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Thread: Polarity: BW2 OU Double Weather

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    Default Polarity: BW2 OU Double Weather

    Something horrible has happened. A shift in the Earth's magnetic fields has thrown weather completely out of whack. Constant polarity shifts have caused torrential rain to replace scorching sun in a matter of seconds, and vice versa. The world of Pokemon has had to adapt to survive. Pokemon have had to learn to survive in both conditions, the blazing sun and the pouring rain, in order to continue living. For some, it is easier than others, and six of these lucky Pokemon have come together to form a team dedicated to surviving this disaster....

        Spoiler:- The process:




    Politoed @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Drizzle
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power Grass

    Some degree of weather control is necessary to survive the cataclysms caused by the polarity shift, and wide coverage is essential to handling the wide variety of now-feral Pokemon that would threaten the team. Hydro Pump is Politoed's favorite move, getting double STAB under the rain. Ice Beam stops incoming Dragons cold, very often netting a KO. Focus Blast destroys Ferrothorn that come in to take advantage of Politoed's storm. Finally, Hidden Power Grass eliminates Gastrodon. Anything shy of Base 130 Spe is too slow to escape Scarfed Politoed, so anything trying to steal provisions or supplies from this team will have to be extremely fast to do it....



    Ninetales @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Drought
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spe
    - Flamethrower
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Roar
    - Hypnosis

    Ninetales may be the weakest of the six, but it fills an extremely important role: mitigating the torrential rains caused by the disaster. Flamethrower is the best attack Ninetales has and it certainly has its uses - Ferrothorn, for example, wouldn't dream of trying anything with Ninetales staring it down. Several others are in the same boat with regard to managing Ninetales. Will-O-Wisp allows Ninetales to help its friends manage physical attackers such as Scizor and Tyranitar. Roar allows Ninetales to help Ferrothorn spread its rocks around and also affords the team some protection against set-up sweepers that would otherwise threaten them, and to scare potential threats away from the group's shelters. Hypnosis is here for when it is absolutely necessary to shut something down.



    Volcarona @ Life Orb
    Trait: Flame Body
    Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    - Quiver Dance
    - Hurricane
    - Bug Buzz
    - Fire Blast

    Volcarona has, like the others, decided it would like to survive. Deviating from its usual Sun set, Volcarona chose to try out a move it has seldom used before - Hurricane. With Hurricane, Volcarona aids the team tremendously regardless of which weather it's used with. And after a Quiver Dance, nothing wants to take a hit from it. In fact, seeing Volcarona dancing is often enough to scare off would-be threats to the team's supplies, shelter and general well-being. In the Rain, Hurricane will not miss. It becomes the moth's most dangerous weapon in a downpour and though it is out-powered by Bug Buzz it truly shines with a 30% Confuse rate as well. Bug Buzz is Volcarona's most powerful attack under the Rain and as such is the one it most often uses when the sun isn't shining. However, while the sun beats down upon the battlefield, Fire Blast becomes unbearably powerful. Even with the sun hidden behind the clouds Fire Blast will OHKO Ferrothorn without a Dance boost. Drawing power from its Life Orb, Volcarona can also OHKO the likes of Dragonite, Terrakion, Gliscor, Scizor and Landorus after Rocks damage and one Quiver Dance.



    Hydreigon @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Draco Meteor
    - Superpower
    - Fire Blast
    - Surf

    Hydreigon has also deviated from its standards in the interest of survival. No matter what it decides to unleash on an invader, it is all but guaranteed to hurt. Draco Meteor is this behemoth's most powerful move, striking with absurd Base 210 power after STAB. Superpower allows Hydreigon to aid Ninetales and Politoed by removing Tyranitar. Fire Blast is Hydreigon's pseudo STAB under the Sun and it makes many Chlorophyll sweepers wish they had decided to take their chances with the constantly-shifting climate instead of trying to rob six Pokemon working together. Surf serves the same purpose under the Rain - making specific Pokemon, such as Heatran, regret trying anything on Hydreigon's friends.



    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
    - Spikes
    - Leech Seed
    - Thunder Wave
    - Power Whip

    Ferrothorn is the crew's supporter. Constant changing of the weather can throw off many, many strategies often employed by roving bands of Pokemon, and forcing them to switch out their front lines causes some damage each time. This damage adds up quite quickly, and even renders some Pokemon, such as Dragonite, cannon fodder for the team's attackers. Ferrothorn works with Donphan in this role, dumping as many Spikes as it can. Leech Seed allows Ferrothorn to survive far easier and scares off a considerable number of threats to its friends. Thunder Wave makes Volcarona and Hydreigon's jobs easier by severely hindering any faster threats to the group's well-being. Power Whip allows Ferrothorn to do some damage of its own when it's needed and prevents those annoying Taunters from completely denying its friends and allies the contributions of this little metallic seed.



