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Thread: Assassin's Alliance

  1. #2701
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    Zangoose is really only truly viable as a frail, normal-type Sweeper because of his Toxic Boost ability, which gives him a CB-type boost without locking him into any single move.

    Either way, whatever sort of set we're looking at, Zangoose needs to be powerful and versatile, because if he can't kill the first hit, he's generally going down for the count.
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  2. #2702
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Fury View Post
    Zangoose is really only truly viable as a frail, normal-type Sweeper because of his Toxic Boost ability, which gives him a CB-type boost without locking him into any single move.

    Either way, whatever sort of set we're looking at, Zangoose needs to be powerful and versatile, because if he can't kill the first hit, he's generally going down for the count.
    Which also generally means he is best as a mid-late game sweeper. I'm thinking a volt turn core could help him out a lot, and as has been said, Magnezone helps Zangoose anyways. Anybody interested in a specs set?


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  3. #2703
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Fury View Post
    Zangoose is really only truly viable as a frail, normal-type Sweeper because of his Toxic Boost ability, which gives him a CB-type boost without locking him into any single move.

    Either way, whatever sort of set we're looking at, Zangoose needs to be powerful and versatile, because if he can't kill the first hit, he's generally going down for the count.
    Perhaps a baton pass team could make it work? If you could somehow pass a +2 attack, +2 speed and get like a reflect up or something, then zangoose would be primed and ready to sweep.

    Ninjask: +2 atk, +2 spd -> Espeon/Umbreon: Reflect + Wish + Taunt (for umbreon) -> Zangoose: annihilation

    It might work? Possibly...

    ALSO, can i be on the war team cosmic???

  4. #2704
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    What about fighting-types and Mach Punch? Both will go down to a fast fighting-type sweeper.

    Either way, there needs to be something in place that will sponge priority hits... like Jellicent.

    And Rising Star, you're going to need to be tested. If you can get me the seal of approval from any one/two of our war team members, you're good to go!
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  5. #2705
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    True but don't forget, we are only talking about our second mon, the team has a long way to go


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  6. #2706
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    Sounds good, Cosmic. SO, who wants to be my testers??? Any takers?

    Also, i agree with whoever said magnezone, zangoose struggles with bulky steels. But I did some calcs just for the heck of it and zangoose ohko's pretty much every defensive wall barring most steels at +2 atk and with toxic orb boost. Here are some examples:

    252 +2 Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose (+Atk) Facade vs 252 HP/252 Def Donphan (+Def) : 114.06% - 134.38%
    Guaranteed OHKO

    252 +2 Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose (+Atk) Facade vs 252 HP/252 Def Gliscor (+Def) : 119.77% - 141.53%
    Guaranteed OHKO

    252 +2 Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose (+Atk) Facade vs 252 HP/252 Def Hippowdon (+Def) : 105.24% - 124.29%
    Guaranteed OHKO

    252 +2 Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose (+Atk) Night Slash vs 252 HP/252 Def Jellicent (+Def) : 102.97% - 121.29%
    Guaranteed OHKO

    252 +2 Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose (+Atk) Facade vs 252 HP/252 Def Slowbro (+Def) : 118.02% - 138.83%
    Guaranteed OHKO

    Of course the opponent can stall toxic, but really after ghosts are gone, all you gotta do is spam facade and pretty much everything that doesnt resist is ohkoed. Steels are 2hkoed. Priority sucks but this is why we have quick attack + reflect + wish support. Baton pass with zangoose might actually be feasible... hehehe

  7. #2707
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    That's actually very impressive, especially considering Donphans sturdy O.o In all seriousness that is actually quite impressive


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  8. #2708
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    I'd recommend a Sub then if Zangoose lacks priority.

    So, is it to be Night Slash + Façade + Sub + SD?

    Or do we ditch sub and give him Close Combat instead, and give him Baton Pass substitute support???
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  9. #2709
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonicwari View Post
    That's actually very impressive, especially considering Donphans sturdy O.o In all seriousness that is actually quite impressive
    lolol yeah good point, i left out the part where we get SR up

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Fury View Post
    I'd recommend a Sub then if Zangoose lacks priority.

    So, is it to be Night Slash + Façade + Sub + SD?

    Or do we ditch sub and give him Close Combat instead, and give him Baton Pass substitute support???
    I was thinking:

    Night Slash / Close Combat / Facade / Quick Attack

    Baton pass support, definitely. But yeah sub can definitely replace quick attack, its probably better actually. I only wanted quick attack to ohko breloom.

