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Thread: Losing in the Anime

  1. #26
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    If I remember, the dubbers add most of the mentions to events being annual. Don't know whether that was in the original or not though.

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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by AquaMilotic View Post
    He's still ten years old, I wouldn't be so sure about that...
    It's literally mentioned in the series 1 episode where he comes back to Pallet Town that it was 1 year since he met Pikachu, if I remember correctly, also, just because people don't age, doesn't mean time isn't passing, it's a cartoon for goodness sake.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Dragon View Post
    It's literally mentioned in the series 1 episode where he comes back to Pallet Town that it was 1 year since he met Pikachu, if I remember correctly, also, just because people don't age, doesn't mean time isn't passing, it's a cartoon for goodness sake.
    It was mentioned at the beginning of Best Wishes that he was ten-years-old. Even if we take your second point, one year of experience doesn't mean much.

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  4. #29
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    Ash doesn't age at all. As much as I want the writers to make him age as a sign of maturity and progression they're not going to do it. Which reminds me of
    when I first saw the Pokemon Black 2 and White 2 anime trailer for the game. Now if only the TV series was like that...*sighs* one can dream though....

  5. #30
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    Although he did mature from Johto to AG to DP in a way, as shown by his experience and who he had to teach and learn from, then BW regressed him back to 10 and there you have it.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by karczx View Post
    Although he did mature from Johto to AG to DP in a way, as shown by his experience and who he had to teach and learn from, then BW regressed him back to 10 and there you have it.
    Yeah pretty much sums it up right there. That is what makes me disappointed in Ash's character overall, he progresses for one region then reverts back into a noob the next.
    I was laughing so hard when even Dawn gave him trouble when they had that battle between her Quilava and his Pikachu in BW2, before she left again. I don't understand why
    the writers can't make him more wiser or at least evolve most of his Pokemon. I just once want to see Ash with a full team of evolved pokemon, that would be nice.

  7. #32
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    Yep. I loved DP Ash, but then him being downgraded in Unova was ridiculous. The only smart thing I remember him doing was saving Krookodile for later because he suspected Stephan was going to use Sawk.

  8. #33
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    Once, when Ash had a long winning streak in one of the Advanced Generation Episodes, he got really proud of himself and would have continued if Drake had not defeated him.
    Due to this, I think that losing is important too, so that someone is not overcome by pride.



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  9. #34
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    ^ I would love if he was as skilled as he was in AG. Facing trainers and being asked to be a Frontier Brain. Definitely shows he was getting closer to becoming a Pokemon Master until BW showed up.

  10. #35

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    Ash should be more than humble with all of the battles he's lost this series. In fact, out of Ash, Cilan, and Iris, it seems that Iris has grown the most. The sad part is that she's not even the focus of this anime, and her success only accentuates Ash's "amnesia" and sudden inexperience. She's right actually. He really is like a "little kid" now.
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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    It was mentioned at the beginning of Best Wishes that he was ten-years-old. Even if we take your second point, one year of experience doesn't mean much.
    Does Battle Frontier and Orange Islands champion mean much?

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Dragon View Post
    Does Battle Frontier and Orange Islands champion mean much?
    They're great achievements but they didn't stop him from losing to other trainers like Harrison, Morrison, and Tobias. Sure they were introduced to beat him but, in the context of the story, as far as we know none of them beat either of those leagues. Taking that into consideration, they may not mean a great for general experience.

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  13. #38
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    DP Ash was the best by far. It really showed how much he grew.
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  14. #39
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    Ash did the best in DP, counting the Orange Islands and Battle Frontier achievements aside.

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    For Ash it goes like this:

    Kanto: Rookie
    Johto: Marginally better, but still not all that strong as a trainer
    AG: Experienced, much more skilled, can actually be considered a competent trainer
    DP: Ash at his strongest, had really powerful Pokemon and actually skill and technique to his battles
    BW: Regressed Ash to his Johto self.


    Funny thing is people don't realize Best Wishes Ash is almost exactly like Johto Ash in terms of both personality and trainer skill. He went backwards two generations.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    They're great achievements but they didn't stop him from losing to other trainers like Harrison, Morrison, and Tobias. Sure they were introduced to beat him but, in the context of the story, as far as we know none of them beat either of those leagues. Taking that into consideration, they may not mean a great for general experience.
    Ash barely lost to Harrison and Tyson. Tyson went to win the League with his Meowth, which outlasted Pikachu by a second before collapsing. Ash also improved after the Hoenn League when he started beating Legendaries. Then he had an understandable loss against Tobias


    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    For Ash it goes like this:

    Kanto: Rookie
    Johto: Marginally better, but still not all that strong as a trainer
    AG: Experienced, much more skilled, can actually be considered a competent trainer
    DP: Ash at his strongest, had really powerful Pokemon and actually skill and technique to his battles
    BW: Regressed Ash to his Johto self.


    Funny thing is people don't realize Best Wishes Ash is almost exactly like Johto Ash in terms of both personality and trainer skill. He went backwards two generations.
    I think Johto Ash was where he started getting competent. It's such a shame Ash was doing so great, BW ruined it, and so people are constantly saying how Ash has sucked for the entire series. He was fine until the end of DP, which gave long time viewers a lot of hope for the series considering Ash beating Paul, his skills at their best, and doing as great as he did against a trainer with legendaries
    Last edited by TheFonz; 27th May 2013 at 3:08 PM.




