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Thread: Is a Pokemon better off not being caught if it rarely gets used?

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    Default Is a Pokemon better off not being caught if it rarely gets used?

    While the chief offender is Palpitoad, and by extension every member of Ash's team besides the big 3 (pika, sni, miju) this also applies to cast pokemon as well. Should the writers even bother giving Ash these pokemon if he barely ever uses them? There really wouldn't have been much difference if Leavanny, boldore, and palpitoad's battles got stolen by the big 3 and those 3 never getting caught.

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    I guess so, but at the same time, there are some whose personalities I like.

    I guess it's better than wasted potential, though. I'm not really sure.

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    I don't even know why Ash needs Palpitoad anymore now that he has Oshawott and Krookodile.

    It's like, the writers make him release 3 well-trained Pokemon (Primeape, Butterfree, Pidgeot), make him trade one of his coolest and then watch it be released (Ambipom), not even catch another well-trained Pokemon (Larvitar), but they let him keep a Pokemon that's only appeared in like 5 times in 5 episodes??

    If Ash doesn't use a Pokemon as often as he probably should, especially since he's rotating, then he should just release that Pokemon, since it probably was an unpopular choice for him to begin with.

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    I thought the Big 3 were Pikachu, Pignite, and Oshawott.

    Anyway, yeah, I think a Pokemon shouldn't be captured by one of the main cast unless that Pokemon is going to get some consistent usage in battles or a decent win streak (which implies being used consistently). I think the only reason why this inconsistency issue has been happening, though, it because almost all of the Unova Pokemon that Ash has share a typing with another Pokemon. Pignite shares a Fighting type with Scraggy, who shares a Dark typing with Krookodile, who shares a Ground typing with Palpitoad, who shares a Water typing with Oshawott while Snivy shares a Grass typing with Leavanny. Boldore and Unfezant are the only Unova Pokemon that have a typing completely unique to Ash's team, and Ash stinks at using defensive Pokemon, so Boldore is bound to throw away a lot of matches.

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    I make Ash theme teams in the games so I'll take anything even if it gets as little use as Muk lololol. That is my actual reason, I'm not kidding. But anyway, no, I'll rather him catching as much as possible even if they don't get much use. Kingler, Muk and Tauros are already less used than any of his Unova mons and I don't see anyone complaining about them getting caught(of course the writing has changed since then but still, it's the same show). For me it's cool if Ash simply owns something, and everyone has gotten some sort of spot light anyway so it's not like there's any complete neglect. We're not dealing with real people here so it's not like anyone's actually suffering from the limited screen time. And since all his Pokemon like him it's safe to say that Ash treats them all well in series, the writers just don't bother to show it unfortunately.

    Him releasing Pokemon would be way worse in every single scenario imo, I'm glad they introduced the rotation system and hope they continue with it in 6th gen.
    Last edited by Rohanator; 26th February 2013 at 1:26 AM.
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    Not sure what to make of this, I honestly think the writers could have done an amazing job with Satoshi's sizable Isshu Team if this saga was longer. DP length would have been best, without a BW2 Ad interruption. Doing a Pokemon count-up we have Pikachu, Waruvial, Mijumaru, Tsutarja, Kenharou, Gantle, Zuruggu, Chaobu, and, of course, Gamagaru. Right off the bat I feel like Mijumaru is being treated a tad too much like Pochama 2.0. In the sense a lot of his screen-time is fluff/comedy than his character getting developed or getting interesting or benefiting battles. It's a shame because in BW I felt like he was one of the strong Isshu Pokemon and had some really fun battle to boot. Seems like he mostly does clown-y actions now though. I definitely don't care for a Gantle and Kenharou as much as Hahakomori and Gamagaru. My reasons for liking them better? Gamagaru had an amazing personality and I like his design and Hahakomori was one of my favorite Pokemon as a Kurumiru and Kurumayu. Honestly, Hahakomori is a much much better Pokemon than Tsutarja when it comes to battling. Sure she has a fun personality but Hahakomori has proven his strength and used strategy in several of his battles in an impressive way. In all earnest, he was the reason Waruvial was bale to beat Dageki in the League, in fact it only would have taken precisely one hit to knock Dageki unconscious. He also has a very solid moveset.

