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Thread: Ubers Thread

  1. #1
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    Default Ubers Thread

    Seriously guys, we need an Ubers thread.

    For those of you who don't know, Ubers is a very well-balanced tier with a good selection of walls and sweepers, and has numerous strategies to be used. For example, Weather, Weatherless, Dual Weather, Swift Swim Abuse, Hyper Offense, Semi-Stall, ect. Pokemon from lower tiers are often used to make more of the potential in this tier, for example, Tyranitar, Lati@s twins, Kabutops, and Heracross, to name a few.

    Below, you will find the Pokemon that are IN the Ubers tier, but a ton more are viable.

    In this thread, discuss ANYTHING about Ubers (competitively), ranging from strategies to the Pokemon themselves.

    Pokemon in Ubers:

        Spoiler:- Clicky:


    I currently cannot find sprites for Xerneas and Yveltal. Will post them later.
    Last edited by justinjiaxinghu; 25th October 2013 at 1:09 PM.
    Credit to Astral Shadow!

  2. #2

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    What is your favorite moveset for Mewtwo? Mine is:



    Killer (Mewtwo) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Aura Sphere
    - Flamethrower
    - Ice Beam
    - Psystrike

    Even without taking the advent of Genesect into consideration, I believe that Mewtwo is much better off running a four-attack moveset rather than the standard Calm Mind set, as I think that Mewtwo, as a Pokémon, is far too easily revenge-killed by Choice Scarf Pokémon to be attempting to sweep teams, and should instead focus on punching holes in the opponent's team. For that reason, I prefer to maximize its coverage with Flamethrower over Calm Mind, as this move incinerates Jirachi, obliterates its number one enemy Genesect if it manages to hit that Pokémon on the switch, and is just a really powerful move in general when used in the Sun.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by PokéMaster Forever View Post
    What is your favorite moveset for Mewtwo? Mine is:



    Killer (Mewtwo) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Aura Sphere
    - Flamethrower
    - Ice Beam
    - Psystrike

    Even without taking the advent of Genesect into consideration, I believe that Mewtwo is much better off running a four-attack moveset rather than the standard Calm Mind set, as I think that Mewtwo, as a Pokémon, is far too easily revenge-killed by Choice Scarf Pokémon to be attempting to sweep teams, and should instead focus on punching holes in the opponent's team. For that reason, I prefer to maximize its coverage with Flamethrower over Calm Mind, as this move incinerates Jirachi, obliterates its number one enemy Genesect if it manages to hit that Pokémon on the switch, and is just a really powerful move in general when used in the Sun.
    This my favorite set as well, but with one change. I usually run Recover over Flamethrower (I actually use Fire Blast here, but they have the same role) or Aura Sphere depending on the team. Having a solid form of recovery is just fantastic when Mewtwo forces so many switches, which give you a free turn of healing.

  4. #4
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    Yeah, I also think CM Mewtwo kinda sucks. But the thing is, have any of you tried out CS Timid Mewtwo? It's insanely fast, and outspeeds Kabutops/Kingdra in Rain, making it a good revenge killer. Genesects also like to come into Mewtwos, but with CS, it would ouspeed and OHKO with Fire Blast/Flamethrower.


    P.S. Lugia seems to have lost popularity now. I rarely see it on simulators. Why is that? I always thought of it as "THE WALL"
    Credit to Astral Shadow!

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    Lugia is rarely seen because it's setup fodder for Ferrothorn and completely shut down by Taunters. It's also weak to Stealth Rock and has 4 moveslot syndrome(it wants Substitute, Toxic, Roost, Whirlwind, Reflect and Ice Beam on the same set).

  6. #6

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    Actually, Substitute Lugia is only setup fodder for Ferrothorn as far as its entry hazards are concerned. On the contrary, if the Ferrothorn user's team does not have a Rapid Spinner and has accumulated some layers of entry hazards on their field, the situation is actually completely opposite: Ferrothorn gives Lugia a free Substitute, since neither of its attacks come close to possessing sufficient power to break it, and then Lugia proceeds to demolish the opponent's team with a combination of Toxic and Whirlwind, while using Roost to heal and Substitute to protect itself from status, Dragon Tail, and Leech Seed. While Ferrothorn receives ample opportunities to set up entry hazards during this time, such does not mean much when there is no guarantee that Ferrothorn's trainer will even receive the opportunity to utilize those hazards for the rest of the match...

    Quote Originally Posted by justinjiaxinghu View Post
    Yeah, I also think CM Mewtwo kinda sucks. But the thing is, have any of you tried out CS Timid Mewtwo? It's insanely fast, and outspeeds Kabutops/Kingdra in Rain, making it a good revenge killer. Genesects also like to come into Mewtwos, but with CS, it would ouspeed and OHKO with Fire Blast/Flamethrower.


    P.S. Lugia seems to have lost popularity now. I rarely see it on simulators. Why is that? I always thought of it as "THE WALL"
    Choice Scarf Mewtwo has a decent niche for the reasons you mentioned, but its problem is that it faces too much competition from other Choice Scarf Pokémon, which have great advantages such as Download along with Explosion and a Same Type Attack Bonus U-turn (Genesect), ExtremeSpeed resistance along with a move that deals massive damage to the best Pokémon in the game (Terrakion), and access to an absurdly powerful Same Type Attack Bonus attack that can also be boosted to astonishing levels by the appropriate weather in order to outrun and KO most of the metagame in a single neutral hit (Kyogre and Reshiram), combined with the fact that it is often extremely detrimental, especially when facing stall teams, to use more than one Choice Scarf Pokémon in a team.

