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Thread: Pokémon - Mewtwo Form - UNCONFIRMED + Dream World Catalogue

  1. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Really? You honestly think 3 million people saying "a freaking Ice cream cone is a pokemon!" never reached any of the designers? This is not the days of R/B/Y with only 5 people designing the pokemon. B/W had around 17 designers, many of who I follow their blogs/drawr accounts as I'm a big fakemon creator, plenty of which I can assure you talk with fans all over the world.

    Hell, I've seen people mention the "ridiculousness"(note that I loved 5th gen, this isn't my opinion) on Sugimori's Twitter account. This isn't the 1990's anymore, the internet and twitter are rampant. And furthermore, a better rule of thumb if you ask me, is ask yourself what a designers JOB is? To make something appealing to their audience.

    (on a side note, Sugimori himself said in a online nintendo power interview with Iwata, that the designs for 5th gen were pretty edgy for his tastes. So to me, its only logical he'd want to hold back a bit)
    It's kinda a shame that people are blaming Sugimori for everything, when all he does is draw the final designs that others (and possibly himself too) came up with.

    Some British dude designed the ice cream cones: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/James_Turner
    (but Sugimori drew the final art for it, as with all Pokemon)
    HOW TO HEAR KYUREM'S CRY IN REAL LIFE:
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  2. #177

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    I actually like the new Mewtwo form and would use it .-.
    Fake or not..

  3. #178

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Really? You honestly think 3 million people saying "a freaking Ice cream cone is a pokemon!" never reached any of the designers?
    Never once. They don't solicit fan input, they don't receive it and nor should they on either count. And the notion that "3 million people saying "a freaking Ice cream cone is a pokemon!" is a reality or anything that matters is a flawed one, at best. One, because there was objectively nothing wrong with the Vanilluxe line and the same people crying about it were the same ones fawning over Exeggcute and Pineco and what have you, and two because of the second part of the last point - I guarantee you that no sort of majority of the target demographic actually felt the need to complain about an ice cream Pokémon. Your argument basically boils down to saying that a bunch of people whose opinions don't matter were doing complaining in a forum where not a one of their complaints will ever be heard. That doesn't really lend support to what you're trying to claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    B/W had around 17 designers, many of who I follow their blogs/drawr accounts as I'm a big fakemon creator, plenty of which I can assure you talk with fans all over the world.
    Oh, you follow them on their blogs/drawr accounts. Alright then.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Hell, I've seen people mention the "ridiculousness"(note that I loved 5th gen, this isn't my opinion) on Sugimori's Twitter account.
    I can go staple a theses on why everything is awful to somebody's door. It doesn't mean they're going to read it.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    And furthermore, a better rule of thumb if you ask me, is ask yourself what a designers JOB is? To make something appealing to their audience.
    Sure is. Within the confines of their job as given to them by their workplace superiors. The designers take their cues from their own artistic sensibilities and training and from those above them, not from PokemonFan2112 on Pokemonforum.net. That certainly doesn't have to be mutually exclusive from creating things with appeal to the fans, but the mistake is made in assuming that the fans have any say or input on the matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    (on a side note, Sugimori himself said in a online nintendo power interview with Iwata, that the designs for 5th gen were pretty edgy for his tastes. So to me, its only logical he'd want to hold back a bit)
    Point was made - Sugimori doesn't design all of the critters. "Edgy for his tastes" is all well and good but it doesn't actually mean anything was or will be changed as a result.



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  4. #179
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    Mew2s new form I think is fake because
    most new forms are more powerful and have something the other doesnt
    ITS HEAD IS HUGE (Probably because it was made by a japanese person because it is a japanese rumour)
    only difference is his tail is on hiss larger head and it has an arch on it
    BIG HEAD
    y would they change 1 of the classic legendaries it could send old fans in a frenzy
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  5. #180

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    None of those are actual reasons why the forme is or isn't fake.



