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Thread: Treatment of Ash & Others in Best Wishes, Purpose of Da! Discussion

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    Quote Originally Posted by Locormus View Post
    Marine Cup wasn't hyped at all. :P Iris was present, she was in the Top16, Cilan was excused at the time.
    No it wasn't hyped and Iris's score in this made no sense since her Axew in the first Don tournament got pass Luke's God Psy robot with luck yet he couldn't manage to get something higher than that? Yet, Cilan didn't really need to be in it. He needed to be doing other things so I understand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosMage View Post
    Every tournament loss has a decent explanation. Iris winning the Club Battle was linked to the recent breakthrough with Excadrill, her powerhouse who had a massive advantage over Pikachu. Besides, it's not like Iris isn't one of the main characters and the set of wings never came into play much. Snivy and Palpitoad each took out a major recurring rival and Cilan and Iris had the privilege of defeating Trip and Stephan, so I don't see the problem with this one. It's not like Iris beat Ash with Axew, she used her strongest pokemon who she's been with for a long time.

    In the Clubsplosion, the whole point was to showcase Sawk and Throh, plus a few other fighting-types they'd not featured yet (like Conkeldurr and Emboar) and develop Scraggy a little. Scraggy got some believeable victories against Simisage and Simipour but that tournament could only ever end one way, with Sawk defeating Throh against all odds. Ash, Iris and Cilan all had decent battles in the tournament but this one just wasn't for them or their pokemon to shine in.

    As for the Junior Cup, which I agree was majorly rushed, I believe that also ended exactly as it should dramatically. Trip idolised Alder, as had been set up a long time before, and wanted to battle him. We also had Iris' Dragonite, Dawn's return, Trip's newly-evolved Serperior, Georgia and Burgundy being back... that's a lot going on. Ash had the privilege of an evolution and victory for Krookodile against Iris' seemingly unstoppable Dragonite, but Trip was the one who needed that battle against Alder more than Ash. The battle was barely a couple of minutes long, because as with all champion challenges on the show Trip didn't stand a chance. They also needed to build up Serperior for the league, as presumably they'd decided by that point that Trip would only battle Ash with Serperior there.

    And then there's the League. Ash doesn't win Leagues. We know this. It was a disappointing League, but hardly a shocking one. Ash did well against two established rivals and a couple of off-screen guys. The writers dropped the ball with the Cameron battle, but the rest of the league was competent enough considering how short they had to make it.

    I definitely want another major challenge for Ash at the end of all of this Da nonsense, but I won't complain about Ash not winning tournaments when the writers had perfectly good reasons for Iris, Stephan and Trip to win their tournaments and didn't just decide at random, and Ash performed respectably in all three. And the league... come on, stop complaining about Ash not winning leagues.
    Very well said. I also like to add that we all know Ash would have got to the top 2 if he used his old pokemon. Having ash regress a league spot showed realism, which shocks me for the pokemon series, only because we all imagined he would measure up to his prior league position, or surpass it.

    In terms of these tournaments, he tended to be the best overall competitor, since he made it to the end in every single one, except for the fighting one, which is obvious since he only used Scraggy. Ash went into that tournament for Scraggy training, not so much to think he would win that one.

    While I wish there was some sort of world cup, where we can see all these past friends and rivals compete in some giant world tourney, I think they won't be doing this until Ash or the series ends. I mean the very end of Da! could bring some sort of weird kanto cup where some of the characters show up?

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    You could say that Ash is getting the same kind of treatment as he usually does, but this still leaves an odd taste in the mouth.

    He may have lost before, time and again, but I can honestly say that (for gen 3 & 4 at least) there was something to look back at and smile. Winning something like the Battle Frontier with his Pokemon from each region despite loosing the league, that amazing clash with Paul in Sinnoh, or putting a dent in Tobias when no one else could. I'd like for him to win, but it's also nice if he can lose and walk away like a champ.

