Your stance on Goals?

[Rohanator]

I really don't care much for Ash's overall development even though I do actually love the guy and don't wanna see him go. If they do something deeper with him then sure I'll welcome it but right now I just wanna see him do his thing, have more battles and evolve/get more Pokes and stay as his enthusiastic self. If I wanna see something deep I'll go watch something deep. Pokemon is like positiveness medication for me lol. It really helps sometimes so I'm grateful for it for what it is.

[Spin Attaxx]

So you want Ash to remain his bland, boring self from now until the end of time?

[Rohanator]

So you want Ash to remain his bland, boring self from now until the end of time?

He's not boring to me. He's not really interesting either, he's just up lifting to watch. Him going KIMI NI KIMETA ect in Rica's awesome voice is my sh*t right there <333 Again, I don't watch Pokemon for anything deep. It's just fun.

[Doryuzu]

He's not boring to me. He's not really interesting either, he's just up lifting to watch. Him going KIMI NI KIMETA ect in Rica's awesome voice is my sh*t right there <333 Again, I don't watch Pokemon for anything deep. It's just fun.

Yep, that's Ash for you. He's a very nice character in that regard.

[Angel~]

Yeah. I'd say it also involves doing well in tournaments like the Alto Mare Water Race, the Catch-A-Seaking Competition and the Whirl Cup, especially the Whirl Cup has a lot of prestige involved. Battling with Water Pokemon is probably most important, but some other skills like fishing and riding Water Pokemon matter too.

Winning the Whirl Cup indeed does give you recognition. Given all your examples of what one must do, it's not really a vague goal once you think about it.

[Doryuzu]

Winning the Whirl Cup indeed does give you recognition. Given all your examples of what one must do, it's not really a vague goal once you think about it.

I think we're looking more for an answer of what specifically it takes to become a Water Pokemon Master. The steps toward it, not assumptions. Things that were stated that must be done to achievement that goal. It was really vague, then again it was OS.

[pokemon fan 132]

Personally i find having goal gives character more texture to his own story and background, allowing to grow him forward in easier and more substantial way.

But that's not to say how such thing is necessary, and to presume how goal is required to justify someone existence would be big understatement to make.
Because there are various other desires characters may have going for them beside only their personal main dreams, still being vital to story.

For example Max didn't had goal but he was still valuable asset to team helping cast to navigate way toward next gyms or help them when they got lost, gave advices about gym leaders and battle strategies as well bailing group out from sometime dangerous situations. Brock aside from breeder dream wanted to travel and see more of world , get chance to experience new places and pokemon from first hand and enrich his roaster with new captures.
Same applies to Misty who aside from pursuing water career wanted to explore new regions, have fun with friends by learning more about various types of pokemon, new innovative ways of battling and run away from sisters shadow wanting to make name for herself.

So its not like goal is the only thing which defines character and fills him with purpose, with this show being more about journey rather than destination.

But anyhow so far we had two definition of goals in pokemon. Ones being clearly explained and defined like goal of becoming top coordinator knowing what kind of competitions it involve and whats needed to do to become one(such as winning GF).

Along with more unclear ones such as becoming dragon or water master, S class connoisseur etc which defined what they mean explaining each term abit, but lacked proper explanation and visibly defined way through which you can build up and accomplish such thing.

However ill be fair in here. If there is one positive aspect unexplored careers have in certain situations is ability to bring that dash of mystery to it allowing writers to take it through several fresh directions making them more unpredictable/exciting in sense of not knowing what to expect next. Keeping you in suspension. As opposite to formulaic paradigm fully explored goals has taking away from originality and excitement due to being set up what structure and procedure needs to be followed.

Each goal has its pros and cons depending how you look at it.

p.s. Regarding Misty water master career im not sure why people act like its unknown what this goal means.

