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Thread: Morte Et Dabo - an OU sun team

  1. #1
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    Default Morte Et Dabo - an OU sun team

    Hey guys, me again with a new team. This team is titled "Morte Et Dabo" because 1)AA is an amazing band, and 2) this team won't take **** from top meta threats, like politoed and tyranitar. I built this team with 2 goals in mind, to make Kyurem-b a huge offensive threat, and to use sun to the fullest in a rain-dominated environment. This team may seem like its based off lavos spawn's team, and that's because it is. Deal with it.

    Preview


    Sets

    Dugtrio @Focus Sash
    - Arena Trap -
    252 Speed/ 252 atk/ 4 def
    jolly
    21 hp ivs
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Reversal
    - Stealth Rock

    Here, we have a god trapper, who works great with xatu in luring in tyranitar. And then it's like, **** you, I win. It can also check other things, like sd terrakion, heatran, volcarona, and other massive sun threats. It also happens to set up rocks, if it can find the time and xatu hasn't gotten round to it. Earthquake is very useful for nailing tyranitar, terrakion, tentacruel, etc. stone edge hits volc hard, but is mainly filler. Reversal is useful for Chansey/blissey, and 21 HP ivs gives duggy exactly 201 HP, allowing it to survive 2 seismic tosses and hit back with a full powered reversal.


    Kyurem-B @Choice Scarf
    - Teravolt -
    252 Atk/ 4 SpA/ 252 Speed
    Naive
    - Outrage
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Dragon Claw
    - Ice Beam

    The main sweeper of the team. It's also just absolutely amazing in sun. It's main counter, ferrothorn, is either afraid to come in, or is already dead due to xatu. Outrage is its most powerful attack and is actually the most powerful in the game! It 2hkoes scizor, while bullet punch can't hook, and it also 2hkoes heatran with rocks. Fusion bolt always 2hkoes, and also 2hkoes bulky jirachi. Dragon claw is for when I don't want to be locked into outrage, like early game wall breaking, and sleep talk is there to help counter sleep mons, like venusaur, breloom, and amoongus. It also has the benefit of not locking me into outrage, which is a huge plus. The given Evs allow Kyurem-b to survive an unboosted cc from terrakion, focus blast from life orb thunderus-t, secret sword from specs Keldeo, and 2 hydro pumps from specs politoed. And I don't even lose out on much, because my attack is still about equivalent to 252 terrakion. I decided to use scarf Kyurem-b, as one, I just couldn't use Latias effectively, and 2, it still hits super hard, and out speeds more problem pokes, like specslatios. Ice beam was chosen over sleep talk because with xatu, I don't need it, and this way I can lure in things like landorus-t, or I can revenge kill lando-I.


    Xatu @Rocky Helmet
    - Magic Bounce -
    248 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 SpD
    Relaxed
    Ivs: 10 speed

    - Heat Wave
    - U-turn
    - Roost
    - Toxic

    This is one of my favorite sets to use. This thing is the bane of all hazard layers, and lavos really went well with this. With 3 pokemon hating stealth rock, magic bounce is a godsend. It's extremely easy to switch into an opposing ferrothorn, and then hit it with a heat wave, or thunder wave a switch in first. Gyro ball does a pitiful 31-37% to this set, and in return ferrothorn gets damaged. Volt switch from forretress does about 27-32%, while xatu hits back with 76-91%. Amazing. And all that was max SpD/max HP sets. Roost is for obvious healing as I want xatu to stay in to take out key threats and keep rocks off my side. U turn is great for grabbing momentum, and lastly, toxic lets me stall hippowdon and get ttar into ko range.


    Heatran @Air Balloon
    - Flash Fire -
    4 hp/ 252 SpA/ 252 speed
    Timid
    - Sunny Day
    - Magma Storm
    - Solarbeam
    - HP Ice

    This set is officially my favorite set of the month! Not only does it help immensely against sun teams, it also helps beat up on hippowdon. Its super fun to troll poli as well, with sunny day switching in, and then magma trapping the switch out. Magma storm is its strongest attack, and is super fun to spam when it's not needed anymore. Solarbeam helps with getting the 2hko on politoed, hippowdon, and tyranitar.

        Spoiler:- Calcs:

    So with prior damage, I ko them all HP ice is there for filler, but helps stop garchomp and landorus and gliscor. I chose it over earth power because druggy already takes care of heatran for me.



    Ninetales @Leftovers
    - Drought -
    252 hp/ 120 Def/ 136 Speed
    Timid
    - Flamethrower
    - Sunny Day
    - Roar
    - Will-o-Wisp

    What's a sun team without ninetales? Not a very good one. Unfortunately ninetales is a terrible pogey and is a must have on this team. Out of 600+ pokemon, Gamefreak gave drought to ninetales. Idiots :/ Anyway, this is ninetales' best set, and it performs well. Sunny day tales is very good at winning the weather war. Sunny day is for those nasty switchins, like politoed or tyranitar, and helps keep my weather on the field. Will-o-Wisp allows me to cripple attackers such as dugtrio, tyranitar, and incoming dragons. 120 def Evs allows me to always survive dugtrio's earthquakes, as well as giving me some nice overall bulk, and 136 speed Evs outpaces haxorus and toxicroak, so I can cripple them with WoW. Roar allows me to phaze out incoming threats, like heatran, and allows me to phaze lum + dd dragons, such as Salamance, or dragonite.


