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Thread: Treatment of Ash & Others in Best Wishes, Purpose of Da! Discussion

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    Default Treatment of Ash & Others in Best Wishes, Purpose of Da! Discussion

    I'm a bit rusty since I haven't made a thread in ages... So we've had 5 tournaments in total in Best Wishes, 4 being major:

    Don Battle: Top 2 of 16

    Donamite: Top 4 of 16

    Junior Cup: Top 2 of 16

    Unova League: Top 8 of 128

    Marine Cup: Winner

    Anybody else disappointed that they bothered to introduce such a pointless tournament that only acted as a time consumer in the most recent episode, which they make Ash win?

    They didn't let him win any of the tournaments that was the major focus & then they introduce a 5 minute tournament that Ash wins. From what I can gather in this series, if its something minor, Ash gets to win. Have they just given up or something?

    And now its making me wonder about the entire series in general as well. We have an episode about Crocanaw, the Eevee Episode, we've had a Sweet Honey Episode, then this Detective Cilan Episode, then the Jirachi Episode & Oak Episode which don't seem that bad, same with the Zoroark Episode. Then Butterfree, Ash VS Iris, & Clair. Were not sure when exactly this saga is ending but we have most episodes revealed until July and a tournament doesn't even seem possible until after the Genosect Movie airs, which isn't until after July 14. And since they usually tend to show pictures/summaries/etc of upcoming episodes like 2-3 months in advance, then the Clair Episode will most likely occur in July, and 2 breaks are likely yet again in July, making the possibility of a tournament less likely.

    We have two rivals who's stories haven't concluded, yet the ending implies we won't see them again. If they wanted to fill in the gap why not add some better important events instead of showing things that don't add anything new to the characters. Then Iris hasn't done anything in a long time, with Clair's appearance being the only thing. Cilan may have an episode dedicated to him that's NOT filler. There is just so much things they can do but instead they have episodes that everyone will just forget. And to top it all off there isn't a main goal for Ash, battle-wise. I just have no clue what they are doing at this point.
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    Lol, the first part of this thread seems awfully familiar. I made one similar over at Bulbagarden XDD

    Yes, I find having the main character win some minor unimportant throwaway tournament (that wasn't even the focus of the episode, and largely forgettable) when the other characters got these more grandiose ones that gave out prizes to be odd.
    Last edited by Graham Aker; 12th May 2013 at 2:13 AM.

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    The marine cup was an obligatory win so Ash cant walk away completely empty handed.

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    One year from today:

    Fan 1: "You know come to think of it, did Ash ever win anything in BW?"

    Fan 2: "Yeah, the Marine Cup!"

    Fan 1: "The what!?"

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    Does it matter? Ash is the main character so even if he won this pointless cup, he's still going to have more accomplishments in the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HatersGonnaHate View Post
    Does it matter? Ash is the main character so even if he won this pointless cup, he's still going to have more accomplishments in the future.
    But he never won any major tournament with his Unova Pokemon. I think that's why people are disappointed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemaniac24 View Post
    One year from today:

    Fan 1: "You know come to think of it, did Ash ever win anything in BW?"

    Fan 2: "Yeah, the Marine Cup!"

    Fan 1: "The what!?"
    Yeah the true purpose is to be used as debate points down the line.

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    We have two rivals who's stories haven't concluded, yet the ending implies we won't see them again.
    *stare* ... because that has never happened before.

    You know, recurring characters leaving forever with no explanation and all. Not in this well written show with a tight-knit cast!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemaniac24 View Post
    But he never won any major tournament with his Unova Pokemon. I think that's why people are disappointed.
    It's pretty ironic considering how Gen V started as "check it out! ALL NEW Pokémon! No oldies!". Then "Ash caught more than 6 Pokémon in 14 years! Check it out!". Then "Hey guys! TRio got a promotion! They're taking orders from Giovanni for a huge plot!"