    Anyway, if you are wondering why Lugia is not seen often on Pokémon Showdown!'s current Uberssuspecttest ladder, it's because of the Sleep Clause being lifted for this suspect test. Not only has Darkrai always been one of Lugia's worst enemies, but using a Pokémon that cannot threaten Darkrai on top of being unable to afford running Sleep Talk is an extremely huge liability in a metagame without Sleep Clause. However, in a metagame in which Sleep Clause is present, Lugia is easily one of the best Pokémon in the entire game, due to the sheer number of threats one can not only wall, but completely neuter for more or less the rest of the match with paralysis by simply dedicating a single spot on a team for Lugia.

    Speaking of Lugia, what is your favorite moveset for it? Mine is:



    Surya (Lugia) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 HP / 52 Def / 204 Spd
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Roost
    - Thunder Wave
    - Toxic
    - Whirlwind

    While not as threatening as the Roost-Substitute-Toxic-Whirlwind/Dragon Tail set, which can easily 6-0 teams that don't have answers to entry hazards, this Lugia is, in my opinion, the ultimate defensive Pokémon in the entire Übers tier, simply because of the ease with which it switches in and simply neutralizes the vast majority of fast offensive threats with Thunder Wave, while crippling the slower and bulkier ones with Toxic, and also easily stopping set-up sweepers by using Whirlwind combined with its insane bulk thanks to Multiscale, which allows it to survive unbelievably powerful assaults including +1 super effective Judgments and +2 Shadow Forces.

  7. #7
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    Sleep Cause, eh?

    What do you guys think of Sleep Clause? Should it be banned or kept in the Ubers tier? Personally, I think it should be banned, to avoid excess trolling lmao.

    And yeah, I use the Roost+Sub+Toxic+Whirlwind set. I learned not to use Dragon Tail when it didnt break any subs :/
    Credit to Astral Shadow!

  8. #8

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    Yeah, when I first started using Lugia in Generation V, I actually did use Dragon Tail (along with Substitute, omitting Toxic back then), but ended up learning the value of using Whirlwind over it the hard way as I lost to various Calm Mind Arceus with Substitute.

    Anyway, when I first saw this thread, I immediately decided that I would vote to retain the Sleep Clause. But now that I have gained voting requirements for the Sleep Clause test (and additionally, for some reasons, also had to fight a significantly higher number of battles than the average person who gains voting requirements), I am actually changing from my original stance in regards to Sleep Clause, as not only do I hardly see anything bad about its absence from my laddering experiences, but despite the fact that the team I was using had Darkrai in it, I have found that in most of my battles, I won without even getting the chance to use Darkrai (or at least Dark Void) - on the contrary, I recall most of my victories having been achieved through an Extreme Killer Arceus sweep, showing that Extreme Killer Arceus is still better than Darkrai even in an environment without Sleep Clause. And while Darkrai certainly becomes an extremely powerful, and perhaps even overcentralizing Pokémon in the absence of Sleep Clause, I HAVE to dismiss that as a viable reason to retain the Sleep Clause, since claiming that the Sleep Clause should be retained on the grounds that Darkrai being extremely powerful and overcentralizing is undesirable in the Übers metagame is inconsistent with the fact that Arceus is allowed in the Übers metagame, and Smogon has no intentions of banning it and sees nothing wrong with it. If one day Smogon decides to ban Arceus from Übers, then I may consider Darkrai being extremely powerful and overcentralizing in the Übers metagame to be a reason to retain the Sleep Clause.

    With all of that said though, unlike the case with the Moody Clause and especially the OHKO Clause (which I have wanted to see removed ever since the Generation II days), I personally wouldn't mind the Sleep Clause getting retained either, as unlike the three clauses that were tested before it, the Sleep Clause is an official clause in some Pokémon games, such as Pokémon Stadium and Pokémon Stadium 2. And while the metagame without Sleep Clause is not less enjoyable than the one with Sleep Clause, I don't find it more enjoyable either. In fact, the reason why I will personally vote to remove the Sleep Clause is not because I prefer the metagame without Sleep Clause (as I completely don't mind either), but just because I intend to make a point about Arceus and the necessity of consistency and not having double standards in suspect testing and tiering (if Pokémon A is more powerful than, or at least not significantly weaker than Pokémon B, then I see no reason to ban Pokémon B or implement some rule or clause to nerf Pokémon B until either Pokémon A gets banned, or a rule or clause is implemented to nerf Pokémon A). In fact, my desire to do this is so strong that I am willing to see the Sleep Clause removed despite the fact both of my signature teams for Generation V Übers will instantly cease to be viable upon such an event.

  9. #9
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    I'd like to see the Sleep Clause banned again. It's just pretty annoying, forces you to switch around. I've find a Darkrai set with Substitute/Dark Void/filler/filler pretty annoying actually. You are put to sleep, and you can set up sub on the second turn. It pretty much screws up any slower Pokemon, and prevents you from switching out or anything. Anyways, I don't like Ubers without Sleep Clause, because Darkrai just became 800 times more annoying, honestly. It's either, priority, sleep talk or status for slower Pokemons, or just phasing. It's problematic when Darkrai comes in on a slower Pokemon, because when you switch out, they can just make the assumingly faster switch-in fall asleep. SO AGGGGhhhh

    Or maybe I just suck at ubers

    *insert okay face*

    Credits to Sworn Metalhead

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  10. #10

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    How unfortunate... it seems that I won't be voting for the Sleep Clause test after all despite all the time and effort I spent to gain the voting requirements. Ah well, it's no big loss. Participating in eighty seven Übers battles in the absence of Sleep Clause was truly an entertaining and refreshing experience nonetheless. And judging by the likelihood of the Sleep Clause being retained, given the idiocy, hypocrisy and cowardice that the Smogon community is so infamous for, it is sad to say that I may never receive the opportunity to battle in a metagame without the Sleep Clause ever again, so I can safely say that the numerous hours I spent on that Uberssuspecttest ladder have not gone to waste.