    Venusaur @Life Orb
    - Chlorophyll -
    76 hp/ 252 SpA/ 180 speed
    Timid
    IVs: 30 Atk/ 30 Def
    - Growth
    - Giga Drain
    - HP Fire
    - Sludge Bomb

    This set is fairly self-explanatory, as I'm sure we've all seen sweeper venusaur. Anyway, I use this to sweep late game, after heatran is gone, as at +2 nothing much can really stand in the way. Growth is obvious and is the crux of the set, as getting to +2 is actually fairly easy. Giga drain was a godsend when black and white 2 came out, as it allows venusaur to get most of her health back from the life orb damage. HP fire decimates steels not named heatran. Lastly, sludge bomb provides a nice alternate STAB to use, instead of using a 75% accurate move (sleep powder). I use timid over modest, because I feel the power difference isn't as noticeable at +2 and I like outspeeding scarflatios, as I can ohko them at plus 2.

    Things I'm currently trying


    Some Logs
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou10053160 Successful X-Swish leads to a forfeit
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou10054071 a successful predict leads to a ragequit, dont bother after the guy leaves...
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou10054952 this was a little tougher, another sun team. no rain teams seen yet
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou10097565
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou10100415
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou10102919
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou10104590 - straight trolling with xatu

    So there's the team. Rate, hate, steal, it's your prerogative. I prefer rate though.
    Last edited by Klaus™; 22nd February 2013 at 11:05 PM.

  2. #2
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    Personally, I would go with Roar over Substitute/Energy Ball because those goddamn Baton Pass teams are annoying. Oh yeah, and for Phazing, because set-up sweepers are a pain to beat, especially when you have no priority. I would've gone for Sucker Punch over Reversal on Dugtrio. It allows you to kill most Latios.
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    This team looks like it will have trouble with Adamant Garchomp, which can OHKO everything on this team bar Xatu, which can do much to Garchomp in return. Venusaur is the likeliest check, but even at +2 it still may not OHKO, and Garchomp can take care of most of the other Pokemon with ease. Chomp outruns your Ninetales, Heatran, and Kyurem-B and can OHKO all of them, is outrun by Duggy and Venusaur which cannot OHKO him and he can OHKO in return (though if Dugtrio's Sash is still up, then it's a 2HKO, but Dugtrio only 3HKOs Chomp), and Xatu is 2HKO'd. I think running Air Balloon on Heatran would be the best answer (if only a temporary one) as HP Ice from Balloon Tran still KOs Garchomp, and there isn't much else you can do without changing your team, which is pretty solid otherwise. I also see either Lando-I or Lando-T both being significant threats to this team in their own ways, which can generally handle this team as long as Heatran isn't out with a +1, and Venusaur can't handle either particularly well, especially Lando-I. I think Air Balloon would also help with these two.
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    You could also use Shuca Berry to tank an Earthquake from Garchomp, surprise it, and KO with HP Ice. Also, Venusaur checks Garchomp with Sludge Bomb, but can't switch in that safely in fear of Fire Fang and Fire Blast. Ninetales is outright KOed. Dugtrio is OHKOed by Dual Chop, which can be rather common seeing that it is essentially a Dragon Claw that hits twice. Kyurem B is flat-out KOed. Yeah, Air Balloon/Shuca Berry Heatran would be nice. The advantage that Shuca Berry has it that it only activates on a ground type move, but you still have to get hit. Air Balloon provides an immunity, but if you're hit, you lose said immunity.
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    Honestly, opposing Dugtrio are pretty big problems IMO as it can basically take everything out of the team with maybe Venusaur being the exception.

    I guess what I'm tryin to say is just reinforcing the other suggestions which is a + on Air Ballon Heatran.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverangel View Post
    Personally, I would go with Roar over Substitute/Energy Ball because those goddamn Baton Pass teams are annoying. Oh yeah, and for Phazing, because set-up sweepers are a pain to beat, especially when you have no priority. I would've gone for Sucker Punch over Reversal on Dugtrio. It allows you to kill most Latios.
    maybe on roar, as if i predict, i can just roar out dugtrio, however, ninetales just isnt bulky enough to survive boosted hits to phaze. its doubtful id be in a situation where ninetales is in and the opponent is boosting. the only thing it would help against is lum berry ddnite.

    no on sucker punch too. the latis arent really a problem, as venusaur outspeeds and koes latios, and heatran walls latias to hell and back. standard sets of course.

    @miror

    yeah, garchomp is a major pain, and usually involves me losing. i just try and sacrifice and damage it as much as possible, before bringing in venusaur for the ko. air balloon seems like a great idea, and it doesnt seem life orb scores any koes that it normally wouldnt, so ill try that.

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    Yeah, but the minute Heatran is hit by any other attack, you're screwed. Shuca Berry would've been a good option, but since you're not running a defensive set, you'll probably be killed by a supereffective earthquake either way, so stick with Air Balloon if you want to keep Flame Charge Heatran.

