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Thread: Serebii CCAT2

  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    I don't care if we add Tyranitar or not, but we really need some kind of Steel Pokemon. Right now nothing is taking an Outrage from CB Kyurem-B, CB Dragonite, etc. all that well, and Moxie Salamence has the potential to sweep the team once it gets a kill. Tyranitar would help with special Dragons (mainly Specs Latios Draco Meteor spam), but it's far from perfect. If Latios predicts the (obvious) switch to Tyranitar and uses Surf, it'll kill something the next time it uses Draco Meteor. I honestly think plenty of Steel types would make good choices at this point, even if just something to take a Dragon attack when needed. I like the idea of throwing Scizor on the team. It keeps a lot of Pokemon in check and can take any Dragon attack and hopefully force the opponent out or kill it. The CB set is the most obvious pick, but I've used a Iron Plate set with Bullet Punch / U-turn / Superpower / Roost lately. It's the set that I occasionally throw onto an offensive team in case I need something to take random Dragon attacks and still check things like Terrakion and Salamence, and it works pretty well. Iron Plate Scizor still has a pretty strong Bullet Punch, but more importantly, it has Roost to hopefully last longer and take more hits. Of course, this set still has its own problems, namely with the weaker moves in general. We might also add something like Ferrothorn or Skarmory, something that can switch into random Dragons much more easily while also setting Spikes to assist Landorus-T's sweep.

    Just some ideas off the top of my head, but yeah, Dragons pretty much massacre what we've got right now.
    Offensive Heatran w/ Air Balloon is a better Dragon check IMO, and also shits on sun teams. It fears nothing from any dragon except Surf from the Latis (which most Latis don't carry unless it's on a Rain team) and the rare Aqua Tail or Superpower Dragonite, and can run Hidden Power (Ice) to beat any dragon except the ones I just mentioned. Scizor doesn't like taking Choice Band coverage moves from Dragonite and Kyurem, or Fire Blasts from Salamence. Earthquakes also hurt it quite a bit.

    I'm going to nominate this set, because it's my calling card, pretty much.



    Heatran @ Air Balloon
    Timid - Flash Fire
    252 Speed, 252 Sp. Atk, 4 Def
    -Fire Blast
    -Earth Power
    -Hidden Power (Ice)
    -Flame Charge

    The idea is simple, fire off a Flame Charge on a switch and sweep. However, he can also neatly come in on just about any dragon as long as his Air Balloon is intact, and dispose of it with Hidden Power. Fire Blast is a devastating STAB that murders pretty much anything that doesn't resist it. Earth Power handles opposing Trans and Ninetales, and Hidden Power (Ice) is for Dragons. Flame Charge is my signature set, allowing him to boost his only truly poor stat and potentially sweep. This thing also has no problem handling Sun teams all on its own, since not even Dugtrio can take it out after a boost. The item is necessary to beat Salamence and Garchomp and whatnot who carry Earthquake. Also, turning a 4x weakness into a temporary immunity is always nice, and gives him tons of opportunities to switch in. The EV spread is simple, max Speed, max Sp. Atk, 4 Def. I prefer Timid because it lets him outpace bulky Venusaur after a single Flame Charge, but Modest is a viable option as well.

    Alternatively a more conventional setter offensive Tran could be used, but that's so boring and such a waste of potential IMO.
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  2. #227
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    I was actually going to suggest one next round :$

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    use a fairy mon if dragon spam G_G

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    For kicks I slapped together my version of the Serebii CCAT (I ran Band TTar + CB Scizor for the steel) and am currently 13-0 on Smogon PS OU. It's fairly solid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny Magmortar View Post
    For kicks I slapped together my version of the Serebii CCAT (I ran Band TTar + CB Scizor for the steel) and am currently 13-0 on Smogon PS OU. It's fairly solid.
    I was thinking either Scizor or ScarfRachi, since its a nice secondary win condition.