    In any case, what is your favorite moveset for Ho-Oh? Mine is:



    Ra (Ho-Oh) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Flame Charge
    - Roost
    - Sacred Fire

    When I first started using Ho-Oh, I strongly believed that Flame Charge was a far superior set to the standard Substitute set, not only because this move makes it an incredibly dangerous sweeper under harsh sunlight, but it can also do some things that a Substitute Ho-Oh could never dream of doing, such as completely and utterly annihilating Shaymin-S that use Leech Seed + Substitute, destroying Darkrai's Substitute with Flame Charge before proceeding to outrun it and KO it with Brave Bird or Sacred Fire provided something else has been put to sleep, weakening Calm Mind Arceus in the Sun with Flame Charge before proceeding to finish it with Sacred Fire, and defeating Latios in the Sun with Flame Charge + Sacred Fire, saving it from having to suffer Brave Bird recoil, which could knock it out if Latios hits Ho-Oh with a strong move like Psyshock or Draco Meteor in the process.

    While I still do strongly believe that Flame Charge Ho-Oh is an incredibly dangerous and underrated set, I eventually did come to understand why the vast majority of people value the Substitute set more though. Being very accustomed to using Ho-Oh in a team that also contains Lugia, I was oblivious to just how valuable bulk can be on Ho-Oh, because whenever I found my Ho-Oh to be at low health against a fast special attacker, I would just switch out, Regenerate health, and then continue walling with Lugia. But upon making and using a team with Ho-Oh but without a Lugia to act as a backup special wall, I realized that Ho-Oh really cannot afford to run the Flame Charge set as often as I initially believed, as that set requires 252 EVs to be placed in Speed, something many teams cannot afford, as Ho-Oh is their one and only good special wall and therefore cannot afford to have only 4 HP EVs. As such, that eventually led me to using this:



    Zanka no Tachi (Ho-Oh) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Regenerator
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 208 HP / 252 Atk / 48 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Roost
    - Sacred Fire
    - Substitute

    Another thing you may have noticed is that I very much prefer Life Orb over Leftovers on Ho-Oh despite the latter's far greater popularity. Since Ho-Oh already has so much healing power in Roost and Regenerator, I have never understood why people would choose to go overkill with recovery by giving it Leftovers, something Lugia is far better suited for anyway, rather than doing the exact opposite: Taking advantage of the very fact that Ho-Oh is a Pokémon with a 50% recovery move and a 33% recovery Ability, by pumping up the power of its attacks to sky-high levels with Life Orb, in exchange for a drawback that is more than mitigated by Roost and Regenerator anyway. With Life Orb, Ho-Oh can take out Latias, Latios and offensive Kyogre in a single Brave Bird, physically defensive Kyogre with two Brave Birds, physically defensive Giratina with three Brave Birds, and take out random Pokémon like Dialga and Arceus after just a bit of prior damage with a Sun-boosted Sacred Fire. As such, I personally believe that Life Orb Ho-Oh is by far the best wall-breaker in the entire game, being able to easily threaten the incredibly effective type of stall teams that use defensive Sleep Talk Kyogre, Ferrothorn, Tentacruel and a Giratina Forme, something a Leftovers Ho-Oh could never accomplish.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanicLanturn View Post
    I'd like to see the Sleep Clause banned again. It's just pretty annoying, forces you to switch around. I've find a Darkrai set with Substitute/Dark Void/filler/filler pretty annoying actually. You are put to sleep, and you can set up sub on the second turn. It pretty much screws up any slower Pokemon, and prevents you from switching out or anything. Anyways, I don't like Ubers without Sleep Clause, because Darkrai just became 800 times more annoying, honestly. It's either, priority, sleep talk or status for slower Pokemons, or just phasing. It's problematic when Darkrai comes in on a slower Pokemon, because when you switch out, they can just make the assumingly faster switch-in fall asleep. SO AGGGGhhhh

    Or maybe I just suck at ubers

    *insert okay face*
    If you are asking me about my favorite pokemon in Ubers, it would be these two with the following sets. Like I said before, I love using the six 100 based pokemon in Ubers.

    Shaymin-Sky @ Life Orb
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature
    - Substitute
    - Earth Power
    - Air Slash
    - Giga Drain

    Got a problem with darkrai? For me, he is the one who kills every member of my team (it has every member of the 100 based pokes). But shaymin at her Sky forme, give her a substitute, dark void, phah! I mean, even if both Darkrai and Skymin are Jolly 252 in speed, Shaymin outspeeds him. Sorry darkrai, but you bullied my. Shaymin. I know you are a naughty poke. But ... sick Darkrai my girl!

