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Thread: Treatment of Ash & Others in Best Wishes, Purpose of Da! Discussion

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyAsADunsparce View Post
    The really should've planned more ahead. Either they should've had a slower pace and a longer league, which would've been totally fine with me. They could've done a World Tournament Arc in between with old Gym Leaders returning for example. This way the rivalries with Trip, Burgundy, Bianca, Georgia, Cameron, Stephan and maybe even Virgil could've been more developed. And they could've gotten better closure. A longer league with a 6 vs. 6 with Trip or Bianca would've been nice imo.

    Or they could've made Episode N longer, where Ash had to track down all Seven Sages and defeat them. Kinda like Gym Badges but instead of a badge they would tell you where the next sage is and the last one tells you were Ghetsis is. Shadow Triad could be involved in this as well.

    Or after Episode N, they could have a league similar to the Orange Island with in the end a big tournament in which Ash can use it's reserves. Or maybe the White Treehollow/Black Tower and Benga for a few episodes.

    Anyway my point is, they should've gave Ash a goal. And not let him just take a major detour home. I mean Heck they even could've taken the Sinnoh Battle Frontier and put it in the DA archipelago for Ash to challenge them. I mean they put the Hoenn Battle frontier in Kanto after all. Lots of options but instead they chose a cruise. Not really my style tbh. I'm still hoping for a tournament and a lab episode though! That could redeem DA.
    A tournament would redeem it for sure, but not just one lab episode if it something boring like ash just showing his old pokemon to iris and cilan, and trio attacks and blasts off.
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  2. #102
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    I find it incredibly sad that Iris is the only getting decent development actually relevant to her goal, that isn't pointless in this DA arc.

    Cilan- I don't know if that Purrloin episode was relevant or not, but I'm going with not, but I could be wrong. Still not as relevant as Iris.

    Ash- The Caterpie evolving into Butterfree episode is pointless, and completely irrelevant. Even if he were to somehow catch it. Since he should be focusing on his OWN Pokemon not a wild Pokemon. Helping a wild Pokemon evolve, isn't making his own Pokemon stronger.

    Iris- A goal set by Drayden for Iris to become a gym leader, while Iris has let's call it "Confrontation" with an actual Dragon gym leader, the only one outside of Drayden (and game Iris, White only). Is completely and wholly relevant.

    Just shows that the writers favor Iris way too much.
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    The Cilan episode wasn't relevant to his development because of how the only actual development - why he's afraid of Purrloin - was ignored and not shown to the viewers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dman_dustin View Post
    I find it incredibly sad that Iris is the only getting decent development actually relevant to her goal, that isn't pointless in this DA arc.

    Cilan- I don't know if that Purrloin episode was relevant or not, but I'm going with not, but I could be wrong. Still not as relevant as Iris.

    Ash- The Caterpie evolving into Butterfree episode is pointless, and completely irrelevant. Even if he were to somehow catch it. Since he should be focusing on his OWN Pokemon not a wild Pokemon. Helping a wild Pokemon evolve, isn't making his own Pokemon stronger.

    Iris- A goal set by Drayden for Iris to become a gym leader, while Iris has let's call it "Confrontation" with an actual Dragon gym leader, the only one outside of Drayden (and game Iris, White only). Is completely and wholly relevant.

    Just shows that the writers favor Iris way too much.
    I bet it has to do with her being in the champion in bw2. For the most part, all three relatively had equal development up until around the start of best wishes 2 And iris getting dragonite...and her girl crush on cynthia. Since then, she has had by far the most focus.
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by dman_dustin View Post
    I find it incredibly sad that Iris is the only getting decent development actually relevant to her goal, that isn't pointless in this DA arc.

    Cilan- I don't know if that Purrloin episode was relevant or not, but I'm going with not, but I could be wrong. Still not as relevant as Iris.

    Ash- The Caterpie evolving into Butterfree episode is pointless, and completely irrelevant. Even if he were to somehow catch it. Since he should be focusing on his OWN Pokemon not a wild Pokemon. Helping a wild Pokemon evolve, isn't making his own Pokemon stronger.

    Iris- A goal set by Drayden for Iris to become a gym leader, while Iris has let's call it "Confrontation" with an actual Dragon gym leader, the only one outside of Drayden (and game Iris, White only). Is completely and wholly relevant.