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  6. #181
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    Still dislike it, still hope/believe that it's fake. Mewtwo needs no new form. He is absolute! Mwahahahaha
    Quote Originally Posted by Mew. View Post
    I guess you are a special one and do not fit under the "most people" category

  7. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elnava View Post
    Mewtwo needs no new form. He is absolute! Mwahahahaha
    I have said this before, but Mewtwo has terrible Def/Sp Def Stats. If this new form boosted those, HP, and speed, but reduced Attack/Sp. Attack, Yes, Mewtwo could use a new form. Mewtwo in the game is nothing like the Mewtwo in the anime.
    And you questioned my sanity. My Anime List

    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    if Arceus is the Alpha Pokemon

    wouldn't Mega Arceus be

    the O-Mega Pokemon

  8. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autis-misc View Post
    I have said this before, but Mewtwo has terrible Def/Sp Def Stats. If this new form boosted those, HP, and speed, but reduced Attack/Sp. Attack, Yes, Mewtwo could use a new form. Mewtwo in the game is nothing like the Mewtwo in the anime.
    That's why he's a sweeper. He's not meant to defend. His defenses aren't even that bad

    He doesn't need a speed boost. Have you seen his speed stat?
    Last edited by Elnava; 6th April 2013 at 10:08 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mew. View Post
    I guess you are a special one and do not fit under the "most people" category

  9. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elnava View Post
    That's why he's a sweeper. He's not meant to defend. His defenses aren't even that bad
    Still, not really my point. Even if his defense stats were decent, he could still be stopped by a well-trained dark-type with good speed. If this form (if it's real) had better defense stats, It could make Mewtwo a better tank, and see more usage in Uber Battles.
    And you questioned my sanity. My Anime List

    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    if Arceus is the Alpha Pokemon

    wouldn't Mega Arceus be

    the O-Mega Pokemon

  10. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autis-misc View Post
    Still, not really my point. Even if his defense stats were decent, he could still be stopped by a well-trained dark-type with good speed. If this form (if it's real) had better defense stats, It could make Mewtwo a better tank, and see more usage in Uber Battles.
    What? No. Nothing out speeds Mewtwo that isn't named Deoxys. His defenses are base 90 each, that's not bad. And last I checked the only dark type move with any kind of priority was sucker puch, that's not going to get close to an OHKO. He shouldn't be getting stopped by any dark type.

    Better tank? He's not supposed to tank in the first place
    Quote Originally Posted by Mew. View Post
    I guess you are a special one and do not fit under the "most people" category

  11. #186
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    What stands before us, is not a machine. The mouth...it attempts to speak. It attempts to lie. My legs weaken at the sight of this powerful program.

    Lol...Anyways,

    Does anybody think they might make two separate forms for x and y?
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    I'm in it.

  12. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elnava View Post
    What? No. Nothing out speeds Mewtwo that isn't named Deoxys. His defenses are base 90 each, that's not bad. And last I checked the only dark type move with any kind of priority was sucker puch, that's not going to get close to an OHKO
    Ninjask, Electrode, Jolteon, and Aerodactyl all have higher speeds than Mewtwo.

    Jolteon can learn bite.

    Aerodactyl can learn crunch. Aerodactyl also has a base att. stat of 105. EV Train a Aerodactyl in Att. and speed and all it takes is at least 2 turns. 1 to use crunch, have mewtwo flinch, and another to crunch again and kill it off.
    And you questioned my sanity. My Anime List

    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    if Arceus is the Alpha Pokemon

    wouldn't Mega Arceus be

    the O-Mega Pokemon

  13. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autis-misc View Post
    Jolteon can learn bite.
    Max attack Choice Band Jolteon (who would use this but w/e) does 42% - 50% to Mewtwo with 4 HP/0 Def investment, making it unlikely to even 2HKO.

    106/90/90 defenses are fairly bulky compared to most 'mons. Its defense stats are only arguably indecent when compared to other Ubers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Autis-misc View Post
    Aerodactyl can learn crunch. Aerodactyl also has a base att. stat of 105. EV Train a Aerodactyl in Att. and speed and all it takes is at least 2 turns. 1 to use crunch, have mewtwo flinch, and another to crunch again and kill it off.
    CB Aerodactyl does 76% - 90% to Mewtwo with Crunch (which has no inherent flinch rate to speak of).

    Try using this in the future.

  14. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autis-misc View Post
    Ninjask, Electrode, Jolteon, and Aerodactyl all have higher speeds than Mewtwo.

    Jolteon can learn bite.

