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Thread: Community POTW #127

  1. #26
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    May 2010
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    Physical Set
    Intimidate w/ Muscle Band/Life Orb/Leftovers
    Adamant w/ 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 6 HP
    Flare Blitz/Flame Charge
    Wild Charge
    Close Combat
    Outrage/Crunch

    Countering
    High Defense pokemon with Water/Ground/Rock-type moves like Solid Rock Rhyperior or Slowbro (espically in case of burn-based users).
    Last edited by sbktdreed; 9th June 2013 at 4:22 AM. Reason: Based on recent posts.
    Got Pokémon X. Intend to get either Omega Ruby or Alpha Sapphire.
    No info about my Friend Safari.
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  2. #27
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    Should we really list OU pokemon as counters when this mon has no place in OU whatsoever?
    Guns don't kill people. I kill people.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Potato View Post
    Should we really list OU pokemon as counters when this mon has no place in OU whatsoever?
    He always does that, as well as listing things that are literally never used for a good reason (Ancientpower Omastar??? Ancientpower on anything??? Rock Tomb Spiritomb? Is that a bad pun, or are you serious?)


    Also, I forgot to mention that a Specs set can be really fun with Flamethrower, Hidden Power (Ice), Overheat, and some filler move like Solarbeam or something. Really, it's not fun, I'm just avoiding an infraction.


    You can shoot my body full of holes but ya can't kill the spirit of Rock N' Roll, baby! \m/

  4. #29
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    May 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Retribution View Post
    He always does that, as well as listing things that are literally never used for a good reason (Ancientpower Omastar??? Ancientpower on anything??? Rock Tomb Spiritomb? Is that a bad pun, or are you serious?)


    Also, I forgot to mention that a Specs set can be really fun with Flamethrower, Hidden Power (Ice), Overheat, and some filler move like Solarbeam or something. Really, it's not fun, I'm just avoiding an infraction.
    #1- I only listed Ancientpower Omastar because of STAB bonus and the chance of raising all of its stats; espically its defenses. I already removed the Ancientpower option.
    #2- I only listed Rock Tomb Spiritomb because of high defense and Rock Tomb is one of the only moves that Spritomb knows that is Arcanine is weak against. Also, Rock Tomb can slow down Arcanine and Extremespeed is useless against it. I already removed it.
    #3-As for the remianing pokemon I listed, I bold the ones that are in the same UU tier as Arcanine; according to Smogon.
    Last edited by sbktdreed; 8th June 2013 at 4:03 AM. Reason: I left out some stuff.
    Got Pokémon X. Intend to get either Omega Ruby or Alpha Sapphire.
    No info about my Friend Safari.
    Vivillon Pattern: Polar
    Looking for nicknamed, shiny, and/or have a hidden ability in GTS and may battle at anytime.
    If interested, send a private message with your ID #.

  5. #30
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    Jun 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbktdreed View Post
    Physical Set
    Intimidate/Justified w/ Muscle Band/Life Orb/Leftovers
    Adamant w/ 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 6 HP
    Flare Blitz/Flame Charge/Flame Wheel
    Thunder Fang/Wild Charge
    Close Combat
    Aerial Ace/Outrage/Crunch

    Partners
    Beat Up-users for Justified users
    Lava Plume-users for Flash Fire users
    Helping Hand-users

    Countering
    High Defense pokemon with Water/Ground/Rock-type moves like Aggron, Earthquake Dusknoir/Gliscor/Hippowdon, Solid Rock Rhyperior/Carracosta, Gigalith, Crabhammer Kingler, Head Smash Scrafty, Kabutops, Huntail, Armaldo, or Feraligatr.
    Slowbro, Wash Rotom, Earth Power Omastar, and Gorebyss are also included; in case of burn-based users.
    First off, why even list Aerial Ace as an option on Arcanine when almost any Fire move that Arcanine runs will do more damage (and if you're going to argue the accuracy portion, in most competitive play evasion boosting moves are banned anyhow thus making it useless), especially when you could be running the much more useful Extremespeed. Flame Wheel and Thunder Fang aren't even worth consideration unless you're running a Choice Band set (and even then they're still pretty useless), as even though they have no recoil, the damage they deal out is very inconsequential and can even leave Arcanine in a worse position than it would already be in as it cannot even get close to KOing many of the Pokemon it can with Flare Blitz and Wild Charge, while those same Pokemon would KO Arcanine in return, and thus recoil isn't that bad of an option. Moving onto items, Muscle Band only gives a 10% increase to physical damage, leaving it often outclassed by items like Expert Belt (which boosts by 20%) and Life Orb (which boosts by 30%), and although is less situational than Expert Belt and doesn't have recoil like Life Orb, the boost in power in most situations is barley noticeable, being around a 3%-6% addition on anything you're not hitting for super effective damage.

    For partners, using Beat Up on a Justified Arcanine is generally a terrible idea, as 1) it is outclassed by Pokemon in its own tier such as Cobalion in this role, 2) Arcanine does not have the bulk to handle getting Beat Up used on it and 3) Partners section doesn't solely encompass Doubles play (which you would notice if you read POTW), it means Pokemon that work well with Arcanine in Singles, while the Double and Triple Battle section handles this sort of thing. I don't see why Lava Plume would be the only option for Fire type users to use on Flash Fire Arcanine, which once again it is outclassed by Pokemon in its own tier like Chandelure who has much higher power to take advantage of the boost, although hardly anyone uses this strategy. Helping Hand is also as noted earlier a Doubles strategy and doesn't apply to the Partners section, and even in Doubles Arcanine is still outclassed in general as a Physical Fire type by Darmanitan.