    Kenharou and Gantle's battles bothered me a lot, their evolutions just felt so forced. It's a shame because I really liked Gantle as a Dangoro too and its hyperactive jumpy personality. Not sure what to make of poor Zuruggu, he's probably one of my favorites of Satoshi's Isshu Pokemon and he has a nice connection to Iris's Kibago. It feels as though he's not getting treated as well as Gomazou(Phanpy) when he was caught. I just want him to get some more battle is all and learn Head Smash. Still waiting for a Tag Battle with Kibago......Gomazou even got nice use at the League in Jouto and got to battle a gym leader, abut being frozen by said gym leader and TR's Delibird in its first few battles. Satoshi's own mistakes with throwing his newborn up against an obvious trained Ice-type. Overall, I'll be more content when Zuruggu gets more screen-time.

    For right now Chaobu is okay, it's been a while since the League when he was used so I'm starting to miss him but he's fared well. Tsutarja is below-average, my only problem with her is she's extremely stagnate by this point and hasn't had a battle that challenges her as a character like many of the other main cast Pokemon have had.(Kibago, Zuruggu, Mijumaru, Doryuzu, Emonga, Waruvial, Hahakomori, Kenharou, Kairyu, um.....let's see and Gantle of course.) These Pokemon have all had battles I felt challenged them as characters and they managed to make a surprising turn-around in the midst of the battle in a somewhat satisfying manner.

    In short, yes I agree he shouldn't catch some if he's not gonna use them much but I'm not against the ones he has since I like them. If no one liked them they wouldn't want them to be used, now would they? :P

    I honestly thought the writers should have been implementing the reserve idea since Jouto. He had iirc, he had six new captures and he did use some Kanto captures in the beginning and tail end.

    The one good side of TR's more prominent appearance even we get a nice hello from Pokemon we haven't seen in a while.(Tsutarja in the Denryuu episode.) Plus with the TP running a muck at least some Pokemon get the chance to battle and get wins.(Doryuzu VS. Habunake.)
    Last edited by Doryuzu; 26th February 2013 at 2:36 AM.

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    The Unova team is such a weird case for me. They're some of the most underused and underdeveloped Pokemon he's had since Johto but I just love the team sooooo much. Maybe it's those little showings that they HAVE had that made me love them. Or maybe it's because Best Wishes is the first time since I'm following the show week to week since mid Hoenn when I was still a kid so there's that sorta connection going on. But yeah I don't want anyone to go, I just hope we get to see some more before the end, just a little bit of everyone.
    Honestly I didn't even take Pokemon development or screen time into such consideration until I came here and witnessed all the complaining. Kinda wish I never did, lol.
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    Overall this is what i've got to say.

    First off I don't think anyone can deny that Krookodile and Pignite have gotten the best development of the pack, would be even better if Pignite was to evolve granted I know most people don't want that to happen...

    Scraggy is still young compared to the others, but it has shown to be competant, and has it's bond with Axew to keep it going so I see nothing wrong with it.

    Oshawott and Palpitoad suprisingly feel even to me, the strange thing is that Oshawott has acutally shown growth potential by getting new moves on screen and training hard, while Palpitoad has not(and no slapping a new attack on it that it apparently got off screen doesn't constatute growth) yet Palpitoad gets used in more important fights, it's like a competition on which one is better, but at this point neither one of them truely wins, granted yes one of them could evolve, but I don't think it would change anything from thier current posistions.

    Snivy and Levanny however it's clearly obvious who the better one is, Snivy imho shouldn't have been caught by Ash and unlike Oshawott she remains completely unchanged from day one which is very rare to see in a captured pokemon, she has learned no new attacks, Levanny on the other hand has shown to be a competant battler and is quite strong and has learned quite a few moves to grant it the skill to be good in combat.

