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Thread: Unfinished Unova

  1. #26
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    And it's not so strange that a Koffing took out that many Pkmn. I mean, Pikachu is horribly overpowered at times for being a Pikachu. Of course a Koffing can be that, too. ^^
    Is apparantly Dragon Type in the Friend Safari. Neat.

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    They did a little bit of both. Koffing was to powerfull and Ash poke where shown a bit weaker and even suggesting that Ash needs 6 pokes to defeat 3 of Roxies is degrading.

    Either way it was a bad decision in my opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eneci View Post
    They did a little bit of both. Koffing was to powerfull and Ash poke where shown a bit weaker and even suggesting that Ash needs 6 pokes to defeat 3 of Roxies is degrading.

    Either way it was a bad decision in my opinion.
    True, most of Ash's Univa Pokémon feels kinda weak overall. ._. Then again, maybe Roxie was just a very, very strong trainer. :P
    Is apparantly Dragon Type in the Friend Safari. Neat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MastersOfMonsters View Post
    True, most of Ash's Univa Pokémon feels kinda weak overall. ._. Then again, maybe Roxie was just a very, very strong trainer. :P
    Well she is a gym leader, so she has to be pretty strong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by yuoke View Post
    Well she is a gym leader, so she has to be pretty strong.
    Of course. But in a way, she seems to be the strongest Gym Leader Ash ever battled. ^^
    Is apparantly Dragon Type in the Friend Safari. Neat.

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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eneci View Post
    They did a little bit of both. Koffing was to powerfull and Ash poke where shown a bit weaker and even suggesting that Ash needs 6 pokes to defeat 3 of Roxies is degrading.

    Either way it was a bad decision in my opinion.
    Ash was degrading to your eyes because you have a certain opinion on how strong a Gym Leader should be. Roxie is clearly a cut above the rest of the gym leaders. Ash(IMHO) used his best Pokemon against Roxie. If Roxie were shown as an Elite Four, one would perhaps accept the way the match went.

    The battle was still enjoyable to me. Ash has used some amazing stratgem in that battle. Sandstorm to weaken Koffing, Leavanny's Strong Shot trick + consecutive Energy Ball, Unfezant trying to fight back despite poisoned and such. I personally don't think Ash was degraded one bit, Roxie was meant to be super powerful. It was just a different type of a challenge. In the end, the Gym Leader decides if a trainer is worthy or not, and Roxie find Ash worthy. Note that her Koffing was powerful enough to defeat a Gothitelle, a fully evolved Psychic Pokemon.

    If we believe a Pikachu beating a Latios, then it would be hypocrisy on our part to not find a Koffing being so powerful believable.

    I STRONGLY believe that Ash's Unova team wasn't weak. They were given less exposition and on-screen training, that is all.

    In other words, one finds it "degrading" because he can't accept that a Gym Leader can actually be powerful than a challenger. It has been proved multiple times that Gym Leaders hold back their true strength. Cheren in the games for example is an experienced Pokemon trainer with level 55ish Pokemon. And two years later, he has a Lilupup as his main Pokemon?

    That's because Gym Leaders have policies, and they obviously won't use their best. So basically every gym leader Ash defeared could potentially be better than Ash but only held back to "Test" his skill.

    I find this more believable than a ten year old who just began training Pokemon be able to defeat much older people who obviously might have a lot of experience under their belt. There's always a possiblity that a Gym Leader can be as strong as an Elite Four but holds back because he can't be too strong. (see Volkner and Flint).
    Last edited by Alfred the Second; 7th July 2013 at 4:27 PM.

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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by yuoke View Post
    Well she is a gym leader, so she has to be pretty strong.
    But not so strong to the point where your speedy Koffing can use Gyro Ball so effectively. That's almost as bad as cheating.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBattleFrontierAsh1 View Post
    But not so strong to the point where your speedy Koffing can use Gyro Ball so effectively. That's almost as bad as cheating.
    No it isn't, because a spinning move being more powerful the more faster a Pokemon is makes more sense than the game logic which says that the move gets stronger the slower the Pokemon.

    Kinetic energy? Rotational Energy? Come on, accept that the game Gyro Ball is unrealistic.

    So, the anime is bad because it makes more sense?

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    Okay but even when Ash is facing E4 they say it's a 3 on 3 or 1 on 1 ! Cause it's a fair fight!

    I didn't say it's bad Roxie was so powerful, it's bad that the writer went the easy way out and gave Ash the 6 on 3 situation instead of making him practice like Ash did against Roark in the first DP gym.

    Roark was really powerfull and Ash practiced it out and found a way to deal with and his strong Pokemons.