    This region though...I can't say I feel the same so far. No championships in the minor tourneys, he lost the league to a borderline scrub, and his rivalry with Trip was stale.

    At the same time, it is great that he can come back home with that team of his. I love his Unova party.
    Last edited by Emperor Empoleon; 13th May 2013 at 4:22 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrizza88 View Post
    Very well said. I also like to add that we all know Ash would have got to the top 2 if he used his old pokemon. Having ash regress a league spot showed realism, which shocks me for the pokemon series, only because we all imagined he would measure up to his prior league position, or surpass it.

    In terms of these tournaments, he tended to be the best overall competitor, since he made it to the end in every single one, except for the fighting one, which is obvious since he only used Scraggy. Ash went into that tournament for Scraggy training, not so much to think he would win that one.

    While I wish there was some sort of world cup, where we can see all these past friends and rivals compete in some giant world tourney, I think they won't be doing this until Ash or the series ends. I mean the very end of Da! could bring some sort of weird kanto cup where some of the characters show up?
    If Ash used his best Pokémon and was in his prime, he'd have beaten the Unova League. I don't understand how Ash regressing(I'm talking about his skill and training methods) for an entire series is realism. That's more pessimistic

    On a side note, how does one truely know what is realism? One person or group does not know all




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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosMage View Post
    Every tournament loss has a decent explanation. Iris winning the Club Battle was linked to the recent breakthrough with Excadrill, her powerhouse who had a massive advantage over Pikachu. Besides, it's not like Iris isn't one of the main characters and the set of wings never came into play much. Snivy and Palpitoad each took out a major recurring rival and Cilan and Iris had the privilege of defeating Trip and Stephan, so I don't see the problem with this one. It's not like Iris beat Ash with Axew, she used her strongest pokemon who she's been with for a long time.

    In the Clubsplosion, the whole point was to showcase Sawk and Throh, plus a few other fighting-types they'd not featured yet (like Conkeldurr and Emboar) and develop Scraggy a little. Scraggy got some believeable victories against Simisage and Simipour but that tournament could only ever end one way, with Sawk defeating Throh against all odds. Ash, Iris and Cilan all had decent battles in the tournament but this one just wasn't for them or their pokemon to shine in.

    As for the Junior Cup, which I agree was majorly rushed, I believe that also ended exactly as it should dramatically. Trip idolised Alder, as had been set up a long time before, and wanted to battle him. We also had Iris' Dragonite, Dawn's return, Trip's newly-evolved Serperior, Georgia and Burgundy being back... that's a lot going on. Ash had the privilege of an evolution and victory for Krookodile against Iris' seemingly unstoppable Dragonite, but Trip was the one who needed that battle against Alder more than Ash. The battle was barely a couple of minutes long, because as with all champion challenges on the show Trip didn't stand a chance. They also needed to build up Serperior for the league, as presumably they'd decided by that point that Trip would only battle Ash with Serperior there.

    And then there's the League. Ash doesn't win Leagues. We know this. It was a disappointing League, but hardly a shocking one. Ash did well against two established rivals and a couple of off-screen guys. The writers dropped the ball with the Cameron battle, but the rest of the league was competent enough considering how short they had to make it.

    I definitely want another major challenge for Ash at the end of all of this Da nonsense, but I won't complain about Ash not winning tournaments when the writers had perfectly good reasons for Iris, Stephan and Trip to win their tournaments and didn't just decide at random, and Ash performed respectably in all three. And the league... come on, stop complaining about Ash not winning leagues.
    I'd agree with every bit of this post except for the Ash part. People didn't complain that Ash couldn't win the league. They simply felt bad he lost to Kotetsu.

