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Thread: Is our Protagonist too weak?

  1. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciccone View Post
    Which is why I think Ash needs to meet more trainers like Paul; experienced trainers who can keep Ash on his toes and make him a better trainer by pressuring him to get stronger.
    You act as if the writers would ever do something like that.

    The writers are going to keep Ash weak, and never portray Ash as someone who can become a Pokemon master.

    They'd rather Ash lose constantly, and win only when it counts (like gyms), than give Ash a better win/loss ratio.
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  2. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by dman_dustin View Post
    You act as if the writers would ever do something like that.

    The writers are going to keep Ash weak, and never portray Ash as someone who can become a Pokemon master.

    They'd rather Ash lose constantly, and win only when it counts (like gyms), than give Ash a better win/loss ratio.
    He has an unrealistic goal, I mean, after all...a Pokemon Master is something supposedly above even a Champion/Champion Master. They're just not interested in developing him anymore obviously...so he'll continue the endless cycle. When he uses his older Pokemon he at least feels more competent.
    Last edited by Graham Aker; 11th March 2013 at 2:22 AM.

  3. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Aker View Post
    He has an unrealistic goal, I mean, after all...a Pokemon Master is something supposedly above even a Champion/Champion Master. They're just not interested in developing him anymore obviously...so he'll continue the endless cycle. When he uses his older Pokemon he at least feels more competent.

    I thought Pokemon Master referred to anyone who is a Master Trainer. So that would include Elite 4 and Champions.


    What I'm most frustrated about was the fact that there was no need to nerf Ash after DP. The show puts Elite 4 and Champions in godlike tier; their Pokemon can tank any sort of damage and OHKO the opponent's. BW should have continued with post-DP Ash starting to push their level.


    Instead of the traditional "acquire 8 badges, go to league" plotline, the writers could have done something innovative. Perhaps offer an alternative route to enter the league, like say...win 5 Battle Tower challenges or something. Or even introduce the concept of 'elite gyms' (some gyms being far harder to obtain badges from), and have Ash competing in those.

    It seems the writers decided to cop out and take the easy route by basically making Kanto/Johto 2 with Ash sucking.

    And what I hated the most was how cheerful Ash was when he lost in the league.
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  4. #179
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    A pokemon master I gather is simply the best trainer in the world as accepted by an overwhelming significant proportion of the population. Kind of like the fame of ivy league schools in the US translated over to pokemon.

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    Then I demand the anime to show us the first ever Pokemon Master, if such a person even exists.

  6. #181
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    Master definitely has to be E4, Champion, or trainers who have beaten them. That's at least a realistic goal for Ash and something that can be depicted by show's end.
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  7. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maldread View Post
    Master definitely has to be E4, Champion, or trainers who have beaten them. That's at least a realistic goal for Ash and something that can be depicted by show's end.
    At the end of DP Ash said being a Champion is only a "step" to becoming a Pokemon Master. So yeah, based on that a "Pokemon Master" is probably someone whose stronger than a champion.

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    If you are a master then pretty much everyone in the world knows your name from birth and recognizes you as the best like no one ever was.

  9. #184
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    Again. Show that one actually exits, then you can speculate on what one is.

    You can make comparisons to other things all you want. But not once in the entire run have we ever actually seen a Pokemon Master. So you can't really say how one becomes one.
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  10. #185
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    I'm probably the only one here who never read much into the whole Pokemon Master thing, it just seemed like a "big shounen dream" like becoming Hokage or becoming the King of the Pirates. Way too vague, extravagant, and unreachable to be taken seriously.

  11. #186

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    Oh wait, I got it.

    One name: Tobias.

  12. #187
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    Yes, he struggles against weak pokemon that even the average trainer should be able to flatten within seconds. But then again, pokemon in the anime seem to be able to take more hits and since Ash refuses to play types, he has shown that pokemon in the anime can also easilly defeat pokemon which they should be weak against. The writers love to turn the table with Ash and expecially pikachu but there's no doubt that he's a weak, stupid trainer. If only he played types and was able to win in creative ways, then he would be a more interesting protagonist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AuraChannelerChris View Post
    Oh wait, I got it.

    One name: Tobias.
    I was thinking someone who appears, whoops both Tobias' and Cynthia's full teams with one Pokemon(more than likely one from an unknown region we'll never get to see) then fades into oblivion for the rest of time. Sort of like Tobias' appearance, but farrr stronger.

    Tobias, as strong as he is, wouldn't be close enough to Pokemon Master status if Ash can defeat two of his Pokemon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doryuzu View Post
    I'm probably the only one here who never read much into the whole Pokemon Master thing, it just seemed like a "big shounen dream" like becoming Hokage or becoming the King of the Pirates. Way too vague, extravagant, and unreachable to be taken seriously.
    The thing is, There have been multiple Hokages and at least one confirmed Pirate King. There is no mistake that Gold Roger was the King of Pirates or that Minato was the Fourth Hokage. They are goals that can be obtained because there is irrefutable proof that they exist. Yet never have we actually seen a Pokemon Master, nor can we even confirm that one exist other than word of mouth.

