View Poll Results: Is remakes of past generations the new canon?

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  • Yes.

    30 68.18%
  • No, the originals are the true canon

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  • Doesn't really matter.

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Thread: Are Pokemon Remakes the true canon?

  1. #1
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    Default Are Pokemon Remakes the true canon?

    Hey guys. So a while ago, I was with my friend, who is also a fellow pokemon fan, and while talking about it in general, we got into the topic of possible Generation 3 remakes. I then realized something, and questioned "Is the original game the true canon of the pokemon videogames, or is the remakes the new canon?"

    We all know that the third game in the past games (Platinum for gen 4 because Cynthia in B/W mentioned Giratina, Yellow is assumed in Gen 1 because Red in Gen 2 had all 3 starters and pikachu, Emerald in Gen 3 since its storyline is ruby and saphire stories combined. Heard nothing if Crystal for Gen 2 is the canon of Gold and silver). But what I'm getting at is this: Is the remakes the new canon of the videogame canon of pokemon?

    Obviously, there can be a discussion. But please, I don't want any gen wars of anything of the sort ^^
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  2. #2
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    It could be argued either way.

    On one side, the original is the canon because thats the story the creators first intended it to be.
    A Remake is what is it is. A remake of the original, the one that the game creators wanted the story to be.

    But then again, the remake could be seen as the new and improved, and while the first one is the one the game creaters intended the game to be,
    the remake is Original+better/more

    (Btw, you got your examples mixed up there. You are listing out 3rd versions, not remakes like LGFR or HGSS)
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  3. #3

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    In what passes for "canon" among the core titles, you would be hard-pressed to explain a scenario in which the remakes don't take the place of their respective progenitors in "continuity".



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  4. #4
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    I'd say remake just cuz it's the new and improved one, instead of the outdated one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen Icarus View Post
    It could be argued either way.

    On one side, the original is the canon because thats the story the creators first intended it to be.
    A Remake is what is it is. A remake of the original, the one that the game creators wanted the story to be.

    But then again, the remake could be seen as the new and improved, and while the first one is the one the game creaters intended the game to be,
    the remake is Original+better/more

    (Btw, you got your examples mixed up there. You are listing out 3rd versions, not remakes like LGFR or HGSS)
    I used the third versions as an example of canon. It wasn't suppose to be directly related to my question ^^
    But yea, I see some good points. The remakes are originals + more of what the creators wanted, but the originals are meant to be what the game was intended to be. We should expect to be running to Latios and Latias in kanto originally.
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  6. #6
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    As far as I'm concerned, the remakes always overwrite the originals, and third versions always overwrite paired versions (although there's actually solid evidence to support that notion).

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  7. #7
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    Putting it simple: Yes. When a game is remade, the original games loose their "canonicity". The same goes to third versions (B2W2 obviously not included).

    FRLG are canon, RB and especially Yellow aren't. HGSS are canon, GSC aren't. Emerald is canon, RS aren't. Platinum is canon, DP aren't. BW are canon and B2W2 are also canon.

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    Actually, with the entralink and such, I think all games are canon.

    I remember one character in B/W 2's Opelucid City's Pokemon Center making a comment about how it'd be funny if there was some person like him/her in some other world. I'll have to go look at that again....but hey, at least I have a source for my argument.

    And they refer to the entralink as visiting someone else's world.

    But anyway, I don't think debates about what is canon or not really belong in pokemon, since the game creators don't seem to bother with creating one single, canon story. Otherwise they would of made a 3rd version of B/W. I think all the games are canon to themselves, but not to each other.
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  9. #9
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    Alright, let's look at it like this.

    Begin with a question: Which is canon, Red/Blue, Yellow, or Fr/Lg?

    Have your answer? Good. Now, assuming we didn't choose Yellow, which is canon between the two versions you chose? Pick one, Red or Blue, Fire Red or Leaf Green.

    Silly, right? Well, "canon" implies a set course of events. So, even now we don't have canon. Which starter is canon, Bulbasaur, Charmander, or Squirtle? Which Pokemon should be captured first to be canonical, Pidgey or Rattata?