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    I miss the days when I actually got excited for Ash's character. Hoenn and Sinnoh gave you the illusion that Ash was improving and getting better at what he was doing. He still lost the leagues but he had his accomplishments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    I miss the days when I actually got excited for Ash's character. Hoenn and Sinnoh gave you the illusion that Ash was improving and getting better at what he was doing. He still lost the leagues but he had his accomplishments.
    Maybe this move will end up better for the show though. For example, if you look at his wins in BF and DP, how much more growth could we possibly see out of him without him actually winning a League? I mean if they didn't regress him in BW, he probably would still be at DP level and never get better because how do you top DP/BF level without him actually winning a League? By doing what they did with Ash in BW, we could see him grow all over again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    I miss the days when I actually got excited for Ash's character. Hoenn and Sinnoh gave you the illusion that Ash was improving and getting better at what he was doing. He still lost the leagues but he had his accomplishments.
    Yeah, I share this sentiment. At least he seemed that he was going somewhere in both skills and maturity and becoming better and better. I felt like he was actually growing.

    Now, I can't see this growth anymore. Everything done to him in BW seems so messed up, so backward. He may have come quite far in the tournaments and at the League (after all, runner up/Top 4/runner up/Top 8 aren't completely bad rankings), but after seeing how he has turned into a shadow of his former self, I couldn't really cheer for him. And that's sad.
    Last edited by Cresselia92; 13th May 2013 at 8:16 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    Yeah, I share this sentiment. At least he seemed that he was going somewhere in both skills and maturity and becoming better and better. I felt like he was actually growing.

    Now, I can't see this growth anymore. Everything done to him in BW seems so messed up, so backward. He may have come far in the tournaments and at the League. After all, runner up/Top 4/runner up/Top 8 aren't completely bad rankings. But after seeing how he has turned into a shadow of his former self, I couldn't really cheer for him. And that's sad.
    But if the show goes on for 10 more generations, wouldn't it get boring seeing him always get Top 4 or 2 until the end of the series which God knows when that will be? At least by resetting the character every so often, he gets to go through a growth arc again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemaniac24 View Post
    But if the show goes on for 10 more generations, wouldn't it get boring seeing him always get Top 4 or 2 until the end of the series which God knows when that will be? At least by resetting the character every so often, he gets to go through a growth arc again.
    Same could be said about seeing him resetting and growing and resetting and growing ad libitum. It's better to just make him improve until he wins a League and later move on another main character. It's better to just end his story and restart anew.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    Same could be said about seeing him resetting and growing and resetting and growing ad libitum. It's better to just make him improve until he wins a League and later move on another main character. It's better to just end his story and restart anew.
    Either way, it would get repetitive. I mean how much more could they have made him grow from Sinnoh? I mean even if say they made him get 2nd in the Unova League, how much more of an improvement is that over the Sinnoh League where he might as well have gotten 2nd since it was clear Tobias was the only stronger trainer than him in that League. Ideally, his story would have ended in Sinnoh and they would have moved onto a new main character. I feel like Ash was at his pinnacle as a trainer in DP and probably should have won the League there. Unless the writers decide that they don't have to end the show if Ash wins the League, we are going to be stuck with constantly resetting him every few generations OR him constantly coming in the Top 4/Top 2 and losing the League. They need to make him win a League. They don't need to end the show after he wins a League.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemaniac24 View Post
    Either way, it would get repetitive. I mean how much more could they have made him grow from Sinnoh? I mean even if say they made him get 2nd in the Unova League, how much more of an improvement is that over the Sinnoh League where he might as well have gotten 2nd since it was clear Tobias was the only stronger trainer than him in that League. Ideally, his story would have ended in Sinnoh and they would have moved onto a new main character. I feel like Ash was at his pinnacle as a trainer in DP and probably should have won the League there. Unless the writers decide that they don't have to end the show if Ash wins the League, we are going to be stuck with constantly resetting him every few generations OR him constantly coming in the Top 4/Top 2 and losing the League. They need to make him win a League. They don't need to end the show after he wins a League.
    And I agree with all of that. However, I was talking about the fact that he would become boring if he continued going Top 4 or Top 2 forever, so I gave an idea of how to not make him too stale: make him reach the Top 2 or make him win a League and later, if they really don't want to get rid of Ash after he wins a League, they can give him a background role. He could be the inspiration of the new main character, become his mentor or a recurring character. There are various ways to keep Ash interesting while giving him a realistic progress. It's all a matter of daring to go further with him and not freezing him in time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    And I agree with all of that. However, I was talking about the fact that he would become boring if he continued going Top 4 or Top 2 forever, so I gave an idea of how to not make him too stale: make him reach the Top 2 or make him win a League and later, if they really don't want to get rid of Ash after he won a League, they can give him a background role. He could be the inspiration of the new main character, become his mentor or a recurring character. There are various ways to keep Ash interesting while giving him a realistic progress. It's all a matter of daring to go further with him and not freezing him in time.
    They need to decide on something and not give up on characters that they were actually starting to give development to like they did with TRio. I mean what they did with TRio in DA! shows the writers really don't care about them as characters at all anymore and they are reduced to plot devices again. I hope they still care about Ash.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemaniac24 View Post
    They need to decide on something and not give up on characters that they were actually starting to give development to like they did with TRio. I mean what they did with TRio in DA! shows the writers really don't care about them as characters at all anymore and they are reduced to plot devices again. I hope they still care about Ash.
    I think they care about him at least a bit, otherwise he would have ended up Top 128/64 at the League. XD

