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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    I never expected much, but it would have been good to have a good goal. Honestly, since I had such low expectations at the beginning I'm enjoying DA! much more than some parts of BW and BW2. So... that can be considered a good thing, I guess.
    Trust me, I am enjoying Da! too (not as much as a league battle I agree). The Butterfree and Iris episodes were my favorites. After having like ten thousand threads of repeating BW sucks, I thought one might get tired of complaining. I am wrong.

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    Most if not all fillers are pointless anyway and are only to stall for the next episode to fill gaps in, whether or not you like any that's your opinion. So all sagas have it, not only BW K?

    I'm not sure what's the purpose of this thread though, sorry.. :/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ash&Pikachu-Fan View Post
    Most if not all fillers are pointless anyway and are only to stall for the next episode to fill gaps in, whether or not you like any that's your opinion. So all sagas have it, not only BW K?

    I'm not sure what's the purpose of this thread though, sorry.. :/
    That's the main question of the OP: "Was a filler saga with nothing of consequence really justified when half the team is underdeveloped and unevolved?"

    Honestly, I would like to see the Unova Pokemon being developed before being (probably) ditched for XY but I'm not expecting that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ash&Pikachu-Fan View Post
    Most if not all fillers are pointless anyway and are only to stall for the next episode to fill gaps in, whether or not you like any that's your opinion. So all sagas have it, not only BW K?

    I'm not sure what's the purpose of this thread though, sorry.. :/
    But the difference is that because of the poorly timed BW saga and rushing things early on, We now have 35-40 episodes straight of filler between the league and xy. That is all fact, And I don't see how anyone could reasonably say it is good for the anime.
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    Quote Originally Posted by yuoke View Post
    But the difference is that because of the poorly timed BW saga and rushing things early on, We now have 35-40 episodes straight of filler between the league and xy. That is all fact, And I don't see how anyone could reasonably say it is good for the anime.
    That's a lot! I checked and so far there's only been 10 fillers with 2 possible upcoming. 1 of which gave N development so no, not at least that many. If there's around 9 episodes left and I could see only a few more fillers to come.

    Hm, it seems BW didn't have many till now but it's still fine since all sagas placing of fillers are all around anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    Yep, yet ANOTHER thread of "let's all whine and bash BW because it's not the same bland, formula-driven writing that we all think was so brilliant!"

    Grow up, Pokemon fandom.
    I agree. I can't discuss everything with the fandom. Not because I love BEst Wishes but because there are members of the fandom who don't think anmd only are posting for spam.

    Quote Originally Posted by yuoke View Post
    I'm not saying that BW is as terrible as a whole as some have made it, and the bashing gets over excessive a lot, but not all of it has to do with just being "different" from the formula. It is hard to defend the way they handled the league or handled having maybe nearly 20 episodes of filler and nothing important happening between the end of the league and the end of the saga. Or basically half of ash's team almost never seeing the light of day.
    You have expressed what the fans could do. The writers have given up on Best Wishes and we are suffering it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil133 View Post
    You must be confusing BW with DP, a series that DID have around 40 fillers in a row.
    Diamond and Pearl probably don't have 40 fillers in total even if the saga was really long.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    A part of Episode N and Charizard's return, I indeed feel that nothing important is happening here. No important tournaments, no development of the main cast's teams, no true goal. Sure, the Clair episode may be relevant for Iris's development and Alexa may be the connection between Best Wishes and the XY anime, but I find it strange that they rushed through the League and Episode N... for that. This is why the fandom are complaining about Decolora Adventures and the fans are taking a hiatus to this show and they aren0t watching it like before.

    Are you talking about the 7th and 8th Badges' gap? Because in that gap there were only around 10 filler episodes and they were spread. DA! has way more fillers in a row than DP.
    Da is 80% fillers. That gap is non-fillers (for themost part) like you explained later. At lest in that gap there are more interesting things than in Decolora Adventures.

    Quote Originally Posted by midnightjewelz View Post
    Every bad saga always have decent and important episodes relating to either a character's pokemon or the character, BW just hasn't done this to a consistent rate that makes people consider it good or decent saga when comparing it to either AG or DP.

    Take what you will from BW, N's arc and Da! They all had their important moments but sadly their fillers overpower them thus giving them over excessive attention then they need.
    With the exception of Da! fillers aren't a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    Except that it DID do it at a consistent rate. It's just that it didn't do it the way fans wanted it to. They want Ash to be like in AG/DP and Iris to be exactly like May and Dawn and their Pokemon to get episodes and episodes of on-screen training in order to be "properly developed".
    You have described correctly opne of those two characters. And Dawn is the only one that had episodes dedicated episodes about training. Ash's DP training episodes focueses on other things. This is one of the differences between may and Dawn.



