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Thread: Treatment of Ash & Others in Best Wishes, Purpose of Da! Discussion

  1. #176
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    I think the Pokémon World Tournament would have been a great saga to have before Kalos but maybe TPTB felt that people were burned out from all the tournaments and wanted to return Pokémon to more of an adventure anime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemaniac24 View Post
    I think the Pokémon World Tournament would have been a great saga to have before Kalos but maybe TPTB felt that people were burned out from all the tournaments and wanted to return Pokémon to more of an adventure anime.
    That sounds very familiar for some reason.....like what happened to another really big anime that used to be on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucario At Service View Post
    Bring Up a old point, but i re-watched the 3rd DA! episode, and i can't sake the feeling that Ash actually won a thrown-away tournament like Marine Cup.

    What i meant is the person who was in the final (Tide), his main objective was to cause the electrical problem during the time of the final match so his pokemon could steal. In that sense, we can easily assume that he actually didn't care about winning the tournament as long as his objective was complete. That means it is also possible that once he completed his objective, he just let Ash win the Marine Cup, since i can't think of a thief who would want to fight and win a tournament when he had achieved his main objective (well that's unless the thief's characteristics was like Ash's), this way he can easily avoid peoples attention (as winning a tournament may cause people to come up to him to congratulate him, which could in-turn cause people accidentally finding out about his disguise).

    So, we can in a way say that Ash's only tournament win during the BW saga was actually a thrown-away match.

    Note: If this point had been discussed before then feel free to ignore it.
    Nope, you just found another angle to bash Ash and Best Wishes. Can't get more deeper than this, can we :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracoflare View Post
    Nope, you just found another angle to bash Ash and Best Wishes. Can't get more deeper than this, can we :P
    People have the right to express their opinions, whether they're positive or negative (as long as they don't bash).

    About my opinion of DA!... I don't care much. I treat it as a simple filler arc and as such I don't have huge expectations. And for that reason I don't even complain (much).
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  5. #180
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    I thought the writers did pretty well from what they were given. I didn't expect it to be like AG or DP due to the length and most evolutions take place at the 4th year from what I noticed. So in away the writers did a better with Ash's team in BW than with the OS teams Kanto/Johto.

    Anyway, the only thing I didn't really enjoy the showcasing of each Pokemon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucario At Service View Post
    Bring Up a old point, but i re-watched the 3rd DA! episode, and i can't sake the feeling that Ash actually won a thrown-away tournament like Marine Cup.

    What i meant is the person who was in the final (Tide), his main objective was to cause the electrical problem during the time of the final match so his pokemon could steal. In that sense, we can easily assume that he actually didn't care about winning the tournament as long as his objective was complete. That means it is also possible that once he completed his objective, he just let Ash win the Marine Cup, since i can't think of a thief who would want to fight and win a tournament when he had achieved his main objective (well that's unless the thief's characteristics was like Ash's), this way he can easily avoid peoples attention (as winning a tournament may cause people to come up to him to congratulate him, which could in-turn cause people accidentally finding out about his disguise).

    So, we can in a way say that Ash's only tournament win during the BW saga was actually a thrown-away match.

    Note: If this point had been discussed before then feel free to ignore it.
    I thought about this, but I decided not to bring it up since a lot of people wanted to see Ash win a tournament - no matter how small - and it seemed inappropriate to ruin their fun. But when you explain it like that, it really does seem like Ash only won on a technicality. I mean the thief guy obviously didn't care about the tournament and only used it as a cover for his heist scheme, and Ash just conveniently happened to be his opponent and benefited from the thief's lack of interest in the tournament.

    I hate technicalities though. The fact that Ash and Oshawott were disqualified because of one at the Scalchop tournament thing still has me seething.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ash&Pikachu-Fan View Post
    I thought the writers did pretty well from what they were given. I didn't expect it to be like AG or DP due to the length and most evolutions take place at the 4th year from what I noticed. So in away the writers did a better with Ash's team in BW than with the OS teams Kanto/Johto.

    Anyway, the only thing I didn't really enjoy the showcasing of each Pokemon.
    No, they didn't do pretty well. They did pretty well till BW Season 1. That's it. The rushed saga backfired for them. Then Season 2 began. Speculations rose like wildfire. We all expected a grand tournament where Marlon and Drayden appear. (The ever desperate Misty return party expected her to come back too.) The tournament ended up into a 3 episode matter. This isn't definitely how a Pokemon World Tournament Junior Cup should be. People moved on. Then they brought the League.

