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Thread: Treatment of Ash & Others in Best Wishes, Purpose of Da! Discussion

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    I think BW was a colossal mistake. Only AG and DP managed to slow, but not stop the reduction. But BW just plummeted. Especially the whole TR vs TP episodes not airing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by p96822 View Post
    I don't think that this was bad treatment as they did with the sinnoh League
    The Sinnoh league made Ash look amazing as a trainer. Sure it was a d*ck move to introduce a legendary trainer to kick him out, but at least it made him look strong in the process being the only one to not get completely destroyed by Darkrai. The Unova league did Ash no justice at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by p96822 View Post
    I don't think that this was bad treatment as they did with the sinnoh League
    Hey hey hey.

    They actually made a legendary look legendary in the sinnoh league. Unlike what they did with Reshiram.

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    Yah, D/P did a good job with Ash and his rivals I thought, that league really showed off his skills, he had to really use his brain against a guy like Conway than of course his fight against Paul was some thing else. What'd BW league do? Besides breaking its own rules? Rushed fights? Lack of training? I hope they fix this for the next league.
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    Ash didn't look good in Sinnoh because some of the Pokemon he used looked weaker then they were in their seasons. Ash's Sinnoh team also got this bad treatment after a while. Buzuel lossing agianst Mr. Mime, Flint's Infernape, Kenny's Empleon and Paul's Drapion. Starator getting pushed around by Team Rocket, nearly lossing to Paul's Gastrodon and lossing to Drapion. Torrtera lossing streck after evolving from Grotle. Swellow, Donphan, and Torkoral lossing without a good fight even though they could battle then that in the last series. Infernape, Pikachu and Gilble getting the wins for the sinnoh team. Hercross and Scepitile were the only two Pokemon that shown how powerful they got over the season. And if you guy remember that Ash lost two to six and that is even wrost then what unova did to him. I don'r care if Ash went to the top four, the reason why he went so high is because of a story arc was completed and it was short then the other league because Ash was facing off Paul for three episodes.

  6. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by p96822 View Post
    Ash didn't look good in Sinnoh because some of the Pokemon he used looked weaker then they were in their seasons. Ash's Sinnoh team also got this bad treatment after a while. Buzuel lossing agianst Mr. Mime, Flint's Infernape, Kenny's Empleon and Paul's Drapion. Starator getting pushed around by Team Rocket, nearly lossing to Paul's Gastrodon and lossing to Drapion. Torrtera lossing streck after evolving from Grotle. Swellow, Donphan, and Torkoral lossing without a good fight even though they could battle then that in the last series. Infernape, Pikachu and Gilble getting the wins for the sinnoh team. Hercross and Scepitile were the only two Pokemon that shown how powerful they got over the season. And if you guy remember that Ash lost two to six and that is even wrost then what unova did to him. I don'r care if Ash went to the top four, the reason why he went so high is because of a story arc was completed and it was short then the other league because Ash was facing off Paul for three episodes.
    Ash's Buizel learned Ice Punch and beat Mr.Mime.I agree his loss against Kenny's Empeleon was annoying, but Buizel beat Paul's Gastrodon with Ice Punch in Sinnoh League.
    Ash won Pokeringer tournament with Staraptor, also Staraptor beat one of Nando's pokemon in Sinnoh League.
    Torterra and Staroptor didn't battle well against Paul, because Shinji/Paul already have these pokemons, so he know their weakness.For example using ice beam on Staraptor was a great strategy.I agree Torterra could have done better, that Drapion was overpowered,but Paul is a really strong trainer.
    Ash losing to Flint's Infernape was fine.Because Flint is one of the E4 members.Surely his Infernape's level is higher than Ash's.He knows Close Combat, Flare Blitz etc, but Ash's Infernape learned Flare Blitz from Flint's Infernape and he beats Paul's Electivire with this move.
    I agree that Tobias battle was rushed because BW series had to start.Ash still did a good job.He was the only trainer was able to beat Darkrai in Sinnoh.Even finalist wasn't able to beat Darkrai, but Ash beat two legendaries.
    I thought Ash will get stronger Pokemons in Unova, but he has only cute pokemons right now except Krokodile.Writers give all powerful pokemons to Kotetsu instead of Ash.
    I think Sinnoh League was a lot better than Unova League.