    However yeah. They have to give progress to all characters and not reduce them to cheap ways to keep the show going. After all, it's an anime. It should have a progressive story and constant development. Other shonen anime have actual progress. Why Pokémon doesn't?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemaniac24 View Post
    I hope they still care about Ash.
    They care enough to keep him around for a marketing tool, that's probably about it. But as far as advancing him from where he was in AG/DP, no.

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    Ash didn't get a drop of character development the entire saga and basically is stagnant now. He didn't become any better of a trainer at all, And basically was just there to be the main character to have a vague main plot point for.
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    My speculation is that the reason they have DA! is because of a return to how previous seasons done things (such as Team Rocket). But even with that in mind, BW has been lagging behind quite a bit in terms of viewer percentage rankings in Japan compared to other Pokemon series. And in terms of that, Pokemon is in a steady decline. They really mishandled things this time, since it's the lowest it has ever been.
    Last edited by karczx; 13th May 2013 at 3:28 PM.

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    Hopefully they realize the lag in ratings in that case and really get a grip in the XY anime. I'm not really too big on major character development in Pokemon, all I wanna see is battles to be handled in AG/DP style and Ash show more skill and Pokemon to get better screen time. Not asking for much here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by karczx View Post
    My speculation is that the reason they have DA! is because of a return to how previous seasons done things (such as Team Rocket). But even with that in mind, BW has been lagging behind quite a bit in terms of viewer percentage rankings in Japan compared to other Pokemon series. And in terms of that, Pokemon is in a steady decline. They really mishandled things this time, since it's the lowest it has ever been.
    Still top 10. They don't have to do anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gohan5 View Post
    This. It's not as if Ash was thrown under a bus, everything happened for a reason. Whether you agree or not is debatable. Regardless, why does it matter so much? I'm actually grateful Ash doesn't haven any more useless trophies and crap cluttering up his already cluttered room.
    I agree that everything the writers did happened for a reason.

    Now my question is, couldn't the writers have made a reason so that Ash would have atleast won a big scale tournament in Unova. If the writers have wanted, they could have easily added a 2-4 episode of another type of Don Battle somewhere before the league and have Ash win it.

    It was easily possible if the writers haven't planned on making wasted episode like the Axew episode during the league or Durant episode or the Cubchoo episode during the Meloetta arc. There are many similar episodes like that during the course of BW.

    The only thing i would say is that, after DP for some reason the writers had decided to drop focus on the battling aspect and focused more on useless promotion aspect.

