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Thread: Why is PokeSpe so highly regarded?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    To be honest, that's kinda sad if half the reason PokeSpecial is praised is because of the anime's...well it's issues. I admit I like Adventures way more then the anime, but I have liked them both at the same time once upon a time. Never equally, true, but there was a time when I liked them both. I mean Pokemon Adventures has it's fair share of problems as well.
    It's just that for all it's issues, Kusaka seems to focus on storytelling far more than promotion (though keeping the plot relevant to the current generation can be a challenge...). With the Anime, the plot is minimal and the characters can be awfully bland (their dialogue is especially insufferable and unimaginative) with the staff favoring promotion over quality storytelling. With PokeSpe, you can feel how invested Kusaka and Yamamoto were in the story (their introductions in each volume for example). Even at it's worse (HGSS), I'd still favor Special over the Anime any day.


    I don't totally hate the Anime but it showed a lot of potential that it sadly missed to take advantage of.

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    Also idk if it's just me but I kinda did notice that the anime and Pokemon Adventures might be "collaborating" a little (and again idk if it's on purpose). Whenever either the anime or the manga seem to favor one version in a pair over another, the other one favors the other just to balance it out. For example, the anime highly favored Ruby over Sapphire when it chose to make the butler a former-Magma member and starred Groudon while Kyogre's feature in a movie was minimal (I think it appeared in the Manaphy movie but it's been almost a decade since I watched it so the memory is fuzzy). Meanwhile in the manga, Kusaka gives Aqua more spotlight when he decides that the Aqua boss gets to survive longer and gets the opportunity to create a Kyogre monster. And recently, Kusaka is REALLY favoring Black over White when he gives Zekrom to N and Reshiram to the protagonist. While in the anime, it looks like N will get Reshiram and Ash will battle him with Zekrom. Idk if this "collaboration" is intentional but to me it seems like the two most popular derivatives of the Pokemon games are in a mini-partnership to make things fair for both versions in a pair when necessary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macromind101 View Post
    Also idk if it's just me but I kinda did notice that the anime and Pokemon Adventures might be "collaborating" a little (and again idk if it's on purpose). Whenever either the anime or the manga seem to favor one version in a pair over another, the other one favors the other just to balance it out. For example, the anime highly favored Ruby over Sapphire when it chose to make the butler a former-Magma member and starred Groudon while Kyogre's feature in a movie was minimal (I think it appeared in the Manaphy movie but it's been almost a decade since I watched it so the memory is fuzzy). Meanwhile in the manga, Kusaka gives Aqua more spotlight when he decides that the Aqua boss gets to survive longer and gets the opportunity to create a Kyogre monster. And recently, Kusaka is REALLY favoring Black over White when he gives Zekrom to N and Reshiram to the protagonist. While in the anime, it looks like N will get Reshiram and Ash will battle him with Zekrom. Idk if this "collaboration" is intentional but to me it seems like the two most popular derivatives of the Pokemon games are in a mini-partnership to make things fair for both versions in a pair when necessary.
    I didn't noticed. I haven't watched the anime in years and I am not following it anymore. It could be pure coincidence. Archie always looked more insane and heartless than Maxie since the RS arc. The male protagonist always seems to get more spotlight that the female or the rival. Red, Gold, Ruby, Diamond and now Black. Also the male hero is always named after the first game and since in Black version you get Reshiram, so Black will get Reshiram in his party.
    Last edited by Dreamingflower; 14th March 2013 at 11:26 PM.

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    How is N getting Zekrom and Black getting Reshiram a ''collaboration?"

    Pokespe is like, one of, what, four Pokemon manga that gave N Zekrom so far?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lolipiece View Post
    How is N getting Zekrom and Black getting Reshiram a ''collaboration?"