    Kyurem Black doesn't really take advantage of the sun other than discouraging Ferrothorn switch-ins. Since Garchomp rapes you, how about Focus Sash Weavile or Mamoswine? Both can use Ice Shard, which kills non-Yache Berry Garchomp. Focus Sash Mamoswine also can set Stealth Rock for you, something practically needed in every team, as Xatu can't always get it for you. I know you may want Kyurem Black as your main sweeper, but how about Choice Band Weavile. It kills your main counter, lures in Scizor for you to kill, and is faster than Kyurem B, at the cost of frailness and less power.
    For trade:
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    With the exception of Miror, none of you really seem to know enough about the metagame to post useful rates. Please avoid posting if you don't know what you're talking about!


    Anyhow you asked me to rate but it's kind of hard because this is a passable team. Not too many obvious flaws. One big one is how weak you are to ground moves. Xatu is immune but can't take too many hits. Rock Polish Landorus (physical and special), Garchomp, etc. sweep your team like is is nothing. Kyurem-B is a nice battering ram but your team does a terrible job of wearing down the Steel types. No one is going to switch Ferrothorn in on Xatu or Ninetales so they will most likely just conserve them for the only Pokemon on your team they really handle. Since Kyurem-B's main defensive role seems to be sponging Politoed's hits why not just run a defensive Latias over it? Unlike Kyurem-B your team does a great job exterminating Latias's counters. Duggy traps Jirachi, Tyranitar, Heatran, Blissey, and Volcarona while the rest of the team helps wear down Scizor (and Duggy can even trap a Scizor locked into Pursuit or Superpower lol). Latias also helps check Landorus, Garchomp, Politoed, Terrakion etc

    Even though Life Orb Modest Heatran hits insanely hard running Timid Air Balloon might benefit your team more. This gives you an extra check against Garchomp, Landorus I and a better Dragon check. It also helps keep opposing Dugtrio from killing you as easily. Timid allows you to outrun Dragonite, Gyarados, Mamoswine, and all Breloom and gives you the edge on Scarf Terrakion at +2. You can also drop Flame Charge for Sunny Day or Solarbeam or something because without Life Orb Heatran lacks the power to sweep much. I ended up running Toxic in the last slot to hit random incoming Gyarados / Politoed / Latias / Jellicent. It also takes down Volcarona who can Morning Sun / Roost off the Fire Blast damage until you are PP stalled. You can also run a Sunny Day / Magma Storm / Solarbeam trap set to eliminate Politoed a little easier. I personally don't like Magma Storm but some others swear by it.

    On Xatu run 248 HP / 252 Defense / 8 Sp Def Relaxed with 10 Speed IVs. This allows you to take minimal damage from Ferrothorn Gyro Ball which ATM does 43.54 - 51.65%. With the slower set you only take 31.83 - 37.83%. Being slower lets you be outrun by Sp Def Heatran so you can eat a Lava Plume, then U-turn to Duggy. The extra Defense gives you around an 80% chance to survive Sash Terrakion Stone Edge so you can break its Sash and U-turn to Duggy (whereas your current spread dies about half the time). Smogon suggests the speed to outrun Breloom but it isn't doing much to you anyway. Despite the speed drop you still outrun Skarmory and Smogon standard Choice Band Tyranitar. You can also try Toxic > Thunder Wave as the residual damage from Toxic quickly puts Tyranitar in KO range for Duggy and makes sure any team that relies on Hippowdon for rocks will never succeed.

    Ninetales probably wants Roar over Sub. Roar is not to make Ninetales a dedicated defensive phaser, but instead to prevent stuff from setting up all over it. For example if a Lum Berry DD Haxorus leads against Ninetales it could potentially cripple a few Pokemon just by Dragon Dancing. Same with Dragonite, Gyarados, etc. It also gets rid of Subs and hurts Baton Pass. You can also run HP Fighting to break Heatran's Air Balloon and do some damage to Tyranitar (not much though lol). HP Rock hits Volcarona SORT OF but it's so weak and Morning Sun or Roost variants will easily recover the damage.

    Here is the importable I came out with. Pretty good team. Doesn't need many changes to be really solid!

        Spoiler:- team:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest
    Anyhow you asked me to rate but it's kind of hard because this is a passable team. Not too many obvious flaws. One big one is how weak you are to ground moves. Xatu is immune but can't take too many hits. Rock Polish Landorus (physical and special), Garchomp, etc. sweep your team like is is nothing. Kyurem-B is a nice battering ram but your team does a terrible job of wearing down the Steel types. No one is going to switch Ferrothorn in on Xatu or Ninetales so they will most likely just conserve them for the only Pokemon on your team they really handle. Since Kyurem-B's main defensive role seems to be sponging Politoed's hits why not just run a defensive Latias over it? Unlike Kyurem-B your team does a great job exterminating Latias's counters. Duggy traps Jirachi, Tyranitar, Heatran, Blissey, and Volcarona while the rest of the team helps wear down Scizor (and Duggy can even trap a Scizor locked into Pursuit or Superpower lol). Latias also helps check Landorus, Garchomp, Politoed, Terrakion etc
    Thanks BH Yeah, i notice i get ravaged by garchomp, like miror said, and other random earthquake users. Kyu-b has been amazing at wallbreaking, but its just too slow if it gets in safely and steels are gone, its pretty much gg, but no one runs without steels anymore. I will definitely try latias, as max speed varients will also help against garchomp. definitely will try it

