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  1. #26
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    Yep, yet ANOTHER thread of "let's all whine and bash BW because it's not the same bland, formula-driven writing that we all think was so brilliant!"

    Grow up, Pokemon fandom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightstar1994 View Post
    It's obviously obvious that the Earthquake REALLY affected Best Wishes as a whole. That's why i also don't except TR to be any serious in Gen VI, studio wants to keep it safe from unexpected events like this ever happening.
    No, it's obvious YOU are in denial about how little it affected BW as a whole. You just want a scapegoat for why BW didn't go the way you wanted it to.
    Last edited by AgentPierce; 3rd July 2013 at 1:10 PM.

  2. #27
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    I feel like the earthquake postponing the first TR vs. TP arc really ****ed up everything down the road.

    They probably wanted it to to be good but they ran out of ideas and it just went downhill from there. The new island saga is just a pointless filler to stall time until XY.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    Yep, yet ANOTHER thread of "let's all whine and bash BW because it's not the same bland, formula-driven writing that we all think was so brilliant!"

    Grow up, Pokemon fandom.



    No, it's obvious YOU are in denial about how little it affected BW as a whole. You just want a scapegoat for why BW didn't go the way you wanted it to.
    I'm not saying that BW is as terrible as a whole as some have made it, and the bashing gets over excessive a lot, but not all of it has to do with just being "different" from the formula. It is hard to defend the way they handled the league or handled having maybe nearly 40 episodes of filler and nothing important happening between the end of the league and the end of the saga. Or basically half of ash's team almost never seeing the light of day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by yuoke View Post
    nearly 40 episodes of filler.
    You must be confusing BW with DP, a series that DID have around 40 fillers in a row.

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    A part of Episode N and Charizard's return, I indeed feel that nothing important is happening here. No important tournaments, no development of the main cast's teams, no true goal. Sure, the Clair episode may be relevant for Iris's development and Alexa may be the connection between Best Wishes and the XY anime, but I find it strange that they rushed through the League and Episode N... for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil133 View Post
    You must be confusing BW with DP, a series that DID have around 40 fillers in a row.
    Are you talking about the 7th and 8th Badges' gap? Because in that gap there were only around 10 filler episodes and they were spread. DA! has way more fillers in a row than DP.
    Last edited by Cresselia92; 3rd July 2013 at 1:51 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    you talking about the 7th and 8th Badges' gap? Because in that gap there were only around 10 filler episodes and they were spread. DA! has way more fillers in a row than DP.
    Yeah that's the gap I am talking about. It probably had around 10 non-fillers though, not the other way around.

  7. #32
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    Every bad saga always have decent and important episodes relating to either a character's pokemon or the character, BW just hasn't done this to a consistent rate that makes people consider it good or decent saga when comparing it to either AG or DP.

    Take what you will from BW, N's arc and Da! They all had their important moments but sadly their fillers overpower them thus giving them over excessive attention then they need.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightjewelz View Post
    Every bad saga always have decent and important episodes relating to either a character's pokemon or the character, BW just hasn't done this to a consistent rate that makes people consider it good or decent saga when comparing it to either AG or DP.
    Except that it DID do it at a consistent rate. It's just that it didn't do it the way fans wanted it to. They want Ash to be like in AG/DP and Iris to be exactly like May and Dawn and their Pokemon to get episodes and episodes of on-screen training in order to be "properly developed".

    I feel like the earthquake postponing the first TR vs. TP arc really ****ed up everything down the road.
    Did you not read anything previously said? The earthquake and postponement of those two episodes affected NOTHING. Up to Twist Mountain was planned to go exactly as it did when the earthquake happened. No arc was postponed, just the two-part CONCLUSION to an arc. People need to do the effing research instead of using this event as a scapegoat as to why BW didn't go the route they wanted it to.