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    scarf rachi has 0 bulk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny Magmortar View Post
    For kicks I slapped together my version of the Serebii CCAT (I ran Band TTar + CB Scizor for the steel) and am currently 13-0 on Smogon PS OU. It's fairly solid.
    You laddered with a monoice Delibird team once, I'd be surprised if you didn't ladder with some crappy haphazardly thrown-together team. Honestly you just make things work, what works for you doesn't work for 90% of the rest of the competitive community (Choice Band Porygon-Z...) but somehow it works for you.

    Nevertheless, CB TTar can at least come in on Draco Meteors and Pursuit trap **** like Latios. However, CB Dragonite and late-game Moxiemences still **** us up. IIRC both 2HKO, OHKO w/ a predicted Earthquake.
    “The God of the old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; petty, unjust, unforgiving, control freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty, ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. Those of us schooled from infancy in his ways can become desensitized to their horror."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Retribution View Post
    You laddered with a monoice Delibird team once, I'd be surprised if you didn't ladder with some crappy haphazardly thrown-together team. Honestly you just make things work, what works for you doesn't work for 90% of the rest of the competitive community (Choice Band Porygon-Z...) but somehow it works for you.

    Nevertheless, CB TTar can at least come in on Draco Meteors and Pursuit trap **** like Latios. However, CB Dragonite and late-game Moxiemences still **** us up. IIRC both 2HKO, OHKO w/ a predicted Earthquake.
    MoxieMence can be revenged by CB Sciz or ScarfRachi, and CBNite gets outsped and KO'd by 3/4 of our team. So Mence is a threat atm, but its a really easily countered mon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Contrail View Post
    MoxieMence can be revenged by CB Sciz or ScarfRachi, and CBNite gets outsped and KO'd by 3/4 of our team. So Mence is a threat atm, but its a really easily countered mon.
    Only if Rocks are up. If they're not, something is dying.
    “The God of the old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; petty, unjust, unforgiving, control freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty, ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. Those of us schooled from infancy in his ways can become desensitized to their horror."

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  10. #235

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    If not Scizor, I'm fine with using Heatran, but not Flame Charge Heatran. That set really sucks unless you're using a LO variant in the Sun, and if you build a team around it (trust me, I've tried it in BW1 and BW2). Not only does that Heatran set have a hard time sweeping when most (if not all) common Scarf users have a move with Heatran's name on it, but it really doesn't do much damage. Heck, you can't even OHKO SpDef Celebi after Stealth Rock (I know that Celebi's not doing much back, but you get my point). Not only that, but the team needs to be focused on Landorus-T. Flame Charge Heatran is the kind of Pokemon that demands the attention on itself, being a sweeper and all, and it doesn't even sweep all that well. BalloonTran in general might be alright for checking Sun teams, but that isn't all that necessary. Latias and Terrakion already put a bit of pressure on Sun teams in general, and Landorus-T can sweep through them with SR down and a Rock Polish boost. If anything, run something like Taunt, Substitute, or even Toxic in that last slot, any of which will probably be more useful against everything besides some Sun teams.

    Either Scizor or Heatran would do well in taking on Dragons. Neither of them are taking on Dragon attacks forever, but they are bulky enough to take one for the team once in a while. Heatran makes the best immediate check, but its Balloon absolutely must be intact if it wants to go one-on-one with Salamence, Dragonite, and Garchomp. Scizor is always a nice deterrent to Dragons pretty much all the time with its STAB Bullet Punch, and it's considerably more dangerous to Latios. I guess I'll just play off Mag's post and officially nominate this.

    Scizor @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    -Bullet Punch
    -U-turn
    -Superpower
    -Quick Attack / Pursuit

    I pretty much already explained why I feel this would be a good addition. It's a good emergency switch-in to random Dragon attacks, and it checks a wide number of Pokemon with Bullet Punch and Quick Attack, which lets us keep opposing sweepers at bay until we can find room to set up with our own sweeper. I prefer Quick Attack in that last slot since it offers a bit of extra offensive utility. For example, Quick Attack lets Scizor OHKO offensive Volcarona most of the time after Stealth Rock, and it does a considerable amount to other Steel-resistant sweepers such as Thundurus-T and Gyarados. Pursuit could work too, in case you want to go ahead and remove that Latios you just switched into and probably forced out. It's a bit more situational, though, and it would be pretty redundant if we actually get Tyranitar in the next round (I know that's thinking ahead a bit much, but oh well).