    Aerodactyl can learn crunch. Aerodactyl also has a base att. stat of 105. EV Train a Aerodactyl in Att. and speed and all it takes is at least 2 turns. 1 to use crunch, have mewtwo flinch, and another to crunch again and kill it off.
    Ninjask is uber frail as well. Lol electrode. Aerodactyl and Jolteon have the same speed stat as Mewtwo

    Also, above post. He doesn't need a new form
    Quote Originally Posted by Mew. View Post
    I guess you are a special one and do not fit under the "most people" category

  15. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    Max attack Choice Band Jolteon (who would use this but w/e) does 42% - 50% to Mewtwo with 4 HP/0 Def investment, making it unlikely to even 2HKO.

    106/90/90 defenses are fairly bulky compared to most 'mons. Its defense stats are only arguably indecent when compared to other Ubers.



    CB Aerodactyl does 76% - 90% to Mewtwo with Crunch (which has no inherent flinch rate to speak of).

    Try using this in the future.
    I wasn't generally actually using Jolteon as an example, I was just using it to say that it's not only deoxys that has a higher speed than mewtwo. also, I added in the King's Rock held item which boost the flinching effect by 10%, making 1 out of 10 moves cause the flinching status. Also, 76% - 90% would be practically enough to OHKO a mewtwo with a Critical. On the site you showed me, it would do 101% - 120%, which does, in fact, result to an OHKO.

    Ninjask is uber frail as well. Lol electrode. Aerodactyl and Jolteon have the same speed stat as Mewtwo
    Not my point. If you actually read my entire post, you would see that an Aerodactyl trained right could easily take down Mewtwo in 1-2 turns.
    And you questioned my sanity. My Anime List

    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    if Arceus is the Alpha Pokemon

    wouldn't Mega Arceus be

    the O-Mega Pokemon

  16. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autis-misc View Post
    also, I added in the King's Rock held item which boost the flinching effect by 10%, making 1 out of 10 moves cause the flinching status. Also, 76% - 90% would be practically enough to OHKO a mewtwo with a Critical. On the site you showed me, it would do 101% - 120%, which does, in fact, result to an OHKO.
    So, you intend to have your Aerodactyl defeat Mewtwo by hoping for a speed tie win and then either a crit or a King's Rock flinch?

    This is your winning strategy? This is why Mewtwo is too frail and needs a new form to be tankier?

    Really?

  17. #192

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elnava View Post
    He doesn't need a new form
    The funny thing is how people think throwing around words like "need" actually give them meaning.

    I hereby decree that no Pokémon ever needs any sort of evolution or anything. Everything will be stagnant, solitary and set from now on.

    See? Means just as little when I say it.



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  18. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    So, you intend to have your Aerodactyl defeat Mewtwo by hoping for a speed tie win and then either a crit or a King's Rock flinch?

    This is your winning strategy? This is why Mewtwo is too frail and needs a new form to be tankier?

    Really?
    No, I was just proving a point that there are Pokemon faster than mewtwo that could take mewtwo down.

    There are several different combinations that can take down mewtwo with the right combination of moves. I'm not going to list any of them, because it would be stupid of me to do so when I already proved my point that there are pokemon that have a higher speed than just deoxys.
    And you questioned my sanity. My Anime List

    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    if Arceus is the Alpha Pokemon

    wouldn't Mega Arceus be

    the O-Mega Pokemon

  19. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autis-misc View Post
    I wasn't generally actually using Jolteon as an example, I was just using it to say that it's not only deoxys that has a higher speed than mewtwo. also, I added in the King's Rock held item which boost the flinching effect by 10%, making 1 out of 10 moves cause the flinching status. Also, 76% - 90% would be practically enough to OHKO a mewtwo with a Critical. On the site you showed me, it would do 101% - 120%, which does, in fact, result to an OHKO.



    Not my point. If you actually read my entire post, you would see that an Aerodactyl trained right could easily take down Mewtwo in 1-2 turns.
    With a speed tie? No
    Quote Originally Posted by Mew. View Post
    I guess you are a special one and do not fit under the "most people" category

  20. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elnava View Post
    With a speed tie? No
    If you read my entire post, EV trained in attack and speed.