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    Quote Originally Posted by p96822 View Post
    Ash didn't look good in Sinnoh because some of the Pokemon he used looked weaker then they were in their seasons. Ash's Sinnoh team also got this bad treatment after a while. Buzuel lossing agianst Mr. Mime, Flint's Infernape, Kenny's Empleon and Paul's Drapion. Starator getting pushed around by Team Rocket, nearly lossing to Paul's Gastrodon and lossing to Drapion. Torrtera lossing streck after evolving from Grotle. Swellow, Donphan, and Torkoral lossing without a good fight even though they could battle then that in the last series. Infernape, Pikachu and Gilble getting the wins for the sinnoh team. Hercross and Scepitile were the only two Pokemon that shown how powerful they got over the season. And if you guy remember that Ash lost two to six and that is even wrost then what unova did to him. I don'r care if Ash went to the top four, the reason why he went so high is because of a story arc was completed and it was short then the other league because Ash was facing off Paul for three episodes.
    You have to realize their is plot in Pokemon's story. Ash wasn't going to beat Flint's Infernape he was an elite 4 member and the fight was used to spark Volkner fighting spirit.
    Buizel beat Mr. Mime after mastering Ice punch. Buizel lost to Empeleon because Kenny was fighting for Dawn's heart and Ash was practicing a new fighting style.
    Starraptor has more than held its own in many battle. Drapion was a plot device to show Gliscor's improvement because in most of the series Gliscor was the weakest of the Sinnoh squad.
    The hoenn team sans Sceptile getting hosed was to be expected. If Ash was meant to win we would have saw his Kanto team plus Heracross.
    Pikachu and Infernape were the driving forces in Ash and Paul's rivalry just like Electrive was for Paul. Paul wanted vengence on the first battle with Pikachu and Ash wanted to prove his methods to paul.
    Overall I believe that Sinnoh treated Ash well. Much better than Unova and Hoenn (Losing to puss in boots pfffft.)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Hikatoshi26 View Post
    You have to realize their is plot in Pokemon's story. Ash wasn't going to beat Flint's Infernape he was an elite 4 member and the fight was used to spark Volkner fighting spirit.
    Buizel beat Mr. Mime after mastering Ice punch. Buizel lost to Empeleon because Kenny was fighting for Dawn's heart and Ash was practicing a new fighting style.
    Starraptor has more than held its own in many battle. Drapion was a plot device to show Gliscor's improvement because in most of the series Gliscor was the weakest of the Sinnoh squad.
    The hoenn team sans Sceptile getting hosed was to be expected. If Ash was meant to win we would have saw his Kanto team plus Heracross.
    Pikachu and Infernape were the driving forces in Ash and Paul's rivalry just like Electrive was for Paul. Paul wanted vengence on the first battle with Pikachu and Ash wanted to prove his methods to paul.
    Overall I believe that Sinnoh treated Ash well. Much better than Unova and Hoenn (Losing to puss in boots pfffft.)
    Hoenn showed Ash's strength too. Until then, he depended heavily on his reseves for the important wins. Pikachu would have beaten Meowth, but it was tired after taking down Metagross and wasting electricity. And guess what? Tyson went on to beat the rest of the league. That is farrr from bad(at least comparing to Unova)




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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFonz View Post
    Hoenn showed Ash's strength too. Until then, he depended heavily on his reseves for the important wins. Pikachu would have beaten Meowth, but it was tired after taking down Metagross and wasting electricity. And guess what? Tyson went on to beat the rest of the league. That is farrr from bad(at least comparing to Unova)
    Agreed. If anything, Hoenn paved the way for Sinnoh in Ash's growth. And as stated, the Hoenn Pokemon were given a better showing of that strength. While I think his loss in the Unova League could have been done better, like having him lose to the OP Hydreigon instead, it certainly wasn't the worst showing. It only looks that bad because of Sinnoh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hikatoshi26 View Post
    Drapion was a plot device to show Gliscor's improvement because in most of the series Gliscor was the weakest of the Sinnoh squad.