    They probably wanted it to to be good but they ran out of ideas and it just went downhill from there.
    Ran out of ideas? I must have imagined those tournament arcs, Meowth arc, Milos Island arc, Chargestone/Black Ruins/Krokorok string of episodes, Twist Mountain two-parter, long-*** Meloetta arc culminating in Ash finally facing Giovanni, Iris' gradual development, and Episode N.
    Last edited by AgentPierce; 3rd July 2013 at 2:11 PM.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    Except that it DID do it at a consistent rate. It's just that it didn't do it the way fans wanted it to. They want Ash to be like in AG/DP and Iris to be exactly like May and Dawn and their Pokemon to get episodes and episodes of on-screen training in order to be "properly developed".
    Well if fans get something use to something they enjoy dearly and seeing it be wiped away in the span of one episode and only progress further down one can only complain and ask why.

    Ash was clearly handled well in both AG/DP when comparing to the current saga. Seeing him mature and helping May and Dawn at first showed us his learned a few things in his journey. For that to be wiped away and written like it never happened can get irritating and thus the hate for BW only increases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil133 View Post
    Yeah that's the gap I am talking about. It probably had around 10 non-fillers though, not the other way around.
    The only true fillers it had were:

    - Ampharos (DP130)
    - Tangrowth (DP134)
    - Pokémon Hustle (DP135)
    - Piplup, Elekid and Marill (DP137)
    - Togepi (DP142)
    - Windworks (DP144)
    - Murkrow and Dark Stone (DP148)
    - Pikachu and Piplup "love" (DP149)
    - Magnezone and Metagross (DP158)
    - Ditto (DP173)
    - Meowth and Glameow (DP178)

    And a lot of stuff happened in-between, like the GF, the Team Galactic finale, various evolutions, Ash and Paul's first full battle, Brandon vs. Paul, Bertha, Shaymin and Heatran, Gible and Togekiss, Lyra tagging along... I'd hardly call those episodes fillers. You may dislike them, but that doesn't make them fillers.

    What did DA! accomplish of any relevance, a part Ash and Iris breaking up and Oak getting a Rotom?
    Last edited by Cresselia92; 3rd July 2013 at 2:23 PM.
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  11. #36
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    Best Wishes was poorly received because it tried to be Kanto 2.0 and failed. The writers should know better then try to copy Takeshi Shudo because it didn't work.

    Iris and Trip are the least popular female lead and main rival in the series too, so they didn't do well with characters either. Arguably the only reason Cilan was popular was because he came directly after how stale Brock was in DP.

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    LOL at Cyber stating his opinion as if it were fact again. His opinion that is mostly formed from the opinions of others rather than his own feelings, at that.

    Quote Originally Posted by midnightjewelz View Post
    Ash was clearly handled well in both AG/DP when comparing to the current saga. Seeing him mature and helping May and Dawn at first showed us his learned a few things in his journey. For that to be wiped away and written like it never happened can get irritating and thus the hate for BW only increases.
    Maybe more people should realize that this means the anime is written for kids, specifically new audiences of kids, and isn't trying to please continuity-junkie teens and adults?

    They reset Ash because they don't expect most of the people who watched AG and DP to still be watching the anime.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    LOL at Cyber stating his opinion as if it were fact again. His opinion that is mostly formed from the opinions of others rather than his own feelings, at that.
    Well its easy to judge such a thing just by looking around the fandom. Its obvious Cilan was the most popular BW character, and that none of the others really became as popular as he did.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    LOL at Cyber stating his opinion as if it were fact again. His opinion that is mostly formed from the opinions of others rather than his own feelings, at that.



    Maybe more people should realize that this means the anime is written for kids, specifically new audiences of kids, and isn't trying to please continuity-junkie teens and adults?

    They reset Ash because they don't expect most of the people who watched AG and DP to still be watching the anime.
    Why would they not expect that? I could see them not expecting like people that only watched OS and nothing after, but the odds are that people that watched through dp would still keep watching BW.
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  15. #40
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    Oh Cyber, there he goes again.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post

    Maybe more people should realize that this means the anime is written for kids, specifically new audiences of kids, and isn't trying to please continuity-junkie teens and adults?

