Overrated Pokemon

[PokéMaster Forever]

Will-O-Wisp Sableye is not a counter or check to Arceus-Normal either. To quote something I once wrote to my friend:

The primary method by which an excellent Übers team deals with Extreme Killer Arceus must not be through trying to burn it with the move Will-O-Wisp. Let's say there is a team like mine which has Espeon, Multiscale Lugia with Toxic and Whirlwind, as well as a physically defensive Groudon with Dragon Tail, but one of its other members, say an Arceus-Ghost, just so happens to know Will-O-Wisp. Trying to burn an Arceus-Normal with that Arceus-Ghost as a last-ditch effort to stop it from sweeping after one's Lugia and Groudon have been taken out would be fine. However, a team that relies entirely on that Arceus-Ghost's Will-O-Wisp in order to stop Arceus-Normal... in other words, a team which would be swept by an Arceus-Normal if Arceus-Ghost fails to burn it before getting taken out by it, cannot possibly be an excellent Übers team, because a team whose sole answer to Extreme Killer Arceus is a Will-O-Wisp-reliant Pokémon like Arceus-Ghost, Arceus-Steel, Arceus-Rock, and physically-defensive Giratina is, by my judgment, a team that does not have a counter or check to Arceus-Normal, and therefore automatically fails, being an average team at best, since Extreme Killer Arceus is by far the best Pokémon and most dangerous sweeper in the game. You may be able to win many battles by shutting down the opponent's Extreme Killer Arceus with Will-O-Wisp, while ocassionally having to use the move twice against one that holds a Lum Berry, but climbing the ladder and reaching #1 involves winning not just more than half the time, but doing so consistently. If you just rely on Will-O-Wisp against Arceus-Normal, you'll sooner or later find a battle in which your Will-O-Wisp user gets taken out by the opponent's Extreme Killer Arceus before you manage to burn it, and then get swept, and higher up on the ladder, this will result in you losing a number of points which would require ten or more battles to make up for... assuming Will-O-Wisp doesn't miss again within those ten battles and resulting in you falling even lower on the ladder. Also keep in mind that the probability of two Will-O-Wisps hitting in a row, which is necessary to burn a Lum Berry Arceus, is only 56%. This is one of the primary reasons why I do not consider many, if not the majority of Übers teams (including many of which created by myself in the past), to be truly excellent teams.

[justinjiaxinghu]

two justins above me with the same avatar O_O.

Overrated...........I would have to say Gengar, or at least SubDisable Gengar. He is a nice troll, but outside of PP stalling, he has trouble hitting some opponents even with unresisted coverage. The moves it use are just not cut out for PP stalling either. Especially Focus Blast with a horrible 8 pp

lol i changed mine...
Anyways, were talking 'bout Ubers? YAY! Its my favorite tier And yes, Arceus-Ghost doesnt exactly "check" Normal Arceus, as Normal Arceus' commonly run Shadow Claw to rip through Ghost types that wont give a f**k about Extremespeed. Phasers/stallers are more of a "check" as they can send Arceus away if it attempts to set up, or just Toxic/WoW it.

[PokéMaster Forever]

While Arceus-Ghost by itself cannot check Arceus-Normal as already-mentioned, its Jolly Swords Dance set actually becomes a very effective countermeasure against Arceus-Normal when paired with Choice Scarf Terrakion. Contrary to popular beliefs, Jolly Choice Scarf Terrakion's Close Combat is not a guaranteed one-hit KO against even the frailest variant of Extreme Killer Arceus, rendering its efforts to revenge-kill Arceus-Normal possibly a failure as Extreme Killer Arceus gets the chance to KO it with either a single +2 Brick Break/Earthquake or two +2 ExtremeSpeeds while surviving a Close Combat. However, by pairing Choice Scarf Terrakion with a Jolly Swords Dance Arceus-Ghost, the latter can come in after the former has fallen and finish off Arceus-Normal with either a Brick Break or an ExtremeSpeed, depending on how much damage the opponent's Extreme Killer Arceus took from Terrakion's Close Combat (if the opponent's Arceus-Normal was taken down to ExtremeSpeed KO range by Close Combat, then it is a fast and frail variant and should be revenge-killed with ExtremeSpeed in case of a speed-tie, but if Arceus-Normal is not within ExtremeSpeed KO range, then it is a slow and bulky variant and therefore can be safely outrun and finished off by Brick Break). In fact, thanks to the fact that Team Preview shows no information about Arceus's type, then provided the opponent has not seen the type of one's Arceus yet, if the opponent chooses to use ExtremeSpeed rather than Brick Break or Earthquake against one's Terrakion, one can even switch straight into Arceus-Ghost on the second ExtremeSpeed to finish off Arceus-Normal, and therefore saving one's own Terrakion, which could be used later on in the match to deal with other Pokémon like Darkrai, Kyurem-W or Dragon Dance Rayquaza.

