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Thread: Welcome To The Land Of The Sand And Snow

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    39

    Default Welcome To The Land Of The Sand And Snow

    Hi guys,

    This is a new team Ive been working with recently and thought it'd be a good idea for you guys to rate it.

    Team At A Glance:



    Overview
    I recently got into using weather teams, Sand is by far my favorite due mostly to my favorite Pokemon, Tyranitar Ive been recently looking into running dual weather; Sun/rain is a common combo so I decided to do something different and go with Sand/Hail using the prior mentioned Tyranitar and the bad *** yetti Abomasnow.

    In Depth:


    Tyranitar@ Lum Berry
    Sand Stream
    EVs: 4 SpA/252 Atk/252 Speed
    Adamant
    Dragon Dance
    Crunch
    Fire Blast
    Stone Edge

    Tyranitar is the most important member of this team seeing as Sand Stream kicks off my whole strategy. I origngally ran Focus Sash on him to make sure he got off a Dragon Dance, but I made the switch to a Lum Berry after running into Breloom and Spore which could basically wreck the whole team. Dragon Dance is the setup move that allows T-Tar to get a monster attack level. Crunch is used for STAB and deals with Pyschics and ghosts that can hurt Latios. Fire Blast is my main way of countering Ferrothorn and other Steels that would otherwise wall this set. I chose this over Fire Punch because the accuracy drop was well worth the added power. Lastly, Earthquake hits pretty much anything hard that doesnt resist it.

    Donphan@ Leftovers
    Sturdy
    EVs: 252 Atk/172 HP/80 Def
    Adamant
    Rapid Spin
    Stealth Rock
    Ice Shard
    Earthquake



    Scizor@ Life Orb
    Technician
    EVs:252 HP 40 Atk/216 SpD
    Adamant
    Swords Dance
    Superpower
    Bullet Punch
    Scizor is arguable the best sand sweeper and after a swords dance boost it can wreck entire teams. Superpower allows Scizor to nail opposing steals and Tyranitar. Bullet Punch is priority STAB and has its power doubled by Technician. Life Orb cancels out the stat drop from using Superpower.


    Abomasnow@ Expert Belt
    Snow Warning
    EVs: 252 Atk/144 SpA/112 Speed
    Naughty
    Wood Hammer
    Ice Shard
    Blizzard
    HP Ground
    Abomasnow brings on the second wave of my weather with Snow Warning. Wood Hammer is my main move, Its STAB and provides a powerful check to Water types which are major threats to Excadrill and Tyranitar. Ice Shard is a priority move that gains STAB and allows me to easily pick off injured foes. Blizzard is my main Ice StAB move and has 100% accuracy in a hail storm. HP Ground handles Fires and Scizor.


    Latios@ Choice Specs
    Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def/252 SpA/252 Speed
    Timid
    Draco Meteor
    Psychic
    Thunderbolt
    Trick
    Latios is my pure special sweeper and is used to kill a variety of things that would otherwise counter my team. Draco Meteor is my STAB move that with a Dragon Gem guarantees a kill of any opposing dragon and serious damage to anything that doesnt resist it. Psychic is my counter for fighting types such as Conkeldurr and provides STAB, that, unlike DM allows Latios to stay in without a stat drop. Thunderbolt and Surf are for coverage; Thunderbolt for frailer waters and Gyarados, Surf hurts Fire types especially Heatran who can be fooled into coming into Latios on the switch.


    Gyarados@ Leftovers
    Intimidate
    EVs: 176 HP/128 Atk/204 Speed
    Adamant
    Dragon Dance
    Waterfall
    Taunt
    Ice Fang
    Gyarados is pretty much the glue of my team, it has good neutral damage and only two true weaknesses. Dragon Dance boosts Gyarados's attack that allows me to run the bulky set to take hits. Waterfall is the best STAB Water move it has and can wipe out fire types. Taunt stops Pokemon like Cressalia from coming in to set up on Gyarados.
    Thanks,
    STABX4
    Last edited by STABX4; 17th April 2013 at 4:09 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
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    Default

    Hello STABX4, very interesting team you have here. I'm more adept to an OU world without Excadrill's reign over the tier, so I'll try and adapt as I go along. That said, there are a couple changes I can see being very beneficial to your team.