    Pokespe is like, one of, what, four Pokemon manga that gave N Zekrom so far?
    Since it's evident that you haven't read my post thoroughly, I'll state the main points one more time:

    What I think is that N getting Zekrom in the manga and him getting Reshiram in the anime (well didn't happen yet but it kinda looks like it based on his childhood and the coming episode titles) could be the two medias collaborating to even out the version preferences. And I don't read the other mangas and they're not nearly as popular as Pokemon Adventures so I'm not regarding them. I see this as a parallel to how Team Aqua starred over Magma in the manga seeing how Archie got to star as the villain one more time without Maxie while in the anime one of the movies showed the fake Groudon over Kyogre.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    It's just that for all it's issues, Kusaka seems to focus on storytelling far more than promotion (though keeping the plot relevant to the current generation can be a challenge...). With the Anime, the plot is minimal and the characters can be awfully bland (their dialogue is especially insufferable and unimaginative) with the staff favoring promotion over quality storytelling. With PokeSpe, you can feel how invested Kusaka and Yamamoto were in the story (their introductions in each volume for example). Even at it's worse (HGSS), I'd still favor Special over the Anime any day.


    I don't totally hate the Anime but it showed a lot of potential that it sadly missed to take advantage of.
    I actually wasn't really defending the anime, because really what you said about HGSS over the anime...I'm forced to agree and can't argue that at all. I was getting at it's sad that Pokemon Adventures is highly regarded because people lose faith in the anime and turn to this manga. It almost makes half of PokeSpecial's fanbase feel somewhat artificial. Like lets say the anime had really epic writing. Does that mean the people wouldn't pay attention to PokeSpecial because of that? That is really what I was saying. I would like PokeSpecial more either way. It gives me new characters to love each region so that alone makes it better for me without question. I have never gotten sick of any of the Dexholders. I do ask myself if the anime had similar writings would PokeSpecial still be as popular? As a PokeSpecial fan it's a scary thought for me. I love this series.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    I actually wasn't really defending the anime, because really what you said about HGSS over the anime...I'm forced to agree and can't argue that at all. I was getting at it's sad that Pokemon Adventures is highly regarded because people lose faith in the anime and turn to this manga. It almost makes half of PokeSpecial's fanbase feel somewhat artificial. Like lets say the anime had really epic writing. Does that mean the people wouldn't pay attention to PokeSpecial because of that? That is really what I was saying. I would like PokeSpecial more either way. It gives me new characters to love each region so that alone makes it better for me without question. I have never gotten sick of any of the Dexholders. I do ask myself if the anime had similar writings would PokeSpecial still be as popular? As a PokeSpecial fan it's a scary thought for me. I love this series.
    I'd say it's 50% of the reason. The other half being that it's very enjoyable. It's just that when I read it, it tends to amaze me with things I never even conceived of or seen on the Anime (as ridiculous as these things can get at times).

    Though it's because of the Anime setting a standard for Pokemon media that fans regard PokeSpe as something special (pun most definitely intended). Hence, you get those annoying fans (not the ones here but other places) which can result in naysayers (see here).

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    I'd say it's 50% of the reason. The other half being that it's very enjoyable. It's just that when I read it, it tends to amaze me with things I never even conceived of or seen on the Anime (as ridiculous as these things can get at times).

    Though it's because of the Anime setting a standard for Pokemon media that fans regard PokeSpe as something special (pun most definitely intended). Hence, you get those annoying fans (not the ones here but other places) which can result in naysayers (see here).
    I felt like laughing when I read the comments on that link. Most of them are sad, very sad.
    I can understand what you mean. I was really surprised with Pokemon special. With the characters, the battles, the plot. It's so different from the games and anime that's why I got hooked up.

    People shouldn't blame the manga when fans dislike the anime and prefer the manga much better. It's reasonable if you want to see a good plot and decent characterization, which isn't present in the anime and saying that it's a kid show is no excuse. Pokemon Special is also aimed towards kids and there plot isn't repetitive or filled with stereotype characters. The anime is pure marketing, because it's the best known franchise. Now sue if it's more known that the games. I hate it when people tend to forget that both manga and anime are based on the games and see any of those as the real canon. Maybe that's another reason why Special is so highly regarded, also marketing. I think they should promote other Pokemon franchises too except for the anime or games. How many people know about the Colosseum manga that was sadly not released in tankoubon?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamingflower View Post
    How many people know about the Colosseum manga that was sadly not released in tankoubon?
    Kusaka even have to write it......