    Unfezant and Boldore...the two oddballs, Unfezant pretty much feels like a Noctowl repeat (with how she's been used) with the addition of being able to evolve, but Boldore is probably the one pokemon that disapoints me, being a new element Ash has never gotten before (along with the Dark types) I was hoping the writers would put some decent focus on it, but it seems like with previous cases the writers don't know how to combine Ash with defensive oriented pokemon, i'm still hoping they can evolve it to Gigalith and turn it around, but at this point who knows.
    Last edited by Almighty Zard; 26th February 2013 at 4:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Almighty Zard View Post
    Unfezant and Boldore...the two oddballs, Unfezant pretty much feels like a Noctowl repeat (with how she's been used) with the addition of being able to evolve, but Boldore is probably the one pokemon that disapoints me, being a new element Ash has never gotten before (along with the Dark types) I was hoping the writers would put some decent focus on it, but it seems like with previous cases the writers don't know how to combine Ash with defensive oriented pokemon, i'm still hoping they can evolve it to Gigalith and turn it around, but at this point who knows.
    In retrospect, the only defensive Pokemon that he's been having good success with is Snorlax, and even that Pokemon was pretty good at moving his fat *** from Point A to Point B quickly.

    ...Doesn't it feel weird that this thread is being so civil. Normally, I would've expected some poo flinging before getting halfway through the first page, but things are pretty mellow here. Great topic, pokemonsquared.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PokeMaster366 View Post
    In retrospect, the only defensive Pokemon that he's been having good success with is Snorlax, and even that Pokemon was pretty good at moving his fat *** from Point A to Point B quickly.

    ...Doesn't it feel weird that this thread is being so civil. Normally, I would've expected some poo flinging before getting halfway through the first page, but things are pretty mellow here. Great topic, pokemonsquared.
    I was expecting a flame or two about how all pokemon were special and no one should be ditched ever but people are actually seeing the truth.

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    Don't you think it might be too early to judge? I mean if we were to judge Kingler, Muk and Tauros in Kanto and say were they worth catching, a lot of people would probably have the same complaints that they have now with Palpitoad, Unfezant, Leavanny and Boldore and those 4 have gotten way more than Kingler, Muk and Tauros did in Kanto. I mean Kingler and Muk weren't used until the League and he didn't use Tauros until his battle with Drake. Ash will continue to use reserves in future generations if any tournament comes up where Ash wants to use reserves so we could be seeing these 4 again. I'm sure no one thought Snorlax and Heracross would come back after their original seasons but they are 2 of Ash's most used reserves and the same could happen with his Unova reserves. We'll have to see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemaniac24 View Post
    Don't you think it might be too early to judge? I mean if we were to judge Kingler, Muk and Tauros in Kanto and say were they worth catching, a lot of people would probably have the same complaints that they have now with Palpitoad, Unfezant, Leavanny and Boldore and those 4 have gotten way more than Kingler, Muk and Tauros did in Kanto. I mean Kingler and Muk weren't used until the League and he didn't use Tauros until his battle with Drake. Ash will continue to use reserves in future generations if any tournament comes up where Ash wants to use reserves so we could be seeing these 4 again. I'm sure no one thought Snorlax and Heracross would come back after their original seasons but they are 2 of Ash's most used reserves and the same could happen with his Unova reserves. We'll have to see.
    Most used =like 3 eps max between the two. It's obvious that the writers don't really like giving out large roles to any more than 5 pokemon at a time.