    Sound ridiculous? This is canon, my good sir! "Canon" implies one, single timeline. Now, what should your team consist of when you fight Brock? What should their moves be? Their levels? Their IVs? We're talking canon!

    For those unsure of where I'm going with this, here's my opinion. The Pokemon games are so open, featuring so much degree of customization, sandbox elements, and even diverging worlds, that to try and decide on a "canon" is just plain ridiculous. There isn't "a canon." Instead, it's "your canon." This is your story, GF just gave us the means to shape it.
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  10. #10
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    Probably the the remade versions. IIRC someone on Village Bridge in BW/2 references the Pokethlon in Johto, which doesn't exist in GSC. Also people referencing a Johto Battle Frontier (Crystal only had a Tower, GS had nothing).

    Aside from small references like that, though, it really doesn't matter too much. Pokemon games are written to exist on their own, without much of an ongoing plotline. Even HGSS and BW2, which are direct sequels, reference FRLG and BW only briefly, essentially hitting the highlights: Red beat the Elite Four and dismantled Team Rocket, Hildabert befriended a dragon and defeated N and Ghetsis. None of the subtle nuanced differences between the originals and their modern counterparts have any relevance to other games, because they're just not important.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zachmac View Post
    I remember one character in B/W 2's Opelucid City's Pokemon Center making a comment about how it'd be funny if there was some person like him/her in some other world. I'll have to go look at that again....but hey, at least I have a source for my argument.

    And they refer to the entralink as visiting someone else's world.
    It's more of a reference to how Black/2 and White/2 are basically parallel universes of each other, and there's other evidence to support that: the Key system with Black City/White Forest, the guy in Opelucid that wants a Klink with Charge from "another world." It's how all of the Gen V games can be considered canon. The Entralink does let you go to other worlds, but only other BW/2 games. I don't think you could extend that evidence to apply to previous games.
    Last edited by Excitable Boy; 21st March 2013 at 10:14 AM.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachmac View Post
    Actually, with the entralink and such, I think all games are canon.
    You'd have considerable difficulty supporting this argument. Are we going to say that R/B/Y vs. FR/LG, or D/P vs. PT or any of the other games that perfectly retell an existing story in equal or greater detail are all "canon", to the extent the word matters here, to the point where pairs of nearly identical adventures featuring nearly identical characters would both be considered "canonical"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zachmac View Post
    But anyway, I don't think debates about what is canon or not really belong in pokemon, since the game creators don't seem to bother with creating one single, canon story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rayze Darr View Post
    There isn't "a canon."
    Sure there is. It's tissue-thin, there more out of necessity than anything else and will never take priority over the making of a game and/or the gameplay elements that make a game good, but it's absolutely there. Otherwise why have characters recur from game to game, referencing other characters, past events and other elements of previous adventure?

    I know people have latched onto this concept of "personal canon" within a game recently and that's all well and good, but it certainly doesn't preclude a story canon from existing in and of itself simply because there is the leeway that is inherent to an interactive medium. If you're going to say that the inherent wiggle room that comes with a medium that has you picking and customizing elements of the gameplay (like Pokémon does as a concept and a series) automatically means that a single canon can't exist, then by that definition no video game that exists as part of a larger series is "canonical" to its respective predecessors or sequels, and we certainly aren't making that case, are we?

    If that inherent abundance of possible story branches is still a sticking point for some of you, tell yourself that an account of the story of any one game would have the teller leaving the protagonist nameless (or, where applicable, using the accepted default name for the character) and the identity of his/her starter and other Pokémon equally ambiguous, so as not to "collapse" the story to any of the single possibilities. On the occasions where the core titles have referred back to one another (and there isn't a linked element that specifically allows for the name and/or Pokémon of a/your past character to be mentioned and displayed, as the link between B/W and B/W2 allows), I believe they do just this to one degree or another.