    Just shows that the writers favor Iris way too much.
    Cilan isn't a developing character he's more so comedic and fun times and Ash stopped getting any form of character development after AG because he stopped having flaws then, his only flaw at the time was his cockiness that happened once with Drake and another time with Brawly but otherwise these days Ash is just a static and unchanging character. I don't remember one bit of CD he got.

    So far Iris has:

    -Improved upon her fear of Ice-types, doesn't fear Vanilluxe.
    -Got her unruly Dragonite under control.
    -Got a Gym Battle against Drayden where she's realized a secondary goal upon her main one that intertwine and connect to each other.(Dragon Master and Dragon Gym Leader)
    -Her Axew can at least battle now abut he's average but that's something compared to not being able to touch Pansage and his development is connected to her's.
    -Her insubordinate Excadrill listens to her and in the process she's learned and had focus on learning to understand her Pokemon better. This later came up again and into play with Dragonite since he didn't trust humans.
    -Her rivalry with Georgia has become one where they don't dislike each other more so they now recognize each other as frenemies and worthy adversaries as evidenced by the Junior Cup.
    -She also used that trick from her village elder to calm down a Hydreigon and bring a Deino out of its shell. Showing she's improved on one of two of the things it takes to be a Dragon Master.(Understanding their hearts)

    Looks like she's getting another development episode with Clair who will surely help her get comfy with the idea of being a Gym Leader since she was hesitant of taking the job when offered it, it also connects back to Cynthia and how Iris looks up to her and you also realize that Clair trained Lance, the Champion of Kanto/Johto, iirc.

  6. #106
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    I honestly never really was a fan of how clair trained lance in the anime, because it appeared to be the opposite in the games.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dman_dustin View Post
    I find it incredibly sad that Iris is the only getting decent development actually relevant to her goal, that isn't pointless in this DA arc.

    Cilan- I don't know if that Purrloin episode was relevant or not, but I'm going with not, but I could be wrong. Still not as relevant as Iris.

    Ash- The Caterpie evolving into Butterfree episode is pointless, and completely irrelevant. Even if he were to somehow catch it. Since he should be focusing on his OWN Pokemon not a wild Pokemon. Helping a wild Pokemon evolve, isn't making his own Pokemon stronger.

    Iris- A goal set by Drayden for Iris to become a gym leader, while Iris has let's call it "Confrontation" with an actual Dragon gym leader, the only one outside of Drayden (and game Iris, White only). Is completely and wholly relevant.

    Just shows that the writers favor Iris way too much.
    You are wrong. Iris is underdeveloped as well. She's just pretty better than Cilan when it comes to development, but if you compare her development with the previous girls, it's almost zero. She should have gotten a gradual development throughout. Instead, they shoved all the development in the beginning of BW S2 and then completely forgot about her. Right now, she's suffering from lack of development too.

    Cilan is in a worse state, but I think the lack of development can be attributed to the chance that he might accompany him to Kalos. If he does(and that's a if), he could perhaps recieve some major development in Kalos. But if he does not go to Kalos, then I must say he will stay inderdeveloped. It's a pity because one can use his quirks to make him a great character.

    And I think Iris is getting focus because she might leave. However I won't speculate further on her departure.

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    I really thought DA would be solid. But there ois no development at all. No new moves no evolutions no character development. It really doesn't work.

    Okay we will get some Iris closure with Clair appearing but nothing else.

    I still hope they give us a good tournament like the first Don tournament so the story concludes well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracoflare View Post
    You are wrong. Iris is underdeveloped as well. She's just pretty better than Cilan when it comes to development, but if you compare her development with the previous girls, it's almost zero. She should have gotten a gradual development throughout. Instead, they shoved all the development in the beginning of BW S2 and then completely forgot about her. Right now, she's suffering from lack of development too.
    At least she did better job than Ash and Cilan.Her Kibago is still weak, but she got powerful Dragonite in one episode which can take x4 Ice type attacks.
    She already has Uber Excadrill.She challanges against Shirona and Drayden.Most likely she will battle against Clair.Aren't these enough?Ash got nothing in Best Wishes.
    Writers clearly love Iris more than other characters.I won't be surprised if only Ash apologizes to Iris in DA episode 9 and they continue traveling.
    Last edited by Matsuyamakun; 8th June 2013 at 10:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matsuyamakun View Post
    At least she did better job than Ash and Cilan.Her Kibago is still weak, but she got powerful Dragonite in one episode which can take x4 Ice type attacks.
    She already has Uber Excadrill.She challanges against Shirona and Drayden.Most likely she will battle against Clair.Aren't these enough?Ash got nothing in Best Wishes.
    Writers clearly love Iris more than other characters.I won't be surprised if only Ash apologizes to Iris in DA episode 9 and they continue traveling.
    People think Iris getting a Dragonite is unfair. I repeat this for the millionth time: Iris's goal isn't to become a Pokemon Master. How strong her Pokemon are doesn't matter to her growth.