    Manaphy @ Leftovers
    Trait: Hydration
    EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 SAtk
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam
    - Energy Ball


    For me, I don't know what can shatter Kyogre's pride as the King of Ubers? Being owned by Palkia most of the time? Or his son, Prince Manaphy, defeating the God of the Ocean? I'd say the latter! Doesn't that make you sad Kyogre? Cause that is for murdering my 8 year old self in Pokemon Sapphire! I'm Manaphy's father now! the set is of course obvious. Do I have to tell? See the Pokemon of the Week site channel.

    Maybe I should comment on the other Ubers later on
    Final Chapter: 38: Mountain's Edge(Click the Banner above)

  12. #12

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    Actually, this is all it takes to shatter Kyogre's unwarranted pride as the False King of Übers.

    Anyway, here are my overall favorite Pokémon in Übers:



    Hyōrinmaru (Kyurem-White) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Turboblaze
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Draco Meteor
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Fusion Flare
    - Ice Beam

    Choice Specs Kyurem-W is easily the best and deadliest special attacking dragon in the game, as with its Same Type Attack Bonus Ice Beam, it can blast a hole straight through Arceus-Grass, a Pokémon that walls just about every other dragon in the rain, as well as Multiscale Lugia, one of the best general dragon counters in the game. Additionally, because of Ice Beam, Kyurem-W can easily vaporize any slower dragon without having to worry about a potential Ferrothorn switch-in, unlike other special attacking dragons which need to contemplate between using a Dragon-type move and a Fire-type move, since Choice Specs Ice Beam easily eliminates Ferrothorn in two hits. Choice Specs Ice Beam also fells offensive Kyogre in three hits, meaning Kyurem-W often does not need to predict even when facing the very common Kyogre/Ferrothorn/Giratina core! Choice Specs Kyurem-W is one of the most dangerous offensive threats in the tier, being even more dangerous than Choice Specs Kyogre in my opinion, as while Kyogre's rain-boosted Water Spout is significantly more powerful than Kyurem-W's Draco Meteor, not only does Water have worse coverage than Dragon, but Kyurem-W also has the aforementioned incredibly dangerous Same Type Attack Bonus Ice Beam as well as a potentially Sun-boosted Fusion Flare (which notably has perfect neutral coverage with Draco Meteor) for coverage moves, whereas Kyogre's coverage moves are Ice Beam and Thunder, neither of which it receives Same Type Attack Bonus for and do not provide as good coverage.

    While many people opt for Focus Blast as Kyurem-W's last move, I personally dislike Focus Blast's frustrating accuracy and situational use, and much prefer Dragon Pulse, as I find that situations in which Kyurem-W would need to use a Dragon-type move without lowering its own Special Attack to be surprisingly common. For example, I have often found my Kyurem-W against a Kyogre within Dragon Pulse KO range (but not within Ice Beam KO range), while the opponent has a Giratina-A and an Arceus within Dragon Pulse KO range (but not the KO range of a -2 Draco Meteor) in their team.

    Another common choice involving Kyurem-W that I don't really see the point of is the use of its Choice Scarf set, as it is way too weak in my opinion. If I want a Choice Scarf dragon, I'd much rather use Reshiram in a Sun team, and while I have expressed my dislike of using Choice Scarf Palkia before, I'd much rather use it in a rain team, due to their powerful weather-boosted attacks, which are basically as strong as Choice Specs attacks. And of course, this is not even beginning to touch on the fact that every Choice Scarf Pokémon in Übers already faces massive competition from Terrakion and Genesect anyway, as there is actually more incentive to slap a Choice Scarf on these two Pokémon than just the fact that most teams need a general revenge-killer.



    The Prisoner (Kyurem-W) @ White Herb
    Trait: Turboblaze
    EVs: 80 Def / 212 SAtk / 216 Spd
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - AncientPower
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Fusion Flare
    - Ice Beam

    Not only is this an excellent Shell Smash recipient that can blast its way through both Lugia and Skarmory while at +2 without needing Stealth Rock (which is not always easy for a SmashPass team to set up, since the turns spent setting up entry hazards also serve as turns on which the opponent can set up just the single layer of hazard necessary to ruin Smeargle's Focus Sash), but its enormous Special Attack combined with its access to a Same Type Attack Bonus Ice Beam to smite Groudon, as well as as a Turboblaze-enhanced Fusion Flare to incinerate Forretress, Skarmory and Ferrothorn makes it an excellent Pokémon for keeping entry hazards off the field at the beginning of a battle, which is absolutely crucial for a SmashPass team. All of its moves except for Ancientpower are self-explanatory, and Ancientpower is used as it is the only move in Kyurem-W's arsenal besides Hidden Power [Rock] that, after a Shell Smash boost, can KO Ho-Oh in a single hit. And the move's 10% chance of raising all stats is not only incredibly awesome when added on top of a Shell Smash boost, but as unreliable as it may be, it can also be a lifesaver and secondary win condition in some desperate situations, such as if the opponent somehow gets entry hazards on the field and prevent one's Smeargle from Baton Passing a Shell Smash, since a Kyurem-W with all of its stats raised by one level is a frightening sweeper.

    Credits for the EV spread go to Sasha the Master, one of the two leaders of the highly reputable Masters clan. 80 Defense allows Kyurem-W to survive two unboosted hits from an Adamant Silk Scarf Arceus's ExtremeSpeed, 216 Speed allows it to outrun all Pokémon with base 90 Speed, 252 EVs in Speed as well as a neutral Nature for Speed, and the rest of the EVs are thrown into its Special Attack. At +2 Special Attack, this Kyurem-W has a 75% chance of destroying a 4 HP Arceus with a single neutral Sun-boosted Fusion Flare, while this KO becomes guaranteed after just a single layer of Spikes.



