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Thread: Fairy-type Discussion Thread

  1. #3851
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    Weak to Poison? Hell yeah that sounds good to me!


  2. #3852
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    I want a poison/fairy type just because I love poison types and I feel like a poison/fairy type 'mon will get much love. here's to hoping spritzee evolves into a plagued fairy!
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  3. #3853
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakurai View Post
    The only non-offensive Dark move that gets much use competitively is Taunt, and even then, its uses are so situational that it's not very common at all. If Fairy resists it, it's going to be bad against four different types, but only effective against two, which makes it comparable to the Steel type offensively (And possibly worse now that Steel is likely to be effective against Fairy).

    Fairy should be either neutral or weak against Dark. It doesn't need to have even resistances and weaknesses to be effective, especially if it's going to be immune to one of the most powerful types in the game, which is enough of a reason to use it as is.
    Smogon begs to differ:

    http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue7/type_analysis_dark

    I never said Dark or Fairy needs to have equal weaknesses and resistances to be effective. Dark has plenty of powerful Pokemon in the metagame. Are you just worried because you have a bias towards Dark-type Pokemon (this is a serious question, I'm not trying to insult or anything)?
    Last edited by cmats4020; 19th July 2013 at 3:09 AM.

  4. #3854
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmats4020 View Post
    Smogon begs to differ:

    http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue7/type_analysis_dark

    I never said Dark or Fairy needs to have equal weaknesses and resistances to be effective. Dark has plenty of powerful Pokemon in the metagame. Are you just worried because you have a bias towards Dark-type Pokemon (this is a serious question, I'm not trying to insult or anything)?
    Speaking as someone whose favourite type is Dark, and would rather it didn't get a weakness, I wouldn't be upset if it did end up being weak to Fairy. Three weakness is not that many, and most of the Pokemon I use are dual-typed and have three or more weaknesses, so it wouldn't make much of a difference to me. Besides, if I remember correctly, Bug is only really a problem when against Scizor, Yanmega, Volcarona, Heracross, and the uncommon Galvantula, Scolipede, and Samurott. Additionally, as long as you're playing right, U-Turn shouldn't be much of a problem. Fighting is the only real threat for Dark-types since they are much more common and moves are more widespread than Bug. All in all, I don't think giving Dark another weakness is as big a problem as others say it is.
    Last edited by bolter1; 19th July 2013 at 5:31 AM.

  5. #3855
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    Not to sound biased or anything, but I really hope that Dark isn't weak to Fairy. Here is a comparison to Electric to prove my point

    Electric:
    SE against: 2
    Resisted by: 3
    Weak to: 1
    Resists: 3

    Dark:
    SE against: 2
    Resisted by: 3
    Weak to: 2
    Resists: 2

    They are both super effective against the same amount, and are resisted by the same amount of types, but Electric has less weaknesses and more resistances. I think Dark should at least resist fairy, if not be super effective against it.

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  6. #3856
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    Dark has an immunity while Electric has something immune against it, that's not a good comparison. Looking at that, it could afford another weakness, particularly since only fighting's prevalent in the metagame.


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  7. #3857
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    Added something important
    Quote Originally Posted by Yveltal96 View Post
    Electric:
    SE against: 2
    Resisted by: 3
    Weak to: 1
    Resists: 3
    Immunity:0
    Type w/ immunity to it: 1


    Dark:
    SE against: 2
    Resisted by: 3
    Weak to: 2
    Resists: 2
    Immunity: 1
    Type w/ immunity to it: 0
    Last edited by bolter1; 19th July 2013 at 6:18 AM.

  8. #3858
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yveltal96 View Post
    Not to sound biased or anything, but I really hope that Dark isn't weak to Fairy. Here is a comparison to Electric to prove my point

    Electric:
    SE against: 2
    Resisted by: 3
    Type w/Immunity to it: 1
    Weak to: 1
    Resists: 3
    Immunity: 0

    Dark:
    SE against: 2
    Resisted by: 3
    Type w/Immunity to it: 0
    Weak to: 2
    Resists: 2
    Immunity: 1

    They are both super effective against the same amount, and are resisted by the same amount of types, but Electric has less weaknesses and more resistances. I think Dark should at least resist fairy, if not be super effective against it.
    But let's compare that to types like:

    Psychic:
    SE against: 2
    Resisted by: 2
    Type w/Immunity to it: 1
    Weak to: 3
    Resists: 2
    Immunity: 0

    Ice:
    SE against: 4
    Resisted by: 4
    Type w/Immunity to it: 0
    Weak to: 4
    Resists: 1 (Itself)
    Immunity: 0

    Poison:
    SE against: 1
    Resisted by: 4
    Type w/Immunity to it: 1
    Weak to: 2
    Resists: 4
    Immunity: 0

    Grass:
    SE against: 3
    Resisted by: 7
    Type w/Immunity to it: 0
    Weak to: 5
    Resists: 4
    Immunity: 0

    Compared to these types, Dark isn't in such a bad situation. Also, Electric types have weak movepools, so Dark, in the competative scene, is way better.