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    If anyone was wondering, here is what I came up with. Ice Punch on Tyranitar has bad coverage but it OHKOs Gliscor, Landy-T, and beats Dragonite without resorting to Stone Edge. Landy-T seems completely useless as a late game sweeper but its LO Earthquakes are hard to ignore. It has been a star player, but not as a Rock Polish sweeper.

    Tyranitar @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 104 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Crunch
    - Stone Edge
    - Pursuit
    - Ice Punch

    Landorus-Therian (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Swords Dance
    - Rock Polish

    Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 232 HP / 56 SAtk / 220 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Trick

    Terrakion @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Stealth Rock
    - Taunt

    Latias (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 72 HP / 184 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Recover
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Scizor @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk / 244 HP / 12 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Superpower
    - Quick Attack

  12. #237
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    Heatran @ Leftovers/Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    +Def, -Atk
    EVs: 60 HP / 252 Def / 196 SpD
    - Toxic
    - Lava Plume
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Earth Power / Protect

    Can take hits from Dragons, hit back, ToxiStall, handle other stuff.

    Heatran @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Flash Fire
    +SpA, -Atk
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
    - Fire Blast / Lava Plume / Overheat
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Flash Cannon

    A surprise these days, it can use any fire type move to cripple the opponent due to it's STAB and B130 SpA stat, and it can hit Dragons with HP Ice. earth power is for coverage and the SpD drop, and Flash Cannon is a STAB tht can hit hard.


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  13. #238
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    ok, couple things, first sun isnt such a threat that we need heatran, latias walls most sun sweepers and landorus slaughters sun after a rock polish, honestly we are more at threat for the random hydro pump spam, as well as hurrican from tornadus, and as jesusfreak said, dragons. Heatran only adds to the rain weakness, and as jesusfreak said, flame charge heatran outside of sun is garbo.
    I`m opposed to neither banded ttar as it provides weather control and trap threats like celebi that wall landorus t, and breaks wall in general, tho jesusfreak brings up good points with scizor as a revenger would be nice, but as he said, it can sponge forever.

    Tho I would like to nominate bait rachi special defensive jirachi would fill the role better
    Jirachi@leftovers
    impish/sassy
    252hp/4def/252sp def
    -wish
    -iron head
    -thunder wave
    -hp ice/protect

    Defensive jirachi helps by walling dragons, haxes, and wish passing, which can be used to help terrakion stay alive which is most helpful against sun and sand teams. Wish and iron head are obvious moves, I prefer thunder wave over body slam for guarentied para. Lastly protect for stalling for wish, or HP ice is for heavy damage against landorus t, gliscor, and dragons.



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    Lol sun does rape us what about Solarbeam? It hits Landy, Rotom, and Terrakion hard while an easy Sleep Powder Growth and HP Ice from Venusaur takes out Latias. Yes, sun is a threat. Heatran takes on Venusaur like a champ as well as Dragons.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Skamory7 View Post
    Lol sun does rape us what about Solarbeam? It hits Landy, Rotom, and Terrakion hard while an easy Sleep Powder Growth and HP Ice from Venusaur takes out Latias. Yes, sun is a threat. Heatran takes on Venusaur like a champ as well as Dragons.
    Heatran loses to Growth Venusaur with Earthquake. Heatran loses to Garchomp, Latios (Offensive Tran), Salamence, Dragonite with Earthquake. And you rarely see Sleep Powder and Growth together on Venusaur, and you rarely see HP Ice at all since Sludge Bomb is a good neutral STAB. Solarbeam is also rarely used due to the fact that Giga Drain gives Venu recovery, and the lack of power isn't a problem with Growth. The only thing I can think of that would use Solarbeam over Giga Drain is Ninetales. Heatran would probably be the worst steel to add here, because it makes a rain teams time so much easier, it has a crippling 2x weakness to ground so it can't tank a non-STAB EQ like Rachi or Scizor, it loses to Latios unless it Draco Meteors, while Rachi can come in on anything easily bar Specs HP Fire and Scizor can come in on a Draco or Psyshock and threaten it with priority instead of having to take another hit.