    The first episode of the league was splendid. The rival battles like Zebstrike versus Braviary, Vaporeon versus Crustle and even Emboar versus Watchog was surprisingly good. People screamed. Yes, we are getting a wonderful League. Now we know why the Junior Cup sucked. And then the second episode came. They began rushing again. They rushed and rushed out of the league (with a small filler as their pitstop...I liked that filler more than the League). We were all desperate in the end. The title Pikachu versus Lucario came. We thought, hey maybe Pikachu versus Lucario will end in five minutes then we will have Ash versus Virgil (those who thought this were the ones who clung to hope till the end. The rest already threw their hands up.). Nope.

    Then N came walking down the stairs. I am damn sure everyone watched that trailer ten times. Then the poster came. Charizard ZOMG! EPIC! There were fangasms throughout the world. They all screamed "Now we know why they rushed through the League and Junior Cup. Because they will end Gen 5 with a bad-*** Reshiram versus Charizard." (Some even predicted Charizard will win with its superb training a.k.a getting thrown around by Charla and her big boys.) I bet some of you must have even called your friends who gave up on Pokemon and told how awesome it has become. (I did at least. My friend laughed on my face afterwards.)

    Episode N...well it was good to say the least. It wasn't so bad. A few say "Not worth rushing the League." A few say "Not bad. It's okay if they rushed the league, they at least did this okay." (And the Charizard fans....well let's forget them for now.) And then Da! came!

    Ever since episode one, everyone has been hitting their heads against the computers. Why? Why did they rush everything for this?

    So, I think everyone will echo "NO" to your statement.

    Sorry for going on a rant. I just wanted to let it out

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    The weird thing and problem about them rushing it is that it makes no sense in theory. If they knew they would have even less time than usual, or just planned the anime as usual, you would think if anything they would have had to cram too much stuff in at the end for not having enough time. Who would have thought that in by far the shortest saga, assuming you put OS as both kanto and johto as whole, that they would have 30+ episodes of filler at the end with just a waiting game until xy?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charmed View Post
    I thought about this, but I decided not to bring it up since a lot of people wanted to see Ash win a tournament - no matter how small - and it seemed inappropriate to ruin their fun. But when you explain it like that, it really does seem like Ash only won on a technicality. I mean the thief guy obviously didn't care about the tournament and only used it as a cover for his heist scheme, and Ash just conveniently happened to be his opponent and benefited from the thief's lack of interest in the tournament.

    I hate technicalities though. The fact that Ash and Oshawott were disqualified because of one at the Scalchop tournament thing still has me seething.
    Mijumaru didn't deserve to KO Caesar in the first place so it's all fair and good. And I whole heatedly agree with the guy throwing the match on purpose. Although I only saw the pics, pikachu didn't deserve all those wins.
    Last edited by LizardonX; 22nd June 2013 at 12:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yuoke View Post
    The weird thing and problem about them rushing it is that it makes no sense in theory. If they knew they would have even less time than usual, or just planned the anime as usual, you would think if anything they would have had to cram too much stuff in at the end for not having enough time. Who would have thought that in by far the shortest saga, assuming you put OS as both kanto and johto as whole, that they would have 30+ episodes of filler at the end with just a waiting game until xy?
    What I don't get is why didn't they turn the World Tournament into the filler arc and do it like the Battle Frontier season?

    I cannot comprehend this. Both Orange Islands and Battle Frontier had competitions for Ash and his Pokemon team evolved and changed during those sagas. In this filler arc we have absolutely nothing. Not even Iris or Cilan are going through much development.

    Battle Frontier was just a filler arc, yet both Ash and May got so many changes and developments to their characters and teams. The events that happened in BF were pretty much just as important as what happened in Hoenn, which is why it didn't feel pointless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    What I don't get is why didn't they turn the World Tournament into the filler arc and do it like the Battle Frontier season?

    I cannot comprehend this. Both Orange Islands and Battle Frontier had competitions for Ash and his Pokemon team evolved and changed during those sagas. In this filler arc we have absolutely nothing. Not even Iris or Cilan are going through much development.

    Battle Frontier was just a filler arc, yet both Ash and May got so many changes and developments to their characters and teams. The events that happened in BF were pretty much just as important as what happened in Hoenn, which is why it didn't feel pointless.
    Well assuming that they would also cut episode N for the theoretical arc, then I guess they still would think 30 episodes wouldn't be enough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by yuoke View Post
    Well assuming that they would also cut episode N for the theoretical arc, then I guess they still would think 30 episodes wouldn't be enough.
    They did the Junior cup in three episodes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracoflare View Post
    They did the Junior cup in three episodes.
    Yea, And look how condensed and short it was overall. Battle frontier was enough to fill an entire saga because of the amount of time left until sinnoh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by yuoke View Post
    Yea, And look how condensed and short it was overall. Battle frontier was enough to fill an entire saga because of the amount of time left until sinnoh.
    Battle frontier involves travelling throughout Kanto and earn 7 symbols along with May's 5 ribbons. Of course it needs a American season length. But the world tournament is more like a glorified league. It shouldn't take more than 20 episodes if they fill every episode with a battle. I don't think the anime department is ready to make a huge tournament which lasts for 30 episodes. Heck, if I were incharge of the anime the league would run for 15 episodes.

