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Thread: What could be done to make Ash more interesting (other than winning a league)

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    Default What could be done to make Ash more interesting (other than winning a league)

    Most of us, as I can see, aren't allthat interested in Ash. Whether you lost interest in him in BW, or an earlier saga, most of us at least seem to agree that he's not that great.

    So, what make him a better character (not trainer) to you?
    Last edited by Brownie; 23rd April 2013 at 8:40 PM.
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    No regressions, winning a league, not making rookie mistakes, evolve all his plushiemons including Pikachu, there's probably more lol
    Also he should actually try some of Paul's methods and strategies, because Paul is one of the best ordinary trainers in the anime, apart from the elite 4 members, Brandon, and the champions.
    Last edited by Dawn+Serena Fan; 23rd April 2013 at 8:53 PM.
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    I meant as a character, not trainer.
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    This is just for me, and I speak for nobody else but myself. Make him more like his AG self, mature but he knows how to have fun and inspires trainers the right way. Give him new Pokemon. I'm sorry but I am sick of Grass, Fire, Water, and Flying Pokemon every region. It's worse when they are the Starters. More creative teams. Have a Poison, Dark, Dragon, Steel, and Rock Pokemon one region, and then next region have a Grass, Flying, Ghost, Psychic, hybrid Pokemon the next. With so many Pokemon types, it's boring to see the main character get the exact same types of Pokemon over and over again, teaching them moves like Aqua Jet, Flamethrower, and junk that his reserves already know at Oak's lab and they do it better. This is why I feel Pokemon like Quilava and Torkoal are wasted on Ash. He has Charizard and Infernape. Why pick one of them over these two fire powerhouses? Also Ash does not need to bond with every single Legendary Pokemon. Seriously give the other characters on the main cast a turn.

    And to be honest it wasn't BW that made me lose interest in Ash, it was DP, my favorite saga so far. Even then I realized Ash was doing the same thing over and over again. The truth of the matter is Pokemon is repetitive no matter how you look at it. The games main plot is to get badges and win the league, while stopping a new evil team all the time. Me personally, I feel Ash peaked a long time ago and the writers just use him as a safe lifeline so don't have drop in ratings like Yugioh and Digimon, but while they avoided this problem they have created another one and ratings are dropping anyway. The truth of the matter is, I probably would like Ash more if he simply moved to a full on
    mentorship role for a new character. Not like Brock, I would actually make him a very important part of the show, but as main character goes, what more does Ash have to learn? He's just learning stuff he's already learned before. And that is my personal take on this. Feel free to hate it.
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    Those sound like good ideas, though I still think he should have to learn lessons as a mentor (ie: Don't guide them too much - allow them to blossom, don't be too strict, etc.).

    As for personality, I'm not sure if I agree or disagree, but then I'm not a super fan.
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    Not that this would ever happen, but have Ash lose a really important battle or something that makes him start to question himself, his training, and everything he stands for, so much so that he goes through a lengthy period of important emotional development that keeps resurfacing throughout a saga at the more inopportune times, causing strained relationships with his friends and Pokemon. Obviously have him overcome it in the end though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brownie View Post
    Those sound like good ideas, though I still think he should have to learn lessons as a mentor (ie: Don't guide them too much - allow them to blossom, don't be too strict, etc.).

    As for personality, I'm not sure if I agree or disagree, but then I'm not a super fan.
    Well yeah, he would be a good mentor, meaning he'll help them out at the most two major tight spots, but then he tells them the third time and beyond when something happens they must do it themselves or they'll never stop being dependent on him. I just feel like Pokemon is missing that kind of relationship and they can't do it with Ash, he's been through enough regions where he should be the big brother of the group. It would also show Ash has truly progressed as a mature figure and really act like a Pokemon Master. That is what I want to see in Ash, but I know I'll never get it. It would be awesome if it was Karate Kid style, Ash training new trainers in unusual ways and it actually works. The dynamics he would have with the boys of the group and the girls would be different but fun for me to watch.
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    Ash is a good enough character.

    His problem is that he's a horrible Trainer who repeatedly makes terrible decisions regarding his Pokemon and Training.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Benmeister View Post
    Not that this would ever happen, but have Ash lose a really important battle or something that makes him start to question himself, his training, and everything he stands for, so much so that he goes through a lengthy period of important emotional development that keeps resurfacing throughout a saga at the more inopportune times, causing strained relationships with his friends and Pokemon. Obviously have him overcome it in the end though.
    That was DP in a nutshell.....How do you think progressed with the rivalry with paul.....


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    I liked the idea of introducing rookies for him to travel with (May and Dawn) and having become a middle character (like Misty and Iris). Perhaps have someone completely hopeless, a bit like a more naive May. Having him become more of a mentor while still learning himself could help, or even get rid of the fatherly figure (Brock and Cilan) and bring in two new rookies, making Ash the fatherly figure.

