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Thread: The Team Flare Thread

  1. #2251
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    Quote Originally Posted by pokemasterz View Post
    Who else wasn't surprised that Lysandre was the team Flare leader? I surly wasn't.
    It wasn't really meant to be a big surprise. It rarely ever is. Cyrus wasn't, N wasn't, Colress wasn't...
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    Quote Originally Posted by pokemasterz View Post
    Who else wasn't surprised that Lysandre was the team Flare leader? I surly wasn't.
    I knew he was, but I was hoping that Xerosic would be the true villain before Lysandre's motives were revealed.
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    I was wanting Sycamore to be the evil mastermind. Maybe if we get Z or X/Y 2 Malva will be the villian or something.
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    Unfortunately for me the villains are always spoiled. With N it was revealed he was in Team Plasma, and before I even met Lysandre his face was plastered all over Youtube. But as a kid, Cyrus, I didn't know was the villain, probably because I didn't know Team Galactic had a leader...
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    The Team Flare scientists had a really minor role in the plot. What is the need to make five of them if they show up all of 3 times in the game? Unless, GF is planning to do something in Z...

    I want Malva to take over the E4 and become the new champion in the next games. That would be exciting. In B2W2, I didn't understand why they switched from Alder to Iris, and as I had Black, not White, I never even encountered Iris in the games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonair7 View Post
    The Team Flare scientists had a really minor role in the plot. What is the need to make five of them if they show up all of 3 times in the game? Unless, GF is planning to do something in Z...
    The Flare Scientists weren't nearly as bad as the Seven Sages. I would say that the Flare Scientists were mostly comparable to the Rocket Executives in HGSS, and the point of those guys was just to make the roadblock bosses a little more diverse and to illustrate the presence of a hierarchical command structure within the team.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Zoroark View Post
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    I agree that 7 was way overboard, but they provided another thing to do post game. After the Looker Bureau, you never see the Team Flare scientists again. My favorite command structure was the 3 admins in DPPt. Maybe because it was the first games I played and my mind was blown but, I found them to be a challenge and frequent enough that they made an impression on me. Also, I feel like the amount of times you encounter the villian team has decreased. The amount that you see Team Flare is very less at the beginning of the game, but it explodes around the 7th gym, rather than being more gradual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonair7 View Post
    I want Malva to take over the E4 and become the new champion in the next games. That would be exciting. In B2W2, I didn't understand why they switched from Alder to Iris, and as I had Black, not White, I never even encountered Iris in the games.
    This is why I want them to do sequels instead of Z, there's too much potential in the storyline in having an Elite 4 member also be part of the evil team, and they can't simply rewrite the storyline for that because the changes would be too drastic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonair7 View Post
    I agree that 7 was way overboard, but they provided another thing to do post game. After the Looker Bureau, you never see the Team Flare scientists again. My favorite command structure was the 3 admins in DPPt. Maybe because it was the first games I played and my mind was blown but, I found them to be a challenge and frequent enough that they made an impression on me. Also, I feel like the amount of times you encounter the villian team has decreased. The amount that you see Team Flare is very less at the beginning of the game, but it explodes around the 7th gym, rather than being more gradual.
    I noticed that with BW2 as well, it seems like both BW2 and XY saw less encounters with the evil team and less impact on the storyline until late in the game. The evil teams were just doing random evil team stuff in the beginning and their motives don't really become clear until later. Really makes the storyline less exciting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    The evil teams were just doing random evil team stuff in the beginning and their motives don't really become clear until later.
    When has this ever not been the case, besides kinda BW1?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    When has this ever not been the case, besides kinda BW1?
    RSE and DPPt, their actions actually served a clear purpose towards their goals. Team Aqua and Magma actually targetted places that fit their land/sea theme. Team Galactic researched Sinnoh's legends so that they could awaken Dialga/Palkia and create a new world. Team Plasma in BW1 went around the region trying to separate people from Pokemon. BW2 and XY, though, they just do random acts that don't really fit a particular theme, they're just being evil for the sake of being evil like Team Rocket were.
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardonX View Post
    Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

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    RSE had the evil team hanging around woods and then hiding in a cave before having their leader finally appear in an aquatic science museum, then they had this thing about a meteorite with a volcano that was related to their end goal but had nothing to do with the legendary

    DPPt had the evil team stealing windmills from Don Quixote or something and then hiding in their spiky building and then doing basically nothing until like the 6th Gym-ish (Celestic in Platinum, Snowpoint in DP)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    RSE had the evil team hanging around woods and then hiding in a cave before having their leader finally appear in an aquatic science museum, then they had this thing about a meteorite with a volcano that was related to their end goal but had nothing to do with the legendary

    DPPt had the evil team stealing windmills from Don Quixote or something and then hiding in their spiky building and then doing basically nothing until like the 6th Gym-ish (Celestic in Platinum, Snowpoint in DP)
    I'd count the Aquatic museum since that is related to the submarine that they would later steal, and as you said the volcano did serve a purpose to their end goal regardless of the legendary. So really the only thing that they did do that was unrelated to their goal was stealing Devon Goods early on.

    Similarly Galactic was stealing energy from the windmills which would serve their purposes as well, it wasn't direct in what it was related to but that still was a point in reaching their goal. There was a lull after the 4th/5th gym but then they pick up again after the 6th gym where you try to stop the admins at the lakes as well as the Celestic town incident before the big conclusion after the 7th gym. So I'd say it was better handled there then it was in XY and B2W2.
    Last edited by Taodragon; 12th February 2014 at 7:00 AM.


