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Thread: Movies = Canon? Dump it all here and leave the Genesect movie thread alone plz

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    Default Movies = Canon? Dump it all here and leave the Genesect movie thread alone plz

    Quote Originally Posted by 1rkhachatryan View Post
    That doesn't change the fact that they were still in Unova and that those movies weren't actually cannon.

    No one wants him to I want him to leave lol
    All movies are canon unless proven otherwise.

    Well he's not doing either.

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    I've always said that all movies are canon, but Movie 14. It messes up the canonology of Best Wishes so much that I just can't take it seriously as canon.

    Not only does it split in two, meaning only one of them is the true canon, but the main fault is the Zekrom/Reshiram story and how it's portrayed in the anime. Yes there can be more than one Zekrom and Reshiram, but everything about the story revolving them in Movie 14 doesn't fit especially with the anime's portrayal of them.

    The creation trio, that worked fine in both the Movies and Anime. I challenge anybody to make Movie 14 sound logical with fitting into the anime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    All movies are canon unless proven otherwise.

    Well he's not doing either.
    Most movies aren't cannon unless proven otherwise.

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    I only consider a movie canon if it has direct effects on the anime series itself. If it doesn't ... nope.


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    Why does it matter if movies are canon or not?

    I thought this argument was about the timeline, the moment you question whether or not a movie is canon, you automatically fail in your argument about the timeline of any movie.

    You can't have it both ways: You can't argue a movie is not canon or canon and then at the same time use any movie as an example of your "timeline" argument.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    I've always said that all movies are canon, but Movie 14. It messes up the canonology of Best Wishes so much that I just can't take it seriously as canon.

    Not only does it split in two, meaning only one of them is the true canon, but the main fault is the Zekrom/Reshiram story and how it's portrayed in the anime. Yes there can be more than one Zekrom and Reshiram, but everything about the story revolving them in Movie 14 doesn't fit especially with the anime's portrayal of them.

    The creation trio, that worked fine in both the Movies and Anime. I challenge anybody to make Movie 14 sound logical with fitting into the anime.
    Wouldn't that also make movie 15 not canon, with kyurem being able to just become black white kyurem out of nowhere without gene splicing or anything like that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by yuoke View Post
    Wouldn't that also make movie 15 not canon, with kyurem being able to just become black white kyurem out of nowhere without gene splicing or anything like that?
    No... that's simply an anime take on a Pokemon's Ability.

    If you went by that logic, Movie 1 shouldn't be canon since in the games Mewtwo never had anything to do with Team Rocket at all (and we all know Movie 1 had scenes in the anime regardless). Also, Movie 2 shouldn't be canon since there is no statement Lugia controls the bird trio.

    There are tonnes more reasons why you're logic isn't correct, but you get the point.

    Besides, as of right now Kyurem hasn't appeared in the anime so we don't know it's anime story yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    All movies are canon unless proven otherwise.

    Well he's not doing either.
    Um flip that and you have the right answer.

    Prove it please.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1rkhachatryan View Post
    Um flip that and you have the right answer.

    Prove it please.
    The first three movies were canon, that much we knew... things got a bit trickery down the line though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    The first three movies were canon, that much we knew... things got a bit trickery down the line though.
    Exactly, not all movies are canon till proven otherwise lol.
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    It took a long time researching all of this, but here you go everyone. Movies that have confirmation of being canon, and movies that people believe have valid reasons to be canon.

    The movies proved canon:

    -Movie 1 = Anime scenes.
    -Movie 2 = Lugia of the Orange Islands is referenced in the Whirl Islands.
    -Movie 7 = The events are referenced by Professor Lunds Research in the Deoxys AG two-parter.
    -Movie 16 = Anime scenes.

    Movies believed to be canon:


    -Movie 3 = The gang recognize Entei as a legendary Pokemon, they only saw it in Movie 3 before.
    -Movie 4 = Ash and Brock recognize Celebi in the AG BF episode. ALSO, Ash tells Professor Oak he's seen Suicune before in the Movie, this was before he knew about Suicune in the anime (since he didn't know what it was).
    -Movie 5 = Ash recognises Latios against Tobias only ever seeing one in Movie 5 beforehand.
    -Movie 8 = Ash recognizes Lucario upon first meeting Maylene, he knows it has the move Aura Sphere also. The only time he met one before was in Movie 8.
    -Movie 9 = Max recognizes Kyogre in the Movie, only ever seeing one in the Anime beforehand.
    -Movie 10 = People believe that the Lunar Wing Dawn used in the Darkrai/Cresselia episode is the one she bought in Movie 10.
    -Movie 11 = Movie 10.
    -Movie 12 = Movie 10.
    -Movie 13 = Ash recognizes Celebi from Movie 4 in the AG episode, and also recognizes Celebi in this Movie.
    Last edited by Haunter ゴースト; 19th March 2013 at 12:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    It took a long time researching all of this, but here you go everyone. Movies that have confirmation of being canon, and movies that people believe have valid reasons to be canon.