    Apollo (Reshiram) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Turboblaze
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Blue Flare
    - Draco Meteor
    - Outrage
    - Stone Edge

    Reshiram is, in my opinion, one of the best Choice Scarf holders in the entire Übers metagame, assuming it is used in a Sun team. While enjoying the 1.5x Speed boost of a Choice Scarf, its devastating Sun-boosted Blue Flare is almost as strong as most other Über dragons' Choice Specs Draco Meteor and Kyogre's Choice Scarf Water Spout, allowing it to outrun and KO a myriad of Pokémon including offensive Dialga, Kyurem-W, Groudon, Mewtwo and Darkrai in one hit, while heavily damaging many others, including the likes of Arceus and Multiscale Lugia. And in addition to the fact that Reshiram also has Blue Flare paired with Draco Meteor to give it absolutely unresisted coverage with its Same Type Attack Bonus moves alone, Blue Flare's power does not diminish with every use or with the user's HP like Draco Meteor and Water Spout respectively, making it an excellent lategame sweeper, as it can destroy multiple slower Pokémon without a resistance to Fire in succession, with Blue Flare's power remaining completely unfazed even as it tanks an Arceus-Normal's ExtremeSpeed in the process, something that would surely put a halt to a Choice Scarf Kyogre's Water Spout sweep. Stone Edge is to crush Ho-Oh, one of the most common switch-ins against Reshiram, and Outrage is just used to revenge-kill Latias from full-health, something that can be quite necessary in some desperate situations from my experience. A Speed-raising Nature is used to maximize the number of Pokémon Reshiram can revenge-kill, and since it utilizes two physical attacks, Timid is out of the question, especially since Timid Reshiram with 4 Attack EVs cannot KO a 252 HP Ho-Oh with one Stone Edge. Despite Smogon's Reshiram analysis recommending Hasty (or Mild) for Choice Scarf Reshiram, I personally prefer Naive. Why? Because not only does it guarantee that Reshiram survives a +2 ExtremeSpeed from a non-Life Orb or Silk Scarf Adamant Arceus, but it even allows Reshiram a small chance to survive a Silk Scarf Adamant Arceus's +2 ExtremeSpeed!

  13. #13
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    Why is blaziken an urber?



        Spoiler:- Credit + Claims:
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  14. #14

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    Blaziken is Über because the Smogon community mistakenly believes that it, along with every single Pokémon currently in the Übers tier is too powerful to be allowed in the standard (OU) metagame, when in fact the only one of such Pokémon that would be too powerful is Arceus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PokéMaster Forever View Post
    Blaziken is Über because the Smogon community mistakenly believes that it, along with every single Pokémon currently in the Übers tier is too powerful to be allowed in the standard (OU) metagame, when in fact the only one of such Pokémon that would be too powerful is Arceus.
    Blaziken is NOT to powerful.a good psychic attack would probably OH-KO



        Spoiler:- Credit + Claims:
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  16. #16

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    Actually, Blaziken was too powerful for the OU metagame... after Smogon had already banned many Pokémon, including every cover legendary at the time barring Suicune, from it (something they should not have done in the first place, but what can we expect from them?), and therefore lowering the average power level of the Pokémon in the OU metagame to the point where a Pokémon of Blaziken's level managed to dominate and overcentralize it.

    Speaking of Blaziken, what is your favorite moveset for it? Mine is:



    Blaziken (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Speed Boost
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Flare Blitz
    - Low Kick
    - Protect
    - Swords Dance

    I've never really used Blaziken much myself in Übers (I've used it plenty of times in OU back when it was allowed though), so I can't really give comments about it that are too in-depth for this tier, but while people have used numerous viable Blaziken sets, such as Roar and all-out attacking, I most prefer its most standard and straightforward set. Yeah, it's hard to get past Giratina with it, and Arceus's ExtremeSpeed revenge-kills it easily, but with these Pokémon out of the way, it is an incredibly dangerous sweeper especially in the Sun.

    Low Kick is used over Hi Jump Kick in order to avoid the move's devastating recoil if it happens to miss or land on a Ghost-type Pokémon. Since most Pokémon in Übers are very heavy, Low Kick hits most of them for only 10 less base power than Hi Jump Kick anyway, and although this allows Blaziken to be walled by Manaphy in the rain, I do not think that Manaphy is generally common enough to give up on all of Low Kick's benefits over Hi Jump Kick.

  17. #17
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    I know how Arceus is obviously the GOD OF GODS! I just find him too overrated with justified reasons. Don't get me wrong, I've faced like 10 of the 17 types that Arceus used so far. It's why I find Manaphy much more fun to Overthrow Kyogre. The reason I skipped Arceus, because, for me, Arceus is the Center of Ubers with only (I guess) Kyogre competing with him as King of Ubers.

    I mean, I want to ask you something. Does my team set for Ubers just terrible to use? Cause if it is, maybe you don't want me to lose a lot with this team that I've used for the past 4 months. I had losses and Achievements with this team casuse they're my pride on fun battles. Rarely on the competitive. Believe it or not, this team let me climb up in ubers in the 1600 ranks at one point. not bad huh. and I'm not Peaing the ladder

        Spoiler:- See if only wanted:


    Back on topic, I'm recently having Interest in using Reshiram, Zekrom, and the Lati Twins in Ubers so far: moreso to Reshiram. All four are popular from what I know as they can fend themselves from certain pokemon that my Cute little legendary team (sets posted on the spoilers) could do. Ferrothorn, Ho-oh, Lugia, and Kyogre.

