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Thread: Underrated Pokemon

  1. #126
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    And besides, the majority of the Scizor are banded, or IIRC. A Banded BP only 4HKOs Max Def/HP Hippo, and can 3HKO the same Scizor with EQ. The main thing that Hippo has over banded Scizor is the ability to use a recovery move. In a 1v1 situation, Hippo can beat Scizor with just Slack Off/Earthquake. Out of 1v1, a U-Turn doesn't really do much to Hippo, it also 4HKO. Hippo can even take a CC from Banded Terra and EQ it back.

    Hippo works best with hazards IMO. You can constantly whirl stuff out, like an incoming Keldeo to a Scizor. Or a Latias to a Garchomp. Its definitely not the attacker like T-tar, but it can still work pretty well, especially with spikes and rocks.

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  2. #127
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    ^So basically sandstall. (Whirlwind + Spikes + SR + Sand Stream)

    Another underrated Pokemon is Machamp, with that 130 Attack, STAB DynamicPunch, No Guard and coverage moves such as Ice Punch and Stone Edge, as well as priority in the form of Bullet Punch and the ability to beat Alakazam and other psychic-types bar Slowbro and Reuniclus(provided they run Psyshock) with Payback. Machamp works great as an attacking lead.

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by UbersSuck20 View Post
    ^So basically sandstall. (Whirlwind + Spikes + SR + Sand Stream)

    Another underrated Pokemon is Machamp, with that 130 Attack, STAB DynamicPunch, No Guard and coverage moves such as Ice Punch and Stone Edge, as well as priority in the form of Bullet Punch and the ability to beat Alakazam and other psychic-types bar Slowbro and Reuniclus(provided they run Psyshock) with Payback. Machamp works great as an attacking lead.
    Problem: Machamp is outclassed by Conkledurr in almost every way except for having a No Guard Dynamic Punch. Conkledurr literally does anything else it does (except for maybe dent dragons because Machamp has Dual Chop at it's disposal and that Machamp is slightly faster) better thanks to having more Attack and Sheer Force. Priority Mach Punch and coverage? Conk has them and it can fire them off at a much higher power. What about it's bulk? Conkledurr does a better job at tanking special attacks and can hurt psychics back with its own Payback at greater power.
    Simply, the only reason it is viable in OU (and in UU) is that it has a No Guard Dynamicpunch. Everywhere else, even in UU, it is outclassed by the likes of Heracross and Conkledurr.
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  4. #129
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    ^Have you ever used Machamp?

    Machamp is not outclassed by Conkeldurr. The latter has 4 moveslot syndrome. Conkeldurr wants Bulk Up, Drain Punch, Mach Punch, Ice Punch and Payback. If no Bulk Up, then Drain Punch doesn't hit hard enough unless Conkeldurr uses a Flame Orb, and I can't remember the last time I saw a status orb Conkeldurr set. So we'll consider a Bulk Up set. Conkeldurr absolutely needs priority, like Machamp(and by the way Machamp can finish off ghosts that have about 10-15% health left, something Conkeldurr could only dream of.). And now we have 1 slot left, and this is where 4MSS comes into play. If using Payback, Conkeldurr does jack **** to Landorus-T, Gliscor, Dragonite and stuff like that. If Ice Punch, it has no answer to Jellicent and bulkier Psychic-types. And let's not forget Conkeldurr has counters that laugh in its face no matter what set it runs, such as SubCM Jirachi, Slowbro, Reuniclus, SubDisable Gengar unless the player predicts correctly, and Skarmory.
    Machamp, however, doesn't need a status orb, and DynamicPunch means Machamp has no true counters(Machamp can beat even Reuniclus and Slowbro if the player is lucky.) Machamp can afford to use both Ice Punch and Payback, unlike Conkeldurr.

    Machamp and Conkeldurr serve two different purposes. Machamp is meant to be an attacking lead, Conkeldurr is not. Conkeldurr is a wallbreaker if using a status orb and a late-game sweeper if using Bulk Up. Machamp's role in OU is to cause as much damage as possible in the early-game before going down. Attacking Lead Machamp synergizes well with any late-game cleaner, especially mixed Salamence.