    The movies proved canon:

    -Movie 1 = Anime scenes.
    -Movie 2 = Lugia of the Orange Islands is referenced in the Whirl Islands.
    -Movie 7 = The events are referenced by Professor Lunds Research in the Deoxys AG two-parter.
    -Movie 16 = Anime scenes.

    Movies believed to be canon:


    -Movie 4 = Ash and Brock recognize Celebi in the AG BF episode. ALSO, Ash tells Professor Oak he's seen Suicune before in the Movie, this was before he knew about Suicune in the anime (since he didn't know what it was).
    -Movie 5 = Ash recognises Latios against Tobias only ever seeing one in Movie 5 beforehand.
    -Movie 8 = Ash recognizes Lucario upon first meeting Maylene, he knows it has the move Aura Sphere also. The only time he met one before was in Movie 8.
    -Movie 9 = Max recognizes Kyogre in the Movie, only ever seeing one in the Anime beforehand.
    -Movie 10 = People believe that the Lunar Wing Dawn used in the Darkrai/Cresselia episode is the one she bought in Movie 10.
    -Movie 11 = Movie 10.
    -Movie 12 = Movie 10.
    -Movie 13 = Ash recognizes Celebi from Movie 4 in the AG episode, and also recognizes Celebi in this Movie.
    I would say movie 3 is canon, no??
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    -Movie 9 = Max recognizes Kyogre in the Movie, only ever seeing one in the Anime beforehand.
    Max is the Pokénerd, I'm not too surprised here. He also is a native of Hoenn (unless they moved there?), and pretty much a lot of Hoenn natives know the myth of Groudon and Kyogre, even if they didn't recognize the names. I don't know if he recognized Kyogre in the anime immediately, but if he did, I'm sure he would've known about Kyogre in the movie no matter what. It'd be more credible if Ash made acknowledgment to recognizing it.

    Still, those are pretty good observations. I haven't always thought about how the movies and anime could be connected, but I can see those being the case.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    -Movie 8 = Ash recognizes Lucario upon first meeting Maylene, he knows it has the move Aura Sphere also. The only time he met one before was in Movie 8.
    This is canon, Ash used his Aura abilities repeatedly in the main anime. Specifically, the Spiritomb episode and the J/Riolu special.

    -Movie 10 = People believe that the Lunar Wing Dawn used in the Darkrai/Cresselia episode is the one she bought in Movie 10.
    -Movie 11 = Movie 10.
    -Movie 12 = Movie 10.
    I can't believe I never thought of this before, but we don't even need the Lunar Wing to prove this.



    The Space-Time Tower from Movie 10 appears in DP036.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1rkhachatryan View Post
    I would say movie 3 is canon, no??
    Nothing confirms it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kutie Pie View Post
    Max is the Pokénerd, I'm not too surprised here. He also is a native of Hoenn (unless they moved there?), and pretty much a lot of Hoenn natives know the myth of Groudon and Kyogre, even if they didn't recognize the names. I don't know if he recognized Kyogre in the anime immediately, but if he did, I'm sure he would've known about Kyogre in the movie no matter what.
    Good point, however that is the reason i've placed it in the section people believe to be canon.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great Butler View Post
    This is canon, Ash used his Aura abilities repeatedly in the main anime. Specifically, the Spiritomb episode and the J/Riolu special.
    The aura doesn't confirm anything though. Ash is surprised he heard Riolu's voice, so are Dawn, Brock and the Ranger. The Ranger says it was Riolu's Aura, and with that they head to go and save Riolu. This reason is exactly why i've placed it in the 'movies that are believed to be canon area' since it isn't confirmed, yet it is believable.

    I can't believe I never thought of this before, but we don't even need the Lunar Wing to prove this.



    The Space-Time Tower from Movie 10 appears in DP036.
    Just because a location is seen in the anime doesn't prove that the events of a movie took place there.

    That's like saying Mewthree exists because it's mentioned after Mewtwo's creation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    Nothing confirms it.
    Brock's Zubat first used Wing Attack and Misty's Staryu first used Rapid Spin in that movie, not sure if I remember correctly, but I thought they knew who Entei was in EP259 (where Pineco evolved)

    The aura doesn't confirm anything though. Ash is surprised he heard Riolu's voice, so are Dawn, Brock and the Ranger. The Ranger says it was Riolu's Aura, and with that they head to go and save Riolu. This reason is exactly why i've placed it in the 'movies that are believed to be canon area' since it isn't confirmed, yet it is believable.
    So we would know Ash had Aura abilities without movie 8?

    Also about movie 10, pretty sure it would be pointless to show Dawn purchasing a Lunar Wing only for a different Wing to be used in the anime
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    Nothing confirms it.



    Good point, however that is the reason i've placed it in the section people believe to be canon.



    The aura doesn't confirm anything though. Ash is surprised he heard Riolu's voice, so are Dawn, Brock and the Ranger. The Ranger says it was Riolu's Aura, and with that they head to go and save Riolu. This reason is exactly why i've placed it in the 'movies that are believed to be canon area' since it isn't confirmed, yet it is believable.