    Perhaps introduce his father?
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    Eh well I personally think we need to know more about his personality and stuff. Like sure he has one, but it feels copy and paste in ways. Just something to make him feel more dynamic. But to do that'd there'd need to be some other plot. ._.
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    Actually do some character development and stop starting from scratch every time there is a new region to go to. They have just done an awful job with the character. In fact, I think practically anyone could do a better job at writing the series than the hacks they have now. Just my opinion of course

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    Honestly, I think it would be easier if the writers created a brand-new character instead of them trying to salvage Ash. I mean no offense to people who like him, but he seems so flawed to me that I can't see any way of fixing him. But I suppose the first step would be to make him age because at least then we would have the illusion of him maturing, which I think is better than seeing him remain as a 10-year-old kid forever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciccone View Post
    Honestly, I think it would be easier if the writers created a brand-new character instead of them trying to salvage Ash. I mean no offense to people who like him, but he seems so flawed to me that I can't see any way of fixing him. But I suppose the first step would be to make him age because at least then we would have the illusion of him maturing, which I think is better than seeing him remain as a 10-year-old kid forever.
    He can't age, he's in a coma XD
    I agree though, I think a brand new character would be better off than continuing with Ash and ruining him even more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciccone View Post
    Honestly, I think it would be easier if the writers created a brand-new character instead of them trying to salvage Ash. I mean no offense to people who like him, but he seems so flawed to me that I can't see any way of fixing him. But I suppose the first step would be to make him age because at least then we would have the illusion of him maturing, which I think is better than seeing him remain as a 10-year-old kid forever.
    If the writers ever did this then they would probably make him Ash clone. Meaning we're probably going to see the same character development episodes Ash had

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    At this point, I think most fans have become jaded with Ash. We've followed this kid and his generic personality for over a decade and throughout that time the writers have proven they haven't got a clue what to do with him. They played with the idea of a slightly more mature Ash who acted as a mentor figure to a new trainer in AG and DP, but then inexplicably decided to regress him in BW and try and pass him off as a novice or rookie trainer on the same level as trainers just starting their journey.

    While Ash suffers from that, I also feel that, more than anything, he suffers from not having a clear, defined, motivation. You could fiddle about with his personality all you want, but without knowing why this kid is the way he is, we're always going to be lacking that extra bit of depth that would make him somewhat interesting. At the moment, the only thing that's driving him to become a Pokemon Master is his own childish dream.

    It's just strange to me how a character like Trip has received that basic character development yet Ash hasn't, even after all this time. We know more about the backgrounds of Brock, Misty, May, Max, Dawn, Paul, Trip and Iris than we do of our main character, and those guys all had some unique quirk or facet of their personality that made them interesting during the time they were on the show; some of them even had hobbies outside of Pokemon battling!

    What does Ash got besides being a trainer? Any other talents or interests?

    To sum up, Ash is just too basic. Adding a few extra layers to his character would go a long way to making him a bit more interesting and relatable.

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    Have him age, he needs to age if he is ever gonna be semi mature and stop making stupid *** decisions.

    Also, introducing his dad as a mentor type character could be helpful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DedicatedFan View Post
    If the writers ever did this then they would probably make him Ash clone. Meaning we're probably going to see the same character development episodes Ash had
    Not if the studio hires new writers. Seriously, I think it's time for the anime to receive a complete overhaul, not just Ash. Although like I said, there is at least one way of making his character seem a little more relatable imo.

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    When was the last time that Ash evolved a water type BESIDES KINGLER!?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDaikenki View Post
    When was the last time that Ash evolved a water type BESIDES KINGLER!?
    Never lol. Palpitoad is the closest he came.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jh941 View Post
    I liked the idea of introducing rookies for him to travel with (May and Dawn) and having become a middle character (like Misty and Iris). Perhaps have someone completely hopeless, a bit like a more naive May. Having him become more of a mentor while still learning himself could help, or even get rid of the fatherly figure (Brock and Cilan) and bring in two new rookies, making Ash the fatherly figure.

    Perhaps introduce his father?

    Except for the father part, I think this is what they need to do. They also need to stop having Ash lose to rookies like Trip and Cameron. If I was writing the anime, I would only let my Ash lose to strong opponents.

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    They really can't do much, I "stand" by the character because its the main character since I was a kid but he is pretty bland, doesn't have many quirks and because they follow the game story with the 8th gyms he can't get real development because some kind of reset has always to happen, they really can't, they should just wrap his story next region and start a new "new" anime series, another setting.

    Giving him more pokemon or making him win a league doesn't make anthing diferent he will finally accomplish his dream but thats it.
    Last edited by Pepsi_Plunge; 24th April 2013 at 4:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1rkhachatryan View Post
    Never lol. Palpitoad is the closest he came.
    But no one seems to care about palpitoed...
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    Quote Originally Posted by DedicatedFan View Post
    Except for the father part, I think this is what they need to do. They also need to stop having Ash lose to rookies like Trip and Cameron. If I was writing the anime, I would only let my Ash lose to strong opponents.
    That was the case back in Hoenn and Sinnoh; Ash lost to Tyson, who was a fairly reasonable strong trainer. Ash managed to defeat rivals like Paul and Conway in the Sinnoh League, who both had strong strategies and were worthy opponents, and lost to a trainer with legendary pokemon. But in Unova, he lost to a rookie with overpowered pokemon.