    And lolDualChopMachamp. Machamp has Ice Punch and many dragons are 4x weak to Ice.

  5. #130
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    From my own experience in doubles, I find Shadow tag gothorita w/ eviolite to be a pain. Its hard for me to tell all of it, but my video tells it all. My team consists of every 100 based stat pokemon. and I nearly lost to it. Too bulky to kill! goshdarntoheck! With a perish song, you are trapped left to die

    This is a video of mine using one in doubles.
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  6. #131
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    OK, let's break this down piece by piece. Let me first say that machamp is, at best, slightly underrated. Nothing else in the higher tiers gets a 100% accurate damaging move that guarantees confusion and a stone edge that has 100% accuracy. Otherwise...yeah conk's better. (Also, please don't take this as a personal attack against you, I'm just writing an argument and debating like I've been taught. My intent is to spark friendly debate.)

    Quote Originally Posted by UbersSuck20 View Post
    Machamp is not outclassed by Conkeldurr. The latter has 4 moveslot syndrome. Conkeldurr wants Bulk Up, Drain Punch, Mach Punch, Ice Punch and Payback. If no Bulk Up, then Drain Punch doesn't hit hard enough unless Conkeldurr uses a Flame Orb, and I can't remember the last time I saw a status orb Conkeldurr set. So we'll consider a Bulk Up set. Conkeldurr absolutely needs priority, like Machamp(and by the way Machamp can finish off ghosts that have about 10-15% health left, something Conkeldurr could only dream of.). And now we have 1 slot left, and this is where 4MSS comes into play. If using Payback, Conkeldurr does jack **** to Landorus-T, Gliscor, Dragonite and stuff like that. If Ice Punch, it has no answer to Jellicent and bulkier Psychic-types. And let's not forget Conkeldurr has counters that laugh in its face no matter what set it runs, such as SubCM Jirachi, Slowbro, Reuniclus, SubDisable Gengar unless the player predicts correctly, and Skarmory.
    ...Machamp is outclassed by conk in more ways than it isn't. Conk is bulkier, it hits harder, and is the better user of priority. Also, the biggest cure for the 4 slot syndrome is team support. Even if it lacks necessary move, another team member fills in that void. Missing ice punch? Offensive donphan iirc ohkoes anything 4x weak to ice with ice shard. Missing payback? Zam isn't a problem if you have a hard hitting scarfer. You also say conk doesn't hit hard enough with drain punch in the absence of bulk up unless it's a guts variant. I'm gonna agree, somewhat, though conk's main role that I've seen is a late game sweeper, so the only time you might need power is predicting something to switch in that could inhibit your chances for sweeping with something else. Still, conk hits like a truck even without a boost. Even weakening a poke to the point where it's ko'd by something else makes the used drain punch useful. Next, you mean champ can finish off gengar...utility jellicent takes 5.45 - 6.69% from the standard attacking lead set of machamp. As for your argument that 4mss impedes it...are you saying machamp stands a better chance against any of those because it doesn't suffer from 4mss? If so, that's only slightly true because machamp still can't do much against them. Also, your argument is further made invalid because machamp can also run a bulk up set. You're comparing the bulk up set to machamp's lead set. Side by side, guts or sheer force is giving Conk more power, it's able to replenish health with drain punch, and it's getting way better coverage with mach punch than champ is with bullet punch. The only thing really that champ has, as previously mentioned, is 100% accurate dynamicpunch and stone edge. Otherwise, conk > champ any day.

    Quote Originally Posted by UbersSuck20 View Post
    Machamp, however, doesn't need a status orb, and DynamicPunch means Machamp has no true counters(Machamp can beat even Reuniclus and Slowbro if the player is lucky.) Machamp can afford to use both Ice Punch and Payback, unlike Conkeldurr.
    So alakazam isn't a counter? Slowbro is more of a check and reuniclus is a definite counter. Also, as previously mentioned...yes conk can on an all out attacking guts set.