    Just because a location is seen in the anime doesn't prove that the events of a movie took place there.

    That's like saying Mewthree exists because it's mentioned after Mewtwo's creation.
    Doesn't showing the Charizific valley and Charizard confirm it?? Those were anime only places that didn't debut in a movie...
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1rkhachatryan View Post
    Doesn't showing the Charizific valley and Charizard confirm it?? Those were anime only places that didn't debut in a movie...
    Apologies, the gang do recognise Entei actually. However the Charizard reason doesn't confirm it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    Brock's Zubat first used Wing Attack and Misty's Staryu first used Rapid Spin in that movie, not sure if I remember correctly, but I thought they knew who Entei was in EP259 (where Pineco evolved)
    Just rewatched the episode and yes they do recognise Entei, however it still only belongs in the 'movies people believe are canon' since recognizing a name is never definite confirmation.

    So we would know Ash had Aura abilities without movie 8?
    Yes, since the episodes made it semi-believable that he gained them at that moment. He shouted out to Riolu, and reacted surprised when he heard Riolus voice. The ranger explained it was Riolu's Aura talking and the gang headed off to save it.

    Also about movie 10, pretty sure it would be pointless to show Dawn purchasing a Lunar Wing only for a different Wing to be used in the anime
    Yeah, it's common sense that it's the same Lunar Wing, but nothing labels it as the same one so we can't automatically assume it is.
    Last edited by Haunter ゴースト; 19th March 2013 at 12:44 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1rkhachatryan View Post
    Doesn't showing the Charizific valley and Charizard confirm it?? Those were anime only places that didn't debut in a movie...
    Apologies, Ash and the group recognise Enteis name.

    However no the Charizard reason doesn't confirm it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    Just rewatched the episode and yes they do recognise Entei, however it still only belongs in the 'movies people believe are canon' since recognizing a name is never definite confirmation.



    Yes, since the episodes made it semi-believable that he gained them at that moment. He shouted out to Riolu, and reacted surprised when he heard Riolus voice. The ranger explained it was Riolu's Aura talking and the gang headed off to save it.



    Yeah, it's common sense that it's the same Lunar Wing, but nothing labels it as the same one so we can't automatically assume it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    Apologies, Ash and the group recognise Enteis name.

    However no the Charizard reason doesn't confirm it.
    But the movies never mention anime locations(outside of the actual region and pallet town I believe)

    That is an anime only location, meaning without the anime, Ash wouldn't even know about the valley. That seems enough to confirm it for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1rkhachatryan View Post
    But the movies never mention anime locations(outside of the actual region and pallet town I believe)

    That is an anime only location, meaning without the anime, Ash wouldn't even know about the valley. That seems enough to confirm it for me.
    That logic is b/s.

    Sorry but you're assuming that anime only locations are never, or never will be mentioned in the movies.

    Regardless, Orange Islands is mentioned in Movie 2 and Characific Valley is mentioned in Movie 3.

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    This thread is making me facepalm so hard I just put a hole in my head.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    Yes, since the episodes made it semi-believable that he gained them at that moment. He shouted out to Riolu, and reacted surprised when he heard Riolus voice. The ranger explained it was Riolu's Aura talking and the gang headed off to save it.
    He gained them in the Riolu episode even though he used them fifteen episodes earlier when he was the only one who could seal Spiritomb because he had said powers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great Butler View Post
    He gained them in the Riolu episode even though he used them fifteen episodes earlier when he was the only one who could seal Spiritomb because he had said powers?
    Haha, so? It doesn't matter which way around the episodes are, none of them directly confirm (or even hint for that matter) that Movie 8 is canon.

    Ash never uses Aura, he's simply mistaken as the 'aura guardian' by Spiritomb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    That logic is b/s.

    Sorry but you're assuming that anime only locations are never, or never will be mentioned in the movies.

    Regardless, Orange Islands is mentioned in Movie 2 and Characific Valley is mentioned in Movie 3.
    Ya which would make it canon. They never bring back older pokemon in the movies so the simple fact that Charizard was even there should make it canon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    Just rewatched the episode and yes they do recognise Entei, however it still only belongs in the 'movies people believe are canon' since recognizing a name is never definite confirmation.

    Yes, since the episodes made it semi-believable that he gained them at that moment. He shouted out to Riolu, and reacted surprised when he heard Riolus voice. The ranger explained it was Riolu's Aura talking and the gang headed off to save it.

    Yeah, it's common sense that it's the same Lunar Wing, but nothing labels it as the same one so we can't automatically assume it is.
    Cool, I'm actually glad I remembered something from that long ago, even if it doesn't absolutely confirm the movie ^_^

    Eh, that's acceptable. In the end I guess if all of the fandom feels it canon though, it could probably get a pass. Oh well, I don't really care about movie canon since it doesn't make the show itself any better or worst
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