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Thread: Is our Protagonist too weak?

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    I think the destiny of this show is for Ash to never really improve just stay at a constant in-between trainer. Maybe it's just a cold reminder that even if you set your mind to something, your not always gonna be able to accomplish it.
    I sincerely doubt the writers could ever come up with something like that or competently execute it well.
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  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by deathseer View Post
    I sincerely doubt the writers could ever come up with something like that or competently execute it well.
    Deathseer knows the writers too well! XD.
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  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwail8023 View Post
    (Johto League Champions was BORING though
    Hey, I loved Johto League Champions :P

    Otherwise, I agree with ya.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwail8023 View Post
    Deathseer knows the writers too well! XD.
    Know your enemy, they always say.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by marioluigifan05 View Post
    Hey, I loved Johto League Champions :P

    Otherwise, I agree with ya.
    Oh, I do too, I just feel Johto Journeys and Master Quest are better, that's all.

    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    Know your enemy, they always say.
    Too true, too true.
    Opinions Regarding the Pokémon:
    1. Anime: OS > AG > BW > DP > XY
    2. Movies: OS = AG > DP = BW = XY
    3. English Dub: 4Kids Entertainment/TAJ Productions (EP001-EP276; AG001-AG020) = 4Kids Entertainment (AG021-AG145) = TPCi/SDI Media (The Origin)/Very Good > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (BW)/Poor > PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions (AG146-AG192)/Very Poor > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (XY) = PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions/DuArt Film & Video (DP)/Atrocious
    4. Games: XY > BW1 > BW2 > RSE > GSC > Y > HGSS > DP > RBG
    5. Pokémon: The Origin: Excellent: 93/100.
    6. Manga: RS > RB > Y > FRLG > XY > BW > E > DP > GSC
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  6. #156
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    Until Ash actually emotes something other than "happy-go-lucky", then an idea like that would never come to fruition. If Ash actually got upset at his losses and slowly begins to realize that after all of his failures, that he may not be cut out for being a Pokemon Master, then it would be really interesting. Sort of how like Gary realized that being a Trainer just wasn't suiting him but actually built upon and not just made out of nowhere. Show him actually getting upset when he loses and wonders why he isn't doing as well as he thought he would. Stop having him try to be everyone's friend and have him actually care about the competition.

    Personally, it sounds like a pretty good idea and can make an easy transition to another goal that is actually obtainable rather than the vague Pokemon Master goal that they have no clear intention of actually revealing what it is. But if my gut tells me anything, its that a "Pokemon Master" is a subjective term. Sort how like in stories where they say the hero will find a great treasure at the end of his journey, only for him to realize that the real treasure was the journey and the friends he made along the way. I have always called BS on stories like that, since its like going on an arduous journey, only to be kicked in the balls at the very end.

    I say just give Ash the Frontier brain spot he was offered and end his "journey" already.
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  7. #157
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    Ash becomes a better trainer each time he uses an old pokemon, he's just not used to new stuff.

    That's why he always grabs Pikachu to any new region xD
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  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by ludiloco View Post
    Ash becomes a better trainer each time he uses an old pokemon, he's just not used to new stuff.
    It's more like his old Pokemon have a lot of experience, which makes them more competent in battles. But that doesn't mean that Ash always wins with them; he can still make mistakes like when he ordered Charizard to use Seismic Toss against a Ghost-type and lost the match as a result.

  9. #159
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    What's annoying is that he got better in AG and DP and now he seems weaker than he was in Johto

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    The sad truth is that Ash will probably never win a league *sadface*

    I find it sad that ash's Unova Team is probably the weakest team he had in the franchise. Although I don't see how evolution to Oshawott would help, I would've liked it if the team got more development. In AG and DP, he wasn't too weak, and is constantly reminded in DP that there is always stronger trainers (Cynthia & Paul) while AG he was never really too proud.

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  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by thunderblade12 View Post
    What's annoying is that he got better in AG and DP and now he seems weaker than he was in Johto
    Exactly. in DP, Ash seemed more compitant as a trainer, but now, it's like his mind was wiped and he forgot how to fight.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by deathseer View Post
    I have always called BS on stories like that, since its like going on an arduous journey, only to be kicked in the balls at the very end.
    God, that was hilarious. XD

  13. #163
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    I agree that Ash not winning some battles he should is unfortunate. There should be battles which definitely show that he is also just a beatable trainer but sometimes you wait for some awesome moments and then the hero you have had in your childhood loses again. He has a variety of characteristics which make him a likeable and deep character such as really showing how much he cares about his Pokémon and loves them. He even wanted to release Pikachu just so it can be happy with other Pikachus. Still, while I totally understand and like the concept of a hero who fails and learns there should be more big success moments. The Indigo League was very sad but it pretty much was necessary. Nevertheless it does not need to be like that in almost every league.

    And yet Ash shows how badash/s he really is in the movies all the time and I personally love that.
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  14. #164
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    BW is terrible compared to AG and DP.

    They made Ash way more incompetent than he should be at this stage after all that traveling.