    Donphan @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
    - Rapid Spin
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Shard
    - Stealth Rock

    Donphan is the final Pokemon Politoed and Ninetales recruited for their little band of survivors. It plays a vital supporting role by spinning away the Rocks that make it more difficult for Ninetales and Volcarona to help their friends and make exerting what control over the disasters is possible nearly IMpossible. Earthquake is Donphan's best attack, its move of choice for hurting threats. Ice Shard picks off those Hydreigon and Volcarona just barely miss. Stealth Rock combines with Ferrothorn's Spikes to make other threats such as Mamoswine think twice about making trouble.


    These six have dedicated themselves to surviving the disasters in the hope that they end in the near future, but no one knows how well that will go for them....
    Last edited by loco1234; 16th February 2013 at 9:41 PM.
    "Whether Castform the Weather Pokemon can weather the weather is dependent on whether the weather that it's weathering is the proper weather for it to weather. Whether the opponent can weather the weather is also subject to whether the weather that it's weathering is the right weather to weather. Whether Castform can weather the opponent is once again dictated by the weather and whether that weather is the favorable weather for weathering. But most importantly, you should know whether there will be weather to weather rather than what weather they will be weathering and whether they can weather that weather."

    - Smogon's Castform analysis

  2. #2
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    Double weather is neat, but a pain to run

    The main thing I`m noticing is a few pokemon can come in, cause alot of damage switch out, but would require some thought.
    Mamoswine is the biggest problem i see as it can come in when you switch or kill something and OHKO tales and hydreigon, 2hko ferrothorn, donphan, and volcarona, and possible toed. However it has to play mindgames, as it doesnt like sun boosted flamethrower, power whip, surf, or any of hydreigons attacks.
    Keldeo is another problem as it outspeeds without a scarf, bar toed, and can KO them. Calm mind keldeo is especially deadly as it can boost on a switch and proceed to sweep. Ninetales is a OHKO at +1 with the sun up, i think volcarona falls into the same area, tho in the sun it cant really do anything to it. Hydreigon dies without a boost, donphan only lives from sturdy. Ferrothorn is the best resistor and hes 2hkoed at +1.
    Landorus i is another big threat but he needs rock polish to sweep. Again, he can OHKO most of the team with earth power and focus blast, bar ferrothorn and donphan because sturdy, and ice shard doesnt OHKO lando.
    Dragon dance Dragonite is another big threat as at +1 he outpaces politoed and threatens outrage, if the sun is up hes most lethal with fire punch to KO ferro, then he spams outrage. Donphan is a 2hko here to, not just from multiscale tho. Ice shard hits for around 75% average so keeping rocks up helps wit that
    Terrakion is another threat with donphan being his only check on this team. I say check because sub salac and sashed terra both live an earthquake, and hit back for between 43-51% so if spikes are out, or donphan has at least 6% damage, he can be 2hkoed, tho its unlikely, if he has 17% then its a better chance. Between close combat and stone edge, terrakion can KO everyone else, and if he gets a swords dance boost, as long as he doesnt miss is hard to come back.
    Heatran is the last big threat i see, as politoed is his only counter, donphan cant stomach a sun boosteed fire blast, again, its sturdy has to be broken.

    The problem i see is i cant suggest anyone as it will mess with the balance of the team. This is the biggest flaw with double weather teams. I will suggest Superpower>Dark Pulse on hydreigon as it will help handle heatran and tyrannitar. I would also suggest switching to a LO so hydreigon can stay in



  3. #3
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    Weather wars must be ... Fun??? LOL

    Ninetales @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Drought
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spe
    - Flamethrower
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Roar
    - Hypnosis

    Ninetales may be the weakest of the six, but it fills an extremely important role: mitigating the torrential rains caused by the disaster. Flamethrower is the best attack Ninetales has and it certainly has its uses - Ferrothorn, for example, wouldn't dream of trying anything with Ninetales staring it down. Several others are in the same boat with regard to managing Ninetales. Will-O-Wisp allows Ninetales to help its friends manage physical attackers such as Scizor and Tyranitar. Roar allows Ninetales to help Ferrothorn spread its rocks around and also affords the team some protection against set-up sweepers that would otherwise threaten them, and to scare potential threats away from the group's shelters. Hypnosis is here for when it is absolutely necessary to shut something down.
    A combo of Hypnosis and Nasty Plot can be fun on Ninetails, though, since it isn't a sweeper here, I don't recomend it. If Ninetails became a sweeper, I recomend Solarbeam as well.