It was established in original series how Misty goal involves becoming strongest water trainer in world being on pair with E4 members. Who are best mono trainers often being labeled as one type masters, with Misty showing clear fascination over Lorelei being her idol. Also judging by wording from sea priestess Maya title of water master means becoming water pokemon expert which has power to understand sea creatures and use them to full potential,being recognized and respected among all water trainers worldwide. For same reason Whirl Cup was introduced as one of such competitions where you can gain more experience,make step forward and prove yourself to others being directly linked with water master thing serving as one of benchmarks through which you come closer toward such title.

In addition it was established with Cilan connoisseur dream how there exist rankings for those which identify compatibility between trainer and his pokemon. C being lowest, while S highest class connoisseur can achieve making you top expert in fiekd of determining accordance and level of harmony there can exist between humans and their pokemon partners.

As such we also know judging by Cabernet history how there exists school where you can become certified connoisseur and likely special tasks /tests you need to pass getting estimated by other top class craftsman in this field to determine if you are good enough to advance on next level.

In nutshell we do know what Misty water master goal or Cilan S class connoisseurs dreams mean, being established aim they are looking for. We only don't know full picture of procedure, path you need to follow to accomplish this dreams.
Sam applies to Brock breeding career.
Arguably Misty had slightly better defined goal than rest of crew with vague goals, because with water tournament it was set up how there exists specific tasks which serve as way to rank up as trainer.

Not making them any more vague imo than Ash never ending pokemon master quest still not knowing what it involves aside from winning league and battling E4. Iris dragon master goal which lack proper explanation, clean-cut direction she needs to follow to earn right to gain title of master. Etc, etc.

I think we're looking more for an answer of what specifically it takes to become a Water Pokemon Master. The steps toward it, not assumptions. Things that were stated that must be done to achievement that goal. It was really vague, then again it was OS.

During Whirl islands it was clearly stated how winner of tourney gets title "Alpha Omega of water types"being stated by prof. Elm and later sea priestess Maya how "water heroes"(in japanese convoluted form of water master) in past were called by that name, being obviously one of steps someone needs to enter and fulfill to gain that tile. Wining one tournament wont make you master, but it is one of steps which brings you closer, so entering water tournaments like Whirl Cup showed to be directly connected with Misty dream.

[Doryuzu]

During Whirl islands it was clearly stated how winner of tourney gets title "Alpha Omega of water types"being stated by prof. Elm and later sea priestess Maya how "water heroes"(in japanese convoluted form of water master) in past were called by that name, being obviously one of steps someone needs to enter and fulfill to gain that tile. Wining one tournament wont make you master, but it is one of steps which brings you closer, so entering water tournaments like Whirl Cup showed to be directly connected with Misty dream.

"obviously one of steps" =//=Being stated as a a step toward the goal. No vagueness, just pure fact please.

[pokemon fan 132]

"obviously one of steps" =//=Being stated as a a step toward the goal. No vagueness, just pure fact please.

Its common sense. In "Around the Whirlpool" Misty dreams of becoming water master, than conviniently prof. Elm informs them how there exists Whirl Cup explaining how winner becomes "Alpha omega"(beggining and end to water pokemon). Something Misty eagerly accepts subscribing still fantasizing about becoming master of water pokemon.

Just to hear more about this in "Dueling Heroes"when sea priest Maya talks about water pokemon expert, "sea heroes" (Japanese water masters)which knew ins and outs of water types with title winner obtains in Whirl Cup being convoluted form of water pokemon master , one of steps they in past obtained before fulfilling this dream.

Whirl Cup was directly connected with Misty water master career since it dug deeper into that mentioning whole water master thing and expertize about water types previous water experts used to have.
While admittedly whole procedure was vague , it also had connections with Misty dream.

[Doryuzu]

Its common sense.

Again, I want it actually stated what it takes to be a Water Pokemon Master, not left up to assumptions. Stated. Otherwise it's vague and is just assumptions and speculation.

[pokemon fan 132]

Again, I want it actually stated what it takes to be a Water Pokemon Master, not left up to assumptions. Stated. Otherwise it's vague and is just assumptions and speculation.