    Yes That Gliscor was a very weak pokemon.He can't even fly.But Ash trained him well after battling Air Master's Scizor.
    Dawn also woke up at the midnight to help Ash's Gliscor.She cares so much about Ash's development.(Thats why she is my favourite female character).And Air Master helped Gliscor mastering Giga Impact.Even Shinji wasn't able to counter Gliscor.Now Gliscor is Ash's one of the powerful pokemons and stronger than Paul's Gliscor.
    Unfortunately I haven't seen any of these in Unova.All I see is Ash lost his skills, Iris calling him child.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFonz View Post
    Hoenn showed Ash's strength too. Until then, he depended heavily on his reseves for the important wins. Pikachu would have beaten Meowth, but it was tired after taking down Metagross and wasting electricity. And guess what? Tyson went on to beat the rest of the league. That is farrr from bad(at least comparing to Unova)
    What you say is very true. I am still bitter Pikachu lost to Puss in boots is all.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Hikatoshi26 View Post
    What you say is very true. I am still bitter Pikachu lost to Puss in boots is all.
    Me too but at least back then, it was to be expected since Pikachu had won against another one of his pokemon before. However, the one in the unova league showed nothing. It was just another tactic to glorify another overrated pokemon we've seen before. I'd rather Virgil's team. Because maybe Slyveon might have been an issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caseydia View Post
    Me too but at least back then, it was to be expected since Pikachu had won against another one of his pokemon before. However, the one in the unova league showed nothing. It was just another tactic to glorify another overrated pokemon we've seen before. I'd rather Virgil's team. Because maybe Slyveon might have been an issue.
    Yeah but then again if Ash fought Virgil alot of people would have expected to see Sylveon. Kinda like how Johto showed us Hoenn pokemon and maybe thats not what they wanted to show. Maybe they wanted to enrage the older fanbase with this sad showing....


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    Quote Originally Posted by Hikatoshi26 View Post
    Yeah but then again if Ash fought Virgil alot of people would have expected to see Sylveon. Kinda like how Johto showed us Hoenn pokemon and maybe thats not what they wanted to show. Maybe they wanted to enrage the older fanbase with this sad showing....
    Its weird yah know? Whats with the sudden care for the older fanbase? Don't get me wrong, I loved the Charizard episode and seeing older Pokemon again but its like they just suddenly care about the ratings, I thought as long as Pokemon sold well they didn't care jack.

    I didn't mind how Ash lost in BW leaue, what annoyed me the most is that they broke the leagues rules, had that kid brought all six of his Pokemon I wouldn't have been so ticked off about that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDragonfangirl View Post
    Its weird yah know? Whats with the sudden care for the older fanbase? Don't get me wrong, I loved the Charizard episode and seeing older Pokemon again but its like they just suddenly care about the ratings, I thought as long as Pokemon sold well they didn't care jack.

    I didn't mind how Ash lost in BW leaue, what annoyed me the most is that they broke the leagues rules, had that kid brought all six of his Pokemon I wouldn't have been so ticked off about that.
    It's not like it would have mattered had watchdog just sat in its ball the whole battle and was never revealed.

  16. #91

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    NOTE: I AM NOT DEFENDING DA, I'M JUST MAKING THE MOST OF WHAT WE'VE BEEN GIVEN.

    Anyway, I feel like i've needed to address this for a while now regarding the importance and episodes of DA!.

    At first, I was incredibly put off by the idea of fillers after fillers with no overall purpose of this arc besides the gang sightseeing and heading to Kanto, but now i've come into a bit of realization.

    While it's no lie the arc is pointless and serves merely as a time holder until X/Y starts, I actually think the writers have planned these episodes to be as entertaining/interesting as possible fillers. At least in my eyes it seems this way. Each episode so far has had unique things about them, regardless of whether the whole episode looks good or not (since a lot of them don't seem great overall, they still have the odd moment/scenes in them which have kept from being unworthy).