    Also, if Ninetails (or Poli, for that matter) were to die, then you'd be stuck with the current wether. Say, Ninetails sets up the sun, then dies. Poli is also dead. Now, you're stuck with the current weather, letting these Pokes sweep:

    Stuck in Sun:

    Heatran
    Some others, but probably not the whole tem

    Stuck in Rain:

    Cloyster
    Thunderous (I or T)
    Scizor


    Being stuck in a single condition will wreck your team, so I reccomend Fire Fang on Donphan. Surf is already on Hydreigon, so that's done. XD

    Good luck with this (and I'll prob edit this over and over when I realize other problems XD LOL)


    Bye for now!
    Last edited by Chapter; 16th February 2013 at 6:29 PM.


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    Hey loco, this is a nice team, and is very successful for a dual weather team. Firstly, i think Donphan should use Stealth Rock>Head smash. Head smash doesnt really hit anything that absolutely, positively, needs to go down. Stealth rock is much better for it, and helps free up a space for ferrothorn to use Spikes>Stealth Rock. Thiw extra hazard will help limit mamo's survival, as well as other stuff like keldeo, and other threats mcdanger mentioned.

    I would also consider Fiery Dance>Fire Blast on Volcarona, but its up to you. You don't want your sweep ended prematurely by a miss, however, with Fiery Dance, you fail to ohko 4/0 Landorus outside sun or rain, unboosted, even with rocks, and arent guaranteed to ohko mamo with rocks up. However, with a layer of spikes up, from my suggestion, you always beat mamo.

    Thats it for now, if i see anything new, ill edit this. Good Luck with your team

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    Double weather is neat, but a pain to run
    Yeah, there's a lot of prediction in playing double weather, but it can be really fun =D. I'll definitely give Superpower a shot with LO, it seems like it'll do a lot more for me than Dark Pulse does at the moment.

    Being stuck in a single condition will wreck your team, so I reccomend HP Fire on Donphan.
    If I went for a Fire move here it'd be Fire Fang, higher Base Power and benefits from Donphan's far better Atk stat. I very nearly did use Fire Fang over Head Smash, but I liked the EdgeQuake coverage.

    i think Donphan should use Stealth Rock>Head smash.
    I'll give this a try alongside Spikes on Ferro. I do enjoy double Hazards, but I was a bit hesitant due to the lack of a spinblocker. Still, yeah, it will help a lot with things like Keldeo.

    Fiery Dance>Fire Blast on Volcarona
    I considered this, the reason I used Fire Blast is for the OHKO on Ferrothorn and Scizor with Rain up. They love to come in and they can tank Hurricane and Bug Buzz, but if I can get a couple Spikes layers up alongside the rocks Fiery Dance should work fine. I haven't run the calcs yet, but I'll test it.

    Thanks guys!
    "Whether Castform the Weather Pokemon can weather the weather is dependent on whether the weather that it's weathering is the proper weather for it to weather. Whether the opponent can weather the weather is also subject to whether the weather that it's weathering is the right weather to weather. Whether Castform can weather the opponent is once again dictated by the weather and whether that weather is the favorable weather for weathering. But most importantly, you should know whether there will be weather to weather rather than what weather they will be weathering and whether they can weather that weather."

    - Smogon's Castform analysis

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    First thing's first, I would consider switching Politoed from Scarf to Specs. ScarfToed has the particular disadvantage of having to worry a lot about switch ins, as the speed doesn't help you around those, meaning you sacrifice a lot of mobility and room for error with only a speed stat that doesn't help to get rid of too many threats in return. Another problem is that Scarf doesn't pack the power to eliminate the threats to Toed that you mentioned, namely Dragons, Ferrothorn, and Gastrodon. Dragons are actually pretty well taken care of by Politoed (all the common ones excluding Dragonite), so I'll move on to the two others you mentioned. Ferrothorn is going to shrug of a Scarf Focus Blast without too much trouble, which at best 3HKOs if Ferro has Leftoevrs (which it most likely will), thus allowing Ferrothorn to set up hazards with impunity. Here's the supporting calc:

    252 SpA Politoed Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 156-184 (44.31 - 52.27%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    Now, to contrast, if Politoed were Specs, here is the calc for that:

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Politoed Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 256-302 (72.72 - 85.79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    This means, of course, that Ferrothorn can't switch in and expect to be around for another turn, unlike Scarf where it will have a turn to do whatever it wants even if it switches in on Toed. Specs allows you to better handle Ferrothorn (not that you need Toed to much though, considering this is a part sun team).