    They reset Ash because they don't expect most of the people who watched AG and DP to still be watching the anime.
    Sadly that isn't the case, there will always be people out there watching the show and making notes as if they are preparing themselves for a school paper. But sometimes kid shows like Pokemon can attract more audiences than children themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yuoke View Post
    Why would they not expect that? I could see them not expecting like people that only watched OS and nothing after, but the odds are that people that watched through dp would still keep watching BW.
    Because the Pokemon anime is made for kids. And kids, especially in Japan, usually grow out of Pokemon as they grow up. DP was made with the impression that kids who watched AG would still be kids and still into Pokemon, but BW was made with the impression that those kids have grown out of it and thus tailored for a new audience. It was the same with AG, which was made for a new audience than the kids who watched the OS. The new audience won't be complaining about Ash being reset, since they aren't attached to him in any way.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    Because the Pokemon anime is made for kids. And kids, especially in Japan, usually grow out of Pokemon as they grow up. DP was made with the impression that kids who watched AG would still be kids and still into Pokemon, but BW was made with the impression that those kids have grown out of it and thus tailored for a new audience. It was the same with AG, which was made for a new audience than the kids who watched the OS. The new audience won't be complaining about Ash being reset, since they aren't attached to him in any way.
    Was it really? I remember when AG began it felt like the writers were also aiming it also at the original fanbase. Ash felt like he "grew up" with the audience by the time Hoenn started, Brock returned for a familiar character, and May was introduced for new little kids, girls, and people who grew tired of Misty in Johto.

    Especially since back then Hoenn was only "Season 6" of the anime, and it wasn't that far from when the show originally began.

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    On the subject of DA quality, I actually am looking forward to it (dub is only just approaching N climax). The BW writers cannot handle an actual arc. They are much better at doing self-contained episodes. I'd much rather watch Scare in the Litwick Mansion or Beauties Battling for Pride and Prejudice than something like Ash's Mind Is Blown By A Simple Mean Look And Roar Tactic, Team Rocket Rob A Pokémon Center Again But This Time It Takes A 6 Episode Arc or Ash Has A Nightmare About Searching For Axew And Being Beaten By Cameron In The Unova League.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    Because the Pokemon anime is made for kids. And kids, especially in Japan, usually grow out of Pokemon as they grow up. DP was made with the impression that kids who watched AG would still be kids and still into Pokemon, but BW was made with the impression that those kids have grown out of it and thus tailored for a new audience. It was the same with AG, which was made for a new audience than the kids who watched the OS. The new audience won't be complaining about Ash being reset, since they aren't attached to him in any way.
    And how do I know that this isn't an opinion but a fact? Proof? Or at least semi-solid proof like you knowing a couple of people in Japan? You just blamed Cyber about passing opinions as facts lol..

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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    The only true fillers it had were:

    - Ampharos (DP130)
    - Tangrowth (DP134)
    - Pokémon Hustle (DP135)
    - Piplup, Elekid and Marill (DP137)
    - Togepi (DP142)
    - Windworks (DP144)
    - Murkrow and Dark Stone (DP148)
    - Pikachu and Piplup "love" (DP149)
    - Magnezone and Metagross (DP158)
    - Ditto (DP173)
    - Meowth and Glameow (DP178)

    And a lot of stuff happened in-between, like the GF, the Team Galactic finale, various evolutions, Ash and Paul's first full battle, Brandon vs. Paul, Bertha, Shaymin and Heatran, Gible and Togekiss, Lyra tagging along... I'd hardly call those episodes fillers. You may dislike them, but that doesn't make them fillers.
    You must have forgotten about these episodes:

        Spoiler:- More fillers:


    Combined with the episodes you mentioned that makes 22 episodes. Maybe not 40, but more than what BW had after the league. Bashing BW because of "all" the fillers it had after the league, while being fine with DP's gap is pure hypocrisy.