    Although I really do not know about this manga...... XD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trutown View Post
    I think that it is too hyped up. That is not to say that it is bad, just not the greatest thing ever to be written.

    There is no overall plot for the series as a whole that links all of the many story arcs together.

    Whenever a story arc is over, we have to wait for remakes to see past characters again. I don't like to be reminded of THE severe flaw in the gaming industry (no regard for historical preservation). The American comic book system has already surpassed this by having a full blown continuities and having several books that share a universe being published at the same time that lead up to an epic crossover event (like DC's 52 line in 2006).

    The science in the series is even worse than the no-existent science of the Mass Effect series. Kusaka does not understand science AT ALL. Has this man even taken seventh grade science? The way aura works and the way sound works is completely different. He shouldn't explain aura using sound and then establish how it can be taken away using something that would not remove sound. He should not write a battle inside of an active volcano if he does not understand how lava works. He should not write about time travel if he does not understand it. In the same way, he should not write a character to be like Doctor Who (Celebii) if he doesn't understand what makes that series interesting. He should not try to mess with the metaphysics of his own universe by saying that Dialga and Palkia have been dead for thousands of years (you know, even though they are the things keeping time and space together). If Aristotle were alive, he would have some real issues with all of this.
    Dude. It is a freaking Pokemon series. So now Pokemon has to follow the laws of physics? It is a universe where a 200 foot long whale can fit into a palm-sized ball. The series is made for kids, not for astrophysicist nerds who are too uptight to enjoy a simple story about a 10 year old boy who goes out and captures monsters. Seriously. Lol.


    And to answer the original poster, read the Red/Blue/Green volumes (1-3) and you'll understand why PokeSpecial is such a terrific addition to the world of Pokemon. Hidenori Kusaka comes up with the coolest, smartest Pokemon battle scenes, filled with twists and turns (unlike the anime, which is just explosion after explosion, which is cool too, but not smart like Kusaka), the characters are interesting, the plots are complicated, and MOST IMPORTANTLY it portrays the world of Pokemon as it actually would be -- a world filled with danger, where explosive animals and crime syndicates pose real life-threatening danger and keep you on the edge of your seat while you read

    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan.
    I was getting at it's sad that Pokemon Adventures is highly regarded because people lose faith in the anime and turn to this manga. It almost makes half of PokeSpecial's fanbase feel somewhat artificial.
    But what's sad about that? if one storyline is better written than another storyline, then doesn't the better-made one deserve the spotlight?
    Last edited by Cyclone; 25th March 2013 at 5:05 AM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamingflower View Post
    The anime is pure marketing, because it's the best known franchise.
    That and Kusaka seems to focus more on telling a story unlike the Anime. Given that it's just one author and one artist, it's not hard to see how.

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    I find out that Pokemon Reburst is much more popular and loveable than this.........
    Last edited by Ludger; 29th March 2013 at 8:29 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
    Dude. It is a freaking Pokemon series. So now Pokemon has to follow the laws of physics? It is a universe where a 200 foot long whale can fit into a palm-sized ball. The series is made for kids, not for astrophysicist nerds who are too uptight to enjoy a simple story about a 10 year old boy who goes out and captures monsters. Seriously. Lol.
    What you are doing is called the Ad Hominem logical fallacy. It is a common fallacy in which someone argues against a position or claim by attacking the person giving it. I am not an astrophysicist, I am an University student getting a Social Science Degree. I am not uptight, I just like to call out BS when I see it.