    Did you not read anything previously said? The earthquake and postponement of those two episodes affected NOTHING. Up to Twist Mountain was planned to go exactly as it did when the earthquake happened. No arc was postponed, just the two-part CONCLUSION to an arc. People need to do the effing research instead of using this event as a scapegoat as to why BW didn't go the route they wanted it to.
    Are yopu a writer of the Pokemon anime?



    Ran out of ideas? I must have imagined those tournament arcs, Meowth arc, Milos Island arc, Chargestone/Black Ruins/Krokorok string of episodes, Twist Mountain two-parter, long-*** Meloetta arc culminating in Ash finally facing Giovanni, Iris' gradual development, and Episode N.
    hhhmmmm.....
    Tournaments: Disliked for many of the members oif the fandom, specially the Junior Cup.
    -Meoiwth arc: Is caused because your favourite is disliked by some of the audsience, including Inuko Inuyama.
    -Whatr putrpose have the Chargestone episodes?
    -Twist Mountain? How boring.
    -Meloetta. Here I have to agree with you.
    -Well, I agree that Iris had many developement because it's true although there are inconsistent at times.
    -Episode N: is liked by the fandom but I'm mixed about it. Villanous teams arc aren't my strong thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by midnightjewelz View Post
    Well if fans get something use to something they enjoy dearly and seeing it be wiped away in the span of one episode and only progress further down one can only complain and ask why.

    Ash was clearly handled well in both AG/DP when comparing to the current saga. Seeing him mature and helping May and Dawn at first showed us his learned a few things in his journey. For that to be wiped away and written like it never happened can get irritating and thus the hate for BW only increases.
    If you have a pokemon "fan" that watches the anime insiden the target audience and yoiu send on to watch the Sinnoih GF, the Sinnoh League and teh Unova League, see what they are watching.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    The only true fillers it had were:

    - Ampharos (DP130) Not filler. Looker appears for the firs ttime. Looker is a character from DP, @Virgil133
    - Tangrowth (DP134) Mamoswine learns Hidden Power whose is used in Contests and in Best Wishes.
    - Pokémon Hustle (DP135)
    - Piplup, Elekid and Marill (DP137)
    - Togepi (DP142)
    - Windworks (DP144) We know Cyndaquil attacks, Cyndaquil and Piplup's rivalry.
    - Murkrow and Dark Stone (DP148)
    - Pikachu and Piplup "love" (DP149)
    - Magnezone and Metagross (DP158)
    - Ditto (DP173)
    - Meowth and Glameow (DP178)

    And a lot of stuff happened in-between, like the GF, the Team Galactic finale, various evolutions, Ash and Paul's first full battle, Brandon vs. Paul, Bertha, Shaymin and Heatran, Gible and Togekiss, Lyra tagging along... I'd hardly call those episodes fillers. You may dislike them, but that doesn't make them fillers.

    What did DA! accomplish of any relevance, a part Ash and Iris breaking up and Oak getting a Rotom And Oshawott winning a tournament and ending his losing streak.
    Quote Originally Posted by midnightjewelz View Post
    Sadly that isn't the case, there will always be people out there watching the show and making notes as if they are preparing themselves for a school paper. But sometimes kid shows like Pokemon can attract more audiences than children themselves.
    In America, is a 15% of the audience of average. In japan is a 25% of audience of average the audience outsid eof the target audience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil133 View Post
    You must have forgotten about these episodes:

        Spoiler:- More fillers:


    Combined with the episodes you mentioned that makes 22 episodes. Maybe not 40, but more than what BW had after the league. Bashing BW because of "all" the fillers it had after the league, while being fine with DP's gap is pure hypocrisy. What?

    Barely anything, I couldn't care less about DA honestly. Hell, I don't even consider it the same series as Unova just because of how different it is. Maybe I should just use the term Unova from now on instead of BW.
    You are biased because your favourite TRio eaves the episodes but they are in the show acting as your not favourite TRio.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dracoflare View Post
    DP 133 IS A FILLER? Do you even know what a fliler is?

    Even so.

    You counter argue about how bad Best Wishes is by commenting on DP's fillers?Nobody said DP fillers are great in this thread as far as I saw. DP didn't have the filler straight but were rather spread out. So people could afford to skip those fillers and had something to look forward to the week after that. Pray tell me what the flip are people looking forward to when Da! was announced? Did you even see the depleting amount of posts in the Episode discussion thread?

    Your argument is utterly wrong.