    Quote Originally Posted by UbersSuck20 View Post
    Machamp and Conkeldurr serve two different purposes. Machamp is meant to be an attacking lead, Conkeldurr is not. Conkeldurr is a wallbreaker if using a status orb and a late-game sweeper if using Bulk Up. Machamp's role in OU is to cause as much damage as possible in the early-game before going down. Attacking Lead Machamp synergizes well with any late-game cleaner, especially mixed Salamence.

    And lolDualChopMachamp. Machamp has Ice Punch and many dragons are 4x weak to Ice.
    Yet you've argued that champ outclasses conk because of 4mss and pretty much solely that even though you've talked about a single conkeldurr set. In my opinion, a wall breaker is more useful than something that just damages everything due to the fact that most people on the ladder use some form of crappy balance or occasional semistall. No lie, champ is better as a "5th gen lead" than conk; otherwise conk is better in more aspects than champ outclasses it.

  7. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by jireh the provider View Post
    From my own experience in doubles, I find Shadow tag gothorita w/ eviolite to be a pain. Its hard for me to tell all of it, but my video tells it all. My team consists of every 100 based stat pokemon. and I nearly lost to it. Too bulky to kill! goshdarntoheck! With a perish song, you are trapped left to die

    This is a video of mine using one in doubles.
    No offense, but your team is crap. Using a bunch of high BST Pokemon doesn't mean that you're going to win, especially against someone who obviously had a strategy.

  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by dewhinifier View Post
    OK, let's break this down piece by piece. Let me first say that machamp is, at best, slightly underrated. Nothing else in the higher tiers gets a 100% accurate damaging move that guarantees confusion and a stone edge that has 100% accuracy. Otherwise...yeah conk's better. (Also, please don't take this as a personal attack against you, I'm just writing an argument and debating like I've been taught. My intent is to spark friendly debate.)




    Even if it lacks necessary move, another team member fills in that void. Missing ice punch? Offensive donphan iirc ohkoes anything 4x weak to ice with ice shard.
    When was the last time you saw an offensive Donphan?

    Missing payback? Zam isn't a problem if you have a hard hitting scarfer.
    I said bulkier Psychic-types. Does Zam have Reuniclus-like defenses? No. And Conkeldurr doesn't even need Payback if it wants to beat Alakazam and only Alakazam out of so many Psychics.
    Next, you mean champ can finish off gengar...utility jellicent takes 5.45 - 6.69% from the standard attacking lead set of machamp.
    This is what happens when I'm too lazy to do the calcs. And Conkeldurr can't really beat Gengar unless it predicts correctly.
    As for your argument that 4mss impedes it...are you saying machamp stands a better chance against any of those because it doesn't suffer from 4mss? If so, that's only slightly true because machamp still can't do much against them.
    Please explain how. Landorus-T can't wall Machamp because of Ice Punch, neither can Jellicent because of Payback and Lum Berry(248+ Atk Machamp Payback (100 BP) vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Jellicent: 224-264 (55.58 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). Conkeldurr gets walled by either Lando-T or Jellicent, depending of the move it has.
    Side by side, guts or sheer force is giving Conk more power, it's able to replenish health with drain punch, and it's getting way better coverage with mach punch than champ is with bullet punch.
    Sheer Force Conkeldurr = fail.




    So alakazam isn't a counter?
    Of course it isn't, go and read the definition of a counter. Psyshock doesn't OHKO neither Machamp nor Conkeldurr and both can destroy it with Payback or Ice Punch followed by priority.


    Yet you've argued that champ outclasses conk because of 4mss and pretty much solely that even though you've talked about a single conkeldurr set. In my opinion, a wall breaker is more useful than something that just damages everything due to the fact that most people on the ladder use some form of crappy balance or occasional semistall. No lie, champ is better as a "5th gen lead" than conk; otherwise conk is better in more aspects than champ outclasses it.
    I'm comparing both sets because they are the standard ones, and Bulk Up Machamp is completely outclassed by Bulk Up Conkeldurr, so that's why it's only mentioned in "Other Options" on Machamp's OU analysis. And one more thing, Machamp has better special bulk than Conkeldurr.
    I'm not trying to make Machamp god-like or say that Machamp is better than Conkeldurr, I'm just pointing out the advantages it has over the monster with a big nose.