    Even though Life Orb Modest Heatran hits insanely hard running Timid Air Balloon might benefit your team more. This gives you an extra check against Garchomp, Landorus I and a better Dragon check. It also helps keep opposing Dugtrio from killing you as easily. Timid allows you to outrun Dragonite, Gyarados, Mamoswine, and all Breloom and gives you the edge on Scarf Terrakion at +2. You can also drop Flame Charge for Sunny Day or Solarbeam or something because without Life Orb Heatran lacks the power to sweep much. You can also run a Sunny Day / Magma Storm / Solarbeam trap set to eliminate Politoed a little easier I personally don't like Magma Storm but others swear by it. I ended up running Toxic in the last slot to hit random incoming Gyarados / Politoed / Latias / Jellicent. It also takes down Volcarona who can Morning Sun / Roost off the Fire Blast damage until you are PP stalled.
    oops, meant to update the rmt with air baloon>life orb. it works wonderfully. i will definitely try this set, but im unsure, because flame charge heatran has been working so well, especially when i can set up on things that cant do anything back. however, i noticed a tendency to fall flat on its face when up against roost varients of volc(like you said) and will definitely try out toxic. the speed doesnt help if i cant ko, lol

    On Xatu run 248 HP / 252 Defense / 8 Sp Def Relaxed with 10 Speed IVs. This allows you to take minimal damage from Ferrothorn Gyro Ball which ATM does 43.54 - 51.65%. With the slower set you only take 31.83 - 37.83%. Being slower lets you be outrun by Sp Def Heatran so you can eat a Lava Plume, then U-turn to Duggy. The extra Defense gives you around an 80% chance to survive Sash Terrakion Stone Edge so you can break its Sash and U-turn to Duggy (whereas your current spread dies about half the time). Smogon suggests the speed to outrun Breloom but it isn't doing much to you anyway. Despite the speed drop you still outrun Skarmory and Smogon standard Choice Band Tyranitar. You can also try Toxic > Thunder Wave as the residual damage from Toxic quickly puts Tyranitar in KO range for Duggy and makes sure any team that relies on Hippowdon for rocks will never succeed.
    will definitely try out the ev spread. ill also try out toxic, but i like thunder wave's utility in checking incoming dragons who think xatu is set-up fodder, or volcarona who use it to set-up. Plus, heatran might end up with toxic, and tyranitar will most likely switch into it to tank a fire blast, or earth power. earth power does about 27% IIRC. I havent seen hippowdon yet while laddering, so i have no clue how well he does against my team.

    Ninetales probably wants Roar over Sub. Roar is not to make Ninetales a dedicated defensive phaser, but instead to prevent stuff from setting up all over it. For example if a Lum Berry DD Haxorus leads against Ninetales it could potentially cripple a few Pokemon just by Dragon Dancing. Same with Dragonite, Gyarados, etc. It also gets rid of Subs and hurts Baton Pass. You can also run HP Fighting to break Heatran's Air Balloon and do some damage to Tyranitar (not much though lol). HP Rock hits Volcarona SORT OF but it's so weak and Morning Sun or Roost variants will easily recover the damage.
    i will probably go roar. substitute is almost never used and i have ended up in situations where it WAS a lead lum dd dragon. it sucked so much

    Here is the importable I came out with. Pretty good team. Doesn't need many changes to be really solid!
    thanks haha! I guess lavos spawn made a really good standard for a sun team xD

        Spoiler:- team:

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    With the exception of Miror, none of you really seem to know enough about the metagame to post useful rates. Please avoid posting if you don't know what you're talking about!
    Do I really suck that much at rating?

    Back on topic. Yeah, I agree with Blue Harvest saying that you're extremely ground weak.

    About Dugtrio: Ummmmm, keep it the same. There's only two viable sets you can run anyways: one standard and one with Truant Entrainment Durant.

    About Latias: SubCM is good. Just have a pokemon ready to take a CB U-Turn from Heatran, which happens to be no one. You can substitute to avoid a KO from U-Turn, but that leaves you vulnerable to being trapped by Tyrannitar. No one on your team will enjoy Scizor's U Turn aside from Heatran, who would then lose his Air Balloon and get killed by an EQ. This set isn't bad, but I would choose Hidden Power Fire over Substitute in order to kill Scizor and other steel types not named Heatran. You'll be weak to status, but it's your choice. You can even use a double switch to Xatu to avoid the status. In the end, you just have to play Latias wisely. Oh yeah, and if you want, you could run a Dual Screens set with Psyshock/Light Screen/Reflect/Healing Wish to set up screens to let Venusaur sweep (just get Blissey, Chansey, and Heatran out of the way). Psyshock could be used over Substitute on the SubCM to kill Chansey easily, as you don't want to play mind games with Subsitute, Toxic, Calm Mind, and Seismic Toss. Healing Wish on the Dual Screens set allows you to bring a badly weakened poke to full health.