    EDIT: Whoa, I'm way late in my response lol!
    Last edited by cmats4020; 19th July 2013 at 7:06 AM.

  9. #3859
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmats4020 View Post
    Smogon begs to differ:

    http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue7/type_analysis_dark

    I never said Dark or Fairy needs to have equal weaknesses and resistances to be effective. Dark has plenty of powerful Pokemon in the metagame. Are you just worried because you have a bias towards Dark-type Pokemon (this is a serious question, I'm not trying to insult or anything)?
    That article was written before the fifth gen was even released. I wouldn't be surprised if their opinion has changed since then, with the introduction of U-Turn, numerous solid Fighting type Pokemon, and an even greater distribution of Fighting type moves.

    But in any case, my reasons for not wanting it to have a weakness are partly because Dark is one of my favorite types, partly because I don't like the idea of Xerneas having a straight advantage over Yveltal, and partly because I think Umbreon having a weakness to Moonblast would be idiotic (Which is something I haven't actually seen someone contest yet).

  10. #3860
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    I can only imagine the problem that Dark-Types will have if Psychic-Types get a reliable Fairy-Type move that deals decent damage...in the situation that Dark is weak to Fairy. Regardless, I'll still use my Dark-Types.

    Steel and Poison seem like good, logical weaknesses for Fairy. Then again, this is GF. I bet that the little Fairy-Types will have a lot more SPA than ATT, simply because of their appearance, which might cause a resurgence of the fat, pink blob. Might see more proliferation of Fighting-Types is Fairy is indeed weak to Dark...
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  11. #3861
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakurai View Post
    I think Umbreon having a weakness to Moonblast would be idiotic (Which is something I haven't actually seen someone contest yet).
    Ahahahaha. Yes!

    And Dark already has a very very prominent weakness with Fighting.
    I feel Dark being flawlessly balanced as it's now.



    Fairy has to be SE against Fighting please....


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  12. #3862
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    Guys. Guys. Guys.

    Pink, giggly, prancing Fairies beating up the tough guys and dragons.

    Seems legit.

  13. #3863
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    Well, you can't judge a pokemon by its looks. Look at Espeon. Look at how cute and small this feline pokemon is and it can knock down a big Nidoking with Psychic. I think the anime and game has taught us that it's not always about appearance. A pokemon can be cute while kicking a dragon's butt in battle. Besides, the old tales of fairies aren't too pleasant. I recall one where fairies would kidnap children from their parents. Not too cute, is it?
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  14. #3864
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yveltal96 View Post
    Not to sound biased or anything, but I really hope that Dark isn't weak to Fairy. Here is a comparison to Electric to prove my point

    Electric:
    SE against: 2
    Resisted by: 3
    Weak to: 1
    Resists: 3

    Dark:
    SE against: 2
    Resisted by: 3
    Weak to: 2
    Resists: 2

    They are both super effective against the same amount, and are resisted by the same amount of types, but Electric has less weaknesses and more resistances. I think Dark should at least resist fairy, if not be super effective against it.
    You missed out the fact Dark-Type has an immunity...

    Though I agree, Dark-Type needs another weakness like Steel-Type needs another resistance -_-

    Since they seem to be opposing forces though, I think GF may have them SE on each other.

  15. #3865
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakurai View Post
    I think Umbreon having a weakness to Moonblast would be idiotic (Which is something I haven't actually seen someone contest yet).
    Lol, If you start bringing up this argument then lots of other stuff starts to unravel. Try look at it this way, Rhydon can learn Surf, it doesn't effect him in anyway, but when hit by Surf in battle it does and heck load of damage. When an aggressive force of Water hits it, it hurts it. Now Umbreon can harness the moonlight in some ways and so far they all seem passive, but when Moon Blast, which is an aggressive force hits Umbreon it doesn't like it. So I don't think its that idiotic.
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  16. #3866

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ditto24 View Post
    Lol, If you start bringing up this argument then lots of other stuff starts to unravel. Try look at it this way, Rhydon can learn Surf, it doesn't effect him in anyway, but when hit by Surf in battle it does and heck load of damage. When an aggressive force of Water hits it, it hurts it. Now Umbreon can harness the moonlight in some ways and so far they all seem passive, but when Moon Blast, which is an aggressive force hits Umbreon it doesn't like it. So I don't think its that idiotic.
    Also, Solrock can be hurt by Solarbeam. I'm iffy about Fairy being SE against Dark myself, but not because of Umbreon and Moonblast.

  17. #3867
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    That is the thing about a move like Moonblast- it isn't the fact it is Moon based, it is HOW it is being channeled elementally; if you think about it, Rock is basically Ground [sciencey blah blah, it is the same thing :P] yet Rock as an element channeled as a Rock [rocks, hardened sediment, minerals etc.] type move is super effective on Flying whereas as Ground [soft sediment, mud etc.] it is completely ineffective. Solar energy as Solarbeam is different to it as say, something like solar energy has heat- because it is channeled in a particular way that makes it Grass type.