    Actually, yeah, the series does have to obey the laws of physics. Let us get one thing straight here: I have nothing against artistic license, and I totally understand that Pokemon Adventures is just a comic book. However, there is this thing called the Audience's Suspension of Disbelief. While it doesn't always have to make sense, in fiction, everything needs to be consistent. When it ceases to do so, the audience's suspension of disbelief vanishes. Kusaka has a bad habit of using actual science to explain something he just made up (which is usually wrong) or completely violates science and does not explain why it is perfectly acceptable in universe (even when the characters react to it like people would in real life). The moment a writer does something like that, he breaks the audience's suspension of disbelief. A good writer would make up an explanation for why a certain thing is okay or not write that thing in at all.

    It is a big problem with Kusaka's writing.

    Let's take the lava example for a spin. Lava, no matter what universe it is in, is always lava. Therefore, no matter what universe lava is in, it always stays at a temperature of 700 to 1,200 °C. If it does not, then it is not lava; it is something else. In the same chapter that Yellow surfs on lava, Lance falls into the lava. When that happens, she assumes that he is dead because when people fall in lava, they die. From that, we can assume that lava is supposed to function in the manga the same way it does in real life. Therefore, she should have been roasted alive when she got close to it. That is a problem. What is the explanation? There isn't one.

    And before you say anything, the creation of the Suspension of Disbelief is the job of the writer, not the reader. Bad writers think that.
    That is not to say that it is not okay to leave the audience with the ability to fill in small blanks that they might find, but authors should NEVER force the audience to fill in the blanks on things that bring an entire scene or plot point into question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
    And to answer the original poster, read the Red/Blue/Green volumes (1-3) and you'll understand why PokeSpecial is such a terrific addition to the world of Pokemon. Hidenori Kusaka comes up with the coolest, smartest Pokemon battle scenes, filled with twists and turns (unlike the anime, which is just explosion after explosion, which is cool too, but not smart like Kusaka), the characters are interesting, the plots are complicated, and MOST IMPORTANTLY it portrays the world of Pokemon as it actually would be -- a world filled with danger, where explosive animals and crime syndicates pose real life-threatening danger and keep you on the edge of your seat while you read
    Volumes 1-3 are horribly paced and contain a LOT of things that don't need to be there. Sure Kusaka writes great battle scenes, but he can't explain his own universe, he doesn't understand metaphysics, he writes bad villains (at least before FRLG), he can't develop characters well (and some characters like Crystal, Yellow, and Sapphire have no development at all), his plots take weird turns where they shouldn't, he often writes himself into a corner, and he has a tendency to write bad endings (the GSC, RS, DP, and HGSS arcs).

    Don't get me wrong, I like Pokemon Adventures and, as I have said before, some of the characters in it are my favorite in fiction (namely Ruby and Platinum because of their development, and I would probably like Sird more if her backstory were explained). My problem is that people only praise the series and don't call it out on its BS. Then Kusaka has the audacity to keep making the same mistakes. Kusaka writes himself into a corner, makes a dues ex machina to get himself out, and I complain. That, or he will write toward what seems to be a good ending, mess it up with a bad reveal (Pryce as a good person that did bad things out of love), and then write a short epilogue to loosely tie up loose ends. It's becoming just as predictable as Mushroom Kingdom politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
    But what's sad about that? if one storyline is better written than another storyline, then doesn't the better-made one deserve the spotlight?
    It is sad because those people turn to this series out of frustration with that series and only like it because they don't like the other series. They don't like it based on its own merits, but based on the mistakes in other parts in the franchise. These are the fans that I hate and often speak bad about.They praise the comic and refuse to listen to some actual criticism about the thing that they love so much.

    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    Though it's because of the Anime setting a standard for Pokemon media that fans regard PokeSpe as something special (pun most definitely intended). Hence, you get those annoying fans (not the ones here but other places) which can result in naysayers (see here).
    From the Merrium Webster Dictionary: "Naysayer: one who denies, refuses, opposes, or is skeptical or cynical about something".

    I don't think being a "naysayer" is such a bad thing. Skepticism makes a lot of sense and is something that philosophers have been doing for thousands of years. If you have a legitimate complaint, you should say it. If someone says something with no evidence to back it up, they should be called out on it. If some claims something to be a fact and you doubt the accuracy of their claim, examine the claim. Everything should be questioned.