    Her goal is to 1) Understand Dragons better 2) Raise that little Kibago (that ironically never grows up)

    They didn't give her Dragonite because they want her to win tournaments or anything....just hearing that makes me sick. She was given Dragonite so that she could understand the heart of a brash, unsociable, highly powerful Dragon which hates humans with a passion. Her bond with Dragonite was supposed to gradually grow until Dragonite completely trusts her and etc. Cynthia said in the Junior Cup that she still had a long way to go. Even in the Drayden episode hints about Dragonite's development was talked about. But all of this disappeared after that.

    Her bond with Dragonite was left with a question mark "?". What I know is that Dragonite is now just a soulless Pokemon that is following Iris's command for some reason even Dragonite doesn't know.

    But I will heartily agree that Iris was the most developed. She was atleast given a troublesome Dragonite to deal with and some character development in the process. Cilan is getting more and more detective episodes which the writers are for some reason finding more important than actual development.

    Ash...well he gets the Butterfree episode. *Runs*

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    It could be a lot better, if Iris evolved her Axew to Haxorus.Because Axew wanted to evolve. or Iris should have caught Dratini and evolved him into Dragonite.Seeing her development could be nice.Getting a Dragonite in one episode a little unfair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matsuyamakun View Post
    It could be a lot better, if Iris evolved her Axew to Haxorus.Because Axew wanted to evolve. or Iris should have caught Dratini and evolved him into Dragonite.Seeing her development could be nice.Getting a Dragonite in one episode a little unfair.
    Iris technically caught Dragonite it in one episode, but in these sense of being one with her Pokemon she had received fair comparison by Dragonite being stubborn. I think her catching Dratini would have been boring and catching Dragonite is the correct thing to do. Not all the characters need to start from the scratch like Ash. It's a fresh change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracoflare View Post
    Iris technically caught Dragonite it in one episode, but in these sense of being one with her Pokemon she had received fair comparison by Dragonite being stubborn. I think her catching Dratini would have been boring and catching Dragonite is the correct thing to do. Not all the characters need to start from the scratch like Ash. It's a fresh change.
    There could have been another way: get a stubborn and powerful Dragonair and evolve it. In that way Iris could have accomplished two goals at the same time: learn to get in synch with a powerful Pokémon and evolve a dragon (since I doubt Axew will evolve in BW, if ever). I think that could have been a good compromise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    There could have been another way: get a stubborn and powerful Dragonair and evolve it. In that way Iris could have accomplished two goals at the same time: learn to get in synch with a powerful Pokémon and evolve a dragon (since I doubt Axew will evolve in BW, if ever). I think that could have been a good compromise.
    Yea, but the a dragoniar with the attitude of dragonite is pretty hard to picture honestly, and it wouldnt really work as much in plot then.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eneci View Post
    I really thought DA would be solid. But there ois no development at all. No new moves no evolutions no character development. It really doesn't work.

    Okay we will get some Iris closure with Clair appearing but nothing else.

    I still hope they give us a good tournament like the first Don tournament so the story concludes well.
    You'd think they would find a way to do something with this extra time, even if it's just exploring some minor character traits. The Oshawott, Zoroark, and pirate episodes were pretty mediocre so it's just becoming a chore to get through.
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    Quote Originally Posted by yuoke View Post
    Yea, but the a dragoniar with the attitude of dragonite is pretty hard to picture honestly, and it wouldnt really work as much in plot then.
    They could have had the Dragonair distrust humans...not hard since this Dragonite is the black sheep of its species with its attitude. Catching a fully evolved Dragonite to "prove herself" was too much considering she barely did anything else towards her goal. It comes off as unfair compared to the others
    Last edited by TheFonz; 8th June 2013 at 6:24 PM.




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    Quote Originally Posted by yuoke View Post
    Yea, but the a dragoniar with the attitude of dragonite is pretty hard to picture honestly, and it wouldnt really work as much in plot then.
    It really wouldn't matter. She could have got a Dratini or a Dragonaire and could have development just as good as Dragonite. Just because it's fully evolve doesn't mean anything. Dragonaires can be badass as well.