    Now, Gastrodon is a different matter. As it can sponge your Hydro Pumps, it does have to be worried about, and Scarf can't effectively deal with it. See for yourself:

    252 SpA Politoed Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 196-232 (46 - 54.46%) -- 6.25% chance to 2HKO

    Even with a 4x effective move, you only have a minimal chance to 2HKO, meaning a more likely 3HKO in the offing. This means that Gastro will get to freely either Toxic your Toed, or just Recover off the damage. Although it will have a hard time switching in (unless of course you're stuck in Hydro Pump), it will still threaten Toed. Now, here's the Specs calc:

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Politoed Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 320-380 (75.11 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    This brings you less risk, meaning you don't have to rely on prediction as much, which you already have to worry about a lot as you're running Dual Weather. Ok, so besides taking care of the threats you listed better, Specs Toed has a lot less to worry about in terms of Pokemon that switch in. Specs Hydro Pump pretty much clears anything off the map with a layer of Stealth Rock down (or even without). To quote Smogon's Specs Politoed calcs:

    "Hydro Pump vs. 0/0 Salamence: 68.3% - 80.7%
    Hydro Pump vs. 0/0 Naive Salamence: 75.8% - 89.4%
    Hydro Pump vs. 0/0 Haxorus: 95.6% - 112.6%
    Hydro Pump vs. 0/0 Hydreigon: 63.1% - 74.5%
    Hydro Pump vs. 0/0 Rotom-W: 73.14% - 86.36%
    Hydro Pump vs. 252/252+ Deoxys-D: 63.5% - 75%"

    So for those of you who are tl;dr people, Specs Politoed is a monster, its Hydro Pump can even almost 2HKO Ferrothorn under Rain, so I would recommend it despite the speed loss, as you already have several things to deal with faster threats and not as much with switch ins.

    I second Mcdanger's changes to Hydreigon, as you have quite a few Pokemon using that coverage already, plus you need the extra coverage that Hydreigon can provide.

    The team is well built, and there aren't too many threats besides the ones already mentioned. As you said, this team requires a lot of prediction, so the main thing it will need to be good after some minor changes will be practice. Good luck!

    And to finish off,

    Quote Originally Posted by Chapter of Charizard View Post
    Being stuck in a single condition will wreck your team, so I reccomend HP Fire on Donphan.
    No, just no.
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    @miror: i think he needs to keep the scarf so he can revenge kill some things, not a lot, but its there. As i said, basically anything that gets more speed then politoed threatens to sweep. He can try scarfed latios>hydreigon but i would be worried about tyrannitar then
    and run rock slide/stone edge over head smash on donphan to preserve sturdy
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    I agree; besides, for Gastrodon, he has Ferrothorn.
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    Quote Originally Posted by azeem40 View Post
    I agree; besides, for Gastrodon, he has Ferrothorn.
    Yeah, I know, it's just that he lists things like Gastrodon as a reason he needs the move so I was just saying Specs Toed was more efficient.

    I'll kind of add a supplemental rate, because since I'm getting rid of the one revenge killer you have, I'd either agree with Danger again and say go with Scarf Latios over Hydreigon, or maybe Scarf Garchomp, and maybe add offensive Starmie as a spinner over Donphan if so.
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    I wouldn't say I need it per se, as Ferrothorn can threaten Gastrodon pretty well. I hate using status moves on a Choice set though, so I went with HP Grass.

    I'll give Specs a try over Scarf just to see how it runs, since the added power is definitely going to be nice, but then that leaves Ice Shard from Donphan as my only means of revenge-killing.
    "Whether Castform the Weather Pokemon can weather the weather is dependent on whether the weather that it's weathering is the proper weather for it to weather. Whether the opponent can weather the weather is also subject to whether the weather that it's weathering is the right weather to weather. Whether Castform can weather the opponent is once again dictated by the weather and whether that weather is the favorable weather for weathering. But most importantly, you should know whether there will be weather to weather rather than what weather they will be weathering and whether they can weather that weather."

    - Smogon's Castform analysis

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    Quote Originally Posted by loco1234 View Post
    I wouldn't say I need it per se, as Ferrothorn can threaten Gastrodon pretty well. I hate using status moves on a Choice set though, so I went with HP Grass.

    I'll give Specs a try over Scarf just to see how it runs, since the added power is definitely going to be nice, but then that leaves Ice Shard from Donphan as my only means of revenge-killing.
    In this case I'd say scarfing hydreigon. It hits 442 speed with modest, but I'd recommend going timid nature instead since it hits 486 speed and outspeeds +1 adamant haxorus. Pretty much you're not outspeeding jolly scarf moxiemence or scarfrachi. Luckily, Salamence is 2hkoed by donphan's ice shard, with donphan getting 3hkoed by mence at full health, and rachi is almost always ohkoed, with donphan getting 4-5hkoed by jirachi.