    I notice that you only have 3 attacks on Scizor and may have forgotten to list the 4th. If I may, I suggest adding Roost to sustain Scizor's health with taking Life Orb's recoil damage and potentially Hail damage. Running an Sword Dance set also means that you'll be wanting to add more Sp.Def and Hp EVs to help Scizor withstand attacks while setting up. Otherwise, this task will become more of a pressuring challenge for Scizor and may result in its being KO'ed. However, if you intended on using an offensive Swords Dance variant Scizor, you'll be wanting to simple add Bug Bite in the final move slot. Again, an alternative standard bulky Scizor spread of 252 Hp/ 40 Attack/ 216 Sp.Def is always an option for allowing Scizor set up opportunities on the field. You'll really only be missing out on outpacing Heatran, whom is not a significant threat to the team to say the least.

        Spoiler:- Scizor:


    Next, we come to Latios, whom seems to be the oddball of the team. While using Dragon Gem seems nice, its one time use makes it very dissatisfying. Choice Specs and Choice Scarf are overall more appealing items that could be used to help boost the power of each of its moves with Specs, and/or help it outpace opposing Pokemon with Scarf. Furthermore, you may find that the need to run Psyshock over Psychic is essential for handling Calm Blissey and Chansey variants who'd otherwise wall your current set and stall or worse; do something completely unpredictable like use the rare Flamethrower/Fire Blast + Serene Grace combo and possibly burn one of your physical attacks(Scizor, Gyarados, Excadrill). Coupled with this change should be Trick over Surf, since Gyarados has your Water coverage and having Thunderbolt helps to counter the common Rain team. Trick can cripple all Chansey walls by removing its Eviolite and thus reducing its bulk immensely and also aids in breaking down common walls to Latios such as Jirachi, again Blissey, & Jellicent by removing their Leftovers and forcing them all to hold a choice item, which none will enjoy.

        Spoiler:- Latios:


    Lastly, since priority is such a huge role in the current metagame, you could try Naughty nature over your current Lonely nature on Abomasnow to help reduce the damage from such attacks as Bullet Punch, Extremespeed & Mach Punch.

    So far, these are all that I can see that would be beneficial to the team. If anything threatening really stands out later on, I'll edit this immediately to suit the threat's presence. Best of luck with the team and I hope this was of some assistance.
    Last edited by CedOmega; 16th April 2013 at 12:32 PM.

    When in doubt, fight harder...Never accept defeat as temporary satisfaction...

    Leader of The Creed of the Dragon.
    Check out my latest RMT
    Credit to Astral Shadow for the Trainer Pose.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    39

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CedOmega View Post
    Hello STABX4, very interesting team you have here. I'm more adept to an OU world without Excadrill's reign over the tier, so I'll try and adapt as I go along. That said, there are a couple changes I can see being very beneficial to your team.

    I notice that you only have 3 attacks on Scizor and may have forgotten to list the 4th. If I may, I suggest adding Roost to sustain Scizor's health with taking Life Orb's recoil damage and potentially Hail damage. Running an Sword Dance set also means that you'll be wanting to add more Sp.Def and Hp EVs to help Scizor withstand attacks while setting up. Otherwise, this task will become more of a pressuring challenge for Scizor and may result in its being KO'ed. However, if you intended on using an offensive Swords Dance variant Scizor, you'll be wanting to simple add Bug Bite in the final move slot. Again, an alternative standard bulky Scizor spread of 252 Hp/ 40 Attack/ 216 Sp.Def is always an option for allowing Scizor set up opportunities on the field. You'll really only be missing out on outpacing Heatran, whom is not a significant threat to the team to say the least.

        Spoiler:- Scizor:


    Next, we come to Latios, whom seems to be the oddball of the team. While using Dragon Gem seems nice, its one time use makes it very dissatisfying. Choice Specs and Choice Scarf are overall more appealing items that could be used to help boost the power of each of its moves with Specs, and/or help it outpace opposing Pokemon with Scarf. Furthermore, you may find that the need to run Psyshock over Psychic is essential for handling Calm Blissey and Chansey variants who'd otherwise wall your current set and stall or worse; do something completely unpredictable like use the rare Flamethrower/Fire Blast + Serene Grace combo and possibly burn one of your physical attacks(Scizor, Gyarados, Excadrill). Coupled with this change should be Trick over Surf, since Gyarados has your Water coverage and having Thunderbolt helps to counter the common Rain team. Trick can cripple all Chansey walls by removing its Eviolite and thus reducing its bulk immensely and also aids in breaking down common walls to Latios such as Jirachi, again Blissey, & Jellicent by removing their Leftovers and forcing them all to hold a choice item, which none will enjoy.

        Spoiler:- Latios:


    Lastly, since priority is such a huge role in the current metagame, you could try Naughty nature over your current Lonely nature on Abomasnow to help reduce the damage from such attacks as Bullet Punch, Extremespeed & Mach Punch.