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    the real thing that has disapointed me with the da episodes is that there has been no progress.Only 1 capture (and that was by oak) no new moves no evo's and no major battles. I think they should've just had a final don george tournament. At least that way everyone could've battled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luthor View Post
    the real thing that has disapointed me with the da episodes is that there has been no progress.Only 1 capture (and that was by oak) no new moves no evo's and no major battles. I think they should've just had a final don george tournament. At least that way everyone could've battled.
    i agree. maybe not a don george tournament, but maybe something to do with the pokemon world tournament. Heck if they were going to have a filler saga then they could have at least made the league longer.
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    To be fair there could still be a tournament. We do still have a couple of months of unknown eps

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    Da is filler, we all knew that.
    So in terms of who's getting the most development, that's Iris.
    I guess Ash got some type of development but not really.
    Cilan...
    And the rivals, let one have a solid conclusion please!
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    The problem with "Iris' Dragonite" is this: Iris is capturing a fully evoled pseudo-legendary pokemon one episode before a tournament starts and in the next 3 episodes Dragonite takes the complete spotlight in the middle of a past's character cameo.

    I like the same Dragonite in Project Tempest, Village/Drayden arc and through Episode N. Mainly because it's developed, develop Iris and doiesn't look so overpowered anymore.

    ==================

    Also, seriously. I start to like DA more than before. Why?
    -Because I like that Ash wins something in Best Wishes, although it's lower than I want.
    -Because Oshawott win something in Best Wishes, something that hasn't happened since Clay.
    -Because Zoroark debuted. And more than that, because I love the history of tJoy in that island.
    -I like the Rotom episode for many reasons. One of them is the capture.
    -And I like that last week there were a double battle.

    And I'm looking forward for at least, the 3 next episodes, even if I had a dissapointment in one of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fer92 View Post
    The problem with "Iris' Dragonite" is this: Iris is capturing a fully evoled pseudo-legendary pokemon one episode before a tournament starts and in the next 3 episodes Dragonite takes the complete spotlight in the middle of a past's character cameo.

    I like the same Dragonite in Project Tempest, Village/Drayden arc and through Episode N. Mainly because it's developed, develop Iris and doiesn't look so overpowered anymore.

    ==================

    Also, seriously. I start to like DA more than before. Why?
    -Because I like that Ash wins something in Best Wishes, although it's lower than I want.
    -Because Oshawott win something in Best Wishes, something that hasn't happened since Clay.
    -Because Zoroark debuted. And more than that, because I love the history of tJoy in that island.
    -I like the Rotom episode for many reasons. One of them is the capture.
    -And I like that last week there were a double battle.

    And I'm looking forward for at least, the 3 next episodes, even if I had a dissapointment in one of them.
    As much as I hate Da!, yeah the episodes are passable. Not the Zoroark one though....I just find it...bad? Not sure what's the feeling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fer92 View Post
    The problem with "Iris' Dragonite" is this: Iris is capturing a fully evoled pseudo-legendary pokemon one episode before a tournament starts and in the next 3 episodes Dragonite takes the complete spotlight in the middle of a past's character cameo.

    I like the same Dragonite in Project Tempest, Village/Drayden arc and through Episode N. Mainly because it's developed, develop Iris and doiesn't look so overpowered anymore.

    ==================

    Also, seriously. I start to like DA more than before. Why?
    -Because I like that Ash wins something in Best Wishes, although it's lower than I want.
    -Because Oshawott win something in Best Wishes, something that hasn't happened since Clay.
    -Because Zoroark debuted. And more than that, because I love the history of tJoy in that island.
    -I like the Rotom episode for many reasons. One of them is the capture.
    -And I like that last week there were a double battle.

    And I'm looking forward for at least, the 3 next episodes, even if I had a dissapointment in one of them.
    ]

    Because BW was such a disappointment, I've lowered my standards and expectations. And after doing that some of the DA! episodes aren't too bad.

    I actually enjoyed the episode with Rotom for instance. So far I'm very critical of DA! and not a fan, but I gotta say that there have been some good moments. I'm also looking forward to the Break Up episode, Butterfree episode, Clair episode, Jirachi and hopefully a potential lab episode. But then again I'm not gonna get my hopes up too much...

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    Yeah, I'm not taking DA! too seriously. It's supposed to be a lighthearted filler saga, so I'm not expecting huge plots. No expectations, no disappointments.
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