    Kanto- Pikachu, 2 starters, pidgeyotto, everything else gets oaked immediately or released
    Johto- Pikachu, 3 starters, Noctowl (heracross gets ditched early, phanpy is last minute replacement)
    Hoenn- Pikachu, corphish, grovylve, swellow (the other 2 combined got maybe that of corphish's)
    Sinnoh- Pikachu, 2 starters, buizel, staraptor (gliscor was traded in for gible)
    Unova- Pikachu, miju, snivy, (with honorable mention going to pignite and scraggy because they at least eat onscreen)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemaniac24 View Post
    Don't you think it might be too early to judge? I mean if we were to judge Kingler, Muk and Tauros in Kanto and say were they worth catching, a lot of people would probably have the same complaints that they have now with Palpitoad, Unfezant, Leavanny and Boldore and those 4 have gotten way more than Kingler, Muk and Tauros did in Kanto. I mean Kingler and Muk weren't used until the League and he didn't use Tauros until his battle with Drake. Ash will continue to use reserves in future generations if any tournament comes up where Ash wants to use reserves so we could be seeing these 4 again. I'm sure no one thought Snorlax and Heracross would come back after their original seasons but they are 2 of Ash's most used reserves and the same could happen with his Unova reserves. We'll have to see.
    I feel that Palpitoad would be the only one I feel that shouldn't have been caught. Muk, Kingler, and Tauros are a bit different in how they compare to Palpitoad.

    Krabby was caught and not used besides a few cameos to show the difference between Ash and Gary. But Ash chose to use it in his first League battle ever...in which it evolved and swept. As for Muk it's capture seemed pointless until the League too until it was Ash's secret weapon.

    What has Palpitoad really done that was memorable? Sure it had a nice debut and beat 2 Zebstrika, but it's not as significant as Kingler and Muk. I feel the same as compared to the rest of Ash's Pokémon, it's nothing that really stands out. I mean this as accomplishment wise, move wise, and battle style wise

    As for Tauros, I could see why it doesn't seem to standout among Ash's battles. But we have to remember that it's not just one, but 30 that he caught




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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFonz View Post
    I feel that Palpitoad would be the only one I feel that shouldn't have been caught. Muk, Kingler, and Tauros are a bit different in how they compare to Palpitoad.

    Krabby was caught and not used besides a few cameos to show the difference between Ash and Gary. But Ash chose to use it in his first League battle ever...in which it evolved and swept. As for Muk it's capture seemed pointless until the League too until it was Ash's secret weapon.

    What has Palpitoad really done that was memorable? Sure it had a nice debut and beat 2 Zebstrika, but it's not as significant as Kingler and Muk. I feel the same as compared to the rest of Ash's Pokémon, it's nothing that really stands out. I mean this as accomplishment wise, move wise, and battle style wise