    About Xatu: Xatu beats out most of the specialized hazard setters, but would lose to pokes such as Focus Sash Terrakion and Mamoswine, who often bluff certain items in order to set hazards. Then again, they can only set up Stealth Rock. You will have to be careful around them, though, as you never know when they will set up hazards. Stealth Rock is something you will definitely dislike to have on your side of the field.

    About Heatran: Special attacking Air Balloon Heatran? Ummm.....works for me. You could consider Stealth Rock over Hidden Power Ice so you're guaranteed to have hazards on your side of the field. However, I won't be an advocate for that, as you team doesn't need hazards on the other side of the field to be great. Never mind, I just remembered Dugtrio had Stealth Rock.

    About Ninetales: Ninetales couldn't be any better, and by that, that's all it can do. Sunny Day really trolls Politoed, though.

    Venusaur: Hm, good. Just take out Chansey and Blissey first. Wait a minute....

    Threats:

    Chansey/Blissey- they can wall just about everyone on your team bar Dugtrio, who I think fails to kill them in one shot, while the pink blobs can use Toxic and outstall the mole with Wish/Protect. Psyshock over Substitute on Latias kills them without any fuss, but the SubCM may have to play nasty mind games with them, as you have to choose between Substitute to block status and Calm Mind in order to get past them. On the other hand, they have to choose between Seismic Toss to break your sub, and Toxic to pretty much guarantee your death.

    Tyrannitar- Not a huge threat, but a threat either way. Dugtrio can't switch in on anything but Stealth Rock, but can revenge kill (unless hazard are up. Latias, Xatu and Ninetales can be killed by Pursuit (or Stone Edge for the latter two) while trying to run. Venusaur has to beware of Fire Blast and Ice Beam, and Heatran won't enjoy Earthquakes or Superpower. The Expert Belt set or a Tyranniatar with a Choptle Berry can be dangerous to you. Play it safely and find a way for Dugtrio to get in to kill said Tyrannitar.

    Hippowdon- in the same vein as Blissey/Chansey, just that Venusaur can KO with Giga Drain if the hippo lacks Ice Fang. Ninetales won't like an EQ. Xatu hates Crunches. Latias won't like Toxic. Dugtrio is walled. Heatran is likely to kill with HP Ice, but if he loses his Air Balloon, he's ****ed.

    That's it for now. Can anyone do the calculations for me?

    Expert Belt Tyrannitar's supereffective moves against the whole team.

    Venusaur's Giga Drain on said Tyrannitar in sand.

    Dugtrio's maxed out Reversal against Choptle Berry Tyrannitar.

    Venusaur's Giga Drain against Specially Defensive Hippowdown.

    Heatran's Hidden Power Ice against same Hippowdon.

    Said Hippowdon's Ice Fang against Venusaur.

    I will try to get the calculations up as soon as I can.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by That Crazy Russian™ View Post
    oops, meant to update the rmt with air baloon>life orb. it works wonderfully. i will definitely try this set, but im unsure, because flame charge heatran has been working so well, especially when i can set up on things that cant do anything back. however, i noticed a tendency to fall flat on its face when up against roost varients of volc(like you said) and will definitely try out toxic. the speed doesnt help if i cant ko, lol
    Flame Charge works too. Toxic hits some stuff you have trouble with but Flame Charge gives you another sweeper. Both work.

    will definitely try out the ev spread. ill also try out toxic, but i like thunder wave's utility in checking incoming dragons who think xatu is set-up fodder, or volcarona who use it to set-up. Plus, heatran might end up with toxic, and tyranitar will most likely switch into it to tank a fire blast, or earth power. earth power does about 27% IIRC. I havent seen hippowdon yet while laddering, so i have no clue how well he does against my team.
    Twave is also good. Toxic helps get Tyranitar into KO range for Dugtrio which I liked and has REALLY good coverage with Heat Wave. Fire + Toxic screws over basically everything besides enemy Heatran and Tentacruel, and you can U-turn on them into Duggy.

    thanks haha! I guess lavos spawn made a really good standard for a sun team xD
    Nah this isn't Lavos sun. You have neither Genesect nor Victini. Give yourself some credit. This is your team.

    Quote Originally Posted by silverangel View Post
    Do I really suck that much at rating?
    No, I deleted the biggest problem rates. Yours are passable

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverangel View Post
    Expert Belt Tyrannitar's supereffective moves against the whole team.
    not doing this one because no one really uses ebelted ttar.

    Venusaur's Giga Drain on said Tyrannitar in sand.
    252SpAtk Life Orb +2 Overgrow Venusaur (Neutral) Giga Drain in Sandstorm vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Tyranitar (+SpDef): 62% - 74% (254 - 302 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    252SpAtk Life Orb Overgrow Venusaur (Neutral) Giga Drain in Sandstorm vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Tyranitar (+SpDef): 32% - 38% (132 - 156 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.