    I mean take the example of the Marine Cup, was it really necessary to only use Pikachu in all the fights. Didn't he have 5 more pokemons with him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosMage View Post
    Every tournament loss has a decent explanation. Iris winning the Club Battle was linked to the recent breakthrough with Excadrill, her powerhouse who had a massive advantage over Pikachu. Besides, it's not like Iris isn't one of the main characters and the set of wings never came into play much. Snivy and Palpitoad each took out a major recurring rival and Cilan and Iris had the privilege of defeating Trip and Stephan, so I don't see the problem with this one. It's not like Iris beat Ash with Axew, she used her strongest pokemon who she's been with for a long time.

    In the Clubsplosion, the whole point was to showcase Sawk and Throh, plus a few other fighting-types they'd not featured yet (like Conkeldurr and Emboar) and develop Scraggy a little. Scraggy got some believeable victories against Simisage and Simipour but that tournament could only ever end one way, with Sawk defeating Throh against all odds. Ash, Iris and Cilan all had decent battles in the tournament but this one just wasn't for them or their pokemon to shine in.

    As for the Junior Cup, which I agree was majorly rushed, I believe that also ended exactly as it should dramatically. Trip idolised Alder, as had been set up a long time before, and wanted to battle him. We also had Iris' Dragonite, Dawn's return, Trip's newly-evolved Serperior, Georgia and Burgundy being back... that's a lot going on. Ash had the privilege of an evolution and victory for Krookodile against Iris' seemingly unstoppable Dragonite, but Trip was the one who needed that battle against Alder more than Ash. The battle was barely a couple of minutes long, because as with all champion challenges on the show Trip didn't stand a chance. They also needed to build up Serperior for the league, as presumably they'd decided by that point that Trip would only battle Ash with Serperior there.

    And then there's the League. Ash doesn't win Leagues. We know this. It was a disappointing League, but hardly a shocking one. Ash did well against two established rivals and a couple of off-screen guys. The writers dropped the ball with the Cameron battle, but the rest of the league was competent enough considering how short they had to make it.

    I definitely want another major challenge for Ash at the end of all of this Da nonsense, but I won't complain about Ash not winning tournaments when the writers had perfectly good reasons for Iris, Stephan and Trip to win their tournaments and didn't just decide at random, and Ash performed respectably in all three. And the league... come on, stop complaining about Ash not winning leagues.
    First of all nice post, but I can't agree some of them.

    There is nothing wrong Iris winning a cup.She is one of the main characters in BW.Her story is good.I completely agree.

    Second tournament was about Zuruggu/Scraggy's development.I really like him but he isn't a strong pokemon right now.He can't even walk in the DA ending sadly.So that tournament was a total waste.

    In BW 54 Shootie said strength is the most important thing to reach a goal.Champion Alder/Adeku said "Strength isn't the most important thing to become a champion,firstly humans should be close to their pokemons or something like that."But in the Junior Cup finals Shootie's Jalorda beat Ash's Chaoboo without taking damage.So Adeku wasn't right? or Ash/Satoshi is a weak trainer?Everyone was watching that battle sadly.Alder,Shirona, Hikari etc.Ash got 3rd defeat against his rival.

    I already reviewed Isshu/Unova league in other topic.http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthr...-Anime/page147

    It is the worst league in series.I can't believe how Kotetsu has fully evolved strong pokemons like Hydreigon, Ferrothorn,Samurott, Lucario etc.I know Ash can't win a league, but he should have been at least finalist in this league.

    Ash wasn't sad when losing to Kotetsu.He was happy while watching Kotetsu vs Virgil match.Becoming a Pokemon master was Ash's goal.Looks like he forgot his main goal.

    Writers care so much about Ash's rivals or Iris.Give them great pokemons, but what about main character?I believe most of us watching this anime because of Ash.Seeing his development etc.Writers simply made Ash loser trainer in BW series.It was really annoying to see his rivals winning , Ash losing everytime and Ash left Isshu/Unova without winning anything.I think this is the main reason Bw ratings is lower than other series.He did better in every league and he regressed in BW.