    It ended up being "Hey guys! Look at how silly Cilan is! He's sure more wacky than old Brocko!". Then, "Woah Iris is growing as a Dragon Master! She caught a DRAGONITE! Who cares about Axew's growth?".

    And then of course "Okay, Ash has a bunch of Pokémon. Let's give them one to three wins each in the entire series, so Pikachu, Krookodile, and Pignite can get the major wins in the final Don Tournament". "Hey wait a minute, what if we made it the Unova League? The fans would be happy with it coming sooner!" "GENIUS! Now that it's over, let's make another Kanto reference and send them off to islands to advertise old Pokémon"
    Last edited by TheFonz; 12th May 2013 at 3:46 AM.




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    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    The marine cup was an obligatory win so Ash cant walk away completely empty handed.
    Yeah but the Marine Cup wasn't as hyped and didn't seem all that important compared to the others before. Why couldn't he win in front of his other rivals that were around him at the time? And how come Ash only won something like this when Iris and Cilan weren't present?

    My ideal battle ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caseydia View Post
    Yeah but the Marine Cup wasn't as hyped and didn't seem all that important compared to the others before. Why couldn't he win in front of his other rivals that were around him at the time? And how come Ash only won something like this when Iris and Cilan weren't present?
    I don't get how Pikachu can beat an Eelektross and Galvantula but have lost to Cameron's Lucario




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    Quote Originally Posted by Caseydia View Post
    Yeah but the Marine Cup wasn't as hyped and didn't seem all that important compared to the others before. Why couldn't he win in front of his other rivals that were around him at the time? And how come Ash only won something like this when Iris and Cilan weren't present?
    \

    Beats me. I think it was just the writers realizing their mistake and attemping to fix it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFonz View Post
    I don't get how Pikachu can beat an Eelektross and Galvantula but have lost to Cameron's Lucario
    he took down Trip's godperior. is that not enough?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caseydia View Post
    Yeah but the Marine Cup wasn't as hyped and didn't seem all that important compared to the others before. Why couldn't he win in front of his other rivals that were around him at the time? And how come Ash only won something like this when Iris and Cilan weren't present?
    Iris was there, and lost with Axew in the first round. Cilan just watched and didn't enter for w/e reason.
    Last edited by Graham Aker; 12th May 2013 at 3:54 AM.

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    Guess the writers learned their lesson. Or maybe not. Sigh, the direction of the anime these days. I hope they'll learn not to dumb down Ash too much.

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    Ash basically accomplished nothing since Unova started. All he did was get worse and capture a bunch of lackluster pokemon that have no accomplishments whatsoever.

    Second worst team next to the Johto team by far.

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    Best Wishes was kind to everyone but Ash... his team wasn't horrible, but I couldn't connect with them due to the lack of onscreen training and overall usage too.

    I say just let DA run it's coarse, who know's, maybe something will surprise us
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    Da! is just filler. A couple of episodes with no meaning whatsoever just to fill the gap to gen 6. The Clair episodes might seem like something important, but they are just tools to get rid of Iris.

    If you are expecting anything other than filler in this saga, you are bound to be disappointed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracoflare View Post
    Da! is just filler. A couple of episodes with no meaning whatsoever just to fill the gap to gen 6. The Clair episodes might seem like something important, but they are just tools to get rid of Iris.

    If you are expecting anything other than filler in this saga, you are bound to be disappointed.
    Then it is not all filler. If Iris leaves that is no way filler

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    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightMelody View Post
    Then it is not all filler. If Iris leaves that is no way filler
    Ah please, stop nitpicking about little mistakes. Other than Iris: Everything is filler.

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    Every tournament loss has a decent explanation. Iris winning the Club Battle was linked to the recent breakthrough with Excadrill, her powerhouse who had a massive advantage over Pikachu. Besides, it's not like Iris isn't one of the main characters and the set of wings never came into play much. Snivy and Palpitoad each took out a major recurring rival and Cilan and Iris had the privilege of defeating Trip and Stephan, so I don't see the problem with this one. It's not like Iris beat Ash with Axew, she used her strongest pokemon who she's been with for a long time.