    But ... if I were to keep 4 of my previous team members, I would have to replace Mew and Victini with any of the four dragons.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minedreigon View Post
    Blaziken is NOT to powerful.a good psychic attack would probably OH-KO
    That's not a good argument at all...A good Dark attack would probably OHKO Mewtwo, a STAB Electric attack would probably OHKO Kyogre as well. Any strong SE STAB attack will probably OHKO. The reason it went Ubers is because it has very few checks and counters, which are extremely easy to play around. He was a Pokemon that took little skill to use effectively therefor making him broken in the OU metagame. And the reason he went Uber is because his DW ability speed boost pushed him over the edge. He also has two extremely high powered STAB moves. I'd actually like to see him tested again, along with Tornadus-T because i feel having them in the same metagame could balance it out some. Also, I feel Blazi wouldn't be too hard to handle now with Scarf Keldeo outspeeding at +1, and Gyarados becoming popular. Landorus-T could also be a solid counter to him with rain up. I'd like to at least try retesting him in OU, and if it works then keep him, but if it doesn't, get him out again.

    Quote Originally Posted by PokéMaster Forever
    Blaziken is Über because the Smogon community mistakenly believes that it, along with every single Pokémon currently in the Übers tier is too powerful to be allowed in the standard (OU) metagame, when in fact the only one of such Pokémon that would be too powerful is Arceus.
    Although this, sadly, isn't the definition of Ubers, I like to think of it as the standard tier rather than a banlist, since the "banlist" term started when there were only two Ubers, but now there's so many it should be considered the standard tier rather than OU, which should be considered like UU, RU, etc are. The reason I feel this way is because, if like you said, we legalized Ubers bar Arceus in OU, then the majority of OU would drop to UU, UU to RU, and so on. The main thing about Arceus, in my opinion, is people just come so damn under prepared for it, then go on and on about how broken it is when it sweeps their team. I'm not saying its bad, because it sure as hell isn't, and it deserves its place as the top threat, but you always see people remember to bring 3 pokes to handle rain (Kyogre), or vis versa if you're running rain, but so many people only run 1, sometimes 2 things to handle Arceus, when they should be running 1 or 2 counters, and 1 or 2 checks to it, just like they do for Rain. If you're team is prepared enough to face it, whether you're running Sableye, Scarf Terrakion, etc, it really isn't more of a problem than Specs Kyogre, or Arceus's brother from another mother Ghost-Arceus (which imo is much more threatening and easier to set-up than Extremekiller, since people prepare for it even less than Extremekiller)

    Quote Originally Posted by PokéMaster Forever View Post
    Actually, Blaziken was too powerful for the OU metagame... after Smogon had already banned many Pokémon, including every cover legendary at the time barring Suicune, from it (something they should not have done in the first place, but what can we expect from them?), and therefore lowering the average power level of the Pokémon in the OU metagame to the point where a Pokémon of Blaziken's level managed to dominate and overcentralize it.

    Speaking of Blaziken, what is your favorite moveset for it? Mine is:



    Blaziken (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Speed Boost
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Flare Blitz
    - Low Kick
    - Protect
    - Swords Dance

    I've never really used Blaziken much myself in Übers (I've used it plenty of times in OU back when it was allowed though), so I can't really give comments about it that are too in-depth for this tier, but while people have used numerous viable Blaziken sets, such as Roar and all-out attacking, I most prefer its most standard and straightforward set. Yeah, it's hard to get past Giratina with it, and Arceus's ExtremeSpeed revenge-kills it easily, but with these Pokémon out of the way, it is an incredibly dangerous sweeper especially in the Sun.

    Low Kick is used over Hi Jump Kick in order to avoid the move's devastating recoil if it happens to miss or land on a Ghost-type Pokémon. Since most Pokémon in Übers are very heavy, Low Kick hits most of them for only 10 less base power than Hi Jump Kick anyway, and although this allows Blaziken to be walled by Manaphy in the rain, I do not think that Manaphy is generally common enough to give up on all of Low Kick's benefits over Hi Jump Kick.
    I run pretty much the same set, except with Substitute over Protect, since Blazi already outspeeds many things in Ubers, and they opponent will more than likely switch out predicting a protect to get the advantage, but you're setting up a sub so you can get a quick +2 +2.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by PokéMaster Forever View Post
    Speaking of Blaziken, what is your favorite moveset for it? Mine is:



    Blaziken (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Speed Boost
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Flare Blitz
    - Low Kick
    - Protect
    - Swords Dance

    I've never really used Blaziken much myself in Übers (I've used it plenty of times in OU back when it was allowed though), so I can't really give comments about it that are too in-depth for this tier, but while people have used numerous viable Blaziken sets, such as Roar and all-out attacking, I most prefer its most standard and straightforward set. Yeah, it's hard to get past Giratina with it, and Arceus's ExtremeSpeed revenge-kills it easily, but with these Pokémon out of the way, it is an incredibly dangerous sweeper especially in the Sun.