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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanWaterOtter View Post
    Ash should be more than humble with all of the battles he's lost this series. In fact, out of Ash, Cilan, and Iris, it seems that Iris has grown the most. The sad part is that she's not even the focus of this anime, and her success only accentuates Ash's "amnesia" and sudden inexperience. She's right actually. He really is like a "little kid" now.
    There really isn't anything that Iris can say to him unlike Brock who has watched him mature a slight in AG and in DP. So her opinion accounts of BW and only BW. Only Dawn can account for that and even she was downplayed by coming to Unova as well.

    However, in AG, I didn't see how he was anymore of a winner than in BF where he pretty much dominatated most of his battles. But BW is poorly written. And Iris's development is better than Ash's because hers was rushed and she did less than all girls combined. So the writers need to do that since she will leave probably faster than Ash ever will. But that's not his fault. It's the writers for doing that with Iris and Ash in that matter.

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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caseydia View Post
    There really isn't anything that Iris can say to him unlike Brock who has watched him mature a slight in AG and in DP. So her opinion accounts of BW and only BW. Only Dawn can account for that and even she was downplayed by coming to Unova as well.

    However, in AG, I didn't see how he was anymore of a winner than in BF where he pretty much dominatated most of his battles. But BW is poorly written. And Iris's development is better than Ash's because hers was rushed and she did less than all girls combined. So the writers need to do that since she will leave probably faster than Ash ever will. But that's not his fault. It's the writers for doing that with Iris and Ash in that matter.
    It's not that Iris' development was written well or she grew the most, she was given the most. Take away catching Dragonite randomly and what does she have? Her Excadrill which grew, a pointless Emolga, and a babied Axew who she ignores to help grow, moreso after catching a Dragonite who is already fully evolved, already has a full moveset, and can already battle well. She didn't have to do anything besides bond with it, but for some reason this makes Iris a dragon master yet she hasn't raised a dragon. I guess Ash is a Pokémon Master since he has bonded with many many many more Pokémon than Iris has




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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFonz View Post
    Ash barely lost to Harrison and Tyson. Tyson went to win the League with his Meowth, which outlasted Pikachu by a second before collapsing. Ash also improved after the Hoenn League when he started beating Legendaries. Then he had an understandable loss against Tobias
    You've completely missed the point of our discussion. Allow me to repeat myself: winning the Orange League and the Battle Frontier are great achievements but they do not make Ash the most experienced trainer in the world. He still has only a year's worth of experience and there are trainers who are more experienced than that.

    I can take it further if you want and list everyone he's lost to since winning the Battle Frontier but that would have nothing to do with what we were discussing and why your reply doesn't address anything either.

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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    You've completely missed the point of our discussion. Allow me to repeat myself: winning the Orange League and the Battle Frontier are great achievements but they do not make Ash the most experienced trainer in the world. He still has only a year's worth of experience and there are trainers who are more experienced than that.

    I can take it further if you want and list everyone he's lost to since winning the Battle Frontier but that would have nothing to do with what we were discussing and why your reply doesn't address anything either.
    I was correcting your mistake on Morrison and Tyson, and emphasizing how those losses were good experience (which you said might not have been) since Tyson won the Hoenn League and DP was setting up Ash to go to the next level(which BW screwed up). Ash loses, but in AG and most of DP, he didn't have random fails like in BW. When he did lose in AG/DP it was for a good reason(Although DP had a few questionable fails, but farrrrrrr from BW)




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  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFonz View Post
    I was correcting your mistake on Morrison and Tyson, and emphasizing how those losses were good experience (which you said might not have been) since Tyson won the Hoenn League and DP was setting up Ash to go to the next level(which BW screwed up). Ash loses, but in AG and most of DP, he didn't have random fails like in BW. When he did lose in AG/DP it was for a good reason(Although DP had a few questionable fails, but farrrrrrr from BW)
    There was no mistake. Regardless of how close the battles were, he lost those battles which supported the point I was making. Please stop nitpicking points that have nothing to do with what I was discussing.

    If you really want to though, I'll entertain the discussion. "Good experience" is relative to oneself but may not mean much in comparison to the experience of other people. Considering this, my point is still valid.

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  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFonz View Post
    It's not that Iris' development was written well or she grew the most, she was given the most. Take away catching Dragonite randomly and what does she have? Her Excadrill which grew, a pointless Emolga, and a babied Axew who she ignores to help grow, moreso after catching a Dragonite who is already fully evolved, already has a full moveset, and can already battle well. She didn't have to do anything besides bond with it, but for some reason this makes Iris a dragon master yet she hasn't raised a dragon. I guess Ash is a Pokémon Master since he has bonded with many many many more Pokémon than Iris has
    Bonding with Pokémon doesn't make you master. You need to battle and have some wins in order to compensate for anything on this show. Ash hasn't won a whole lot of things except for most of his gym battles. And most of them were crappy. He won a few small competitions but most people don't care about that when the writers can't make him win at least one big one. This is why I feel bad for Ash when they have characters always calling Ash out on his faults knowing this. Yet they barely do it with anyone else on this show.

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