  9. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agonist View Post
    No offense, but your team is crap. Using a bunch of high BST Pokemon doesn't mean that you're going to win, especially against someone who obviously had a strategy.
    I know I know. But my set on the video is experimental. In all honesty, that is not really the reason why I use the 100 base pokemon. If memory recalls, I wasn't playing seriously at that time. I'm playing it just for fun. I just find them very cute (aesthetics matter too for me). It's just that I find my Opponent's Gothorita with shadow tag as a very potent wall/tank. And what I experienced there is rather scary. I'll be honest though. I thought that I'mm going to lose against my opponent.

    I'm talking about the Gothorita if you need correction. I don't take it personally even if I should.

    All I ask is not to be an Elitist jerkass on my observations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UbersSuck20 View Post
    I'm comparing both sets because they are the standard ones, and Bulk Up Machamp is completely outclassed by Bulk Up Conkeldurr, so that's why it's only mentioned in "Other Options" on Machamp's OU analysis. And one more thing, Machamp has better special bulk than Conkeldurr.
    I'm not trying to make Machamp god-like or say that Machamp is better than Conkeldurr, I'm just pointing out the advantages it has over the monster with a big nose.
    The landorus t thing: yeah i read that myself, so touche. I meant when compared to conk.

    Sheer force: I'll give you that, I didn't put as much thought into that and for some reason I blanked about iron fist. Either way, iron fist does more damage.

    Also, I'm not gonna feed continue the flame war as much as I could do so. In my defense, I didn't know the difference between check and counter. So, yeah, zam's more of a check then a counter.

    As for offensive donphan: More often than not when donphan's used. I was talking about the offensive rapid spin set. Last month on smogon, the adamant set with 252 hp/252 attack/4 sp def was used 24.089%, so there's your answer.

  11. #136
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    I like Azumarill a bit. OU of course. I mean, it only runs like one set which is CB. It could run others of course, but it's that powerful late game potential that's got it going on for the aquabunny. ^^ Plus its gotta nice shiny form and respectable defenses.

    Don't see it TOO too much tho nowadays.




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    i like to test rain attackers and water types(i even tried wailord once) and i find three that work pretty well in OU. feraligatr, crawdaunt, and ludicolo(rain dish) feraligatr's sd aqua jet set hits hard, although hard countered by reuniclus or dragons(ice punch or crunch. take your pick) crawdaunt is pretty hard to set up, but after one dd, he terrorizes everything, but that garbage def prevents a sweep(starmie and d nite clean up his mess) so hes a decent wallbreaker(unless mach punch conk, then i swtich to d nite) and offensive rain dish ludicolo is fun, but i can see why people wouldnt use it(low speed and average sp att, and that stallicolo set is way better even though it never works for me) but when people are expecting leech seed WHAM! so satisfying. but these three have their flaws, and i can see why they're not used in the wake of superior OU eqivalents(well, save crawdaunt, cause 160 bp waterfall hurts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalSonic View Post
    I like Azumarill a bit. OU of course. I mean, it only runs like one set which is CB. It could run others of course, but it's that powerful late game potential that's got it going on for the aquabunny. ^^ Plus its gotta nice shiny form and respectable defenses.

    Don't see it TOO too much tho nowadays.
    Azumarill was good back when Excadrill was OU. Nowadays it can be useful on a rain team but it suffers from that base 50 speed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UbersSuck20 View Post
    Azumarill was good back when Excadrill was OU. Nowadays it can be useful on a rain team but it suffers from that base 50 speed.
    Naah, I think Azumarill's pretty good nowadays to. Quite a few "big" threats such as Terrakion and Landorus are pretty susceptible to it.
    50 Spe isn't all too bad since Aqua Jet makes up for it somewhat and its defenses help it get off anything else if it comes down to it. Usually you're using Azumarill for its selling point; powerful Aqua Jet.