    Moving onto your counters, I agree with Divine Retribution's post that just because Pokemon have a move that can hit Arcanine super effectively does not make them a Counter or even a Check to it. For example:

    252+ Atk Life Orb Arcanine Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Omastar: 273-322 (97.15 - 114.59%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO

    This is against offensive Omastar (the main one that would even consider using Ancientpower/Earth Power) which is very likely to be OHKO'd by Arcanine, meaning it definitely does not work as a counter or as a check to it, in addition to the fact that Water moves are super effective against Arcanine which 1) get a STAB boost, unlike Earth Power, 2) in Surf and Hydro Pump's case are stronger than Ancientpower and Earth Power even without the STAB boost and 3) even in Sun, Hydro Pump only does 1% less damage than Earth Power, making the move pretty much useless to run over something else that Omastar needs.

    252+ Atk Life Orb Arcanine Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spiritomb: 169-200 (55.59 - 65.78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    This is obviously against fully defensive Spiritomb, showing that it is 2HKO'd by Flare Blitz from Arcanine, meaning it definitely isn't a counter to it, and defensiveTomb at best 3HKOs in return with Dark Pulse, with Rock Tomb doing 21.82 - 25.95% if it hits, meaning any STAB move off of Spiritomb will be doing more, especially off of offensive Spiritomb (which by the way takes 77.22 - 91.41%, meaning with Stealth Rock up it can be OHKO'd). This shows once again that just because a Pokemon has a weak coverage move that does super effective damage, it does not mean that it is even remotely close to being a counter.

    Onto your revised list of counters. The first part of the list is pretty vague, though you have the right idea, as high defense Water types like Swampert, Milotic, etc do very well against Arcanine, though Rock types generally have trouble with Close Combat, and Ground types have to have some dual typing to be able to survive in most cases. Aggron however is a pretty bad example as it is 4x weak to Close Combat, and is OHKO'd even with full defensive investment (but fortunately Sturdy keeps it alive), meaning that it can't switch in and you basically have to sacrifice it in order to beat Arcanine anyhow. Earthquake Dusknoir is another example of what I was talking about before (super effective coverage doesn't make a counter), as it is 2HKO'd by Flare Blitz (meaning no switch in), is slower than Arcanine (meaning if it does switch in, it gets KO'd before it can do anything), and Earthquake only does 51.32 - 60.76% off of defensive Dusknoir (and even with full Attack investment it doesn't OHKO), basically showing that Dusknoir will not beat Arcanine. Gliscor and Hippowdon aren't and shouldn't be considered for the POTW because POTW only deals with Pokemon that can be in Arcanine's tier, and as both of those Pokemon are OU, they can't and won't be considered as counters. Rhyperior is a decent check to Arcanine, but only if it comes in after something else has been KO'd, as even the tank Rhyperior set is 2HKO'd. This means that Rhyperior has to come in after something dies to scare out Arcanine or OHKO it if it stays in, although if it does you lose a bit more than half your HP. Carracosta is outclassed in UU by Omastar, as well as having to be fully Defensive to manage to beat Arcanine. Gigalith is 2HKO'd by Arcanine, and is outclassed in UU by Rhyperior. Kingler has a high chance of being OHKO'd, and is OHKO'd if it has any previous damage (say from Stealth Rock), and suffers from the same problem that Gigalith does (mainly that it's outclassed and not that great of a Pokemon in general). Scrafty is OHKO'd by Close Combat, meaning it definitely isn't a counter or a check (although you are right that it is in the same tier lol). Kabutops (unless some weird Defensive version) is OHKO'd, Huntail has a high chance of being OHKO'd and is OHKO'd with previous damage, Armaldo is 2HKO'd or OHKO"d with Stealth Rock damage and only has around a 50% chance of OHKOing in return, and Feraligatr is 2HKO'd or OHKO'd with Stealth Rocks up. Slowbro is a decent check, though it has a chance of being 2HKO'd with previous damage, and can only 2HKO in return, meaning it has to worry about switching in. Rotom-Wash is in the same category as Gliscor and Hippowdon as it is an OU Pokemon and thus wouldn't even be considered for POTW counters for Arcanine. Gorebyss is in the same boat as Huntail, being very likely OHKO'd with a guaranteed OHKO if there's previous damage. Note that this all only applies to the Life Orb set, with sets with Intimidate or Choice Band being better able to handle a lot of these "threats."

    Thusly for you tl;dr people, Muscle Band is outclassed, Flame Wheel and Thunder Fang don't do enough damage to be worth it, Aerial Ace gives redundant coverage and is weak, the partners section doesn't apply to the POTW partners as well as not being that good to use, Rhyperior and Slowbro are the only 2 Pokemon remotely close to being counters on his list (as well as his general defensive Waters statement), with the rest either being outclassed by something in UU or (in the case of most of his counters) are OHKO'd by Arcanine.

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  6. #31
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    Jul 2011
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    Miror has no life

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