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  15. #190
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    Bar Rotom VS Dr. Okido! and Satoshi and Iris's Severed Relationship!? The Path of Separation!!, Da! seems like a waste of time. Yes, you could argue the Butterfree episode, but all it did was Ash's Butterfree appearing in a flashback, and Misty and Brock didn't even appear in that flashback. The next episode that could be interesting would be Pansy Appears! Erikiteru and Gōgōto!!, since it promotes Gen 6.

    This arc does have a pretty good opening song, though, so it's not entirely dissapointing.

    EDIT: I also hate why did Team Rocket have to return to their goofy personality. IMO they should behave like in Episode N, which means they should be focusing on capturing Pikachu and any other Pokemon they can, but still retaining competence.
    Last edited by UbersSuck20; 23rd June 2013 at 4:59 PM.

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    with the Star of Pokemon XY confirmed for Oct. 17th I calculated that if he have no breaks till the end DA will last for 24 episodes.

    We still have no air dates for the TR and Emonga episode just like we don't know when Clair will appear. But both could air previous to the Noivern episode.

    I'm still hoping for a Tournament where Ash's Unova pokemon can shine [bright like diamond]. Maybe Clair will conduct one.
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    We need Gary to appear in BW. I mean this series is heaven for old references (although the writers always manage to screw them up somehow)
    I could see him appearing by end of the season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightstar1994 View Post
    We need Gary to appear in BW. I mean this series is heaven for old references (although the writers always manage to screw them up somehow)
    I could see him appearing by end of the season.
    It would be the first saga for him not to appear at all, so it would be surprising. Still a chance when they get back to pallet town though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KibaLG8 View Post
    I'm a bit rusty since I haven't made a thread in ages... So we've had 5 tournaments in total in Best Wishes, 4 being major:

    Don Battle: Top 2 of 16

    Donamite: Top 4 of 16

    Junior Cup: Top 2 of 16

    Unova League: Top 8 of 128

    Marine Cup: Winner

    Anybody else disappointed that they bothered to introduce such a pointless tournament that only acted as a time consumer in the most recent episode, which they make Ash win?

    They didn't let him win any of the tournaments that was the major focus & then they introduce a 5 minute tournament that Ash wins. From what I can gather in this series, if its something minor, Ash gets to win. Have they just given up or something?

    And now its making me wonder about the entire series in general as well. We have an episode about Crocanaw, the Eevee Episode, we've had a Sweet Honey Episode, then this Detective Cilan Episode, then the Jirachi Episode & Oak Episode which don't seem that bad, same with the Zoroark Episode. Then Butterfree, Ash VS Iris, & Clair. Were not sure when exactly this saga is ending but we have most episodes revealed until July and a tournament doesn't even seem possible until after the Genosect Movie airs, which isn't until after July 14. And since they usually tend to show pictures/summaries/etc of upcoming episodes like 2-3 months in advance, then the Clair Episode will most likely occur in July, and 2 breaks are likely yet again in July, making the possibility of a tournament less likely.

    We have two rivals who's stories haven't concluded, yet the ending implies we won't see them again. If they wanted to fill in the gap why not add some better important events instead of showing things that don't add anything new to the characters. Then Iris hasn't done anything in a long time, with Clair's appearance being the only thing. Cilan may have an episode dedicated to him that's NOT filler. There is just so much things they can do but instead they have episodes that everyone will just forget. And to top it all off there isn't a main goal for Ash, battle-wise. I just have no clue what they are doing at this point.
    Those throwawy tournaments were for other characters to win and build rep. All of Da! is filler, so there's n honest need to worry bout it.
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    Did the writing team have some kind of major overhaul for Best Wishes? Or did they just decide to completely stop caring after D/P?

    BW has felt so amateur, even compared to the other seasons. It's like they saw all the praise DP got and said "Okay, now let's do the complete opposite of that."