  10. #2710
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    We can get something like Mamoswine to knock Breloom down by a peg or two. Either that, or anything with a flying type, or even Volcarona, which is resistant to all but ESpeed and Quick Attack, while also sporting Flame Body.
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  11. #2711
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Fury View Post
    We can get something like Mamoswine to knock Breloom down by a peg or two. Either that, or anything with a flying type, or even Volcarona, which is resistant to all but ESpeed and Quick Attack, while also sporting Flame Body.
    Yeah, I was thinking Mamo too, SR, EQ, ice stab is exactly what we were missing. This idea is looking really good on paper; I'm curious to see how well it can be executed in a real match though. Looking forward to testing the finished product.

  12. #2712

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Fury View Post
    I'd recommend a Sub then if Zangoose lacks priority.

    So, is it to be Night Slash + Façade + Sub + SD?

    Or do we ditch sub and give him Close Combat instead, and give him Baton Pass substitute support???
    substitute seems stupid to me. no offense. with toxic damage there is little to no way a frail poke such as zangoose can get a sub set up and live any time with toxic damage. as for the idea of it being a baton passed to is interesting as most ends to a baton pass team tend to try to live long not kill itself with toxic. I am all for baton pass but i think tailwind is better as it is easier to set up and you lose less if you switch.


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  13. #2713
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    I'm honestly not seeing very many situations where Zangoose can get a SD in due to his frailty. However, a Smash Pass supporter will do him wonders, and actually give him a reason to use Quick Attack, as it will hit a lot harder against opposing priority users.
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  14. #2714
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnnoyingRedHead View Post
    substitute seems stupid to me. no offense. with toxic damage there is little to no way a frail poke such as zangoose can get a sub set up and live any time with toxic damage. as for the idea of it being a baton passed to is interesting as most ends to a baton pass team tend to try to live long not kill itself with toxic. I am all for baton pass but i think tailwind is better as it is easier to set up and you lose less if you switch.
    I completely agree with this right here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Fury View Post
    I'm honestly not seeing very many situations where Zangoose can get a SD in due to his frailty. However, a Smash Pass supporter will do him wonders, and actually give him a reason to use Quick Attack, as it will hit a lot harder against opposing priority users.
    I thought we were talking either smash pass or ninjas I support the whole time... Not Sd


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  15. #2715
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    I say we DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN.

    Sub Hydreigon. You can't switch into it safely. You can't. Unless you're an ugly blob, I mean, you just can't. Dragon/Fire/Ground or Dragon/Dark/Fighting it's so threatening. People forget all about that 3 headed monstrosity, maaan...:/

    jk tho just keep throwin out ideas dudes no rush whatsoever




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  16. #2716
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalSonic View Post
    I say we DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN.

    Sub Hydreigon. You can't switch into it safely. You can't. Unless you're an ugly blob, I mean, you just can't. Dragon/Fire/Ground or Dragon/Dark/Fighting it's so threatening. People forget all about that 3 headed monstrosity, maaan...:/

    jk tho just keep throwin out ideas dudes no rush whatsoever
    Kyurem-b does the sub set better

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  17. #2717
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    Quote Originally Posted by The witch king of angmar View Post
    Kyurem-b does the sub set better
    The only debatable part about this is move pool. Kyurem B has a lot less options (though Hydreigon will probably run a select few moves every time, he still has options)


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  18. #2718

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    just thought i would play some random battles and it went from facepalm how could i be so dumb to me sweeping
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/randombattle-32859917


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  19. #2719
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    Well, looking at the calcs and all, it seems like a SmashPassed Zangoose is going to murder everything without priority (and if we give it Quick Attack it will demolish Breloom too, not sure about +2 Quick Attack on Mamoswine. It'd hurt for sure though). My vote goes towards a SmashPasser for it. Which one, I dunno XD
    "Whether Castform the Weather Pokemon can weather the weather is dependent on whether the weather that it's weathering is the proper weather for it to weather. Whether the opponent can weather the weather is also subject to whether the weather that it's weathering is the right weather to weather. Whether Castform can weather the opponent is once again dictated by the weather and whether that weather is the favorable weather for weathering. But most importantly, you should know whether there will be weather to weather rather than what weather they will be weathering and whether they can weather that weather."

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  20. #2720
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    can we rethink thing's? Come on zangoose in ou is just crazy because lucario exists.

    So can we please pick more appropriate tier or pokemon?