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    I think Heatran is a great fit for the team. I personally would suggest SubTran, but it's still very debatable on which set would be best. Jirachi is also a great option. Though, contrary to mcdanger's spread, I would suggest the standard 252 Hp/ 220 SDef/ 36 Spd to outpace Magnezone. U-turn is also advised to allow Jirachi NOT to be trapped by such a moderate threat to the team. This also allows Jirachi to pass its Wish without the worry of having to immediately switch and lose the receiver upon switching them in. Body Slam also deserves a sash with Protect & HP(Ice) on the Jirachi set in question because of its ability to hit Ground types who'd otherwise take the Thunder Wave with impunity. Such threats have been listed in mcdanger's comment[Landorus, Gliscor, etc.]. This possible option also allows Jirachi to outpace said Pokémon and hit them hard with either the HP(Ice) as also suggested by mcdanger or U-turn out to allow the switch-in to handle them. I advise that if going with the HP(Ice) & the Sassy nature, we distribute the EVs from Speed to Defense. At the bottom, I have made the changes a bit clearer for those to see. Take this as you will.

        Spoiler:- Just a few touches to mcdanger's Jirachi set:
    Last edited by CedOmega; 6th July 2013 at 2:40 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skamory7 View Post
    Lol sun does rape us what about Solarbeam? It hits Landy, Rotom, and Terrakion hard while an easy Sleep Powder Growth and HP Ice from Venusaur takes out Latias. Yes, sun is a threat. Heatran takes on Venusaur like a champ as well as Dragons.
    no one uses solarbeam saur because it giga drain is better to to heal off the LO damage, and hp ice does crap to latias, and sp def heatran loses to mixed venasaur, which is common, and is forced out by most dragons in fear of a OHKO from earthquake, while latios can force it out if it has surf. Even with jirachi sun saur isnt a bit threat as hp fire wont OHKO even at +2 iirc, and rachi can cripple it, while mixed earthquake does little damage, plus if its running hp fire, latias walls it.



  18. #243
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    Just a interesting question regarding this new pick:
    Why not CB Metagross? I was looking at the team and musing over the thought.
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  19. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcdanger View Post
    no one uses solarbeam saur because it giga drain is better to to heal off the LO damage, and hp ice does crap to latias, and sp def heatran loses to mixed venasaur, which is common, and is forced out by most dragons in fear of a OHKO from earthquake, while latios can force it out if it has surf. Even with jirachi sun saur isnt a bit threat as hp fire wont OHKO even at +2 iirc, and rachi can cripple it, while mixed earthquake does little damage, plus if its running hp fire, latias walls it.
    Venusaur actually sweeps the 4 Pokemon we have here after Growth with Rocks down. +2 Giga Drain + Sludge Bomb OHKOs everything, even Latias.

    I still suggest Choice Band TTar and Choice Band Scizor for the last two pokes. Together they can generally handle sun (Scizor can actually Pursuit trap Dugtrio) and maintain good offensive momentum with Terrakion and Landorus. Rotom can Volt Switch against incoming Lati@s and Celebi into TTar and just Pursuit the **** out of them. TTar and Scizor also have good defensive synergy with the rest of the team. Scizor can Bullet Punch stuff like Venusaur, Gengar, Kyurem, and Alakazam that would otherwise give the team some trouble.