Note that Arceus-Ghost can also waltz into a +2 ExtremeSpeed and finish off Arceus-Normal if something can hit it hard enough on the turn it sets up, as you can see in the two following replays:

http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers2931730
http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ubers3012728

Basically, although Arceus-Ghost is not a direct check or counter to Arceus-Normal, it can contribute greatly to a team's effort in taking out that dreaded sweeper, if used creatively.

[OnceDone]

Latios isn't overrated to me, it's just that a lot of people realize it's worth.
I agree on the Jellicent though, I hardly see anyone use it right. It usually goes down after 2 or 3 moves, even 1 for the people who are clueless.

[Pookey-man]

Skarmory.

Weak stats besides defense, weak movepool, and a tail that looks like a Bidoof took a bite out of it.

[SuperDaikenki]

I can only think of 3, Charizard, Terrakion, and Jirachi

[Orithan]

Skarmory.

Weak stats besides defense, weak movepool, and a tail that looks like a Bidoof took a bite out of it.

Even with it's narrow movepool and sub-par stats as you said, Skarmory has good reason to be in OU. It's movepool, while narrow, has the all it needs to effectively to stall your team. Whirlwind is it's main way of inflicting damage, and when they have Stealth Rock, 2+ layers of Spikes and 1+ layers of Toxic Spikes on your side of the field, that's gotta hurt. Add it's great physical defense, Roost and it's own Spikes to the mix and they have a pokemon that, given the right team support, can easily cripple your team. It sure has crippled mine several times. The only things it really needs to watch out for are the numerous fire types in OU, which it doesn't fear much in the rain, Magnezone, who seems to be specifically built to counter Skarmory due to how effectve it is in destroying it, and the rare Cradlilly, who can't be phased out.

[Dr.Chaos]

I find Venusaur to be a rather overrated Pokemon. Sure it outspeeds almost the entire metagame under sun, but its crappy movepool and 4-moveslot syndrome make it so that it's either easy to revenge, unable to cover all threats, or simply not have enough power. While it does have bulk, I don't see how Sun alone can make this Pokemon used as much as it is in OU, especially in this metagame.

[zombieoverkill12]

This is completely my opinion but i find constantly using legendaries overrated. I know they're good for countering other legends but i mean does anybody try to make a decent team w/o a legend? It's possible ya know. I'd done it before. It just take some good team-building.

[John Wallrein]

This is completely my opinion but i find constantly using legendaries overrated. I know they're good for countering other legends but i mean does anybody try to make a decent team w/o a legend? It's possible ya know. I'd done it before. It just take some good team-building.

When it comes to competitive play that title of "legendary" really means nothing. Legendary Pokemon litter the OU tier and even lower tiers. No serious player would decide to use a legendary Pokemon strictly because it is "legendary". The title has no influence on its abilities in a battle, and therefore I personally would not say the conclusion of "using legendaries is overrated" is something you could really logically derive. But you said it was completely your opinion so I respect that :P

[Ghosts of the Forums]

When it comes to competitive play that title of "legendary" really means nothing. Legendary Pokemon litter the OU tier and even lower tiers. No serious player would decide to use a legendary Pokemon strictly because it is "legendary". The title has no influence on its abilities in a battle, and therefore I personally would not say the conclusion of "using legendaries is overrated" is something you could really logically derive. But you said it was completely your opinion so I respect that :P

Exactly this.

I know one, but I forget. On the tip of my tongue, but can't recall who.

[justinjiaxinghu]

When it comes to competitive play that title of "legendary" really means nothing. Legendary Pokemon litter the OU tier and even lower tiers. No serious player would decide to use a legendary Pokemon strictly because it is "legendary". The title has no influence on its abilities in a battle, and therefore I personally would not say the conclusion of "using legendaries is overrated" is something you could really logically derive. But you said it was completely your opinion so I respect that :P

I second this. For example, Articuno. Just look at it. Even though it has a legendary status, its wayyyy down into the depths into NU, its offensive stats are just horrible, and coupled with a major weakness to SR, it absolutely sucks.

[John Wallrein]

I can only think of 3, Charizard, Terrakion, and Jirachi

No one thinks Charizard is good lol, and I have yet to find Terrakion and Jirachi to be overrated. Personally they have both lived up to everything for me and I haven't seen evidence that they are "overrated".