    Personally, i've found each of these aspects worthwhile for each episode:

    -DA1 - Beginning of the arc, nice set up and goodbye to Unova. Also at the time I anticipated seeing the Zekrom/Reshiram dream.
    -DA2 - Meowth was seperated yet again with Pikachu and co. I enjoy these kind of episodes, and the small journey between them was nice to see. The episode was quite funny and entertaining as well.
    -DA3 - I was interested in seeing the Cilan and Purrloin interactions those were good, also Ash winning the small tournament was a happy sight.
    -DA4 - An Oshawott episode so of course it was fairly entertaining, the most I wanted to see was an emotional scene with Ash and Oshawott but it wasn't that sad really. Still it was nice to see the flashback of all of his feats before nearly saying goodbye. I was pleased Oshawott got a win here, against it's evolution too.
    -DA5 - Zoroark finally appeared after it's appearance in Movie 13. The whole giant Pokemon thing was cool and I liked the (intentional?) similarity to the Dragonite in mist of EP013 and Island of Giant Pokemon. Ash recognised Zoroark too so that was good.
    -DA6 - Professor Oak returning was great, not to mention capture a Pokemon which was also great. Ash referenced seeing Rotom in Sinnoh so yet again I was pleased. It was cool seeing all of the Ground Pokemon work together.
    -DA7 - This is the first episode i've not enjoyed much. The only good things in my eyes was Snivy and Pignite battling together, because of their previous trainers. And Charizard hiding behind the tree haha.

    ---

    Unaired:

    DA8 - Flashbacks to Ash's Butterfree and the episode genuinely just looks great cause Ash is bonding with another Pokemon.
    DA9 - Ash and Iris are falling out, Cilan is stuck in the middle. The episode just looks very interesting and hopefully emotional.
    DA10 - Jirachi is appearing after it's only appearance in Movie 6. I'm pleased about that and hopefully a reference is made by Ash.
    DA11 - Ash is alone since everybody is transformed by Beheeyem, this just sounds cool and hopefully will be quite a thrill ride.

    So yeah basically, I just felt like expressing my opinions of each episode in DA. I've not been watching them weekly but only when I feel like it and caught up today. I've found them all entertaining to be honest regardless of whether they were important or not. I do wish Ash had a side quest here but he doesn't and there's nothing we can do.
    Last edited by Haunter ゴースト; 7th June 2013 at 4:43 PM.

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    Best Wishes should have only been a 2 year saga. This last year worth of episodes is worthless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    Best Wishes should have only been a 2 year saga. This last year worth of episodes is worthless.
    So you would have rather had no new episodes for a year?
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    I don't understand why the writers haven't converted the show into a fully plot driven saga where each episode leads into the other. VERY similar to the Episode N arc. All of the fillers make the Pokemon Anime feel half wasted.

    The Pokemon Anime has story, it's the fact that the writers don't seem to utilize it properly. They only add the plot when it's neccessery (Gyms, League, Tournament, Two-Parters etc.). I think if they tried to add a little more plot instead of making standalone episodes with no relevence to the story, it would be much more beneficial. The Pokemon Anime would actual feel more developed as a whole.

    Speaking of development, if the writers actually put some more development into the characters and Pokemon, they wouldn't feel as empty either. A lot of the time, the characters feel like they are genuinely robots serving their purpose of existing in an episode etc.

    I think what i'm getting at is that the Pokemon Anime could be 10x better, it could be made into something that really does become an epic anime. The BW2 animation short is a rough kind of idea of how it could be. I believe it could be even better than that to be fair, especially if it was fully plot driven.

    Regardless of everything i'm saying, the Pokemon Anime today may have it's flaws, but there has always been this charm to it which keeps it entertaining and fun. Although maybe the only reason I watch it is because I like the Pokemon franchise so much and THIS particular anime is the only Pokemon Anime meaning I feel obliged to watch it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    I actually think the writers have planned these episodes to be as entertaining/interesting as possible fillers.
    The year-long gap between Ash's last two Sinnoh badges was less boring and annoying than this, and we had to put up with some awful Contests and Idiot Rockets in every episode.