    In the Clubsplosion, the whole point was to showcase Sawk and Throh, plus a few other fighting-types they'd not featured yet (like Conkeldurr and Emboar) and develop Scraggy a little. Scraggy got some believeable victories against Simisage and Simipour but that tournament could only ever end one way, with Sawk defeating Throh against all odds. Ash, Iris and Cilan all had decent battles in the tournament but this one just wasn't for them or their pokemon to shine in.

    As for the Junior Cup, which I agree was majorly rushed, I believe that also ended exactly as it should dramatically. Trip idolised Alder, as had been set up a long time before, and wanted to battle him. We also had Iris' Dragonite, Dawn's return, Trip's newly-evolved Serperior, Georgia and Burgundy being back... that's a lot going on. Ash had the privilege of an evolution and victory for Krookodile against Iris' seemingly unstoppable Dragonite, but Trip was the one who needed that battle against Alder more than Ash. The battle was barely a couple of minutes long, because as with all champion challenges on the show Trip didn't stand a chance. They also needed to build up Serperior for the league, as presumably they'd decided by that point that Trip would only battle Ash with Serperior there.

    And then there's the League. Ash doesn't win Leagues. We know this. It was a disappointing League, but hardly a shocking one. Ash did well against two established rivals and a couple of off-screen guys. The writers dropped the ball with the Cameron battle, but the rest of the league was competent enough considering how short they had to make it.

    I definitely want another major challenge for Ash at the end of all of this Da nonsense, but I won't complain about Ash not winning tournaments when the writers had perfectly good reasons for Iris, Stephan and Trip to win their tournaments and didn't just decide at random, and Ash performed respectably in all three. And the league... come on, stop complaining about Ash not winning leagues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracoflare View Post
    Da! is just filler. A couple of episodes with no meaning whatsoever just to fill the gap to gen 6. The Clair episodes might seem like something important, but they are just tools to get rid of Iris.

    If you are expecting anything other than filler in this saga, you are bound to be disappointed.
    true, it is just wasting time until the next gen comes out, which is actually quite a while away. we should expect a lot of filler episodes that don't contribute at all. i doubt they will remove iris in the middle of the saga, so she'll be sticking around a bit.

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    Lets see, to me Ash and Dento got the worst treament out of the cast, if we are talking rivals than lets add Trip to the list too. Iris was treated like a Queen in the series pretty much and the other rivals were done good too. I think they did a good job with N's character in episode N. Over all, lets just say I'm looking forward to when Best Wishes ends, my opinion it was the worst of the series.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosMage View Post
    Every tournament loss has a decent explanation. Iris winning the Club Battle was linked to the recent breakthrough with Excadrill, her powerhouse who had a massive advantage over Pikachu. Besides, it's not like Iris isn't one of the main characters and the set of wings never came into play much. Snivy and Palpitoad each took out a major recurring rival and Cilan and Iris had the privilege of defeating Trip and Stephan, so I don't see the problem with this one. It's not like Iris beat Ash with Axew, she used her strongest pokemon who she's been with for a long time.

    In the Clubsplosion, the whole point was to showcase Sawk and Throh, plus a few other fighting-types they'd not featured yet (like Conkeldurr and Emboar) and develop Scraggy a little. Scraggy got some believeable victories against Simisage and Simipour but that tournament could only ever end one way, with Sawk defeating Throh against all odds. Ash, Iris and Cilan all had decent battles in the tournament but this one just wasn't for them or their pokemon to shine in.