    Sure most of the things that the people said in the link are stupid (something being dark is not bad), but I did find some legitimate criticisms of the series in there (although only some), so they are not all bad. I would say we could use some more fans like the ones with the more valid arguments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trutown View Post
    It is a big problem with Kusaka's writing.

    Let's take the lava example for a spin. Lava, no matter what universe it is in, is always lava. Therefore, no matter what universe lava is in, it always stays at a temperature of 700 to 1,200 °C. If it does not, then it is not lava; it is something else. In the same chapter that Yellow surfs on lava, Lance falls into the lava. When that happens, she assumes that he is dead because when people fall in lava, they die. From that, we can assume that lava is supposed to function in the manga the same way it does in real life. Therefore, she should have been roasted alive when she got close to it. That is a problem. What is the explanation? There isn't one.
    If Magcargo can be composed by lava, even Torchic's belly has thousand degree flame,

    why Yellow can not to use the surfboard manufacture by Substitute fighting on the magma even other mangas have similar plot? lol
    Last edited by e9310103838; 30th March 2013 at 3:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by e9310103838 View Post
    If Magcargo can be composed by lava, even Torchic's belly has thousand degree flame,

    why Yellow can not to use the surfboard manufacture by Substitute fighting on the magma even other mangas have similar plot? lol
    We are talking about an active volcano here, not Pokemon. Magcargo and Torchic might (although it is never actually stated) have some control over energy output or something. That, or bad physics is just something that is common throughout the whole franchise. Also, in the original Pokedex entries (Gold and Silver), it was not stated that Magcargo was composed of lava. It is also of note that Macargo is not a lava flow.

    Also, it really doesn't matter what the surfboard Yellow is surfing on is made off. An active lava flow melts everything in its path and sets fire to things around it. Assuming heat convection did not exist, Pika's substitute would melt the moment it touched the lava because it is a copy of a WOODEN surf board. The amount of heat from the lava flow would give her a heat stroke and then she would fall in an catch fire (you don't actually sink in lava, you kinda float and then catch fire). If you take the toxic lava haze into account, then she should have died from acid poisoning in the eyes, respiratory center, and skin (also assuming no heat convection or radiation). In reality, the heat radiation would have killed her in less than a minute (even less for Lance) as the heat would transfer into her body, raise her body temperature over 40°C, and then give her a very short and very lethal case Hyperthermia.

    In summary, even if the surf board was made out of some unmeltable magic material, she would still die.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trutown View Post
    If you take the toxic lava haze into account, then she should have died from acid poisoning in the eyes, respiratory center, and skin (also assuming no heat convection or radiation). In reality, the heat radiation would have killed her in less than a minute (even less for Lance) as the heat would transfer into her body, raise her body temperature over 40°C, and then give her a very short and very lethal case Hyperthermia.
    But what if she is protected by her power(Considering "Yellow's Magic powers" could protect her at "Magic Moment", so she wouldn't die that way). Yeah the powers might not have exist because considering this contradiction part when Yellow doesn't protected by her power when she was petrified, but the powers might also not want to protect Yellow at that time(Considering the facts that the powers is "A living soul").
    The writers I think should write explanation rather than just entertaining. Agree with you that Villains should have more character developement like Cyrus or Giovanni even though in my opinion Cyrus express more developement I think. It would be fun if there are a villain like Sird/Saque but what I dont like from this manga is that the writer makes Pokedex Owners "Golden Children" and much less Villains PoV