    Low Kick is used over Hi Jump Kick in order to avoid the move's devastating recoil if it happens to miss or land on a Ghost-type Pokémon. Since most Pokémon in Übers are very heavy, Low Kick hits most of them for only 10 less base power than Hi Jump Kick anyway, and although this allows Blaziken to be walled by Manaphy in the rain, I do not think that Manaphy is generally common enough to give up on all of Low Kick's benefits over Hi Jump Kick.
    Hmm, I've never used Blaziken before, and this set seems interesting. Does Low kick OHKO extremekiller Arceus?

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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bolt View Post
    Hmm, I've never used Blaziken before, and this set seems interesting. Does Low kick OHKO extremekiller Arceus?
    Probably doesn't matter when Extremekiller Arceus more than likely OHKO's with Extreme Speed.

  21. #21

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    An unboosted Silk Scarf ExtremeSpeed from Arceus-Normal only deals 72.52% - 85.43% damage to the Blaziken I posted.

    Quote Originally Posted by jireh the provider View Post
    I know how Arceus is obviously the GOD OF GODS! I just find him too overrated with justified reasons. Don't get me wrong, I've faced like 10 of the 17 types that Arceus used so far. It's why I find Manaphy much more fun to Overthrow Kyogre. The reason I skipped Arceus, because, for me, Arceus is the Center of Ubers with only (I guess) Kyogre competing with him as King of Ubers.

    I mean, I want to ask you something. Does my team set for Ubers just terrible to use? Cause if it is, maybe you don't want me to lose a lot with this team that I've used for the past 4 months. I had losses and Achievements with this team casuse they're my pride on fun battles. Rarely on the competitive. Believe it or not, this team let me climb up in ubers in the 1600 ranks at one point. not bad huh. and I'm not Peaing the ladder

        Spoiler:- See if only wanted:


    Back on topic, I'm recently having Interest in using Reshiram, Zekrom, and the Lati Twins in Ubers so far: moreso to Reshiram. All four are popular from what I know as they can fend themselves from certain pokemon that my Cute little legendary team (sets posted on the spoilers) could do. Ferrothorn, Ho-oh, Lugia, and Kyogre.

    But ... if I were to keep 4 of my previous team members, I would have to replace Mew and Victini with any of the four dragons.
    Interesting team. I am certain that I have battled it a few times on Pokémon Showdown!. Unfortunately, I definitely cannot say that that is a good team in Übers since its members are just not strong enough to compete with most of the Pokémon in that tier to be able to win consistently, and I also cannot agree that getting to 1600 points on Pokémon Showdown! is "not bad" (it would be an entirely different story if we were talking about Pokémon Online though), especially given that the vast majority of trainers on the lower rungs of the ladder are not very skilled. I hope that this does not discourage you from using that team though, especially since you clearly like it a lot. After all, Pokémon is ultimately just a game to have fun, and I am sure that you greatly enjoy using that team, even if it may not be the most successful team in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Contrail View Post
    Although this, sadly, isn't the definition of Ubers, I like to think of it as the standard tier rather than a banlist, since the "banlist" term started when there were only two Ubers, but now there's so many it should be considered the standard tier rather than OU, which should be considered like UU, RU, etc are. The reason I feel this way is because, if like you said, we legalized Ubers bar Arceus in OU, then the majority of OU would drop to UU, UU to RU, and so on. The main thing about Arceus, in my opinion, is people just come so damn under prepared for it, then go on and on about how broken it is when it sweeps their team. I'm not saying its bad, because it sure as hell isn't, and it deserves its place as the top threat, but you always see people remember to bring 3 pokes to handle rain (Kyogre), or vis versa if you're running rain, but so many people only run 1, sometimes 2 things to handle Arceus, when they should be running 1 or 2 counters, and 1 or 2 checks to it, just like they do for Rain. If you're team is prepared enough to face it, whether you're running Sableye, Scarf Terrakion, etc, it really isn't more of a problem than Specs Kyogre, or Arceus's brother from another mother Ghost-Arceus (which imo is much more threatening and easier to set-up than Extremekiller, since people prepare for it even less than Extremekiller)
    Actually, putting aside the fact that many people mistakenly believe themselves to have Arceus-Normal countered just because they have a Will-O-Wisp user in their team, people generally do not underprepare for Arceus-Normal at all, as it is widely considered to be one of the few Pokémon for which one absolutely must have a solid check (and in my opinion, it is the only Pokémon in Übers for which one must have a solid check, because unlike every single other Pokémon in the game (which can still be more or less played around after their checks and counters are defeated), Arceus-Normal pretty much guarantees victory if it somehow gets past its checks and/or counters, whether it be by weakening the opponent's Terrakion/Skarmory down to the KO range of a +2 ExtremeSpeed/Brick Break, critical hitting the opponent's Dragon Tail Giratina-O with a +2 Shadow Claw, and things like that).

    Also, just because a Pokémon ceases to be very threatening in a metagame if everyone prepares well for it does not mean that said Pokémon is not broken, as in order to make said Pokémon not very threatening in the first place, the process of team building becomes so restricted to the point where it becomes less creative and enjoyable, while the entire metagame becomes completely warped and centralized around said Pokémon. In OU, Excadrill was "not very threatening" since most good teams had a Gliscor to completely counter it, but this does not change the way Excadrill had completely warped the metagame as well as the very process of team building.