    As for the Junior Cup, which I agree was majorly rushed, I believe that also ended exactly as it should dramatically. Trip idolised Alder, as had been set up a long time before, and wanted to battle him. We also had Iris' Dragonite, Dawn's return, Trip's newly-evolved Serperior, Georgia and Burgundy being back... that's a lot going on. Ash had the privilege of an evolution and victory for Krookodile against Iris' seemingly unstoppable Dragonite, but Trip was the one who needed that battle against Alder more than Ash. The battle was barely a couple of minutes long, because as with all champion challenges on the show Trip didn't stand a chance. They also needed to build up Serperior for the league, as presumably they'd decided by that point that Trip would only battle Ash with Serperior there.

    And then there's the League. Ash doesn't win Leagues. We know this. It was a disappointing League, but hardly a shocking one. Ash did well against two established rivals and a couple of off-screen guys. The writers dropped the ball with the Cameron battle, but the rest of the league was competent enough considering how short they had to make it.

    I definitely want another major challenge for Ash at the end of all of this Da nonsense, but I won't complain about Ash not winning tournaments when the writers had perfectly good reasons for Iris, Stephan and Trip to win their tournaments and didn't just decide at random, and Ash performed respectably in all three. And the league... come on, stop complaining about Ash not winning leagues.
    This. It's not as if Ash was thrown under a bus, everything happened for a reason. Whether you agree or not is debatable. Regardless, why does it matter so much? I'm actually grateful Ash doesn't haven any more useless trophies and crap cluttering up his already cluttered room.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDragonfangirl View Post
    Lets see, to me Ash and Dento got the worst treament out of the cast, if we are talking rivals than lets add Trip to the list too. Iris was treated like a Queen in the series pretty much and the other rivals were done good too. I think they did a good job with N's character in episode N. Over all, lets just say I'm looking forward to when Best Wishes ends, my opinion it was the worst of the series.
    Iris wasn't a queen, though Cilan probably deserved something to make people more invested in his character. However, that has nothing to do with Iris. And Ash is the same as he always is, sounds more like a drop in interest in his character, not that he's got worse treatment. He can't get any better treatment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gohan5 View Post
    Iris wasn't a queen, though Cilan probably deserved something to make people more invested in his character. However, that has nothing to do with Iris. And Ash is the same as he always is, sounds more like a drop in interest in his character, not that he's got worse treatment. He can't get any better treatment.
    So, your saying Iris didn't get any special treatment? Really??? I dare you to go back and re watch all the Pokemon series to BW and compare how Ash was treated than and nowXD Me thinking this has nothing to due with being bored of a character, its getting annoyed how the writers haven't really let him win any tournaments, in the past he did but not this series.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gohan5 View Post
    This. It's not as if Ash was thrown under a bus, everything happened for a reason. Whether you agree or not is debatable. Regardless, why does it matter so much? I'm actually grateful Ash doesn't haven any more useless trophies and crap cluttering up his already cluttered room.



    Iris wasn't a queen, though Cilan probably deserved something to make people more invested in his character. However, that has nothing to do with Iris. And Ash is the same as he always is, sounds more like a drop in interest in his character, not that he's got worse treatment. He can't get any better treatment.
    Seriously with the useless trophies comment?

    Have you even watched this show before BW started airing? I'm surprised you can say BW Ash is the same as the past 13 years before BW. Each series brought change, but BW stepped it up to a new level.

    With the first Don tournament, we never saw Ash lose to his companions while being able to use his best. Iris got three BS wins, which is what let be "Lolz Pikachu? Go Excadrill!". Pikachu at its best could definitely beat Excadrill. By best, I mean VS Latios best.

    The next Don tournament was great. Ash and Scraggy grew...although it was sad to see Scraggy get totally demolished

    The Junior Cup was a joke. Krookodile got a nice win but Boldore's battle gets skipped, and Pignite has a terrible loss just so Trip can get through the next round.

    The League was a joke. Ash does nice against Trip. It wasn't an awesome battle but acceptable. VS Stephan, things were looking better even though 2 battles got skipped for no reason. But the filler episode interruption and Ash losing the way he did against Cameron was a disgrace to the quality that the Leagues have had up to that point




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