    Personall, to make Ash more interesting, I think we should probably see more of the characters from his childhood. Ones like Professor Oak and Delia have regular appearances, but I'd like to see more of Gary, and learn more about what they were like when they were younger. The writers could always do a plot for Ash's character where, because we do not know who his father is, he is encountered numerous times by a trainer or criminal who claims to know his father. However, everytime he battles the trainer and tries to learn more of his father, he loses and always learns little parts of his childhood bit by bit that would reveal who and where he is.

    Basically, some storylines similar to the manga really.
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    Personally i still like Ash and his naivety, brash attitude and competitive spirit striving to become best. Mixed with childish and well intentioned demeanor putting lot of effort and care in pokemon often putting them in front of himself.

    Though i can understand people who are tired of repetitive, endless cycle hes been stuck into because im on same page about this too. But question does arise, is it worth the risk to try to replace serise mascot and lose people loyalty when writers could just instead fix mistakes and change current approach taking him on higher level?

    There are plenty of things going for Ash which could breathe new life in his character and make his adventures engaging to watch, being shame to have prospect for all exciting directions he could be taken forward go to waste.

    He still didn't won league, didn't challenged E4, champion etc not being even close to achievement of pokemon master dream. There are many things left unexplored about his past, such as father who could be introduced at some point being portrayed as master himself serving as ultimate test for Ash to prove if he has what it takes to become "best". Aka father vs son showdown.

    Writers could expand on whole connection to Ho-oh being said how this pokemon shows himself only to special trainers out there giving some background, explanation about this.

    We could see him after winning league leveling up as trainer learning how to develop new battling style, enter special harder challenges like Battle Frontier was, entering other leagues he didn't won and battle stronger trainers. Heck there could be whole tyoe of league foir "Masters" someone earns right to enter after winning champion league having completely new, unseen concept of tests and evaluators you need to pass to prove yourself worthy of title of pokemon master.

    In DP Lucian himself said how winning champion league is one of steps someone needs to conquer on road of becoming master, but its not only one. So we don't know what other challenges and complex tasks(like Battle Frontier was for example) Ash would need to accomplish before he becomes recognized as strongest trainer in world. Character wise Ash also has many flaws which stand on his way of becoming successful and respected trainer one day too suffering from immaturity,being naive and prone to doing foolish mistakes at times acting before thinking etc.

    So he definitely has potential to go through more significant development bringing whole new enjoyable outlook on it.

    When i see Tyson or Gingka from Beyblade who became world champions with their stories instead of ending receiving sequel going through deeper growth. Goku from DBZ who continued to evolve and learn new things after defeating major villains or winning tournament, Dan from Bakugan who after becoming word renowned brawler went through harder challenges having new problems and tasks to overcome i know for fact how there could be surely done a lot with Ash after winning league as well. As already explained before.

    Its only up to writers if they have motivation and courage to do step forward, and judging by decrease pf people interest, constant rating decline and negative critics they are reaching turning point where they would either have to custom things out and change status quo or sink down even lower.

    Way i see it with Ash we could see already experienced trainer who has background behind himself going on bigger tasks reaching higher levels as trainer which means stable and stronger pokemon, deeper development, better battles, opportunity to dive more into someone history etc.
    Additionally with him there exists requirements to take established character to new, unexpected directions having more complex growth.

    Something you cannot do with rookies who are just starting out having to go through basics all over again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ciccone View Post
    Not if the studio hires new writers. Seriously, I think it's time for the anime to receive a complete overhaul, not just Ash. Although like I said, there is at least one way of making his character seem a little more relatable imo.
    Honestly there still wouldn't be need for new protagonist since skills from new set of writers would just reflect on Ash development as character making better job with him and story.

    If anime comes to an end, i would rather have it that they finish it with character with who started everything (Ash)treating this series as one big continuity, not making any new alternate series after this. Pokemon had pretty good run so far, and everything must come to an end eventually.

    Better idea imo would be if pokemon tried out cast rotation.That way we would still get new characters, while at same time people being able to see their favorites from past(like Dawn, Misty, Brock, May etc) again in action and updated.

    Such thing could create groundwork on which it is possible to leave long lasting impact on audience, increase their loyalty toward show and set up path for stable ratings and increase of popularity in future. Because anime which keep older characters relevant doing mix of both older and new as result while choose to invest more in current protagonist taking him on bigger and better things can become appealing not only to new kids, but older ones as well gathering large group of followers. Like One Piece, Naruto , Bakugan and similar ones are doing for years.

    Rather than getting rehash of current series with new protagonist which will do same all gym quest, have Pikachu as main mascot and be rather similar to Ash character getting rid of all characters and everything which pokemon represented losing brand and charisma it build around itself.

    Judging by massive demand for original trio reunion it seems to me how most fans just want better written show which pays attention to history and previous companions investing more in kmain protagonist and his companions they grew to like. As opposite to starting things without finishing them, which is in writers habit it seems leaving most characters unfinished.
    Last edited by pokemon fan 132; 24th April 2013 at 3:32 PM.

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