    I just did max SpD max HP because, like I said, no one uses ebelted and support tar is most common I find.
    Dugtrio's maxed out Reversal against Choptle Berry Tyrannitar.
    252Atk Dugtrio (Neutral) Reversal in Sandstorm vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Tyranitar (+Def): 105% - 124% (428 - 504 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
    Chople is a 2hko, but I outspeed and with a sash always win.

    Venusaur's Giga Drain against Specially Defensive Hippowdown.
    252SpAtk Life Orb Overgrow Venusaur (Neutral) Giga Drain vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Hippowdon (+SpDef): 56% - 66% (236 - 278 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    252SpAtk Life Orb +2 Overgrow Venusaur (Neutral) Giga Drain vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Hippowdon (+SpDef): 111% - 131% (470 - 554 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

    Heatran's Hidden Power Ice against same Hippowdon.
    252SpAtk Flash Fire Heatran (+SAtk) Hidden Power (Ice) vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Hippowdon (+SpDef): 35% - 41% (148 - 176 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.

    I just might run toxic, to catch it.
    Said Hippowdon's Ice Fang against Venusaur.

    0Atk Hippowdon (Neutral) Ice Fang vs 72HP/0Def Venusaur (Neutral): 38% - 45% (122 - 144 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.

    Decided to run 180 speed Evs because that outruns scarftios, not 252 like I thought. Extra was put in bulk

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    the calculations for Tyrannitar's supereffective moves would've still been helpful, as I can check whether the guy can be a hinderance to the team.

    (assuming Tyranitar is running the support set on Smogon with Pursuit/Fire Blast/Superpower/Stealth Rock

    4 atk Tyrannitar's crunch(or Pursuit on switching out) on Latias: 168-198 damage, 46-54%, 50% chance to 2HKO. Nasty damage to Latias if it wants to switch out and is nailed by Pursuit. Latias's Dragon Pulse can't do much in return unless she is boosted.

    Same Tyrannitar's attack on Xatu: 140-165. 43-49%. about a 2HKO after sand.

    4 atk Tyrannitar's Stone Edge on Xatu: 174-205. 52-61%. 2HKO guaranteed.

    4 atk Tyrannitar's Superpower on Heatran: 146-172 damage, 45-53%, around a 48% chance to 2HKO. Nasty damage. Heatran can do something in return though, with its Earth power.

    0 sp. atk Tyrannitar's Fire Blast on Venusaur in sand: 115-135, 36-42%, guranteed 3HKO. In sun, 170-200, 53-62%. Guaranteed 2HKO.

    that was only support Tyrannitar. you want to be careful around him.
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    He is not defensive Tyranitar weak. Well at least not any more than any other Sun team. Xatu prevents it from using Rocks and wears it down with Rocky Helmet, at which point it is usually in KO range for Dugtrio (Xatu even survives a Crunch). With Tyranitar dead sun basically auto-wins so this is one reason I suggest running Toxic on Xatu. It all but guarantees Tyranitar dies even if Duggy is unable to finish the job (though realistically it SHOULD... play well and Tyranitar should lose the weather war most of the time).

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    Yeah, I'll be trying the toxic>thunder wave, as I've had so many people recommend it it wasn't funny.

    I'm also going to try
    -magma trapper heatran
    -HP ice>HP fire
    -Latias>Kyurem-b
    -and SpD tales
    -and other ev changes and or move changes

    Some logs

    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou10088455
    Last edited by Klaus™; 19th February 2013 at 4:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by That Crazy Russian™ View Post
    Yeah, I'll be trying the toxic>thunder wave, as I've had so many people recommend it it wasn't funny.

    I'm also going to try
    -magma trapper heatran
    -HP ice>HP fire
    -Latias>Kyurem-b
    -and SpD tales
    -and other ev changes and or move changes

    Some logs

    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou10088455
    I never recommended Toxic, did I?

    Either way, nice job putting up a log. Your opponent rage-quit, which was a bit disappointing, but either way, nice job. Latias could've set up with Substitutes and Calm Minds right in front of Politoed's face. However, you did a nice job switching your teammates around to give yourself an upper hand. By the way, did you consider Dual Screens Latias? The set is here.

    Latias (F) @ Light Clay
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd / 4 def
    Timid Nature
    - Reflect
    - Light Screen
    - Psyshock/Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor
    - Healing Wish

    Venusaur can abuse Dual Screens well, using it to avoid KOs in sun and set up Growth in order to sweep. Set up Reflect so you won't be killed by the likes of Scizor and Tyrannitar first, then Light Screen. Psyshock can be used to kill Chansey and Blissey, both which wall Venusaur. However, Dragon Pulse and Draco Meteor can be used for more power. Finally, there's Healing Wish. This move is pretty awesome. It pretty much means sack-Latias-and-use-a-Full-Restore-on-any-other-pokemon-before-hazards-hit-you. Yep, hazards(which may or may not get on the field because of Xatu) deal damage after you heal. That means Ninetales can have 1% HP and be poisoned, but it's coming back with full health. It's great for screwing up an opponent after they think they've gotten rid of a major threat.