Way i see it this is arguing for sake of arguing dismissing every evidence provided in here. Something which is clear as day and self explanatory doesn't need to be literally stated. That's same like arguing how "Ash isn't human, because it hasn't been stated that he is human".

Factually during Whirl islands and Whirl cup term water pokemon master was brought up several times, in Japanese version of episodes where this was brought up term sea heroes, Alpha omega were referred as convoluted forms of water pokemon masters who had power to understand hearts of water types, communicated with them and had expertize. Something we had chance hear from prof. Elm in "Around the Whirlpool", and sea priestess Maya in "Dueling Heroes".

From bulbapedia:"It was is implied that those who bear the title are "Water Pokémon Beginning to End," a convoluted form of a Water Pokémon Master".

We don't know what else it takes to do to become water master, but what is known how Whirl cup tournament was directly linked with whole term and aim Misty strives for showing there exists certain tasks you need to accomplish to become master in water field.

Contemporary going through Misty dialogue whenever she mentioned water master thing she also mentioned desire to become strongest water trainer in world revealing how strong she needs to become to be considered as master. So far currently strongest trainers which specialize in one type are E4 members drawing parallels with her idol she admires Lorelei.

[pokemonsquared]

They should just have a sort of test for these "type master" goals.

yay sinnoh champ

[p96822]

I'm okay with Ash, Iris, May and Dawn goals, but anyone else I don't know

[Locormus]

Okay, in reply to people discarding Iris' development.

- Started off as a trainer with the task of raising a baby Axew.
- Succesfully mastered a move for her Axew.
- Succesfully mastered several other moves to varying degrees.
- Guided another Dragon-trainer (Amy) with her development and fighting skills with a Druddigon.
- Managed to calm and bond with a shy Deino, a rude and wily pokemon by nature.
- Managed to 'mentally' bond with a Dragonite and eventually had it join her team.
- Managed to overcome the disconnection between her and Dragonite, all be it with a little help.
- Managed to calm a fully evolved rampaging 'brutal' dragon.
- Managed to defeat one of the signature dragon of a Dragon-type gymleader/master, albeit not with her own Dragons, it shows that she knows the capabilities of them.
- Has been offered a future position of Dragon-type Gym Leader.

Add in that she will likely overcome her type antagonistic rival, it will show that she has developed. Bolded the big change. Sure, she isn't finishing her goal in this series, but it doesn't take a genius to see that she has been moved towards her goal. As for Cilan.. -.-

[Graham Aker]

So you want Ash to remain his bland, boring self from now until the end of time?

Well, the longer they keep him around, the blander he'll become. Mainly because he's not really making and real notable progress, and any that he might make is written off only to be repeated the very next season. There's no real building off of past progress anymore.

[AuraChannelerChris]

Well, the longer they keep him around, the blander he'll become. Mainly because he's not really making and real notable progress, and any that he might make is written off only to be repeated the very next season. There's no real building off of past progress anymore.

The only real development he has is having a hell lot of multi-national badges.

I wonder. Will they let him take on the leagues using the same badges, or do they have expiration dates?

[pokemonsquared]

The only real development he has is having a hell lot of multi-national badges.

I wonder. Will they let him take on the leagues using the same badges, or do they have expiration dates?

I'm betting the badges are only good for one challenge.

[CyberCubed]

Tangible goals are better, but I'd like to see something else for the female lead next time.

[AuraChannelerChris]

Tangible goals are better, but I'd like to see something else for the female lead next time.

Become the Champion for the next region.

I'd like to see that.

[Caseydia]

Well, the longer they keep him around, the blander he'll become. Mainly because he's not really making and real notable progress, and any that he might make is written off only to be repeated the very next season. There's no real building off of past progress anymore.

Yeah but even though that is true in some regard there are still things that make him stand out like his pokemon compared to everyone else's or how different the battles are in each region. If he was that bad, then they could have replaced him. But if not, then they would have been having another boy doing the same thing that the game's foundation is on, which is gym battles. If you don't like them then maybe the game or the anime isn't for your liking.