    For all of Ash's "I'm going to be a Pokemon Master!", I doubt he's ever even seen one, and its just a story passed down to young kids in hopes of becoming Pokemon Trainers.
    Last edited by deathseer; 11th March 2013 at 9:16 AM.
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  15. #190

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chriiis View Post

    Tobias, as strong as he is, wouldn't be close enough to Pokemon Master status if Ash can defeat two of his Pokemon.
    We don't know, maybe these two were actually one of his weakest Pokemon out of the 6. He could have a Lugia (There are many of them in the Pokemon World), Deoxys and Rayquaza (Same case as Lugia) storen somewhere. Judging by the Saiko Everyday opening that may hint something, he had an Entei too.

  16. #191
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    I would like Ash to either have another seasoned trainer as his rival to push him more or start his next journey off the bat with a new pokemon, whether it be a starter or something else. It would be nice if his first battle in a region wasn't with Pikachu. That way when he loses (which we all know he will) then he can at least have some growth. Pikachu needs to stay on the bench for a while too.

    He could always beat his new rival in the beginning of the series and then that would cause them to train harder and eventually beat Ash. Since he is an experienced trainer, even with a new pokemon he could have some strategies that would outsmart his opponent. A region where Ash is experienced and would play devils advocate to his new rookie rival would be cool. With him always beating his rival and the role reversed where his rival would want to always battle him.

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  17. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by deathseer View Post
    Again. Show that one actually exits, then you can speculate on what one is.

    You can make comparisons to other things all you want. But not once in the entire run have we ever actually seen a Pokemon Master. So you can't really say how one becomes one.
    It's obviously Ash's dad *trollface*

    I would argue that the pokemon champion's are the closest thing we have at this point.
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  18. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by deathseer View Post
    The thing is, There have been multiple Hokages and at least one confirmed Pirate King. There is no mistake that Gold Roger was the King of Pirates or that Minato was the Fourth Hokage. They are goals that can be obtained because there is irrefutable proof that they exist. Yet never have we actually seen a Pokemon Master, nor can we even confirm that one exist other than word of mouth.

    For all of Ash's "I'm going to be a Pokemon Master!", I doubt he's ever even seen one, and its just a story passed down to young kids in hopes of becoming Pokemon Trainers.
    I was about to reply since the Hokage dream isn't vague at all and they even showed how you become one. So to compare it to Pokemon Master in terms of vagueness is flat out silly. But you covered it already.

    I doubt we'll ever see a Pokemon Master in the show. Would Cynthia qualify as one? She's near perfect in everywhere.
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  19. #194
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    Cynthia may be the closest thing to a Pokemon Master as we are going to get, similar to how Edward Newgate (Whitebeard) in One Piece was the closest to becoming the next Pirate King.

    Although for now, the only thing we can confirm is that she is a Champion and nothing else really. If anyone had a clue as to what a Pokemon Master even is, it might be her.
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  20. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by deathseer View Post
    Cynthia may be the closest thing to a Pokemon Master as we are going to get, similar to how Edward Newgate (Whitebeard) in One Piece was the closest to becoming the next Pirate King.

    Although for now, the only thing we can confirm is that she is a Champion and nothing else really. If anyone had a clue as to what a Pokemon Master even is, it might be her.

    Yeah, Cynthia is pretty much perfect. And she is also the Champion that has appeared the most in the series. I actually envision the show's potential ending final battle being between Ash and Cynthia, where Charizard throws down Garchomp after an epic duel to make Ash the next Champion.
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  21. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maldread View Post
    Yeah, Cynthia is pretty much perfect. And she is also the Champion that has appeared the most in the series. I actually envision the show's potential ending final battle being between Ash and Cynthia, where Charizard throws down Garchomp after an epic duel to make Ash the next Champion.
    Really? Cause I see it as Ash winning with his partner Pikachu (the one he truly relies on in a jam)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    Really? Cause I see it as Ash winning with his partner Pikachu (the one he truly relies on in a jam)
    Psh, it'll be Infernape vs Garchomp in the battle with Cynthia. :P

  23. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Aker View Post
    Psh, it'll be Infernape vs Garchomp in the battle with Cynthia. :P
    Are you trying to reference the whole Flint vs Cynthia from the DP finale? XD
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  24. #199
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    Well, they made it a point to show the similarities between Flint and Ash, so I wouldn't be surprised if Infernape was the last one standing against Cynthia. If it was Pikachu against Garchomp, it'd be pretty obvious that he is going to lose the battle.
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  25. #200
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    Lol Pikachu vs Garchomp would be so funny to watch.

    The rodent spamming Iron tail and quick attack while the dragon laughs at his face xD
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