    plus its so nice and cute -w-




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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalSonic View Post
    Naah, I think Azumarill's pretty good nowadays to. Quite a few "big" threats such as Terrakion and Landorus are pretty susceptible to it.
    50 Spe isn't all too bad since Aqua Jet makes up for it somewhat and its defenses help it get off anything else if it comes down to it. Usually you're using Azumarill for its selling point; powerful Aqua Jet.
    Yeah but that's a pretty one-dimensional selling point. Huge Power Aqua Jets may hurt (even more so in the rain), but if the opponent resists, or absorbs water, then Azumarril's got problems. It may have some decent coverage moves but that 50 speed really holds it back when it's not using Aqua Jet.
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    | 149 | Druddigon | 0.31466% | 4093 | 0.298% | 3521 | 0.319% |
    | 152 | Glaceon | 0.30743% | 9675 | 0.705% | 7112 | 0.643% |

    Excuse me while I go vomit that an absolutely pathetic Pokemon on the competitive scene gets double and a half the raw usage of a decent Pokemon that is severely underrated. Thank God for the weighted stats. No offense to you, Glaceon lovers.

    Druddigon is actually good as a specially defensive Pokemon. He may be one of the ugliest Pokemon ever made and yes he may be somewhat outclassed, but he's the only Pokemon in the game that can set up both SR and paralyze his opponents without giving a **** if Espeon or Xatu are on the field, which gives him a small niche. (Mold Breaker > Rough Skin, guys.)

    I like using Pokemon that get a surprisingly low usage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerDraco View Post
    Yeah but that's a pretty one-dimensional selling point. Huge Power Aqua Jets may hurt (even more so in the rain), but if the opponent resists, or absorbs water, then Azumarril's got problems. It may have some decent coverage moves but that 50 speed really holds it back when it's not using Aqua Jet.
    Well if you're not usin Azumarill in rain then you're probably not usin it right. xD
    Anyways, the only time you're using anything but Aqua Jet is when you're predicting a switch due to an extremely predictable Aqua Jet (which is compounded by the fact that virtually any and all Azu sets in OU are CB) or against a slower Poke.
    And usually a good chunk of those things resistant/immune thingys can be dispatched easily by other rain threats with Electric type/Grass type attacks.


    Suppose I should've worded that last part a bit better;
    "Selling point; Potent revenge killing / late game prowess."




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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalSonic View Post
    Well if you're not usin Azumarill in rain then you're probably not usin it right. xD
    Anyways, the only time you're using anything but Aqua Jet is when you're predicting a switch due to an extremely predictable Aqua Jet (which is compounded by the fact that virtually any and all Azu sets in OU are CB) or against a slower Poke.
    And usually a good chunk of those things resistant/immune thingys can be dispatched easily by other rain threats with Electric type/Grass type attacks.


    Suppose I should've worded that last part a bit better;
    "Selling point; Potent revenge killing / late game prowess."
    In my opinion, azu's in the same boat with feraligatr, another slightly underrated poke. Both have got the power but have to rely on priority and rain to really do some damage. Gatr, though, can at least boost up with sd or dd to help it out. Still, both still have problems with ferrothorn and wall breaking isn't really their prowess. And if you're like me and hoping sheer force is gonna maybe boost its usage in OU...nope, only looking like it'll be BL2 or a low UU at best.

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    Sheer Force Feraligatr will probably become UU. There are many top-tier threats in UU that SF Feraligatr can take down, such as Chandelure, Snorlax, Darmanitan, Rhyperior, Victini, Gligar and Nidoking. It would become an anti-metagame Pokemon, just like Mamoswine is one of the most anti-metagame Pokemon in OU.
    I don't see Feraligatr becoming OU though because of Gyara and its higher speed and bulk.

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    Recently, I've been experimenting myself in the NU tier again.

    Of all the pokemon that I find Underrated, it belongs to Beheeyem. I tried it myself.

    If you give it enough tries with a trick room set, get ready for trouble. Though I don't know how it fares against the sort of overrated Musharna (musy mushy mush is more of a support type for me. not that worthy for offense) as a trick room user. The only pokes that I know that can disable Beheeyem would be a taunt user, even slower pokes like "Eviolite Tangela / Klang" and, Golem/Skuntank with Sucker Punch, Theoretically, Haunter might have issues with Beheeyem... its all that I remember.