    So far, these are all that I can see that would be beneficial to the team. If anything threatening really stands out later on, I'll edit this immediately to suit the threat's presence. Best of luck with the team and I hope this was of some assistance.
    Thanks a lot man! the changes are much appreciated. One more thing if you dont mind, can you think of a good alternate to Excadrill? I dont want my whole team to be crippled if I use it in metas where it is banned such as None wifi style tournaments or Pokemon Showdown. I was thinking about this Donphan set to give me a Spinner because entry hazards do seem to be a bit of an issue:

    Donphan@ Leftovers
    Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 Speed
    Impish
    Rapid Spin
    Stealth Rock
    Ice Shard
    Earthquake
    Thanks again

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    England
    Posts
    955

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by STABX4 View Post
    Hi guys,

    This is a new team Ive been working with recently and thought it'd be a good idea for you guys to rate it.

    Team At A Glance:



    Overview
    I recently got into using weather teams, Sand is by far my favorite due mostly to my favorite Pokemon, Tyranitar and his counterpart, Excadrill. *Cue Excadrill is Uber whining* Although Excadrill maybe Uber it is still legal on wifi and has major weaknesses to 3 major offensive types so no, IMO its perfectly legal to use. Ive been recently looking into running dual weather; Sun/rain is a common combo so I decided to do something different and go with Sand/Hail using the prior mentioned Tyranitar and the bad *** yetti Abomasnow.

    In Depth:


    Tyranitar@ Lum Berry
    Sand Stream
    EVs: 4 SpAtk/252 Atk/252 Speed
    Naughty
    Dragon Dance
    Crunch
    Fire Blast
    Earthquake/Stone Edge

    Tyranitar is the most important member of this team seeing as Sand Stream kicks off my whole strategy. I origngally ran Focus Sash on him to make sure he got off a Dragon Dance, but I made the switch to a Lum Berry after running into Breloom and Spore which could basically wreck the whole team. Dragon Dance is the setup move that allows T-Tar to get a monster attack level. Crunch is used for STAB and deals with Pyschics and ghosts that can hurt Latios. Fire Blast is my main way of countering Ferrothorn and other Steels that would otherwise wall this set. I chose this over Fire Punch because the accuracy drop was well worth the added power. Lastly, Earthquake hits pretty much anything hard that doesnt resist it. Makes no sense lowering his special attack if you're running fire blast, also definitely consider stone edge over earthquake as it hits flying dragons hard and has STAB. Personally I would run a totally different set, but since I guess you like the DD set I just made a few slight changes


    Excadrill@ Air Balloon
    Sand Rush
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Speed
    Adamant
    Swords Dance
    Iron Head
    Rock Slide
    Earthquake
    Excadrill completes the other half of the most infamous sand combo there is. Swords Dance allows it to become a feared sweeper when you factor in that Sand Rush allows it to outspeed basically anything. Iron Head is a Powerful STAB move that has a 30% chance to cause a flinch. Rock Slide is there mostly for Dragonite who could potentially kill Latios. Earthquake deals with Fire types and opposing Excadrill. Air Ballon eliminates the Ground weakness. Standard, nothing else to say here


    Scizor@ Choice band
    Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk/ 248 HP, 8 Spe
    Adamant
    U-turn
    Superpower
    Bullet Punch
    Quick attack/Pursuit
    Scizor is agurabley the best sand sweeper and after a swords dance boost it can wreck entire teams. Superpower allows Scizor to nail opposing steals and Tyranitar. Bullet Punch is priority STAB and has its power doubled by Technician. Life Orb cancels out the stat drop from using Superpower. [Since you already have set up tyranitar and excadrill, another set up sweeper would be unnecessary, CB scizor fits your team much better. Also you forgot to put a fourth move so I did it for you[/b]


    Abomasnow@ Expert Belt
    Snow Warning
    EVs: 252 Atk/144 SpA/112 Speed
    Lonely
    Wood Hammer
    Ice Shard
    Blizzard
    HP Fire
    Abomasnow brings on the second wave of my weather with Snow Warning. Wood Hammer is my main move, Its STAB and provides a powerful check to Water types which are major threats to Excadrill and Tyranitar. Ice Shard is a priority move that gains STAB and allows me to easily pick off injured foes. Blizzard is my main Ice StAB move and has 100% accuracy in a hail storm. HP Fire takes care of Opposing Grass Pokemon. Seems plausible, not sure if this is standard or not since I have never used abomasnow and you rarely ever see him in OU so I can't really comment