    P.S: I am not a pro-BestWishes bashing party, I am just a DP fanatic. I love parts of Best Wishes Da! like the Butterfree episode
    I agree with Dracoflare. DOP is better than BW, I prefer Diamond and Pearl and although Best Wishes has good things, they are douing big mistakes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ash&Pikachu-Fan View Post
    That's a lot! I checked and so far there's only been 10 fillers with 2 possible upcoming. 1 of which gave N development so no, not at least that many. If there's around 9 episodes left and I could see only a few more fillers to come.

    Hm, it seems BW didn't have many till now but it's still fine since all sagas placing of fillers are all around anyway.
    I honestly don't count n getting development as non filler because he was only in like 10 episodes total and we will never see him again. All of episode n was a filler saga, and da is too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by yuoke View Post
    I honestly don't count n getting development as non filler because he was only in like 10 episodes total and we will never see him again. All of episode n was a filler saga, and da is too.
    I'm guessing Orange Islands and the Kanto Battle Frontier were all filler too by that logic.

    If an episode has an impact on the story or continuity then it is non filler but if you see something as filler it's only your opinion. It still doesn't make any sense though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ash&Pikachu-Fan View Post
    I'm guessing Orange Islands and the Kanto Battle Frontier were all filler too by that logic.

    If an episode has an impact on the story or continuity then it is non filler but if you see something as filler it's only your opinion. It still doesn't make any sense though.
    I have to partially agree with youke here. A part of Charizard coming back, Episode N was more a self-centered saga than something connected to the whole series. With that I'm not saying that it wasn't good. Just that it didn't have a general impact.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ash&Pikachu-Fan View Post
    That's a lot! I checked and so far there's only been 10 fillers with 2 possible upcoming. 1 of which gave N development so no, not at least that many. If there's around 9 episodes left and I could see only a few more fillers to come.

    Hm, it seems BW didn't have many till now but it's still fine since all sagas placing of fillers are all around anyway.
    BW didn't have enough fillers so it's okay to shove them all together? What kind of logical argument is that? You are no way supporting the pro-Best Wishes argument, and in fact reflecting badly upon those who support it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ash&Pikachu-Fan View Post
    I'm guessing Orange Islands and the Kanto Battle Frontier were all filler too by that logic.

    If an episode has an impact on the story or continuity then it is non filler but if you see something as filler it's only your opinion. It still doesn't make any sense though.
    OI gave the Kanto team some battles it needed, introduced Oak's lifetime servant, and Ash was actually doing something AND traveling.

    BF is one of Ash's best achievements. I admit I wasn't a fan of some episodes, but Ash still accomplished a lot




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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    I have to partially agree with youke here. A part of Charizard coming back, Episode N was more a self-centered saga than something connected to the whole series. With that I'm not saying that it wasn't good. Just that it didn't have a general impact.
    Uh, I know a lot of you may or may not find organisations interesting but as a game adaptions there almost as important as the badge quest.

    If you don't count Episode N as non filler that should be with all teams, whether or not it happens after the league.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ash&Pikachu-Fan View Post
    Uh, I know a lot of you may or may not find organisations interesting but as a game adaptions there almost as important as the badge quest.

    If you don't count Episode N as non filler that should be with all teams, whether or not it happens after the league.
    Episode N was a fraction of what happened in BW and didn't even show a lot of the story of TP. What I mean by that is, for some reason they were only after Reshiram. I have no idea why Zekrom and Kyurem were ignored. And no, Zekrom zapping Pikachu does not make up for not being a part of the rest of the series in its region

    What I'm trying to say is, how can the villian story be as important as a badge quest if barely any of the story is present? The games gave them A LOT to work with
    Last edited by TheFonz; 3rd July 2013 at 5:36 PM.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Ash&Pikachu-Fan View Post
    Uh, I know a lot of you may or may not find organisations interesting but as a game adaptions there almost as important as the badge quest.

    If you don't count Episode N as non filler that should be with all teams, whether or not it happens after the league.
    That's actually true, but I think that's a debatable thing. They can be considered fillers because they don't influence the general plot, but at the same time they're not because they're related to the games. I think that's an opinion that differs between person and person.
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    Episode N is as non-filler as all the other non-filler episodes. It introduced a lot of in-game characters and brought back a character that hasn't been seen since DP. Not to mention we have charizard coming back, captures for Jessie and James, and N in both the latest ending and movie credits.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    That's actually true, but I think that's a debatable thing. They can be considered fillers because they don't influence the general plot, but at the same time they're not because they're related to the games. I think that's an opinion that differs between person and person.
    If 1 or more episodes lead up to another then those events are referenced as canon and by doing so, making it non filler. If you skip Ash meeting N for the first time and watch the episode he met up with him again, it'd make no sense how Ash knows such a person. It's inconsistent.

