View Poll Results: What is the worst way Ash lost a League

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  • Ritchie winning because Charizard disobeyed him

    26 27.66%
  • Harrison winning with Blaziken

    2 2.13%
  • Tyson winning with Meowth

    2 2.13%
  • Tobias winning with Darkrai and Latios

    13 13.83%
  • Cameron winning with 5 Pokemon

    51 54.26%
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Thread: What is the worst way Ash lost a League?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sprinter1988 View Post
    No, I knew that the writers would not want him to win, but it felt like that was a good time to let him win and have it be a convincing win if they wanted to do so. I'd have liked it better if he had lost in a close run battle with another trainer who was just as strong and just happened to beat him. But instead they just shoved in Darkrai and Latios to make sure that he lost. It was cheap and ultimately disrespectful to all the development that the character had gone through, not only in Sinnoh, but through the Battle Frontier, Hoenn and Johto.
    I have to agree with you with Sinnoh being Ash's worst league loss, but I have gripes with what you said about Darkrai and Latios being cop-outs.

    Rather, I think the main reason why Ash lost that one was because of his own stupidity, optimism and lack of knowledge on the opponent. When someone comes in with a Darkrai, it shouldn't be too surprising for that same trainer to have more legendary Pokemon or a team of over-the-top powerful regular Pokemon backing it up. By all rights, Ash had the means to counter Tobias's Pokemon, and even if he was focused on Darkrai alone, he could've just assumed the worst and brought some of his best Pokemon instead. We've already seen that Ash is capable of calling Charizard over all the way from Unova, but no, instead we saw 2 average Pokemon and a throwaway Pokemon get one-shotted by Darkrai alone. The battle itself could have been a callback to some of the previous techniques that Ash learned through his Sinnoh adventures (i.e., counter-shield from the battle with Fantina).

    There could be some arguments made that if Ash had beat Tobias and won the league, the series would've been over, but if you ask me, it could've given the writers a chance to either truly start fresh and enforce the whole "new beginnings" theme, or delve into what Ash would be going through after beating the League and Champion in Sinnoh. Even if Ash beat the Champion, he would probably just give the title back to Cynthia and leave for a new adventure; also, being Champion does not mean you've become a Pokemon Master (vague dream as it is), so all this could make Ash begin to question what a Pokemon Master really is. In search for this answer, he could tackle the Unova league and the writers could've really hammered in his "mentor" role through Trip and maybe Iris while still keeping his personality intact.

    Well, I've droned on for long enough. I can talk as much as I want about what would be ideal, but odds are, I bet no one's going to even bother to respond to this post.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by PokeMaster366 View Post
    I have to agree with you with Sinnoh being Ash's worst league loss, but I have gripes with what you said about Darkrai and Latios being cop-outs.

    Rather, I think the main reason why Ash lost that one was because of his own stupidity, optimism and lack of knowledge on the opponent. When someone comes in with a Darkrai, it shouldn't be too surprising for that same trainer to have more legendary Pokemon or a team of over-the-top powerful regular Pokemon backing it up. By all rights, Ash had the means to counter Tobias's Pokemon, and even if he was focused on Darkrai alone, he could've just assumed the worst and brought some of his best Pokemon instead. We've already seen that Ash is capable of calling Charizard over all the way from Unova, but no, instead we saw 2 average Pokemon and a throwaway Pokemon get one-shotted by Darkrai alone. The battle itself could have been a callback to some of the previous techniques that Ash learned through his Sinnoh adventures (i.e., counter-shield from the battle with Fantina).

    There could be some arguments made that if Ash had beat Tobias and won the league, the series would've been over, but if you ask me, it could've given the writers a chance to either truly start fresh and enforce the whole "new beginnings" theme, or delve into what Ash would be going through after beating the League and Champion in Sinnoh. Even if Ash beat the Champion, he would probably just give the title back to Cynthia and leave for a new adventure; also, being Champion does not mean you've become a Pokemon Master (vague dream as it is), so all this could make Ash begin to question what a Pokemon Master really is. In search for this answer, he could tackle the Unova league and the writers could've really hammered in his "mentor" role through Trip and maybe Iris while still keeping his personality intact.

    Well, I've droned on for long enough. I can talk as much as I want about what would be ideal, but odds are, I bet no one's going to even bother to respond to this post.
    Ash's Heracross was there to show how strong Darkrai was, Swellow, Torkoal and even Gible were just there to take the hits. It's just another way that the writers copped out on Ash.
    I don't think that the series would have had to have ended if Ash had won the league, nor would it have been the end of his role in the show. Instead they could have let him challenge the elite four and maybe the champion, lose, and then gone to Unova and act as a mentor to a new trainer instead of the stupid regression that he went through.
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sprinter1988 View Post
    No, I knew that the writers would not want him to win, but it felt like that was a good time to let him win and have it be a convincing win if they wanted to do so. I'd have liked it better if he had lost in a close run battle with another trainer who was just as strong and just happened to beat him. But instead they just shoved in Darkrai and Latios to make sure that he lost. It was cheap and ultimately disrespectful to all the development that the character had gone through, not only in Sinnoh, but through the Battle Frontier, Hoenn and Johto.
    He beat two legendary Pokémon, one of which not a single gym leader had managed to beat (Darkrai).

    If anything, losing to Cameron was more of a disgrace.


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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    He beat two legendary Pokémon, one of which not a single gym leader had managed to beat (Darkrai).

    If anything, losing to Cameron was more of a disgrace.
    Losing to Cameron was a disgrace, losing to Tobias was a cop out by the writers.
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    He beat two legendary Pokémon, one of which not a single gym leader had managed to beat (Darkrai).