    Quote Originally Posted by Manga Reader X View Post
    Then there are some people who think that Pokémon Special is all about violence and even there's even someone who says that he loves the anime and hates PokéSpe because Pokémon manga "attracts all kind of bad people".
    Not offending but I think its just people don't understand it was a typhical characteristic of shonen manga and people just wants to protect their opinion by expressing subjectivity rather than crictical comments.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fake Psychic View Post
    But what if she is protected by her power(Considering "Yellow's Magic powers" could protect her at "Magic Moment", so she wouldn't die that way). Yeah the powers might not have exist because considering this contradiction part when Yellow doesn't protected by her power when she was petrified, but the powers might also not want to protect Yellow at that time(Considering the facts that the powers is "A living soul").
    The writers I think should write explanation rather than just entertaining. Agree with you that Villains should have more character developement like Cyrus or Giovanni even though in my opinion Cyrus express more developement I think. It would be fun if there are a villain like Sird/Saque but what I dont like from this manga is that the writer makes Pokedex Owners "Golden Children" and much less Villains PoV
    Was it ever explained that Yellow's powers were protecting her? Was it ever explained that Yellow's powers protect her from certain death experiences? No, it wasn't. Now, I am a firm believer in the concept of "Show Don't Tell", but after you show something like that, you need to have, at the least, a short explanation. All Yellow or Lance had to say was, "My powers protect me from stuff like this" and it would have been fine (for the most part).

    I don't ever recall the powers being described as a "living soul". The powers don't seem to have a will of their own, so that seems implausible.

    I have nothing against what happened with Cyrus. I liked what happened with Cyrus. Cyrus saw something wrong with the world around him and wanted to fix it, but he did it in a way that was morally wrong. When he realized that he was wrong, he rejected his former beliefs in favor of the truth. What I did not like is how the Galactic Commanders made a Heel Face Turn. They were great villains (that reminded me of Batman villains) and were great foils to the main characters. Mars was like the Joker (who has no sense of objective morality, has no morals, and is a psychopath) with Dia as her foil (Who believes in moral objectivity, has upstanding morals, and is completely sane), Saturn was like the early Golden Age Mr. Freeze (he used technology to fight, he was lazy and undriven, and he preferred kidnapping for ransom to get money instead of patenting his technology) with Pearl as his foil (he fought his own battles, he was extremely driven, and very intelligent), and Jupiter was like Bane (strong, physically imposing, and ruthlessly intelligent) with Platinum as her foil (strong, powerful but not physically imposing, and very intelligent). The problem is why would someone like Mars (who I believe to be based on the Joker through cold, hard speculation), then why would she make such a turn? The Joker only ever became a "good guy" when Batman was a) dead or b) a criminal. Since Mars' foil is Dia, who is still a good guy, she should stay as a villain. The fact that this turn came out of nowhere made it even worse.

    Giovanni was just confusing, so we will skip over him.

    Pryce's revealed motivations, and his "Pokemon are meant to be loved" speech ruined him as a villain for me. His stance on how Pokemon were "weapons" while he was at the Pokemon League was great for characterization. It gives the impression that he was dark, menacing, and willing to destroy everything that got in between him and his goals. If he had had a better goal, then he would have been an amazing villain. As it is though, his actions and his motivations do not equalize.

    Maxie and Archie are one dimensional villains. Their subordinates on the other hand were more interesting, more entertaining to watch, and more developed.

    I think that I would like Sird more if she was explored more. Where did she get her abilities? What are her motivations? Is she only there to advance the plot and give an excuse for stuff (which would be bad), or is she a part of something bigger (which would be good)? Is she an incompetent villain that ruins the plans of the organization she works for (platina would have never known about the Galactic Bomb if Sird didn't tell her), or a manipulative mastermind that is trying to destroy organizations like Team Rocket, Guile Hideout, and Team Galactic by helping their enemies to serve a greater purpose? She has a lot of potential to be a great villain, but these things need to be explained.

    I have nothing against the story being told from the protagonist point of view, but they need to be developed. They shouldn't be like Gold and Crystal (who learned nothing from what they went through in GSC). Protagonist should be like Ruby. They should have flaws that make them complicated, they should have definite goals in mind that they fulfill, and they should develop into the role of "hero". Ruby was a selfish prick who evolved into a selfless hero. He is the most real person in the Dex Holders because he is the most like us. He doesn't want to be involved in the conflict and he would rather it resolve itself far away from him, but eventually he realizes that he needs to do what is right and assist in any way that he can. When that "Day Unlike Any Other" comes, he will help because it is the right thing to do. He doesn't want to be a hero, he just wants to do the right thing. He even learns that fighting is not a bad thing and is sometimes necessary.