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bolt View Post
    Hmm, I've never used Blaziken before, and this set seems interesting. Does Low kick OHKO extremekiller Arceus?
    Jolly Blaziken's Life Orb Low Kick is guaranteed to KO a 4 HP Arceus-Normal in one hit, but it only has a 56.25% chance of taking a 252 HP Arceus-Normal down in one hit. Although said 56.25% becomes 100% after the opponent's Arceus-Normal has taken just one round of Stealth Rock damage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PokéMaster Forever View Post
    An unboosted Silk Scarf ExtremeSpeed from Arceus-Normal only deals 72.52% - 85.43% damage to the Blaziken I posted.



    Interesting team. I am certain that I have battled it a few times on Pokémon Showdown!. Unfortunately, I definitely cannot say that that is a good team in Übers since its members are just not strong enough to compete with most of the Pokémon in that tier to be able to win consistently, and I also cannot agree that getting to 1600 points on Pokémon Showdown! is "not bad" (it would be an entirely different story if we were talking about Pokémon Online though), especially given that the vast majority of trainers on the lower rungs of the ladder are not very skilled. I hope that this does not discourage you from using that team though, especially since you clearly like it a lot. After all, Pokémon is ultimately just a game to have fun, and I am sure that you greatly enjoy using that team, even if it may not be the most successful team in the world.



    Actually, putting aside the fact that many people mistakenly believe themselves to have Arceus-Normal countered just because they have a Will-O-Wisp user in their team, people generally do not underprepare for Arceus-Normal at all, as it is widely considered to be one of the few Pokémon for which one absolutely must have a solid check (and in my opinion, it is the only Pokémon in Übers for which one must have a solid check, because unlike every single other Pokémon in the game (which can still be more or less played around after their checks and counters are defeated), Arceus-Normal pretty much guarantees victory if it somehow gets past its checks and/or counters, whether it be by weakening the opponent's Terrakion/Skarmory down to the KO range of a +2 ExtremeSpeed/Brick Break, critical hitting the opponent's Dragon Tail Giratina-O with a +2 Shadow Claw, and things like that).

    Also, just because a Pokémon ceases to be very threatening in a metagame if everyone prepares well for it does not mean that said Pokémon is not broken, as in order to make said Pokémon not very threatening in the first place, the process of team building becomes so restricted to the point where it becomes less creative and enjoyable, while the entire metagame becomes completely warped and centralized around said Pokémon. In OU, Excadrill was "not very threatening" since most good teams had a Gliscor to completely counter it, but this does not change the way Excadrill had completely warped the metagame as well as the very process of team building.



    Jolly Blaziken's Life Orb Low Kick is guaranteed to KO a 4 HP Arceus-Normal in one hit, but it only has a 56.25% chance of taking a 252 HP Arceus-Normal down in one hit. Although said 56.25% becomes 100% after the opponent's Arceus-Normal has taken just one round of Stealth Rock damage.
    I now understand why blaziken is an uber.



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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by PokéMaster Forever View Post
    Interesting team. I am certain that I have battled it a few times on Pokémon Showdown!. Unfortunately, I definitely cannot say that that is a good team in Übers since its members are just not strong enough to compete with most of the Pokémon in that tier to be able to win consistently, and I also cannot agree that getting to 1600 points on Pokémon Showdown! is "not bad" (it would be an entirely different story if we were talking about Pokémon Online though), especially given that the vast majority of trainers on the lower rungs of the ladder are not very skilled. I hope that this does not discourage you from using that team though, especially since you clearly like it a lot. After all, Pokémon is ultimately just a game to have fun, and I am sure that you greatly enjoy using that team, even if it may not be the most successful team in the world.
    The 1600 thing is in Pokemon Showdown I forgot to include. But yes, I remember using Jirachi to single handedly KO an Arceus ghost from an experienced player on PS. But I can share that I've experimented with victini + Focus Sash to Lure Arceus Normal. Guess what, I made the enemy think that he can just set up (most likely 2 swords dances / or ones so far) on my victini while I do some damage with zen headbutt twice/ once and finish him with V create as it Extremely kills me ... except that I just lived with the sash and finished him. Its in clear weather if I recall. So now. I find Victini as currently my best lead next to Shaymin sky and Mew. Seems they never expect a focus sash victini at all from what I know so far. Nice to bluff a choice Item on kyogre and hurt him with bolt strike
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    Quote Originally Posted by jireh the provider View Post
    The 1600 thing is in Pokemon Showdown I forgot to include. But yes, I remember using Jirachi to single handedly KO an Arceus ghost from an experienced player on PS. But I can share that I've experimented with victini + Focus Sash to Lure Arceus Normal. Guess what, I made the enemy think that he can just set up (most likely 2 swords dances / or ones so far) on my victini while I do some damage with zen headbutt twice/ once and finish him with V create as it Extremely kills me ... except that I just lived with the sash and finished him. Its in clear weather if I recall. So now. I find Victini as currently my best lead next to Shaymin sky and Mew. Seems they never expect a focus sash victini at all from what I know so far. Nice to bluff a choice Item on kyogre and hurt him with bolt strike
    Sadly it all goes down the toilet if they set up any hazards :/ and i fail to see how in the name of all things good that Jirachi set beat an "experienced player's" Ghost-Arceus...

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by PokéMaster Forever View Post
    Blaziken is Über because the Smogon community mistakenly believes that it, along with every single Pokémon currently in the Übers tier is too powerful to be allowed in the standard (OU) metagame, when in fact the only one of such Pokémon that would be too powerful is Arceus.
    Well, pardon me if not every player wants OU to turn into a non-Arceus Ubers. Don't pretend that most (if not all) of those 670+ BST Pokemon aren't on a level of their own when compared to most of the other Pokemon in the game.

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