    So yah, the basis for moves can be very similar to other types etc. but it perhaps about how that energy is channeled which can make something like Moonblast super effective on Umbreon.
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  18. #3868
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ditto24 View Post
    Lol, If you start bringing up this argument then lots of other stuff starts to unravel. Try look at it this way, Rhydon can learn Surf, it doesn't effect him in anyway, but when hit by Surf in battle it does and heck load of damage. When an aggressive force of Water hits it, it hurts it. Now Umbreon can harness the moonlight in some ways and so far they all seem passive, but when Moon Blast, which is an aggressive force hits Umbreon it doesn't like it. So I don't think its that idiotic.
    I think it's something else with Rhydon using Surf...
    Umbreon is the moonlight-Pokémon regaining strenght absorbing the moonlight or something. It would be a bit wrong if the same moonlight/beam/thing would harm it.
    But yeah... I think, it's just because of the move and Umbreon's classification that it'd be strange to give Umbreon a weakness to Fairy.
    It works really well for every other Dark type or Fairy move on the other side. (Umbreon being hit SE with Fairy Wind for example)
    And GF won't care about a single tiny flaw in the system. They never do. So I can also understand your argument.


    (Anyone wants to see Rhydon on a surfboard when using Surf? I want him to wear sunglasses and holding a tropical cocktail doing so.)



    Well I just hope that Fairy won't be not very effective against Grass and Ice. They don't need another weakness. Brrr.


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  19. #3869
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banani View Post
    I think it's something else with Rhydon using Surf...
    Umbreon is the moonlight-Pokémon regaining strenght absorbing the moonlight or something. It would be a bit wrong if the same moonlight/beam/thing would harm it.
    But yeah... I think, it's just because of the move and Umbreon's classification that it'd be strange to give Umbreon a weakness to Fairy.
    .
    A classification doesn't really effect how it manages in Battle. Umbreon harnesses the moon in its way, but gets hits by a Fairy move, thats the key thing, the type of move it get hits by not the name. Grass Pokemon aren't weak to moves that have 'Fire' in them, they are weak to Fire type moves. If Dark is weak to Fairy then thats what will matter, not the fact Umbreon doesn't like a move that has Moon in its name.
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    Quote Originally Posted by storm12 View Post
    it is HOW it is being channeled elementally
    Yeah, you're probably right though.

    I see Fairy as a summoning/cleric type also.

    But well let's just wait and see if Fairy's going to be SE against Dark.
    This a tough one to explain, I think, because both types are very complex.


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  21. #3871
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    I think Fairy should be super effective on Ghost if anything, since the type is easily one of the best defensively, and it's not packing any common weaknesses, either.

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    Ghost types should be left alone concerning the Fairy type.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ditto24 View Post
    A classification doesn't really effect how it manages in Battle. Umbreon harnesses the moon in its way, but gets hits by a Fairy move, thats the key thing, the type of move it get hits by not the name. Grass Pokemon aren't weak to moves that have 'Fire' in them, they are weak to Fire type moves. If Dark is weak to Fairy then thats what will matter, not the fact Umbreon doesn't like a move that has Moon in its name.
    Our brains are so in tune basically how I see it :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Banani View Post
    Yeah, you're probably right though.

    I see Fairy as a summoning/cleric type also.

    But well let's just wait and see if Fairy's going to be SE against Dark.
    This a tough one to explain, I think, because both types are very complex.



    That is an interesting idea- of it as a summoning type, but someone [I THINK it was Nacreous] said they are like prisms; channeling other energies and outputting them as Fairy type moves; in a way, summoning different forces :P
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ditto24 View Post
    A classification doesn't really effect how it manages in Battle. Umbreon harnesses the moon in its way, but gets hits by a Fairy move, thats the key thing, the type of move it get hits by not the name. Grass Pokemon aren't weak to moves that have 'Fire' in them, they are weak to Fire type moves. If Dark is weak to Fairy then thats what will matter, not the fact Umbreon doesn't like a move that has Moon in its name.
    I think I got it.


    Everything can be toxic. It's just the amount of something that matters. So exposed to moonlight Umbreon regenerates. It doesn't come into contact with the moon's destructive powers itself.



    Allright then. Dark could be weak against Fairy... but then it would mean that Fairy Wind is obviously a really weak attack for not OHKO Hydreigon in the trailer.


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  25. #3875
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banani View Post



    Allright then. Dark could be weak against Fairy... but then it would mean that Fairy Wind is obviously a really weak attack for not OHKO Hydreigon in the trailer.
    Whether or not Fairy Wind did 2x or 4x damage, I still think Fairy Wind is around 60 BP. So like Silver Wind or something. I can see Fairy getting a variation of Ancient Power, I think it fits.
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