    Then DA! started and writers made Ash Marine Cup winner in 5 minutes with rushed battles.Finalist didn't even care about battle.I don't think this cup made Ash better trainer.It wasn't even a tournament episode.

    Yeah, Ash deserves to win a major tournament, but I don't think all BW rivals coming to Kanto for a tournament.DA! has just filler episodes until XY starts.

    I really hope writers learn their mistakes, won't make Ash reboot again in XY.Ash should continue his story from DP series.
    Last edited by Matsuyamakun; 14th May 2013 at 3:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    Still top 10. They don't have to do anything.
    You haven't noticed all the stunts the Pokemon people have been trying to pull since the BW2 ended? I think even they noticed how far the ratings took a dive, Charizard??? Team Rocket back to comical ways? Episode N, Whos one of the most popular characters in the series?? Older Pokemon coming back?? Mewtwo??

    I don't know what the ratings were like when D/P and AG aired but I assume they are going to try and go that way again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDragonfangirl View Post
    You haven't noticed all the stunts the Pokemon people have been trying to pull since the BW2 ended? I think even they noticed how far the ratings took a dive, Charizard??? Team Rocket back to comical ways? Episode N, Whos one of the most popular characters in the series?? Older Pokemon coming back?? Mewtwo??

    I don't know what the ratings were like when D/P and AG aired but I assume they are going to try and go that way again.
    Ratings have been dropping since Johto ended. It didnt drop as fast in AG or DP but with BW it started strong and then fell gradually. I believe they saw the err of their ways with the massive reset they gave Ash. The Johto-Ag reset was understandable it was as close to a reboot we will get. The BF-Sinnoh reset was small and that was only to Pikachu. I do believe they are reaching since BW2 The Dawn cameo, meloatta TR Arc, Ep. N, Charizard and Butterfree. But those are the break with any franchise that last 16 years or more a good example would be Nintendo. They are still big in the world but they are being caught up too. You have to stay fresh not always rest on your laurels. Hopefully X/Y will work to rectify that.


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    I honestly think this was Ash weakest region as trainer. Sure you could argue its Kanto, but at least he was there learning from mistakes progressing as trainer and utilizing knowledge he acquired from before to his advantage. Not to mention he was beginner back than with his relatively moderate performance being excusable at that point.

    On other had in Unova we witnessed his regression in competence doing worse than he did in previous regions as far his credibility, performance at league and amount of accomplishments he collected as trainer goes.

    Perhaps biggest disappointment was Unova league where he step down from top 4 in DP to top 8 again ending as shortest constructed league up to date. Battles were simplified and rushed, whole introduction of Virgil to Ash story became pointless when he never even had chance to battle him in tournament just to see him losing to completely dimwitted and brain scattered trainer Cameron whose reckless, carefree attitude didn't cost him anything in process winning through luck.

    Out of whole main cast im displeased the most with Ash development in this saga feeling like his whole journey in BW was kinda pointless not coming closer toward his pokemon master career nor reaching new level as trainer.

    Granted Ash doing worse compared to previous achievement could had made for nice twist bringing certain dose of realism in whole thing(in real life that happens to skilled sportsman all the time), soiling ground for some sort of crisis Ash would go through starting to reconsider his whole strategy.

    But as showed that went nowhere with writers either not having motive or enough skill to take his character through such route and make something meaningful out of it serving as prelude toward deeper, more complex progression later down the road.

    Out of all tournaments they entered i was fine with Ash losing in Club Battle having no problems with Iris defeating him considering how she wasn't rookie battling and training long before he even started journey, and because Excadrill had huge advantage as ground type.

    Maybe no one gained much from this, but you don't need to have development in every battle being nice to see sometime character winning just for the sake of it and show his skills through duel.
    It was first tournament, refreshing substitute for contests and i enjoyed in it not being bothered much by some deux machina battles and contrived plot devices.
    Beside Ash coming in finals was nothing to scoff at imo.