    The only purpose of this arc is desperate pandering after the writers decided to cave to the whiners who couldn't handle any changes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    I don't understand why the writers haven't converted the show into a fully plot driven saga where each episode leads into the other. VERY similar to the Episode N arc. All of the fillers make the Pokemon Anime feel half wasted.
    Seriously. How do you follow Episode N, one of the most plot-driven things the anime's ever done, with DA!, which is the polar opposite!? It's insane!

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great Butler View Post
    The year-long gap between Ash's last two Sinnoh badges was less boring and annoying than this, and we had to put up with some awful Contests and Idiot Rockets in every episode.
    For what we've been given, the fillers are entertaining filler episodes. Of course it's down to opinion, if you enjoyed the DP gap more then fair enough.

    This isn't about what they should have done or haven't done. I'm talking simply about what has happened and what we've been given.

    The only purpose of this arc is desperate pandering after the writers decided to cave to the whiners who couldn't handle any changes.
    It definetly could have been handled better.

    We know it's pointless and serving time until X/Y begins, if you read the rest of my post you'll know I wish they had incorporated a plot, but they didn't and that's that.

    What we've been given is a bunch of fillers and we have to make do with it. I'm just saying that the fillers in this arc are entertaining for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    Seriously. How do you follow Episode N, one of the most plot-driven things the anime's ever done, with DA!, which is the polar opposite!? It's insane!
    I agree with this definetly, the worst part is DA could have been constructed in the exact same fashion had they given a subplot too. It was the perfect opportunity to give Ash the victory and redemption he so long needed in this saga, but it looks like the writers are set on keeping him average while every other character gets some form of glory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    Seriously. How do you follow Episode N, one of the most plot-driven things the anime's ever done, with DA!, which is the polar opposite!? It's insane!
    The laziness is especially blatant when you realize that if all of Team Rocket's "random" plots were actually connected and building to a finale in Kanto, literally nothing else even would have to be changed.

    At this point I'm beginning to fear all we'll get in Kanto is six to eight more fillers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great Butler View Post
    The laziness is especially blatant when you realize that if all of Team Rocket's "random" plots were actually connected and building to a finale in Kanto, literally nothing else even would have to be changed.

    At this point I'm beginning to fear all we'll get in Kanto is six to eight more fillers.
    That is at the most. I could see like only two episodes. One with a reunion with old pokemon, and maybe misty or gary, or brock. And then the last episode as the transition to kalos.
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    The really should've planned more ahead. Either they should've had a slower pace and a longer league, which would've been totally fine with me. They could've done a World Tournament Arc in between with old Gym Leaders returning for example. This way the rivalries with Trip, Burgundy, Bianca, Georgia, Cameron, Stephan and maybe even Virgil could've been more developed. And they could've gotten better closure. A longer league with a 6 vs. 6 with Trip or Bianca would've been nice imo.

    Or they could've made Episode N longer, where Ash had to track down all Seven Sages and defeat them. Kinda like Gym Badges but instead of a badge they would tell you where the next sage is and the last one tells you were Ghetsis is. Shadow Triad could be involved in this as well.

    Or after Episode N, they could have a league similar to the Orange Island with in the end a big tournament in which Ash can use it's reserves. Or maybe the White Treehollow/Black Tower and Benga for a few episodes.

    Anyway my point is, they should've gave Ash a goal. And not let him just take a major detour home. I mean Heck they even could've taken the Sinnoh Battle Frontier and put it in the DA archipelago for Ash to challenge them. I mean they put the Hoenn Battle frontier in Kanto after all. Lots of options but instead they chose a cruise. Not really my style tbh. I'm still hoping for a tournament and a lab episode though! That could redeem DA.
    Last edited by FlyAsADunsparce; 8th June 2013 at 12:42 AM.

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