    That is the kind of story that resonates with people. People need heroes. People need models to aspire too. When a person loses faith, he needs someone, fictional or non-fictional, to be his role model.

    In order for that to happen though, people need to see why that character can be a role model. If that isn't done, then the need for the character isn't there. Gold is no role model; he is a selfish prick, and shows no indication of changing any time soon.
    Crystal is no role model; she isn't complex and she doesn't change. Does that mean that we should never change? May it never be! We should always be changing a learning as we go on with our lives.
    Sapphire is no role model; she is an overtly violent person with no appreciation for the fine arts and she stays that way even after the journey is over. Sapphire never learns that people can find meaning in more than just their strength, and she ridicules people who have different passions than her.

    Sure, Crystal and Sapphire do the right thing on that day unlike any other (Gold only ever does things for himself, so he doesn't count), but I still wouldn't want my children to be like them. I would like them to be like Ruby, because he is a real role model to aspire to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trutown View Post
    I have nothing against the story being told from the protagonist point of view, but they need to be developed. They shouldn't be like Gold and Crystal (who learned nothing from what they went through in GSC). Protagonist should be like Ruby. They should have flaws that make them complicated, they should have definite goals in mind that they fulfill, and they should develop into the role of "hero". Ruby was a selfish prick who evolved into a selfless hero. He is the most real person in the Dex Holders because he is the most like us. He doesn't want to be involved in the conflict and he would rather it resolve itself far away from him, but eventually he realizes that he needs to do what is right and assist in any way that he can. When that "Day Unlike Any Other" comes, he will help because it is the right thing to do. He doesn't want to be a hero, he just wants to do the right thing. He even learns that fighting is not a bad thing and is sometimes necessary.

    That is the kind of story that resonates with people. People need heroes. People need models to aspire too. When a person loses faith, he needs someone, fictional or non-fictional, to be his role model.

    In order for that to happen though, people need to see why that character can be a role model. If that isn't done, then the need for the character isn't there. Gold is no role model; he is a selfish prick, and shows no indication of changing any time soon.
    Crystal is no role model; she isn't complex and she doesn't change. Does that mean that we should never change? May it never be! We should always be changing a learning as we go on with our lives.
    Sapphire is no role model; she is an overtly violent person with no appreciation for the fine arts and she stays that way even after the journey is over. Sapphire never learns that people can find meaning in more than just their strength, and she ridicules people who have different passions than her.

    Sure, Crystal and Sapphire do the right thing on that day unlike any other (Gold only ever does things for himself, so he doesn't count), but I still wouldn't want my children to be like them. I would like them to be like Ruby, because he is a real role model to aspire to.
    Okay, I agree with you on how that sort of protagonist makes for a good story but I disagree on how you seem to say it's the ONLY acceptable way (at least, it comes off that way to me). I actually Crys and Sapphire even if they're character arc isn't just like Ruby's. It's hard to explain but I'm not one to restrict myself to just one form of storytelling (or character-writing) and I don't think all main characters have to have Heroic BSODs or 10 minute retirements or be Mind Raped to be proper "main characters."

    I hope you understand what I'm getting at. I agree with you that Gold (if anyone) could've benefited from the kind of development you mentioned but aside from that, I don't think it's the only way to write a protagonist. You're smart and all but this sort of thinking kinda make you come off as though you can't accept anyone else's opinion on this matter. In that sense, you're kinda like Ruby himself (pre-development).
    Last edited by matt0044; 2nd April 2013 at 7:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trutown View Post
    Sure, Crystal and Sapphire do the right thing on that day unlike any other (Gold only ever does things for himself, so he doesn't count), but I still wouldn't want my children to be like them. I would like them to be like Ruby, because he is a real role model to aspire to.
    But I want my child like Dia. XD

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    Okay, I agree with you on how that sort of protagonist makes for a good story but I disagree on how you seem to say it's the ONLY acceptable way (at least, it comes off that way to me). I actually Crys and Sapphire even if they're character arc isn't just like Ruby's. It's hard to explain but I'm not one to restrict myself to just one form of storytelling (or character-writing) and I don't think all main characters have to have Heroic BSODs or 10 minute retirements or be Mind Raped to be proper "main characters."