    In Donamite tournament it wasn't to expect that he will win either nor it would make him gain much from it, since focal point of competition was to focus on battling type and Stephan with his Sawk to prove he can defeat Throh despite chances being against him. As well to highlight his abilities as trainer presenting him as threat for Ash in Vertress conference.
    On a side note i should mention it helped Ash Scraggy indirectly in training to perfect focus blast too, i guess.

    A far as Junior Cup goes i actually find Ash should have won that competition. He showed to be one of top contenders for first place progressing through competition by using smart strategy and creative combinations. Whether it was against Iris Dragonite by using digging to avoid attacks and counter with stone edge with evolution and learn of new attack like dragon claw giving him edge in battle. Or against Trip who suddenly came of in light of competent and super strong trainer with Serperior despite not showing any concrete training or strength which would justify such drastic improvement. Especially when he used more remarkable strategy by taking to advantage Pignite flame charge increasing its speed to hit grass type or by using fire pledge to surround opponent.

    Instead only real accomplishment Ash got in form of winning competition, was last minute made Marine Cup which happened recently being comprised in episode which was by nature filler. Thus didn't made him any stronger, helped to develop his pokemon or learn something new coming of as afterthought to just have Ash win something for sake of winning.

    Which was reflection of poor and uncarefully planned writing.

    Quote Originally Posted by gohan5 View Post
    The only exception is Dawn with the counter shield, but even that wasn't like his ace in the hole. Ash in DP did a lot of heavy training. But what did Misty do? Brock cooked and showed him how not to pick up women lol. Nothing to do with his status as a trainer is the point..
    Misty and Brock actually influenced Ash's growth as trainer during its rookie days quitealot with tips, encouragement, teaching and strong friendship which was established between them leaving impact on his gradual change.

    For example Misty pointed out Ash mistakes,giving him tips when it comes to choice of using pokemon in some battles aswell what kind of pokemon types are good against other.Pushed him to train and take battles seriously, influenced outcome of battles with motivation speeches and made sure to get him out of trouble.

    Brock left big impact on Ash character too.His help during pokemon battles,great deal of knowledge serving as coach and mentor helped Ash a lot being able to learn basics in pokemon battles. He akso quite often provided help in battling strategies helping him to prepare them along with giving tips to how to take care of his pokemon.
    Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemaniac24 View Post
    They don't need to end the show after he wins a League.
    Agreed, its not like Ash development would have to end after winning one league. Especially when whole concept of regional tournament showed to be just one in line of steps someone need to obtain before becoming pokemon master(as confirmed by E4 Lucian).

    In DBZ Goku won ton of tournaments, defeated various main villains but that didn't stopped writers from doing more substantial growth with character working to perfect himself more, battle stronger villains and deal with various issues toss in front of him. Same applies to Tyson from Beyblade whose journey didn't ended just because he became world champion, Dan from Bakugan or Luffy from One Piece.

    There are many things left unexplored about his past, such as father who writers could use at some point as breaking point in Ash story being portrayed as master himself having father vs son showdown, some sort of test to determine if Ash has what it takes. Or his connection to Ho-oh being said how this pokemon shows himself only to special trainers out there.

    Furthermore we don't know what other challenges and complex tasks(like Battle Frontier was for example) Ash would need to accomplish after winning league and challenging E4 before he becomes recognized as strongest trainer in world.

    Its obvious how there exist material to go forward with Ash even after winning league, but writers hesitation and conservative approach preferring to keep "status quo" is stopping characters and story from evolving perturbing anime quality.

    However getting rid of him and introducing clone wont really make writing better either, since key of solution to problems lies in writers and break of current formula starting to innovate and do more bold steps with characters they write for in order to maintain audience interest.

    And judging by negative reception from fans, decline in ratings and complaints only serves as indication how they will be bound to change current approach and inject more subtle changes in way protagonist is handled in order to preserve show success.

  25. #75
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    I don't think that this was bad treatment as they did with the sinnoh League

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