    I got no idea why it matters but fine, if you wish to skip Episode N or Da's important events then sure, why not? Ash meets Alexa in Da, that may lead up to XY btw. :P

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    I'm only watching episode pictures since DA! started.

    Can't wait for XY anime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ash&Pikachu-Fan View Post
    If 1 or more episodes lead up to another then those events are referenced as canon and by doing so, making it non filler. If you skip Ash meeting N for the first time and watch the episode he met up with him again, it'd make no sense how Ash knows such a person. It's inconsistent.

    I got no idea why it matters but fine, if you wish to skip Episode N or Da's important events then sure, why not? Ash meets Alexa in Da, that may lead up to XY btw. :P
    Technically if you considered Episode N to be a filler arc, then it wouldn't matter how much continuity was inside the arc itself if those events were never referenced again after its conclusion.

    Not that Episode N is a filler arc. Meeting Team Plasma, Reshiram and N are some of the things Hilbert and Nate did, so it can be considered an adaptation of game events even if they weren't adapted faithfully.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deathseer View Post
    This. 1000x THIS!

    Seriously, people keep building up those episodes as if they were the end all be all of all episodes and were going to be the best of the whole series since its beginning and that by them not airing, it ruined the Best Wishes series. People don't want to see to acknowledge the fact that they went going to be as good as they were building it up to be and the series was just poorly written all around.

    And to answer the OP, It's not just you. Nothing of semblance (And I'm starting to include Charizard's return to this list) has happened in this filler arc.
    I agree 100% about the TR vs. TP special. I have no idea why the fanbase has hyped it so much; it honestly looked like any other two-parter to me judging from the previews and I'm willing to bet that most people would have been disappointed with it anyway. The only reason why that special gets so much attention here is because there's still an aura of mystique around it. But the special doesn't matter much anymore imo since it was obviously retconned out of existence and we got Episode N instead.

    And I don't know why Charizard's return is counted as the highlight of BW when Charizard hasn't done anything meaningful since his return. Not to mention how ironic it is for the "best BW episode" to not be about a Unova Pokemon, but a Kanto Pokemon that already got tons of development and whose character got proper closure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charmed View Post
    I agree 100% about the TR vs. TP special. I have no idea why the fanbase has hyped it so much;.
    Mostly because it was the introduction of Team Plasma and the conclusion to what Team Rocket had been doing for the past 15+episodes. Also Giovanni.
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    Quote Originally Posted by diakyu View Post
    Mostly because it was the introduction of Team Plasma and the conclusion to what Team Rocket had been doing for the past 15+episodes. Also Giovanni.
    Exactly, this. I mean these episodes were a big deal to people because Giovanni wasn't the direct antagonist since Mewtwo Returns waaaayyyyy back in Johto. Team Plasma is one of the series most popular evil teams and they were going up against Team Rocket, another very popular evil team in the Pokémon series. Plus, all that build up and hype for those episodes and the fact that we missed out on the ending of a very cool arc. I mean imagine in Digimon if we saw all the episodes of the Devimon arc for example but the final battle with Angemon and Devimon got postponed. People would have a right to get upset.

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    Lol 2 pages of filler arguing.

    Sinnoh has less of it than Hoenn and Johto, but a lot of the episodes just aren't good, neither was the pacing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ash&Pikachu-Fan View Post
    I'm guessing Orange Islands and the Kanto Battle Frontier were all filler too by that logic.

    If an episode has an impact on the story or continuity then it is non filler but if you see something as filler it's only your opinion. It still doesn't make any sense though.
    Those were both leagues that actually involved character development for ash and his pokemon, along with his friends he traveled with and their pokemon. Unless you count ash remembering that charizaed exists or dragonite teaching a climsy pokemon how to thunderpunch character development, there is literally nothing there. The anime isnt the games, the main plot and stories are about ash, his friends, And all of their pokemon. A small random thing with plasma trying use reshiram and N going all "I must end this!" is all filler in the long run.
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    Quote Originally Posted by diakyu View Post
    Mostly because it was the introduction of Team Plasma and the conclusion to what Team Rocket had been doing for the past 15+episodes. Also Giovanni.
    But we pretty much got all of this anyway, except for the conclusion of Team Rocket's plan and regardless, I don't think it would've met my expectations. I just don't like that BW's flaws are blamed on two banned episodes when it seems evident to me that there were other problems with the saga.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marioluigifan05 View Post
    Lol 2 pages of filler arguing.

    Sinnoh has less of it than Hoenn and Johto, but a lot of the episodes just aren't good, neither was the pacing.
    And most of Johto after Charizard/Squirtle leave wasn't good until the tail end of Master Quest either. Johto League Champions has like 10 non-filler episodes.

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