    Oh yeah, and Toxic over Thunder Wave (now I say it). I'll even give you reason. Most of your threats are the other weather inducers (Politoed, Tyrannitar, Hippowdon, Abomasnow). They're all pretty slow, and the sand inducers run more bulky sets. The others also tend for run Bulky attacking sets. What's the mortal enemy of Defensive walling pokemon? They actually all hate Toxic, as it's a death sentence. Ninetales also hates Toxic, so be careful for that.
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    SubRoost Latias isn't that hard to use lol. Duggy eliminates its counters for you, just sweep late game with it. If you can't get it to work try LO offensive Latias. Meteor / HP Fire / Psyshock / Recover. Though seriously give SubRoost another try. I used it a bit and it almost auto swept since your team slays its main counters.

    Another option is running Forretress over Xatu. This gives you Spike damage and less pressure to keep rocks away. It also gives you another Steel which lets you kinda tank Garchomp and Salamence's hits. Run something like Gyro Ball / Rapid Spin / Volt Switch / Spikes. Though you lose out on Xatu, Xatu is predictable and has a good chance of just being a free double-switch in for a ton of stuff. If you run Latias your team won't even fear rocks that much.

    Look into running HP Fire on Venusaur again. +2 Sludge Bomb or Giga Drain OHKOs literally every dragon or ground in OU. HP Fire covers Steel types that you can't touch otherwise.

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    Anyhow you asked me to rate but it's kind of hard because this is a passable team.
    This. The team looks really solid, but I'll do what I can for ya haha

    First off, I see your Xatu still has 4 EVs to spare. I'd stick them with the other 4 in SpD, personally. Or you could put them in Def for that little extra bit on both ends, since 333 HP rounds Rocks damage down already.

    Second, in terms of type weaknesses I see 3/2 to Water and Ground and 3/1 to Rock. Water, not a problem, this is a Sun team. If the sun's shining, nothing's got a Water weakness. For Ground, the Air Balloon on Heatran covers it until it pops, removing a 4x weakness for an immunity so you're probably good there too. Rock seems like a bit of a problem though. Ninetales, Xatu and Kyurem are all integral parts of this team and Stone Edge causes problems for them all. Duggy helps with that by dealing with T-Tar, but I can see Garchomp (as mentioned) and Landorus giving you fits. I can't really suggest dropping any of those 3 because it seems like they're all pretty vital, but HP Ice can deal with both if you can get it off. Heatran seems like your best bet for doing so, but I also feel like a Mamoswine would help here, possibly over... Well, I was thinking Duggy but that's your trapper... Still, better Duggy than Heatran, I'd say. Using a Sashed lead set, Mamoswine can still take T-Tar with Superpower without fearing the OHKO, retains Ice Shard for the dragons and can still drop rocks for you. Here's the set I'm thinking:

    Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Thick Fat
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    - Stealth Rock
    - Superpower
    - Ice Shard
    - Earthquake

    It's basically the Smogon standard SashSwine with Superpower over Endeavor. Endeavor's useful but it's not completely reliable here. Superpower wrecks T-Tar, Ice Shard handles Garchomp and Landorus and Earthquake is its general awesomeness. Endeavor seems like it could still work over Superpower for T-Tar, but it mandates the use of Stealth Rock, which this set can have trouble getting. When I tried it out I usually got either Endeavor or Rocks, but not both, so I changed it to Superpower for the T-Tars.

    I also suggest HP Fire for Venusaur, since Skarmory and Ferrothorn (and Forretress, come to think of it) can take your Giga Drains and mess with you in return in some way. Skarmory can phaze or just Brave Bird and Ferrothorn can Thunder Wave. Forry can carry Gyro Ball and I've seen HP Ice too, so I guess it has those since even resisted 225 Base Power hurts some.

    Right, that's all I got. Solid team!
    "Whether Castform the Weather Pokemon can weather the weather is dependent on whether the weather that it's weathering is the proper weather for it to weather. Whether the opponent can weather the weather is also subject to whether the weather that it's weathering is the right weather to weather. Whether Castform can weather the opponent is once again dictated by the weather and whether that weather is the favorable weather for weathering. But most importantly, you should know whether there will be weather to weather rather than what weather they will be weathering and whether they can weather that weather."

    - Smogon's Castform analysis

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    SubRoost Latias isn't that hard to use lol.
    maybe I'm just a bad battler than? Lol

    Though seriously give SubRoost another try. I used it a bit and it almost auto swept since your team slays its main counters.
    . Hmm, I will keep testing, though scarf Kyurem has really been going well for me.

    Another option is running Forretress over Xatu. This gives you Spike damage and less pressure to keep rocks away. It also gives you another Steel which lets you kinda tank Garchomp and Salamence's hits. Run something like Gyro Ball / Rapid Spin / Volt Switch / Spikes. Though you lose out on Xatu, Xatu is predictable and has a good chance of just being a free double-switch in for a ton of stuff. If you run Latias your team won't even fear rocks that much.
    xatu has been running perfectly, so I don't think I'll go with forry. Plus, I don't particularly want this team to end up like this team, however good it is.