    I wish I was more familiar with anime writing, because it really blows my mind how incompetent this has been. Being a show for kids isn't any excuse, either. And I get that it's just made to advertise the franchise, but that doesn't mean the people working on the show (I know I keep calling out the writers specifically, but I'm more talking about the whole team behind this - I know the writers are kind of forced into writing what the higher-ups want so they can sell a product) shouldn't have some kind of passion about what they're working on. Are they underpaid or overworked or something? Pissed about lack of creative freedom?
    Last edited by blowsave; 1st July 2013 at 12:03 AM.

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    Feels like the writers took a complete break from writing anything even remotely interesting for the remainder of this series. Compared to previous years, I think this is the worst filler arc we've received so far. I agree with those who noted the inclusion of the PWT would have been a good way to goo in order to bridge the gap between BW2 and XY.

    Maybe the writers want to convey a type of "summer vacation" vibe with DA, since kinds in Japan get their summer break starting in July (?)

    I'm just not satisfied that Charizard was brought back for no real reason except for nostalgia..

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    Quote Originally Posted by sCiZoR_2006 View Post
    I'm just not satisfied that Charizard was brought back for no real reason except for nostalgia..
    I'm glad you feel that way because I think that's exactly why they brought him here. Charizard hasn't been really doing anything but taking up space in Ash's party when one of his other Unova pokemon could have been doing that. Plus he has Pignite, so what was the point instead of keeping some idiots quiet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by blowsave View Post
    Did the writing team have some kind of major overhaul for Best Wishes? Or did they just decide to completely stop caring after D/P?

    BW has felt so amateur, even compared to the other seasons. It's like they saw all the praise DP got and said "Okay, now let's do the complete opposite of that."

    I wish I was more familiar with anime writing, because it really blows my mind how incompetent this has been. Being a show for kids isn't any excuse, either. And I get that it's just made to advertise the franchise, but that doesn't mean the people working on the show (I know I keep calling out the writers specifically, but I'm more talking about the whole team behind this - I know the writers are kind of forced into writing what the higher-ups want so they can sell a product) shouldn't have some kind of passion about what they're working on. Are they underpaid or overworked or something? Pissed about lack of creative freedom?
    No there isn't any overhaul the writers are the same. I'm guessing after they saw how much money piplup brought in from plush sales they realized the anime needed a new direction.

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    Da is basically the writers way to say FU to any potential way to give better closure to the BW series and is just going with the easier way with showing Cute Pokemon get caught into in odd situations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracoflare View Post
    No, they didn't do pretty well. They did pretty well till BW Season 1. That's it. The rushed saga backfired for them. Then Season 2 began. Speculations rose like wildfire. We all expected a grand tournament where Marlon and Drayden appear. (The ever desperate Misty return party expected her to come back too.) The tournament ended up into a 3 episode matter. This isn't definitely how a Pokemon World Tournament Junior Cup should be. People moved on. Then they brought the League.

    The first episode of the league was splendid. The rival battles like Zebstrike versus Braviary, Vaporeon versus Crustle and even Emboar versus Watchog was surprisingly good. People screamed. Yes, we are getting a wonderful League. Now we know why the Junior Cup sucked. And then the second episode came. They began rushing again. They rushed and rushed out of the league (with a small filler as their pitstop...I liked that filler more than the League). We were all desperate in the end. The title Pikachu versus Lucario came. We thought, hey maybe Pikachu versus Lucario will end in five minutes then we will have Ash versus Virgil (those who thought this were the ones who clung to hope till the end. The rest already threw their hands up.). Nope.

    Then N came walking down the stairs. I am damn sure everyone watched that trailer ten times. Then the poster came. Charizard ZOMG! EPIC! There were fangasms throughout the world. They all screamed "Now we know why they rushed through the League and Junior Cup. Because they will end Gen 5 with a bad-*** Reshiram versus Charizard." (Some even predicted Charizard will win with its superb training a.k.a getting thrown around by Charla and her big boys.) I bet some of you must have even called your friends who gave up on Pokemon and told how awesome it has become. (I did at least. My friend laughed on my face afterwards.)

    Episode N...well it was good to say the least. It wasn't so bad. A few say "Not worth rushing the League." A few say "Not bad. It's okay if they rushed the league, they at least did this okay." (And the Charizard fans....well let's forget them for now.) And then Da! came!

    Ever since episode one, everyone has been hitting their heads against the computers. Why? Why did they rush everything for this?

    So, I think everyone will echo "NO" to your statement.

    Sorry for going on a rant. I just wanted to let it out
    This post...is...THE best description of Best Wishes possible. Seriously, this needs to be framed and hung in a museum so future Pokémon Masters know where the anime went downhill. This actually made me feel better from reading your rant




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