    If anything, losing to Cameron was more of a disgrace.
    We can always say that Ash only lost against Cameron because he refused to use some of his older, more powerful Pokemon. It was still unknown how much Cameron's Unova Pokemon had grown, especially considering how often he would miss Tournaments and Leagues if it weren't for Ash and friends.

  6. #56
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    Idk Cameron is some super genius with his headband so not him lol. But Ritchie and Harrison were the losses I didn't like. Idk why with Harrison I guess it made me mad that Ash came so close. >.>
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by yuoke View Post
    The only thing is, Cameron's last pokemon almost for sire would have been watchog, which is arguably the weakest fully evolved pokemon of the generation, therefore prerty much wouldn't have given ash trouble at all.
    which is why they should've left it in. At least that might've given boldore,oshawott or unfeazent a win.

  8. #58
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    Cameron.

    In the end,it doesn't matter if he had a Hydreigon.He was still quite the duh-duh himself,he didn't even know he had to register for the league.(Implying that he never entered one)
    Plus his choices:he seriously suicide-run two of his PKM,showing just how awesome his strategy was.And to finish it all,he forgot a PKM!But not to wrry right?Who said he would need that.So the 4=League veteran lost to a mentally -insert word- person.

    As Janovy said,2 legendaries > 4 normal.In fact,I would them to pull off a cliché with another legendary run(3 this time),then making them lose to such a n00b.

    Oh well,that's what I get for even giving that League a chance.(At least Kenyan vs Satoshi was ok,to say the least).
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  9. #59
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    The worst one for me to stomach was meowth. I can take Charizard being too good for Ash because at the time he was. I can take Blaziken and Lucario because those pokemon were cool and badass. I can watch Latios because it shows that there are people who go for the best Pokemon rather than the cutest to win, but meowth? No freaking way.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    The worst one for me to stomach was meowth. I can take Charizard being too good for Ash because at the time he was. I can take Blaziken and Lucario because those pokemon were cool and badass. I can watch Latios because it shows that there are people who go for the best Pokemon rather than the cutest to win, but meowth? No freaking way.
    I found meowth less problematic only because of metagross. Pikachu was damaged by it(and considering the how much more powerful it was probably tired pika out just to cause it sufficient damage). Then the rest doesn't come down to meowth as much as tyson knowing how to defend against pikachu.

  11. #61

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    Meh, even though clone Ash was annoying to me I at least understood his lost back than cuz he was a newbie that was slowly starting to mature and become a better trainer, the only thing that blocked him from moving up was Charizard who wouldn't listen to him at that time.

    In BW League, my gosh that was freakin horrible. Kid shouldn't have even been allowed to fight in the first place with only five Pokemon, that was the worst thing about that over all. At least follow your own dang rules!!
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  12. #62
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    I'd say the Johto and Sinnoh Leagues were definitely the best. (Orange League too)

    All the other leagues were pretty lame.

    Indigo was too barebone, and I disliked how there were no strong trainers in the league. Ritchie was weak, and had Ash's Charizard obeyed him, he probably would've won the competition no problem. Which is sad considering he was a rookie.

    Hoenn League was just a snoozefest. I can't pinpoint why, it just was- I liked the battle with Katie though

    And the Unova League was just a disgrace to Ash's development as a trainer. If Ash used his reserves in the Unova League (and Hoenn League), he'd have won. There always seems to be an intentional roadblock just to make Ash lose the leagues.

    Johto and Sinnoh really highlighted Ash's strengths as a trainer, while giving him fair and interesting challenges. Yes, Tobias was thrown in to make Ash lose but I found it very cool to watch Ash challenge legendaries (doing better against them than any other trainer in the league)

  13. #63
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    Cameron hands down, for a couple of reasons in my book. 5 Pokemon detail included :T (Although Ritchie comes close).

    ~ This was the League following right after Sinnoh, a region where Ash performed generally well as a whole.

    ~ Since Kanto, his tourney placements usually progressed. Top 16 -> Orange League Championship -> Top 8 -> Top 8 + Battle Frontier Championship -> Top 4. This is a step backwards.

    ~ Cameron was a borderline scrub, or at least he was kinda portrayed like one.

    ~ The rest of the League was rather dull to me, so there isn't much to salvage the quality (apart from the animation being spectacular :V)...I mean Tobias was unreasonably cheap, but the rest of the Sinnoh League was great enough for me to look past it, and Ash showed some progress in the end.
    Last edited by Emperor Empoleon; 30th May 2013 at 7:22 AM.
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  14. #64

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    Are we only talking about the final match-ups? (Charizard vs Pikachu, Blaziken vs Charizard, Pikachu vs Meowth, Pikachu vs Latios, Pikachu vs Lucario?).

    If we are, Ash losing to Harrison was the worst.

    There was no tension at all between Pikachu and Meowth's fight and it ended very quickly too.

    If we're talking about the trainer Ash lost to overall, Cameron was definetly the worst. By god it was awful. Losing to 5 Pokemon would have been alright, but the fact the trainer was just mentally deficient with a severe case of head injury makes me wonder what the hell Ash is doing wrong.

    IT ANNOYS ME JUST THINKING ABOUT IT WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY.

  15. #65
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    Cameron > Richie > Tobias > Tyson/Harrison

    Cameron's battle was just bs. It was basically Pignite and Pikachu VS Hydreigon and Lucario, what is the point.

  16. #66
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    Cameron by far. He was practically an idiot and used a steel/bug type against a fire type and a water/flying type against an electric type. It was obvious the writers got lazy with that fight and gave an excuse for Ash to catch up. Obviously not development in Ash reaching his goal.

  17. #67
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    I'd say Ash losing to Ritchie because Charizard didn't obey him... He definitely could have won if it had listened. I don't think it was fair..

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