    Sometimes the simplest answer is best, that being that the remakes replace their respective progenitors in what passes for canon, and the third versions replace their paired predecessors just the same. Again, the "canon" is admittedly tissue-thin and if one of the people responsible for the development of the games were holding a piece of paper marked "deep, detailed, coherent and continuity-heavy story" in one hand and one marked "fun, extensive and effective gameplay" in the other and had to pick one, they'd crumple the former up and toss it over their shoulder in a heartbeat.
    Last edited by BCVM22; 21st March 2013 at 10:27 AM.



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  12. #12
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    I wouldn't mind if they remade the Gen III games as that was during a period I was not playing pokemon games so I missed Gen III (only Gen I have missed) so would love to play that storyline sure I could get originals but would feel weird going from DS games to GBA games.
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  13. #13
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    I'll say the third versions replaces their primary pair predecessors and the remakes replaces the original games.

    However, IMO, the FRLG canon has some "Yellow" elements in it. Red had Pikachu (his main Pokemon), and the 3 Kanto starters in HGSS and B2W2, Blue had a mix of his Yellow champion and FRLG post-Sevii Islands team (without a starter and Eevee) in HGSS and B2W2. Aside from that, HGSS presented us a FRLG Kanto, and Game Freak confirmed that HGSS was the sequel to FRLG.

    So here are the canon games:
    * FRLG (with Yellow elements)
    * HGSS
    * Emerald
    * Platinum
    * BW
    * B2W2

    We still do not know the canonity of Generation VI.

  14. #14
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    Yes, the remakes are the true cannon. The first game is just more to present to players the generation and all, the remake is used to inovate. B2W2 were a little different, but they still a cannon and a better game than BW once they had a lot of innovations.

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    In Heart Gold/Soul Silver, they incorporated Steven Stone, the Hoenn starters, and the switched location of Moltres (which isn't the same, but it isn't Victory Road either). Fire Red and Leaf Green have the precursor for Gold and Silver hinted with the 4-7 Sevii islands music, Koga's daughter (albeit the name was misspelled), and the mentioning of Goldenrod by someone who knows Bill. Yes, the Legendary Beast are in FR/LG, but the legendary sacredness is always violated.

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    Last edited by Auraninja; 22nd March 2013 at 12:21 AM.

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  16. #16
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    I agree with the remakes being the new canon. Within the first two gens (main games Red, Green, Blue, Yellow, Gold, Silver, and Crystal) is a canon of its own. Within at least gens III, IV, and IV (Ruby, Sapphire, FireRed, LeafGreen, Emerald, Diamond, Pearl, Platinum, HeartGold, SoulSilver, Black, White, Black 2, and White 2) is... well, you'll see. I assume to an extent you can pick some of the games in the canon. But here...



    Emerald and Fr/Lg

    _____v
    _____v
    _____v
    _____v
    _____v
    _____v

    Platinum and Hg/Ss <

    _____v
    _____v
    _____v
    v __________ v
    v __________ v
    v __________ v
    Black_________White
    v ______________v
    v ______________v
    v_______________v
    Black 2 __________White 2



    Ignore the underline. I see it as Gen V splitting one canon (the one that started in Gen III) into two canons. Those /'s mean you choose the game on one side of the / or the other to be in the canon, and those sets ofarrows means big changes in time.)

    In any case, games like Red or Yellow don't affect the charted timeline/s. And I assume the improved game is the true storyline (hence Emerald being around instead of Ruby or Sapphire, for example.)

    I think it relates for me to say this, but I see Gen III as the one and only reboot the main Pokemon games (the ones listed above) have had. Gen III doesn't connect with the first two gens, and they remade games from the first two gens anyway.

    That's not all relevant to this thread, but I wanted to mention it somewhere. =/

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  17. #17
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    i think they remade them, the Kanto and Johto games because they wanted all the games to interact and be relevant. You can get every pokemon and transfer it to Pokemon X and Y.

  18. #18
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    I guess they are the new Canon.
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  19. #19
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    I'd say so.
    Nothing interesting here. Carry on.
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  20. #20
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    I think they are the cannon. They have things that actually link them to the game. The remakes also get rid of contradictions, like Professor Birch discovering all the Johto Pokemon.
    even if we don't understand each other, that's not a reason to reject each other. There are two sides to any argument. Is there one point of view that has all the answers? Give it some thought.
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