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  21. #2721
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    Quote Originally Posted by The witch king of angmar View Post
    can we rethink thing's? Come on zangoose in ou is just crazy because lucario exists.

    So can we please pick more appropriate tier or pokemon?

    No. Have you ever actually tried Zangoose in OU? It's just one of those Pokemon that can do good in any tier. And besides, Luke is an overrated piece of **** who can't even beat frail things like Azelf and Gengar, so no.

    Quote Originally Posted by loco1234 View Post
    Well, looking at the calcs and all, it seems like a SmashPassed Zangoose is going to murder everything without priority (and if we give it Quick Attack it will demolish Breloom too, not sure about +2 Quick Attack on Mamoswine. It'd hurt for sure though). My vote goes towards a SmashPasser for it. Which one, I dunno XD
    There can only be one.

    I actually SmashPassed to him a lot with my MonoNormal team, but the problem is it's not wise to SmashPass to a Guts (or Toxic Boost) sweeper. If we're gonna SmashPass we need a Garchomp or a Kyurem-B or something.


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  22. #2722
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    Quote Originally Posted by The witch king of angmar View Post
    can we rethink thing's? Come on zangoose in ou is just crazy because lucario exists.

    So can we please pick more appropriate tier or pokemon?
    Bro, this team isn't exactly being made to be the best team in the world, it's being made to have fun


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  23. #2723
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Retribution View Post
    No. Have you ever actually tried Zangoose in OU? It's just one of those Pokemon that can do good in any tier. And besides, Luke is an overrated piece of **** who can't even beat frail things like Azelf and Gengar, so no.



    There can only be one.

    I actually SmashPassed to him a lot with my MonoNormal team, but the problem is it's not wise to SmashPass to a Guts (or Toxic Boost) sweeper. If we're gonna SmashPass we need a Garchomp or a Kyurem-B or something.
    sorry but you are so epicly wrong on zangoose, it has terrible defences, terrible typing and it's rather slow for something thats intended to be a glass cannon.

    Luke is getting old, his offences are mediocre compared to 4th gen, his defences are poor and he has one of the worst cases 4 slot syndrome, but unlike zangoose his typing is extremely solid, he can go special or physical, better priority in ES and the only reason TO is not really a negative on zangoose, because a freaking magikarp can slash through them paper thin defences. Luke ain't great but he is far better than zangoose in the current ou metagame, purely on the merits of his typing alone, being a normal type sucks so badly, in a metagame full to the brim of fighting types, not to mention, normal is just an awful stab move, to which ghosts are immune, steel and rocks ressists and there is 0 that's right 0 thing's normal type hits for super effective.

    Zangoose is too slow too frail and has the curse of normal typing to be any good in ou period. He is not and I say not viable enough in ou to make it worth while using him at all.

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  24. #2724
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    Quote Originally Posted by The witch king of angmar View Post
    sorry but you are so epicly wrong on zangoose, it has terrible defences, terrible typing and it's rather slow for something thats intended to be a glass cannon.

    Luke is getting old, his offences are mediocre compared to 4th gen, his defences are poor and he has one of the worst cases 4 slot syndrome, but unlike zangoose his typing is extremely solid, he can go special or physical, better priority in ES and the only reason TO is not really a negative on zangoose, because a freaking magikarp can slash through them paper thin defences. Luke ain't great but he is far better than zangoose in the current ou metagame, purely on the merits of his typing alone, being a normal type sucks so badly, in a metagame full to the brim of fighting types, not to mention, normal is just an awful stab move, to which ghosts are immune, steel and rocks ressists and there is 0 that's right 0 thing's normal type hits for super effective.

    Zangoose is too slow too frail and has the curse of normal typing to be any good in ou period. He is not and I say not viable enough in ou to make it worth while using him at all.

    Last time I checked, Luke can't OHKO 252/252 Groudon at +2. Or even 2HKO. Besides, this is a CCAT, the entire point is to have fun doing it, not make some superstandard OU team full of **** like Luke.


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  25. #2725
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Retribution View Post
    Last time I checked, Luke can't OHKO 252/252 Groudon at +2. Or even 2HKO. Besides, this is a CCAT, the entire point is to have fun doing it, not make some superstandard OU team full of **** like Luke.
    My methodology of having fun is not using awful competitive pokemon that people like, but rather to make a team that is as effective as possible.

    Also what use is power if you cannot use it, the most common pokemon in ou laughs at zangoose and for good reason, CB BP is something that will kill or force you out.

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