    I hope you understand what I'm getting at. I agree with you that Gold (if anyone) could've benefited from the kind of development you mentioned but aside from that, I don't think it's the only way to write a protagonist. You're smart and all but this sort of thinking kinda make you come off as though you can't accept anyone else's opinion on this matter. In that sense, you're kinda like Ruby himself (pre-development).
    I know that is not the only way to write a protagonist. I was giving an example. My problem with Crys and Sapphire is not that their character arcs are different to Ruby's, but that they don't have character arcs at all. Crystal is the same at the end of her journey as she was at the beginning and Sapphire learned nothing after what she went through (despite the fact that she almost died).

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    For me, I think the PokéSpecial is highly regarded is that it's THE Pokémon Manga. This is mainly since it's so constant with the plot of the games but with little twists thrown in to make it unique. Twists like the Yellow arc in general, the Mask of Ice and Neo Team Rocket in the GSC arc, Ruby and Sapphire's 80 Day Challange in the RS arc, Deoxy's role in FRLG arc and Arceus in HGSS arc , and the most bit of the Emerald arc with Gulie Hideout and Jirachi are a good example of some. That plus the fact that Kusaka-san (or maybe even Satoshi-san) saying that every Pokémon fan should read it. And, The majority of the manga that the fanbase reads is this series.

    I honestly have to say that I actually prefer to read the series over most of the Pokémon manga (most any other book series to be frank) out there since of the fact the story arcs are interesting and are a pretty good read.

    Besides, Another main reason that the manga is highly regarded is since it's more well known than some. It's like how the Yankees are when you talk Baseball and the Lakers and or Celtics when you talk about Basketball.

    there's no Battle Frontier?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaAuraWolf View Post
    For me, I think the PokéSpecial is highly regarded is that it's THE Pokémon Manga. This is mainly since it's so constant with the plot of the games but with little twists thrown in to make it unique. Twists like the Yellow arc in general, the Mask of Ice and Neo Team Rocket in the GSC arc, Ruby and Sapphire's 80 Day Challange in the RS arc, Deoxy's role in FRLG arc and Arceus in HGSS arc , and the most bit of the Emerald arc with Gulie Hideout and Jirachi are a good example of some. That plus the fact that Kusaka-san (or maybe even Satoshi-san) saying that every Pokémon fan should read it. And, The majority of the manga that the fanbase reads is this series.

    I honestly have to say that I actually prefer to read the series over most of the Pokémon manga (most any other book series to be frank) out there since of the fact the story arcs are interesting and are a pretty good read.

    Besides, Another main reason that the manga is highly regarded is since it's more well known than some. It's like how the Yankees are when you talk Baseball and the Lakers and or Celtics when you talk about Basketball.
    No it's not, it's just the best known Pokemon manga in the fandom. There is no THE Pokemon manga.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamingflower View Post
    No it's not, it's just the best known Pokemon manga in the fandom. There is no THE Pokemon manga.
    Just for the record, the most popular manga in Japan is that Pocket Monsters gag manga. PokeSpe apparently doesn't have very impressive sales figures in Japan, either.


    98% of the teenage population has died smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature.
    Good old natural selection...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honeyichigo View Post
    Just for the record, the most popular manga in Japan is that Pocket Monsters gag manga.
    Wish it could come to the US.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    Wish it could come to the US.
    As do I, but apparently penis jokes in kids stuff don't fly in America. :P


    98% of the teenage population has died smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature.
    Good old natural selection...

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