    What did DA! accomplish of any relevance, a part Ash and Iris breaking up and Oak getting a Rotom?
    Barely anything, I couldn't care less about DA honestly. Hell, I don't even consider it the same series as Unova just because of how different it is. Maybe I should just use the term Unova from now on instead of BW.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    Because the Pokemon anime is made for kids. And kids, especially in Japan, usually grow out of Pokemon as they grow up. DP was made with the impression that kids who watched AG would still be kids and still into Pokemon, but BW was made with the impression that those kids have grown out of it and thus tailored for a new audience. It was the same with AG, which was made for a new audience than the kids who watched the OS. The new audience won't be complaining about Ash being reset, since they aren't attached to him in any way.
    That is like saying all children that watch pokemon in the western side of the world don't grow any attachment to Ash and simply move on like nothing ever happened. If that is the case we wouldn't be here discussing such a topic. Any child, not all, will grow some sort attachment to either Ash, his pokemon or a different character in total. The anime caters for all ages, some overpowers others. Pokemon is not your typical teenager-aim anime.
    Last edited by Midnightmoon6o2; 3rd July 2013 at 3:12 PM.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil133 View Post
    You must have forgotten about these episodes:

        Spoiler:- More fillers:


    Combined with the episodes you mentioned that makes 22 episodes. Maybe not 40, but more than what BW had after the league. Bashing BW because of "all" the fillers it had after the league, while being fine with DP's gap is pure hypocrisy.



    Barely anything, I couldn't care less about DA honestly. Hell, I don't even consider it the same series as Unova just because of how different it is. Maybe I should just use the term Unova from now on instead of BW.
    DP 133 IS A FILLER? Do you even know what a fliler is?

    Even so.

    You counter argue about how bad Best Wishes is by commenting on DP's fillers?Nobody said DP fillers are great in this thread as far as I saw. DP didn't have the filler straight but were rather spread out. So people could afford to skip those fillers and had something to look forward to the week after that. Pray tell me what the flip are people looking forward to when Da! was announced? Did you even see the depleting amount of posts in the Episode discussion thread?

    Your argument is utterly wrong.

    P.S: I am not a pro-BestWishes bashing party, I am just a DP fanatic. I love parts of Best Wishes Da! like the Butterfree episode
    Last edited by Alfred the Second; 3rd July 2013 at 3:48 PM.

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  23. #48
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    Some DP fillers were good like the evil Togepi episode but people watched DP for the battles, rivals, villains and plot.

    If not for that nobody would have cared.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil133 View Post
    You must have forgotten about these episodes:

    DP133
    Non-filler. It focused on Ash and his team recovering from the crushing defeat after the full battle. Also, Uxie appeared.

    DP139
    That's debatable, since Oak appeared and Dawn met him for the first time.

    DP140
    We knew about how Barry knew Heracross. It isn't much different from the episode when we knew a bit of Trip's backstory.

    DP145
    That's a capture episode...

    DP153
    It could be considered filler, but Growlie and Jessebelle appeared again. We knew more of James's backstory.

    DP155
    Zoey is revealed to have got a Kirlia and Leafeon. Also, Dawn starts working on a new combination. Debatable.

    DP159
    Buizel learns Ice Punch. How is a training episode filler? It's not different from Excadrill's and Iris's episode.

    DP164
    A bonding episode. Also Piplup learns Hydro Pump.

    DP167
    Training episode. Debatable.

    DP169
    Pokemon Ranger special. It could be considered filler, if Heatran appearing doesn't count.

    DP172
    Dawn learns how to get in sync with Togekiss. Non-filler.

    Combined with the episodes you mentioned that makes 22 episodes. Maybe not 40, but more than what BW had after the league. Bashing BW because of "all" the fillers it had after the league, while being fine with DP's gap is pure hypocrisy.
    Um, maybe DP has more fillers because it lasts 4 years instead of 3? Of course it has more fillers if we look that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracoflare View Post
    You counter argue about how bad Best Wishes is by commenting on DP's fillers?Nobody said DP fillers are great in this thread as far as I saw. DP didn't have the filler straight but were rather spread out. So people could afford to skip those fillers and had something to look forward to the week after that. Pray tell me what the flip are people looking forward to when Da! was announced? Did you even see the depleting amount of posts in the Episode discussion thread?
    I never expected much, but it would have been good to have a good goal. Honestly, since I had such low expectations at the beginning I'm enjoying DA! much more than some parts of BW and BW2. So... that can be considered a good thing, I guess.
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    It was a wierd episode when Piplup learned Hydro Pump

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