    Latios@ life orb
    Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Speed
    Timid
    Draco Meteor
    Psychic/psychoshock
    Thunderbolt
    Surf
    Latios is my pure special sweeper and is used to kill a variety of things that would otherwise counter my team. Draco Meteor is my STAB move that with a Dragon Gem guarantees a kill of any opposing dragon and serious damage to anything that doesnt resist it. Psychic is my counter for fighting types such as Conkeldurr and provides STAB, that, unlike DM allows Latios to stay in without a stat drop. Thunderbolt and Surf are for coverage; Thunderbolt for frailer waters and Gyarados, Surf hurts Fire types especially Heatran who can be fooled into coming into Latios on the switch. Moves and stuff are fine, but trust me, life orb is better. Also not sure if this fits into hail and sandstorm but whatever, it could work as a frail sweeper I guess.


    Gyarados@ Leftovers
    Intimidate
    EVs: 176 HP/128 Atk/204 Speed
    Adamant
    Dragon Dance
    Waterfall
    Substitute
    Bounce/Ice fang
    Gyarados is pretty much the glue of my team, it has good neutral damage and only two true weaknesses. Dragon Dance boosts Gyarados's attack that allows me to run the bulky set to take hits. Waterfall is the best STAB Water move it has and can wipe out fire types. Taunt stops Pokemon like Cressalia from coming in to set up on Gyarados. Bounce allows me to avoid status moves that would cripple Gyarados and to scout for an opponent's attacks it also destroys fighting types.
    Thanks, Again not sure if this fits onto a sand team or a hail team, especially since this set is designed to tank hits and recover slowly with leftovers which is not something generally associated with unnecessary residual damage, but each to there own. Also i don't care if it's standard or whatever, but from personal experience I find sub works much better than taunt on gyarados, especially in a team like this where he will constantly be taking damage, and bounce is a viable move, but I find ice fang to be much better in general and more reliable.
    STABX4
    So yeah, made some changes in bold. Personally, though, (and it may be a little late to say this) I find the whole concept of your team to be flawed, double weather is very niche as it is, especially two types of weather as different as hail and sandstorm. Also you have nothing except abomasnow its self that takes advantage of hail at all. Both gyarados and latios are hindered by both weathers, not helped. Take my honest advice and go back to the drawing board mate, if you really want to use a team with two types of weather try and find pokemon that benefit from both, for example scizor works in both rain and sandstorm, rain weakens his fire weakness and ss provides some nice damage to his enemies and not him.
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  5. #5
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    Feb 2013
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    West Virginia
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    My honest opinion, Donphan can fit over Excadrill. However, a spread of 252 Attack/ 172 Hp/ 80 Def is, from my personal experience, effective @ tanking common physical attacks while having an Adamant nature and full investment in Attack allows Donphan to hit Dragons, and others hard with Ice Shard.

    When in doubt, fight harder...Never accept defeat as temporary satisfaction...

    Leader of The Creed of the Dragon.
    Check out my latest RMT
    Credit to Astral Shadow for the Trainer Pose.

  6. #6
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    Eh, a couple comments, at school now so I'll keep it short.

    1. Sun/Rain is probably the worst of the dual weather combinations. I've tried it and it's bloody hard to make work. It shouldn't be common at all. I'd actually say the best are Mud (Rain/Sand) and Sleet (Rain/Hail). I've made a very nice Mud team I have tons of fun with and I'm considering giving Sleet a try too, it seems fun. I wouldn't say double weather is extremely niche at all, seeing as it can be really effective against just about any team when made right, but the most important part is the two weathers. They have to work well together. Sand and Hail don't.

    2. I don't really see what Hail does for you. You've got nothing that actually uses it besides Abomasnow. The reason Mud and Sleet work is they have so many abusers they can share. As far as Sand and Hail both, all I can think of is Magic Guarders like Reuniclus and Sigilyph.

    Basically, I'm saying I don't see the point of the Hail here. I think this'd function better as a dedicated Sand team, to be honest.
    Last edited by loco1234; 17th April 2013 at 12:18 AM.
    "Whether Castform the Weather Pokemon can weather the weather is dependent on whether the weather that it's weathering is the proper weather for it to weather. Whether the opponent can weather the weather is also subject to whether the weather that it's weathering is the right weather to weather. Whether Castform can weather the opponent is once again dictated by the weather and whether that weather is the favorable weather for weathering. But most importantly, you should know whether there will be weather to weather rather than what weather they will be weathering and whether they can weather that weather."

    - Smogon's Castform analysis

  7. #7
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    OP udated with changes in Bold
    thanks guys

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