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    lol I would honestly drop Politoed for a Venusaur or some random sun sweeper and drop Hurricane on Volcarona for Giga Drain or HP Ice.

    Dual weather teams are run as a disruption weapon. Run Hail and you can mess with the opponent's Rain. Run Tyranitar and Ninetales has a bad day. Rain and Sun don't really work that way as well. Maybe Politoed is sorta self sufficient (though you are wasting its potential by not capitalizing solely on rain) but Ninetales is utter garbage unless the entire team is built to support it. As it is now your team is a reasonable Sun team if you drop Politoed lol.

    Venusaur > Politoed.

    Regardless of if you do this there are other changes.

    Stealth Rocks > Head Smash on Donphan. Yeah Head Smash OHKOs incoming Gengar and beats defensive Dnite, that's cool. But pretty much all it does. You can still do a number on both of them with Ice Shard. Ice Shard has basically unlimited PP and 2HKOs Dnite after multiscale and will always break Gengar's Substitutes. If you run rocks on Donphan you can put Spikes on Ferrothorn.


    I understand that dual-weather is a cool concept but I don't think it works with Rain + Sun. If you want to keep Rain + Sun that's fine, its your team but I don't think it will work out too well. The closest I can think of to a Pokemon that functions in sun and rain is a defensive Venusaur. Sleep Powder / Leech Seed / Giga Drain / HP Ice or something. But you already have Ferrothorn who kinda fills that role. So basically my big suggestion is to just run single weather sun, though I can understand if you don't want to.

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    I'll try the Scarf, but I'm kinda liking LO on Hydreigon.

    Yeah, I mainly decided to try dual weather because I was getting really bored of single weather. I'm looking into other combinations, Rain/Sun stood out to me because of DrizzleRona. I'm looking into Rain/Sandstorm as well, seems like heaven for Steels. In the process of testing Rocks over Head Smash, I'm liking it so far.
    "Whether Castform the Weather Pokemon can weather the weather is dependent on whether the weather that it's weathering is the proper weather for it to weather. Whether the opponent can weather the weather is also subject to whether the weather that it's weathering is the right weather to weather. Whether Castform can weather the opponent is once again dictated by the weather and whether that weather is the favorable weather for weathering. But most importantly, you should know whether there will be weather to weather rather than what weather they will be weathering and whether they can weather that weather."

    - Smogon's Castform analysis

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    Stealth Rocks > Head Smash on Donphan. Yeah Head Smash OHKOs incoming Gengar and beats defensive Dnite, that's cool. But pretty much all it does. You can still do a number on both of them with Ice Shard. Ice Shard has basically unlimited PP and 2HKOs Dnite after multiscale and will always break Gengar's Substitutes. If you run rocks on Donphan you can put Spikes on Ferrothorn.
    Hey, thats what i said!


    I understand that dual-weather is a cool concept but I don't think it works with Rain + Sun.
    it doesnt, ive tried. multiple times. the fact that they are basically polar opposite weathers means only half your team is effective really.

    as to the specstoed idea, i have to disagree miror. with a layer of spikes and stealth rock, you 2hko both ferro and gassy, and the scarf would really help to ko trouble-mons, like SD terrakion, or Specs-deo. The power boost just doesnt seem worth it, as you still outspeed a lot of pogeys. you outspeed and 2hko haxorus, non-scarved mence, deo-d, hydreigon, and rotom-w, if you factor in hazards. even with hazards, you still fail to ohko some of them, and are outsped, namely hydreigon and non-naive mence. im sorry, but i just don't see the point of that extra bit of power when that speed might determine a match.

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    Also, the lack of a Scarf User (sorry, Hydreigon really isn't a good one as he is meant to wallbreak) isn't something you want on a balanced team. Hydreigon already breaks down walls for Politoed to Revenge Kill.
    In order to understand my train of thoughts,
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    Updated. Thanks everyone!
    Last edited by loco1234; 16th February 2013 at 9:42 PM.
    "Whether Castform the Weather Pokemon can weather the weather is dependent on whether the weather that it's weathering is the proper weather for it to weather. Whether the opponent can weather the weather is also subject to whether the weather that it's weathering is the right weather to weather. Whether Castform can weather the opponent is once again dictated by the weather and whether that weather is the favorable weather for weathering. But most importantly, you should know whether there will be weather to weather rather than what weather they will be weathering and whether they can weather that weather."

    - Smogon's Castform analysis

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