    As for Tauros, I could see why it doesn't seem to standout among Ash's battles. But we have to remember that it's not just one, but 30 that he caught
    I still feel that Palpitoad isn't being treated as badly as people say. I mean sure he didn't have a moment like Muk and Kingler that made people really remember him but he was still used more often than Kingler and Muk were in their original seasons. I personally feel that 10 Pokémon for Ash to use during the shortest saga so far is a lot and we should feel lucky enough that all 10 of his Pokémon got used at all. I mean half of Ash's team didn't leave the League with a win or a draw so the fact that Palpitoad got a draw should make the Palpitoad fans happy. And even with Ash catching 30 Tauros, it seems that a lot of people agree the Tauros he uses is always the same one. So like I said, we can't really judge Palpitoad until later sagas because we don't know what will happen in the future in regard to Ash's reserves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    I was expecting a flame or two about how all pokemon were special and no one should be ditched ever but people are actually seeing the truth.
    "Seeing the truth" please, if I'm fine with him not releasing underused Pokes then I'm goddamn fine with it. There's no truth, just opinions.
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    I honestly feel like Tsutarja would be better off under the ownership of Iris or Dento, she's been stagnate her whole run and is the least showcased of Satoshi's Isshu Starter. Given her connection to Emonga I can't see her just not being caught in the first place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doryuzu View Post
    I honestly feel like Tsutarja would be better off under the ownership of Iris or Dento, she's been stagnate her whole run and is the least showcased of Satoshi's Isshu Starter. Given her connection to Emonga I can't see her just not being caught in the first place.
    Them owning her wouldn't guarantee better treatment imo. Cilan has possibly the most underused Pokemon of the main cast and he only has 3. Of course a starter would probably be different but still.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rohanator View Post
    Them owning her wouldn't guarantee better treatment imo. Cilan has possibly the most underused Pokemon of the main cast and he only has 3. Of course a starter would probably be different but still.
    True, but his Pokemon have all gotten some good battles where they've all gotten wins and shined, usually making the last finishing blow in a Tag Battle or continuing on after the other Pokemon has been knocked unconscious. Even when they lose the Pokemon still gets to shine, Yanappu VS. Subway Masters and his smart use of the railing, so I guess that's sorta a trade-off for a personality and character development in a way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doryuzu View Post
    True, but his Pokemon have all gotten some good battles where they've all gotten wins and shined, usually making the last finishing blow in a Tag Battle or continuing on after the other Pokemon has been knocked unconscious. Even when they lose the Pokemon still gets to shine, Yanappu VS. Subway Masters and his smart use of the railing, so I guess that's sorta a trade-off for a personality and character development in a way.
    Stunfisk hasn't. His only win is that mostly off screen match in the junior cup. He's had a couple cool battles, but he lost them. So even though Cilan only has 3 Pokemon one of them is like the worst treated of the whole main group.
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    Ok my view on it is, i don't think it is a problem if a pokemon is less commonly used.However if a pokemon is to be added to the cast there is one rule that should always be applied. That rule is that every pokemon should have a clear personality. That has been the the main problem of the reserves. I would argue that all the reserves could've done with clearer personalities. That is arguably why the others have got so much use.It's hard to write in a character into an episode if you can't find an interesting response for it to do to a situation. So the pokemon being caught isn't the problem but the personality needs to be clear from the start.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luthor View Post
    Ok my view on it is, i don't think it is a problem if a pokemon is less commonly used.However if a pokemon is to be added to the cast there is one rule that should always be applied. That rule is that every pokemon should have a clear personality. That has been the the main problem of the reserves. I would argue that all the reserves could've done with clearer personalities. That is arguably why the others have got so much use.It's hard to write in a character into an episode if you can't find an interesting response for it to do to a situation. So the pokemon being caught isn't the problem but the personality needs to be clear from the start.
    I think every Pokemon in Ash's team had a pretty clear personality in the episodes they were caught in, except Pidove. But she was more randomly caught like Starly. They just didn't really expand on some of them.
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    Personally I can't understand why in the generation Ash catches the most Pokemon (that he actually keeps), the rotation is so terrible. If they were only going to glorify or give screentime to Pikachu, Pignite and Oshawott why on earth make him catch 7 more when some of them would virtually never be seen! If the team was just Pikachu, Pignite, Snivy, Oshawott, Krookodile and Scraggy (the most used 6 I reckon) then the distribution of screentime and battles wouldn't be half as bad. I love Leavanny, Palpitoad, Unfezant and Boldore, don't get me wrong, I would have those four and Krookodile join Pikachu on his team if only 6 were allowed. What a waste of potential.
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    I've always believed that a Pokemon is better off not getting captured if it isn't going to get a lot of screen-time. I often asked people during mid-BW why they wanted Ash to get dozens of more Pokemon, but I never really got an answer, so I don't really understand their way of thinking. But to me it makes little sense for a character to have a lot of Pokemon if only a few of them are going to appear often. There's just no justification for neglected team members in my opinion.

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    It's not worth it just to have it exist. It's tough saying this too, since Iris and Cilan should logically get more Pokemon like their counterparts, but their Pokemon don't always do anything. Ash's use of Pokemon has improved with season 2, I think, but Palpitoad is still irrelevant.

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    Looking at it now in BW, a Pokemon is better off not being caught.

    The only other Pokemon that had small appearances that it really worked for is Kingler, Tauros and Muk.

    Kingler, because it didn't appear at all, and was even stated that Ash had never used it before until the League making it a special moment, especially because it evolved and got some glorified wins.

    Tauros, because when it got it's appearance it helped Ash win a League, and Muk because despite it not being used often, when it's used it's very memorable and it continues to make small appearances here and there so that the audience at least know of the Pokemon.

    Basically, in the OS the writers purposely didn't use the Pokemon as reserves, whilst in Best Wishes they try and keep failing because they don't give enough screentime, and never give any surprise returns for glorified win.

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