    Look into running HP Fire on Venusaur again. +2 Sludge Bomb or Giga Drain OHKOs literally every dragon or ground in OU. HP Fire covers Steel types that you can't touch otherwise.
    Will keep testing, I really find myself walled by every steel in ou without HP fire now, so I will def try it.


    Quote Originally Posted by loco1234 View Post
    This. The team looks really solid, but I'll do what I can for ya haha

    First off, I see your Xatu still has 4 EVs to spare. I'd stick them with the other 4 in SpD, personally. Or you could put them in Def for that little extra bit on both ends, since 333 HP rounds Rocks damage down already.
    Oops, that was meant to be 8 SpD

    Second, in terms of type weaknesses I see 3/2 to Water and Ground and 3/1 to Rock. Water, not a problem, this is a Sun team. If the sun's shining, nothing's got a Water weakness. For Ground, the Air Balloon on Heatran covers it until it pops, removing a 4x weakness for an immunity so you're probably good there too. Rock seems like a bit of a problem though. Ninetales, Xatu and Kyurem are all integral parts of this team and Stone Edge causes problems for them all. Duggy helps with that by dealing with T-Tar, but I can see Garchomp (as mentioned) and Landorus giving you fits. I can't really suggest dropping any of those 3 because it seems like they're all pretty vital, but HP Ice can deal with both if you can get it off. Heatran seems like your best bet for doing so, but I also feel like a Mamoswine would help here, possibly over... Well, I was thinking Duggy but that's your trapper... Still, better Duggy than Heatran, I'd say. Using a Sashed lead set, Mamoswine can still take T-Tar with Superpower without fearing the OHKO, retains Ice Shard for the dragons and can still drop rocks for you. Here's the set I'm thinking:

    Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Thick Fat
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    - Stealth Rock
    - Superpower
    - Ice Shard
    - Earthquake

    It's basically the Smogon standard SashSwine with Superpower over Endeavor. Endeavor's useful but it's not completely reliable here. Superpower wrecks T-Tar, Ice Shard handles Garchomp and Landorus and Earthquake is its general awesomeness. Endeavor seems like it could still work over Superpower for T-Tar, but it mandates the use of Stealth Rock, which this set can have trouble getting. When I tried it out I usually got either Endeavor or Rocks, but not both, so I changed it to Superpower for the T-Tars.
    hey, I don't honestly think ill use this, as without duggy, I'm not guaranteed to predict and ko heatran. I'd rather have that speed and trapping over memos ice shard tbh. Besides, scarf kyurem koes non scarved garchomp and landorus anyway, and with air balloon tran to beat them they've become much less of a threat.

    I also suggest HP Fire for Venusaur, since Skarmory and Ferrothorn (and Forretress, come to think of it) can take your Giga Drains and mess with you in return in some way. Skarmory can phaze or just Brave Bird and Ferrothorn can Thunder Wave. Forry can carry Gyro Ball and I've seen HP Ice too, so I guess it has those since even resisted 225 Base Power hurts some.

    Right, that's all I got. Solid team!
    Thanks, and again, will def try out HP fire again.
    Last edited by Klaus™; 20th February 2013 at 2:22 AM.

  20. #20
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    ^LOL

    Yeah, don't switch Xatu out. Venusaur can soak up Toxic Spikes for you. Latias, Xatu, and Air Balloon Heatran don't give a **** about spikes, and only Ninatales hates hazards.

    You're still using scarf Kyurem B? Nah, use Latias, who doesn't care much for hazards and can provide Healing Wish support, which can help the team out if Xatu goes down. Cresselia can also be considered for Healing Wish or Dual Screens support.
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    Why would I use healing wish to sacrifice a pokemon that is intended to sweep late game?...

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    Healing Wish only goes on Dual Screens Latias or support Cresselia, and is designed to let a sweeper have a second shot at sweeping or to let a weakened pokemon come back. If you do run Healing Wish on Latias, you'll run a Dual Screens set designed to support the team. Healing Wish Cresselia is used to tank hits. If you don't intend to run Dual Screens Latias or Cresselia, no need to worry about Healing Wish. Just saying it's a great support move.
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    Healing wish LO Latias is an ok set. Draco Meteor / HP Fire / Recover / Healing Wish. This allows you to keep Ninetales alive and regenerate a damaged Dugtrio or Venusaur.

  24. #24
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    landorus-t really owns this team, stone edge for xatu, kyurem and ninetales, earthquake for the other pokemon AND immune to duggys trapping, oooh man. i also noticed that a very popular combination of terrakion and choice banded ttar could be very hard for this team to stop as well, due to their combination of rock and figthing attacks, along with their very high atk stats, duggy can only take on one at best because of how much damage they do. i think you could try the hp ice forry over xatu to try and stop these problem pokemon, also giving the team rapid spin, it might seem crazy to have forreh in sun, but hey ive seen it work ;D

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    landorus-t is outsped by venu in the sun and cant take a +2 giga drain. it also fails to ko with earthquake, i think.

    ninetales can burn it on the switch in

    kyurem outspeeds it and ohkoes.

    landorus-t is not a threat :/

    terrakion is trapped easily by duggy, outsped, and koed. if i come in off a kill, i can take out ttar as well. that combo is also not a threat.

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