    The issue I have is not with the characters it's the writers which constantly took the easier way out of every issue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eneci View Post
    Okay but even when Ash is facing E4 they say it's a 3 on 3 or 1 on 1 ! Cause it's a fair fight!

    I didn't say it's bad Roxie was so powerful, it's bad that the writer went the easy way out and gave Ash the 6 on 3 situation instead of making him practice like Ash did against Roark in the first DP gym.

    Roark was really powerfull and Ash practiced it out and found a way to deal with and his strong Pokemons.

    The issue I have is not with the characters it's the writers which constantly took the easier way out of every issue.
    But unlike an Elite Four who can crush a challenger and get away with it, a Gym Leader is supposed to test a challenger. How can she test Ash when she obviously knows he or any such young trainer will lose to her easily. She was confident of her abilities and rightfully so.

    Hve to agree with the Roark pat though
    Last edited by Alfred the Second; 7th July 2013 at 6:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracoflare View Post
    But unlike an Elite Four who can crush a challenger and get away with it, a Gym Leader is supposed to test a challenger. How can she test Ash when she obviously knows he or any such young trainer will lose to her easily. She was confident of her abilities and rightfully so.

    Hve to agree with the Roark pat though
    Ash is a trainer who traveled from Kanto meaning He isn't a rookie trainer. And Roxie knew it. And as a Gym Leader she should be able to push a trainer to be good as she is and defeat her in a fair battle.

    Nothing U can say can justify the writers decision to make this 6 on 3 !
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    I don't have a problem with powerful unevolved Pokémon as long as it's reasonable. But I have a problem with one blowing through Unfezant and Boldore like nothing, then giving Leavanny trouble, and making Ash use 6 Pokémon against 3. You don't need to have Pokémon failing horribly to show that the other is powerful. A good battle shows strength better than that.

    If the writers wanted to show Koffing's strength than it should have only beat Boldore after a long battle with many hits from both sides. Pignite would come in and one shot Koffing, have some trouble with Scolipede but win and cause some damage against Garbodor, with Pikachu coming to clean it up. I also dislike how Ash doubted himself and Pikachu for the first time ever

    *Edit*
    Or they could have went all out and had a 6 VS 6, 2 parts was plenty enough time. She could have used Koffing, Scolipede, Amoongus, Crobat, Drapion, and Garbodor. A reference to her PWT team
    Last edited by TheFonz; 7th July 2013 at 6:41 PM.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Eneci View Post
    Ash is a trainer who traveled from Kanto meaning He isn't a rookie trainer. And Roxie knew it. And as a Gym Leader she should be able to push a trainer to be good as she is and defeat her in a fair battle.

    Nothing U can say can justify the writers decision to make this 6 on 3 !
    He's starting from the scratch in Best Wishes or any other series by raising his Pokemon from the scratch every single series since AG. So yes, he may have ten thousand years of experience but it won't help him if he raises Pokemon from scratch every single time. Just because he has 5 sagas of experience doesn't mean his Pokemon will suddenly become uber powerful.

    If he does use his Pokemon since the Kanto saga, yes your argument holds water. Rookie or not, there's only so much one can level his Pokemon in one saga.


    @The Fonz: They wanted to overpower her. As simple as it is. The reasons could be marketing or something else. I agree they made her overpowered, but it doesn't undermine Ash one single bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBattleFrontierAsh1 View Post
    But not so strong to the point where your speedy Koffing can use Gyro Ball so effectively. That's almost as bad as cheating.
    This is the same show where see saw a magikarp basically battle and move at the speed of uber tier pokemon and beat an experienced piplup, and tied with pikachu.
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    SHE asked Ash from where he was. And it wasn't the beggining of Ash's journey in bw it was already the 8th gym he had a well developed team. He didn't used any starter or basic level pokemon.

    Yes Ash and his team go from scratch each generation but 8th gym . Look which level was portrayed by Ash in his 8th Gym battle in Hoen and Sinnoh where his team was restarted as well.

    In which world is a 6 on 3 battle fair and acceptable????
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eneci View Post
    SHE asked Ash from where he was. And it wasn't the beggining of Ash's journey in bw it was already the 8th gym he had a well developed team. He didn't used any starter or basic level pokemon.

    Yes Ash and his team go from scratch each generation but 8th gym . Look which level was portrayed by Ash in his 8th Gym battle in Hoen and Sinnoh where his team was restarted as well.

    In which world is a 6 on 3 battle fair and acceptable????
    Yes, there is only so much a person can level up his Pokemon in one journey: That's what my post said.