    I mean Gardevoir could be one as well. but Beheeyem has the element and power that only musharna or any dark type user could use. Pus, under the influence of Trick Room, Guts Ursaring, Throh, Musharna, Tangela, and other slow pokemon with high defenses and power will enjoy supporting Beheeyem. This video, one of my battles, could give you an Idea on abusing the trick room summoned by Beheeyem for itself and its teammates

    My set would be this:

    Ability: Analytic / Synchronize
    Item: Life orb
    252 Sp. Atk and HP, 4 on either def/sp.def
    Nature would be "+" on Sp. Attack ; "-" on Speed
    -Trick Room
    -Psychic
    -Hidden Power Fighting (recommended) / Ice (if you hate Altaria and Tropius)
    -Dark Pulse
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    ... Why are you using Analytic on a Trick Room Beheeyem?

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    I personally think that Duo Screen Latias is pretty underrated. Not a lot of Pokemon try to taunt it, and it's natural bulk, combined with Healing Wish makes it a good Duo-Screener. It sets up screens, Draco Meteor something then proceed to a) die via Healing Wish or b) switch out. PRetty decent duoscreener.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agonist View Post
    ... Why are you using Analytic on a Trick Room Beheeyem?
    Analytic gives you a power boost in case you decide not to use Trick Room (you're not going to find room to use Trick Room every time you come in). It gives Beheeyem more utility as a sweeper that become a wall breaker if the opponent's team isn't clear enough to sweep. Besides, it's not like you're missing much by dropping Synchronize.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanicLanturn View Post
    I personally think that Duo Screen Latias is pretty underrated. Not a lot of Pokemon try to taunt it, and it's natural bulk, combined with Healing Wish makes it a good Duo-Screener. It sets up screens, Draco Meteor something then proceed to a) die via Healing Wish or b) switch out. PRetty decent duoscreener.
    Latios does that better. Memento > Healing Wish imo.

    Bisharp is very underrated in ubers. It works kinda like Extreme Killer Arceus, but it has some advantages over the so-called god of pokemon:
    1) Bisharp can get past Lugia very easily, while Arceus gets blown away.
    2) Bisharp doesn't care about Toxic Spikes.
    3) Arceus normally runs Lum Berry or Silk Scarf, while Bisharp can afford to use a Life Orb, making its Sucker Punch stronger than Arceus's ExtremeSpeed.
    4) Defensive Ghost Arceus and Giratina-O, who are great counters to Arceus, are destroyed by a Night Slash from Bisharp. The two spinblockers can come in for free while Arceus uses ExtremeSpeed and then phaze it.

    Of course, Sucker Punch has its problems. But I think Bisharp needs a lot more usage than it gets now(in April it only got 18 uses!!!!!)
    Imo Bisharp works well alongside EK Arceus, serving as a backup sweeper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UbersSuck20 View Post
    Latios does that better. Memento > Healing Wish imo.

    Bisharp is very underrated in ubers. It works kinda like Extreme Killer Arceus, but it has some advantages over the so-called god of pokemon:
    1) Bisharp can get past Lugia very easily, while Arceus gets blown away.
    2) Bisharp doesn't care about Toxic Spikes.
    3) Arceus normally runs Lum Berry or Silk Scarf, while Bisharp can afford to use a Life Orb, making its Sucker Punch stronger than Arceus's ExtremeSpeed.
    4) Defensive Ghost Arceus and Giratina-O, who are great counters to Arceus, are destroyed by a Night Slash from Bisharp. The two spinblockers can come in for free while Arceus uses ExtremeSpeed and then phaze it.

    Of course, Sucker Punch has its problems. But I think Bisharp needs a lot more usage than it gets now(in April it only got 18 uses!!!!!)
    Imo Bisharp works well alongside EK Arceus, serving as a backup sweeper.
    Latias, IMO, goes pretty well with Kyurem-B. I mean DuoScreen Latias and a non-Sub Kyurem-B. Kyurem-B can be at the edge of its health, tipping towards fainting thanks to it's awesome ice typing of crappy defenses. Then, switch into Latias, set up screens. Then low on hp? No fret! Healing Wish! Revives Kyurem-B into a healthy monkey and allow it to sweep with the protection of screens.

    Credits to Sworn Metalhead

    ASB Squad

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