    Heatran sucks because while it sort of checks dragons and sun (except not really) it doesn't actually help anything else sweep. We should run Pokemon that further the team's goal of ****ing **** up with Landorus not running checks to various stuff that just sit there checking random things without actually helping.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny Magmortar View Post
    Venusaur actually sweeps the 4 Pokemon we have here after Growth with Rocks down. +2 Giga Drain + Sludge Bomb OHKOs everything, even Latias.

    I still suggest Choice Band TTar and Choice Band Scizor for the last two pokes. Together they can generally handle sun (Scizor can actually Pursuit trap Dugtrio) and maintain good offensive momentum with Terrakion and Landorus. Rotom can Volt Switch against incoming Lati@s and Celebi into TTar and just Pursuit the **** out of them. TTar and Scizor also have good defensive synergy with the rest of the team. Scizor can Bullet Punch stuff like Venusaur, Gengar, Kyurem, and Alakazam that would otherwise give the team some trouble.

    Heatran sucks because while it sort of checks dragons and sun (except not really) it doesn't actually help anything else sweep. We should run Pokemon that further the team's goal of ****ing **** up with Landorus not running checks to various stuff that just sit there checking random things without actually helping.
    hate not having a damage calc, makes me look like an ***

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcdanger View Post
    hate not having a damage calc, makes me look like an ***

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  22. #247
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    I agree with Scizor. Pitched it some time back..., and yet, here we are... o~o

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    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Retribution View Post
    You laddered with a monoice Delibird team once, I'd be surprised if you didn't ladder with some crappy haphazardly thrown-together team. Honestly you just make things work, what works for you doesn't work for 90% of the rest of the competitive community (Choice Band Porygon-Z...) but somehow it works for you.
    To be fair the Delibird mono-ice was in NU and I only got to the top 5 or so, and the Band Porygon Z team was UU and didn't peak anywhere worth mentioning. Band Porygon Z is hilarious though, the sheer power and ability to lure in special walls is great though.


    Band PZ Double Edge vs...

    max/max+ Hippowdon - 47.61 - 56.19%
    max/max+ Slowbro - 53.29 - 62.94%
    max/max+ Gliscor - 57.06 - 67.23%
    max/4 Scizor - 44.6 - 52.47%
    4/max Blissey - 94.17 - 111.04%
    max/4 Umbreon - 72.58 - 85.78%

    It 2HKOs literally everything that doesn't resist it and even some that do. Anything that is not particularly bulky is OHKOed. Even Garchomp falls in one hit after Stealth Rocks.

    Edit: http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu7698396

    OK I used Return because at the moment I didn't know it learned Double Edge but both moves work!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny Magmortar View Post
    To be fair the Delibird mono-ice was in NU and I only got to the top 5 or so, and the Band Porygon Z team was UU and didn't peak anywhere worth mentioning. Band Porygon Z is hilarious though, the sheer power and ability to lure in special walls is great though.


    Band PZ Double Edge vs...

    max/max+ Hippowdon - 47.61 - 56.19%
    max/max+ Slowbro - 53.29 - 62.94%
    max/max+ Gliscor - 57.06 - 67.23%
    max/4 Scizor - 44.6 - 52.47%
    4/max Blissey - 94.17 - 111.04%
    max/4 Umbreon - 72.58 - 85.78%

    It 2HKOs literally everything that doesn't resist it and even some that do. Anything that is not particularly bulky is OHKOed. Even Garchomp falls in one hit after Stealth Rocks.

    Edit: http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu7698396

    OK I used Return because at the moment I didn't know it learned Double Edge but both moves work!!
    252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Porygon-Z Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 202-238 (57.06 - 67.23%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    I'm using this thing sometime. It's also interesting that he can still run, say, Thunderbolt and 2HKO Skarmory with it. This thing sounds like a seriously potent wallbreaker.
    “The God of the old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; petty, unjust, unforgiving, control freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty, ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. Those of us schooled from infancy in his ways can become desensitized to their horror."

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    Last edited by Sparkbeat; 11th July 2013 at 4:02 AM.

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