    There won't be a speed tie.
    And you questioned my sanity. My Anime List

    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    if Arceus is the Alpha Pokemon

    wouldn't Mega Arceus be

    the O-Mega Pokemon

  21. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autis-misc View Post
    No, I was just proving a point that there are Pokemon faster than mewtwo that could take mewtwo down.
    except besides Accelgor and Ninjask, they don't actually take Mewtwo down without crits/lucky misses from Mewtwo's attacks/divine intervention

    Quote Originally Posted by Autis-misc View Post
    If you read my entire post, EV trained in attack and speed.

    There won't be a speed tie.
    because opposing players can't EV train, right

  22. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    except besides Accelgor and Ninjask, they don't actually take Mewtwo down without crits/lucky misses from Mewtwo's attacks/divine intervention

    because opposing players can't EV train, right
    Let us assume that this isn't competitive battling, and only 1 trainer actually EV trained.

    Because if it was a competitive battle, then I know that Aerodactyl could be taken down by mewtwo. Also, Mewtwo and Aerodactyl aren't in the same rank and I'm pretty sure that unless it's a wi-fi match, you can't take mewtwo into a ranked game via random battle.
    And you questioned my sanity. My Anime List

    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    if Arceus is the Alpha Pokemon

    wouldn't Mega Arceus be

    the O-Mega Pokemon

  23. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autis-misc View Post
    Let us assume that this isn't competitive battling, and only 1 trainer actually EV trained.
    ...May I ask what the point is, then?

  24. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autis-misc View Post
    If you read my entire post, EV trained in attack and speed.

    There won't be a speed tie.
    And why the hell would Mewtwo not be EV trained? Using situations that solely benefit your side of the argument doesnt help your argument. Speed tie
    Last edited by Elnava; 6th April 2013 at 10:59 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mew. View Post
    I guess you are a special one and do not fit under the "most people" category

  25. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos Rush View Post
    It's kinda a shame that people are blaming Sugimori for everything, when all he does is draw the final designs that others (and possibly himself too) came up with.
    Yes, I KNOW this, my entire post was explaining how much I know about this stuff. He still made the vast majority of gen.1 and especially gen. 2 pokemon. Cute pokemon in Gen. 1 like jigglypuff/wigglytuff and chansey were designed by atsuko nishida, and a few other pokemon like the mankey line, and ponyta line were made by Hyjung Lee, both of whom still work as TCG card artists. But still, the vast majority was sugimori.

    Some British dude designed the ice cream cones: [url]http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/James_Turner
    Again, Sugimori is the leader in Art direction, he chooses which pokemon appear in the game. That selection is further revised by Masuda.

    Quote Originally Posted by BCVM22 View Post
    Your argument basically boils down to saying that a bunch of people whose opinions don't matter were doing complaining in a forum where not a one of their complaints will ever be heard. That doesn't really lend support to what you're trying to claim.
    Kind of why I mentioned twitter, because I'm pretty sure that IS a place where peoples voices ARE heard.

    I can go staple a theses on why everything is awful to somebody's door. It doesn't mean they're going to read it.
    ....This makes no sense. Somebody getting a "free dominoes pizza" door hanger is something they never signed up for, which is why its trash to them. Twitter is something they sign up for, so they CAN communicate with their fans. That IS twitters purpose.(not that I'm denying many celebrities do it for promotional purposes)

    Sure is. Within the confines of their job as given to them by their workplace superiors. The designers take their cues from their own artistic sensibilities and training and from those above them, not from PokemonFan2112 on Pokemonforum.net. That certainly doesn't have to be mutually exclusive from creating things with appeal to the fans, but the mistake is made in assuming that the fans have any say or input on the matter.
    I am more then perfectly aware of this, given that art commissions are what I do the side. So excluding the first part about the workplace superiors(which is of course, sugimori, thus why I mentioned him in my last post), I'm aware that my job is to respond to criticism and improve upon it.

    Your right in that pokemon series would likely lose zero buys if they continue as is, but considering the excellent design of pokemon is what seperates it from other games, it sure as hell can attract a lot more buys.

    "Edgy for his tastes" is all well and good but it doesn't actually mean anything was or will be changed as a result.
    As mentioned, he leads the developement team and picks each and every pokemon, I'd say he could change the result quite easily if inclined to.


    Again, this a simple notion I had after years of dissecting pokemon designs and creating them. My point was more pointing to the style shift then what actually changed it.
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