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    They make him weak so that he doesn't destroy every young trainer in the show the writers introduce. Otherwise the series would be boring if he one hit KO's everything. Still it's no excuse for what they do with him. I don't even think the writers know which direction to go with him anymore.
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  16. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    They make him weak so that he doesn't destroy every young trainer in the show the writers introduce. Otherwise the series would be boring if he one hit KO's everything. Still it's no excuse for what they do with him. I don't even think the writers know which direction to go with him anymore.
    If only he was like Zoey with more screentime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    They make him weak so that he doesn't destroy every young trainer in the show the writers introduce. Otherwise the series would be boring if he one hit KO's everything. Still it's no excuse for what they do with him. I don't even think the writers know which direction to go with him anymore.
    Which is why I think Ash needs to meet more trainers like Paul; experienced trainers who can keep Ash on his toes and make him a better trainer by pressuring him to get stronger.

  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Platinum fan. View Post
    They make him weak so that he doesn't destroy every young trainer in the show the writers introduce. Otherwise the series would be boring if he one hit KO's everything. Still it's no excuse for what they do with him. I don't even think the writers know which direction to go with him anymore.
    Just put le Pikachu on the back burner for awhile and there you go -_-, problem solved.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciccone View Post
    Which is why I think Ash needs to meet more trainers like Paul; experienced trainers who can keep Ash on his toes and make him a better trainer by pressuring him to get stronger.
    Exactly. A newbie trainer can't make a good rival for Ash, not because it wouldn't be a challenge, but because it'd make Ash don't train to hard and therefore lower his level as a trainer. That's why Trip wasn't a good rival. I hope next gen Ash has an experienced trainer as a rival, and if they don't know how to make up a good one, bring back Gary or Paul. But please, not another newbie.

  20. #170
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    Next time if the writers are gonna pull a Tobias on us, at least have the decency to put him in the first episode so we know from the beginning to not want ash to win.

  21. #171
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    Even if they do give him another Paul, the writers will still want a young rookie trainer in the series. It seems to be their favorite character to focus on. Look at all the focus Dawn got as a rookie but when they start building experience on her they back off. The writers love to have young trainers on the show, sometimes they make Ash represent them like in BW. I'm not saying it's good but it's what happens. It's another reason you won't see another trainer on the main cast go for Gyms, because you just know there will be a time when Ash fails and the young trainer doesn't and fans will cry BS. And in these tournaments, if the rookie somehow beat Ash or his rival, it would look unreal, yet it's not fair to the young trainer to always have to be put below Ash and the rival every tournament. There's a lot of factors into why they do it, and it before anyone says don't add a young trainer, if they don't add a young trainer then Ash will fit that category by default. So pick your poison.
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  22. #172
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    I still think that Iris and Cilan could've been the rookies for BW with Ash helping them.

  23. #173
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    Considering how Ash will forever be the protagonist as long as the Pokemon games remain popular, I was never disappointed by his progress and development as a trainer until BW. From beginning of Kanto - end of Sinnoh, Ash only became better.

    Kanto: Top 16; If not for Charizard, he would have made Top 8. Seeing how Ritchie took Assunta down to her last Pokemon, we could theoretically assume that Ash would have done the same, or perhaps even have won.
    Orange Islands: Champion
    Johto: Top 8; He almost beat Harrison. Harrison took Jon Dickson (the eventual Champion) down to his last Pokemon without even using Blaziken (his strongest Pokemon); it's very possible that if Harrison had Blaziken, he would have beaten Dickson. Ash is basically on the same level as Dickson, more or less.
    Hoenn: Top 8; He almost beat Tyson, the eventual Champion.
    Battle Frontier: Champion; Offered to be Frontier Brain (basically he's Frontier Brain caliber)
    Sinnoh: Top 4; He defeated two legendaries and nobody in the entire Sinnoh League could even defeat Darkrai; Basically the best trainer in all of Sinnoh barring the Elite 4 and Tobias.

    In each region, he only got better and became more experienced/strategic. Ash was Frontier Brain level by the end of Hoenn, and became even better in Sinnoh. That's a long way from what he was in the beginning of the show.

    I agree, it would be nice for Ash to once in a while stomp up and coming trainers in filler episodes. However, I don't mind that in league conferences, every match of his goes down to the wire.

    Why not? Because every trainer in the league also received 8 badges (that Ash worked very hard to obtain) and are equally as capable. So each match should technically be challenging.


    Of course, BW ruined the continuity by giving Ash a 'reset,' but that's already well discussed and complained about.
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  24. #174
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    We got a look in DP how strong Ash has become.
    But, BW just changed all that effort in to nothing. It's like he's starting off again.
    Looking back at his arsenal, he has loads of powerhouses.
    His BW team needs a mass amount of quick evolutions.

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  25. #175
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    Again. No one is asking for Ash to just one hit KO every Trainer he meets. We just want more consistency from. Show that he is actually progressing towards a goal instead of having always lose under the guise of "Well, there's always something he can learn".
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