[Zachmac]

I can only think of 3, Charizard, Terrakion, and Jirachi

No, Terrakion is excellent. 129 attack, 108 speed, and rock/fighting STAB make it an absolute monster. Very few pokemon resist both Close Combat and Stone Edge, making it have excellent STAB coverage. With a choice scarf, it can outrun any dragon dance or quiver dance boosted pokemon and OHKO them, with maybe the exception of a multiscale dragonite. With a choice band, even Skarmory is scared to swap into it's powerful Close Combats, and with Substitute/Swords Dance, Rock Gem Stone Edge demolishes even the high defense of Gliscor.

I find Venusaur to be a rather overrated Pokemon. Sure it outspeeds almost the entire metagame under sun, but its crappy movepool and 4-moveslot syndrome make it so that it's either easy to revenge, unable to cover all threats, or simply not have enough power. While it does have bulk, I don't see how Sun alone can make this Pokemon used as much as it is in OU, especially in this metagame.

Easy to revenge kill? Are you kidding? That thing is way to fast for revenge killing. You have to send in something that walls it.

Personally, I find Venusaur to be a real pain in the rear to face. Double Speed, Attack, and Special attack are what it makes it so deadly. It may suffer from the moveslot syndrome, but Grass/Fire/Poison also has some surprisingly good coverage. Part of what makes it so deadly is you also never know what it's running. Should you send in Latios, hoping it doesn't have Sludge Bomb or Sleep Powder, or should you send in Heatran in hopes of it not having Earthquake?

[SuperDaikenki]

No, Terrakion is excellent. 129 attack, 108 speed, and rock/fighting STAB make it an absolute monster. Very few pokemon resist both Close Combat and Stone Edge, making it have excellent STAB coverage. With a choice scarf, it can outrun any dragon dance or quiver dance boosted pokemon and OHKO them, with maybe the exception of a multiscale dragonite. With a choice band, even Skarmory is scared to swap into it's powerful Close Combats, and with Substitute/Swords Dance, Rock Gem Stone Edge demolishes even the high defense of Gliscor.Easy to revenge kill? Are you kidding? That thing is way to fast for revenge killing. You have to send in something that walls it.

Focus sashed Cacturne/Weavile would like a word with ya

[Zachmac]

Focus sashed Cacturne/Weavile would like a word with ya

Besides that focus sash is a pretty risky item. Unless it's on Magic Guard Alakazam, you don't want to rely on the risk. Besides that, it's not easy to fit ether of those onto a team. Neither of them are OU for a reason.

And can Caturne OHKO Venusaur? I don't think it can, but the damage calculator I normally use isn't working.

[Dragonicwari]

Besides that focus sash is a pretty risky item. Unless it's on Magic Guard Alakazam, you don't want to rely on the risk. Besides that, it's not easy to fit ether of those onto a team. Neither of them are OU for a reason.

And can Caturne OHKO Venusaur? I don't think it can, but the damage calculator I normally use isn't working.

Hey bro, if you look at what he was quoting he was clearly talking about how you said terrakion was to fast to revenge at which point I start wondering how fast cacturne is

I think Breloom is overrated, if the opponent has a team that mostly outspeeds it, it has a good chance it might never set up

[Zachmac]

Hey bro, if you look at what he was quoting he was clearly talking about how you said terrakion was to fast to revenge at which point I start wondering how fast cacturne is

I think Breloom is overrated, if the opponent has a team that mostly outspeeds it, it has a good chance it might never set up

He was quoting my post, and in it, I said Venusaur was difficult to revenge kill.

Also, Cacturne learns sucker punch.

[justinjiaxinghu]

Hey bro, if you look at what he was quoting he was clearly talking about how you said terrakion was to fast to revenge at which point I start wondering how fast cacturne is

I think Breloom is overrated, if the opponent has a team that mostly outspeeds it, it has a good chance it might never set up

Omg Breloom. It sucks for me. Its so hard for it to set up, and when it does, it still isnt able to KO a lot of things...and it falls to Volcorona very easily.

[Zachmac]

Omg Breloom. It sucks for me. Its so hard for it to set up, and when it does, it still isnt able to KO a lot of things...and it falls to Volcorona very easily.

I've found it rather easy to set up. Just start with spore or substitute, depending on the set. And only listing one counter doesn't cut it.

Also, the one-counter argument has annoyed me since the beginning of time itself...okay, so it loses to Volc. Big deal. Blaziken loses to Slowbro, and look where it is now. Kyogre loses to Ferrothorn. Darkrai losses to choice scarf Primape. If you're going to argue that a pokemon is bad, at least say why it's bad, not just "it loses to this pokemon in particular".

Though, besides the use of spore, the guy is relatively easy to check. You just need an offensive pokemon who resist fighting.