convinced he was talking about revenging Terrakion....

    As far as Breloom goes all you need is a sleep fodder and any dragon with a secondary typing to resist fighting type moves, which isn't hard at all in ou. Or make your team outspeed breloom, which isn't hard to do either with a more offensive team (a lot of bulky/ wallish pokemon can do it to)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonicwari View Post
    Hey bro, if you look at what he was quoting he was clearly talking about how you said terrakion was to fast to revenge at which point I start wondering how fast cacturne is

    I think Breloom is overrated, if the opponent has a team that mostly outspeeds it, it has a good chance it might never set up
    In many cases speed is hardly an issue for Breloom. Putting the opponent to sleep with 100% accurate sleep move in Spore allows for easy set up and from there a crazy powerful Mach Punch will proceed to decimate the opponent. Obviously Breloom isn't going to 6-0 teams as you should have something to take the hits, but once those things are weakened or taken out though is when it does what it does.

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    The trick to using Breloom seems to just be weakening the enemy team. Latios can check it if it's healthy...but if it's at 50% health or under, it actually is KOed by +2 mach punch.

    Seems like a good cleaner for a volt turn team to me, as pretty much ever member of the opposing team will be weak by the late game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonicwari View Post
    He actually cut off the entire paragraph stating anything about Venusaur, so if you only read what he is quoting it looks like he is talking about Terrakion. But if you go back to your post, you'll notice he snuck in a paragraph from the Venusaur topic that doesn't have the word Cenusaur in it anywhere...



    But if you look at this post I'm still convinced he was talking about revenging Terrakion....

    As far as Breloom goes all you need is a sleep fodder and any dragon with a secondary typing to resist fighting type moves, which isn't hard at all in ou. Or make your team outspeed breloom, which isn't hard to do either with a more offensive team (a lot of bulky/ wallish pokemon can do it to)
    Anything that has good speed and special attack *cough Espeon* is also good for taking him down. Also, I loved using breloom, my favorite set has to be the sub punch set.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonicwari View Post
    He actually cut off the entire paragraph stating anything about Venusaur, so if you only read what he is quoting it looks like he is talking about Terrakion. But if you go back to your post, you'll notice he snuck in a paragraph from the Venusaur topic that doesn't have the word Cenusaur in it anywhere...



    But if you look at this post I'm still convinced he was talking about revenging Terrakion....

    As far as Breloom goes all you need is a sleep fodder and any dragon with a secondary typing to resist fighting type moves, which isn't hard at all in ou. Or make your team outspeed breloom, which isn't hard to do either with a more offensive team (a lot of bulky/ wallish pokemon can do it to)
    Anything that has good speed and special attack *cough Espeon* is also good for taking him down. Also, I loved using breloom, my favorite set has to be the sub punch set.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachmac View Post
    I've found it rather easy to set up. Just start with spore or substitute, depending on the set. And only listing one counter doesn't cut it.

    Also, the one-counter argument has annoyed me since the beginning of time itself...okay, so it loses to Volc. Big deal. Blaziken loses to Slowbro, and look where it is now. Kyogre loses to Ferrothorn. Darkrai losses to choice scarf Primape. If you're going to argue that a pokemon is bad, at least say why it's bad, not just "it loses to this pokemon in particular".

    Though, besides the use of spore, the guy is relatively easy to check. You just need an offensive pokemon who resist fighting.
    Ok, I shall list more counters to Breloom.
    1) Volcorona
    2) Venasaur
    3) Latios
    4) Latias
    5) Espeon
    6) Landorus-I (Specially Based)
    ...and more. Anyways, moving off of Breloom.
    I've also found Jolteon hard to use. It's in OU, but why? I'm actually not very sure what role it has...
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    Quote Originally Posted by justinjiaxinghu View Post
    Ok, I shall list more counters to Breloom.
    1) Volcorona
    2) Venasaur
    3) Latios
    4) Latias
    5) Espeon
    6) Landorus-I (Specially Based)
    ...and more. Anyways, moving off of Breloom.
    I've also found Jolteon hard to use. It's in OU, but why? I'm actually not very sure what role it has...
    Espeon can't safely switch into Adamant Breloom's Bullet Seed and then survive a Mach Punch. Neither can Landorus-I, or Latios if it has already fallen below ~90% or Latias below ~80%. Breloom is strongth, very strongth.

    I agree with you on the Jolteon thing. I don't really here much talk of it being great and what not but the fact that it is in OU and I have really never found much good use for it might let it fall into the overrated category.

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    Considering 39% of all Jolteon run specs and 24% run life orb as of last month with over 75% of all Jolteon running volt switch, I'd say it would be for the abuse of a really fast hard hitting volt switcher. To be fair though, Jolteon is the 36 th on the usage ladder, so it's not like anyone is overhyping it.

    I've also never really been a fan of Lucario, sure it has good mixed attacking stats Nd moves that compensate for it's speed, but it's just not bulky enough for that speed stat IMO.


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    Quote Originally Posted by John Wallrein View Post
    Espeon can't safely switch into Adamant Breloom's Bullet Seed and then survive a Mach Punch. Neither can Landorus-I, or Latios if it has already fallen below ~90% or Latias below ~80%. Breloom is strongth, very strongth.

    I agree with you on the Jolteon thing. I don't really here much talk of it being great and what not but the fact that it is in OU and I have really never found much good use for it might let it fall into the overrated category.
    Ah, I see. Then Breloom does seem pretty strong. But I still cant get Breloom to work for me xD. And yeah, Lucario isn't too great either; it's too frail, and too slow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonicwari View Post
    Considering 39% of all Jolteon run specs and 24% run life orb as of last month with over 75% of all Jolteon running volt switch, I'd say it would be for the abuse of a really fast hard hitting volt switcher. To be fair though, Jolteon is the 36 th on the usage ladder, so it's not like anyone is overhyping it.
    Speaking of which, with a timid nature, it can outrun most +1 Dragonites and Gyarados, and with a modest nature, it can still outrun base 110 pokemon. Yep, a modest Jolteon is just 9 points above a timid Latios or Gengar.

    It's the definition of a speedy Volt Switcher.

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    Jolteon is in OU because it is very fast. I mean, it outspeeds a lot of Choice Scarfers designed to revenge-kill it and it has a pretty good Special Attack stat to use with it's lightning fast speed (no pun intended). Hardly anything can catch up to it, even Choice Scarfers if Jolteon is running a Modest nature, if it is running Quick Feet w/ Burn Orb. It can also use a pretty good pseudo-BoltBeam combo and Volt Turn. Pretty much the only things that can catch and KO before it Volt Switches out reliably it are Breloom and Scizor with their priority Mach Punches and those require Jolteon to have prior damage before it goes down.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orithan View Post
    Jolteon is in OU because it is very fast. I mean, it outspeeds a lot of Choice Scarfers designed to revenge-kill it and it has a pretty good Special Attack stat to use with it's lightning fast speed (no pun intended). Hardly anything can catch up to it, even Choice Scarfers if Jolteon is running a Modest nature, if it is running Quick Feet w/ Burn Orb. It can also use a pretty good pseudo-BoltBeam combo and Volt Turn. Pretty much the only things that can catch and KO before it Volt Switches out reliably it are Breloom and Scizor with their priority Mach Punches and those require Jolteon to have prior damage before it goes down.
    Even then, Mach Punch probably won't kill it without hazards, and Bullet Punch isn't very effective. The only reliable way to kill it is with Dugtrio, or by getting luck with a Ground type or something.


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