    That's what I am saying man. Roxie used a team that's much powerful than Volkner's or Juan's. That's why Ash had to use six Pokemon. Volkner didn't use his iconic Raichu remember? Something that should be as powerful as Flint's Infernape.

    In a world where you try to accept canon writers and don't think of them as brainless fools.

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    This is unfinished Unova, Ash should have full battle with my baby Trip


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    Quote Originally Posted by Airi-Chan View Post
    This is unfinished Unova, Ash should have full battle with my baby Trip
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracoflare View Post
    Yes, there is only so much a person can level up his Pokemon in one journey: That's what my post said.

    That's what I am saying man. Roxie used a team that's much powerful than Volkner's or Juan's. That's why Ash had to use six Pokemon. Volkner didn't use his iconic Raichu remember? Something that should be as powerful as Flint's Infernape.

    In a world where you try to accept canon writers and don't think of them as brainless fools.
    I like your argument. This truly did show that Roxie is a tough gym leader. Btw you should also mention that the gym leaders are allowed to make their own rules. So Roxie challenging Ash to a 6 vs 3 is fair because its her rules.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShinyPokemon inc. View Post
    I like your argument. This truly did show that Roxie is a tough gym leader. Btw you should also mention that the gym leaders are allowed to make their own rules. So Roxie challenging Ash to a 6 vs 3 is fair because its her rules.
    That's flawed logic. I guess Skyla's imaginary gym battles were fair since they were her rules. Volkner giving away badges is fair too since he made the rule




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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFonz View Post
    That's flawed logic. I guess Skyla's imaginary gym battles were fair since they were her rules. Volkner giving away badges is fair too since he made the rule
    I see no harm in gaming the system. Heck if I was lucky enough I would have grabbed an armful of them and start selling them to newb trainers XD as for skyla, it seems that unless you have the power of plot, more often than not her air battles worked as it should have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracoflare View Post
    Yes, there is only so much a person can level up his Pokemon in one journey: That's what my post said.

    That's what I am saying man. Roxie used a team that's much powerful than Volkner's or Juan's. That's why Ash had to use six Pokemon. Volkner didn't use his iconic Raichu remember? Something that should be as powerful as Flint's Infernape.

    In a world where you try to accept canon writers and don't think of them as brainless fools.
    I have to say that I disagree with Roxie being stronger than Volkner or Juan. Her Pokémon are not weak, but Ash's Unova Pokémon are very weak, possibly his weakest team bar his Johto Team, and only because of Krookodile and Leavanny. In fact, Ash could have won this battle with only three Pokémon: Leavanny, Pignite, and Pikachu, the very Pokémon that got wins in that gym. He didn't need the other three. Unfeazant, Palpitoad, and Boldore were practically useless in that gym battle from what I saw. In addition, they have not been portrayed as being very strong save for one battle, each. And with Unfeazant and Boldore it was when they evolved, which is why I came up with the theory that a Pokémon's power is in flux immediately upon evolving and the newly evolved Pokémon could be stronger then than said Pokémon would be after the evolution and the Pokémon's power has stabilized. I don't think that Roxie is on the level of Juan or Volkner. Both of those trainers gave a far stronger Ash than the one Roxie faced a run for his money and I think they would have beaten the Ash that Roxie faced with the Pokémon they used against him in their respective battles.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    I see no harm in gaming the system. Heck if I was lucky enough I would have grabbed an armful of them and start selling them to newb trainers XD as for skyla, it seems that unless you have the power of plot, more often than not her air battles worked as it should have.
    Oh jeez, I just started a debate on PokéEthics. The point I was trying to make is that just because someone sets their own rules does not mean it will always be fair. I think it's unfair for people to get badges they didn't earn and a Gym Leader should battle even if they'll win. Travelers need the experience, Ash's Unfezant certainly needed that experience considering it was the only time it won any battles




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    It's sad that if Static didn't kick in Ash probably would of lost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFonz View Post
    Oh jeez, I just started a debate on PokéEthics. The point I was trying to make is that just because someone sets their own rules does not mean it will always be fair. I think it's unfair for people to get badges they didn't earn and a Gym Leader should battle even if they'll win. Travelers need the experience, Ash's Unfezant certainly needed that experience considering it was the only time it won any battles
    A badge is a badge. That's reason enough for Volkner, besides if it was wrong the league would have came for an audit like they did with pewter city gym. And as for skyla it was obvious that Ash was an anomaly and that out of 100 trials a team of 3 electric types would win a large proportion of the matches while 3 bug types generally wouldn't. As for the experience, it's all subjective, squirtle probably got more experience than charmander did, but charmander evolved much faster. One extra win or loss wouldn't count for much in the long run.

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