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    B2W2 get a pass though because Plasma split between the really bad and the followers of N's "Free the Pokémon" ideology.

    XY is inexcusable. To come this far and deliver a Team so pathetic they might as well have not even bothered. Team Flare was literally a ridiculous non-event with a convoluted plan. I get that they're as vein and shallow as fashionistas but they were really weak and carried out lame plans.

    And let's not get into "well Team Rocket were all mindless" because then I'll just say Giovanni was at least a menacing leader. Lysandre was a wimp.
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    I loved all the gen's teams.
    Even though Aqua/Magma and Galactic/Flare were very similar I still loved them. I've watched many videos on Youtube on every game, theories and such. And each and every team is not as they appear. Team Rocket is one of them that I didn't work out myself and saw on Youtube (ProtonMario I believe his name was who did as to whether Team Rocket really is evil, check it out it's really fascinating)
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    I think Team Flare is my favorite evil team because of how campy they were. I also really liked the goggles all of the bosses wore.



    Granted I didn't play 3rd gen, but from what I've read both teams seemed pretty dumb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    they just do random acts that don't really fit a particular theme, they're just being evil for the sake of being evil like Team Rocket were.
    Hmm, no TF definitely had a reason for doing what they where doing. The problem is you don't understand why they're doing all these things until much later and you can easily miss it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hexin' Wishes View Post
    And let's not get into "well Team Rocket were all mindless" because then I'll just say Giovanni was at least a menacing leader. Lysandre was a wimp.
    Okay then, can I get into how "well Giovanni was mindless" instead? Worst built character right here. But I don't really have any qualms with it since it was GF's first try.
    Last edited by diakyu; 12th February 2014 at 11:23 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by diakyu View Post
    Okay then, can I get into how "well Giovanni was mindless" instead? Worst built character right here. But I don't really have any qualms with it since it was GF's first try.
    We could, but he wasn't any more mindless than Lysandre. Giovanni was pretty much the shady crime lord archetype (pure evil, selfish etc. etc.), Lysandre was an idiot who thought mass genocide was the way to go.

    Giovanni might not have had much character development but you could get a sense of he had no time for the player.
    Last edited by Hexin' Wishes; 12th February 2014 at 11:57 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexin' Wishes View Post
    Giovanni was pretty much the shady crime lord archetype (pure evil, selfish etc. etc.), Lysandre was an idiot who thought mass genocide was the way to go.
    Eh, Lysandre was the smartest person in the entire game imo. And he was the only one who was willingly ready to face the solution to his problem (there is no "correct" solution to Lysandre's problem). Lysandre didn't want to kill most of the people and pokemon on the planet, but he knew he had to if he wanted true peace.

    Heck, even Sycamore was all "well we might all be screwed, but at least we'll all be screwed together" after Lysandre was defeated.
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    He wasn't "smart" at all considering he was the one who had the issue. This whole "Oh I can't stand those people so everyone on the planet must die (except me and my followers* if they pay me xxxo)" was flawed. Even if you "reduce" the population it will not stop the fighting over resources. It's just the law of the land. He was an extremest, he's no different than a terrorist.

    But maybe you're right, maybe the problem was that the game writers didn't do a good job getting across that the world was in danger of anything. Everything, literally, was fine. There was no element of danger because his plan was so over the top and extreme it couldn't work in a game like Pokémon.

    *More on this issue, his followers were either stupid or just plain mean-spirited. He wanted to kill off everyone and leave them? Really?
    Last edited by Hexin' Wishes; 13th February 2014 at 2:30 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexin' Wishes View Post
    But maybe you're right, maybe the problem was that the game writers didn't do a good job getting across that the world was in danger of anything. Everything, literally, was fine. There was no element of danger because his plan was so over the top and extreme it couldn't work in a game like Pokémon.
    This is the real problem. Our view of the pokemon world is that of a heavily sheltered child. We only see the sparkling diamonds and only a few rusted metals every now and again. Some of Lysandre's speeches make it obvious wars are still happening in the Pokemon world, we just never see or hear about them. But for some reason we're okay with hearing and seeing about them if they happened in the past? Double-standard there.

    *More on this issue, his followers were either stupid or just plain mean-spirited. He wanted to kill off everyone and leave them? Really?
    I think this was the point though. By making the entrance fee to TF so high, Lysandre gathered the exact kind of people who he wanted to get rid of.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peace Heavy mk II View Post
    I think Team Flare is my favorite evil team because of how campy they were. I also really liked the goggles all of the bosses wore.
    I like them for this very fact as well; def difficult to forget gals and guys in flaming red suits, shades, and hair. X)


    Granted I didn't play 3rd gen, but from what I've read both teams seemed pretty dumb.


    Quote Originally Posted by diakyu View Post
    This is the real problem. Our view of the pokemon world is that of a heavily sheltered child. We only see the sparkling diamonds and only a few rusted metals every now and again. Some of Lysandre's speeches make it obvious wars are still happening in the Pokemon world, we just never see or hear about them. But for some reason we're okay with hearing and seeing about them if they happened in the past? Double-standard there.


    I think this was the point though. By making the entrance fee to TF so high, Lysandre gathered the exact kind of people who he wanted to get rid of.
    Hmm makes you wonder if...

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    Quote Originally Posted by diakyu View Post
    This is the real problem. Our view of the pokemon world is that of a heavily sheltered child. We only see the sparkling diamonds and only a few rusted metals every now and again. Some of Lysandre's speeches make it obvious wars are still happening in the Pokemon world, we just never see or hear about them. But for some reason we're okay with hearing and seeing about them if they happened in the past? Double-standard there.
    I wouldn't call a teenager (Only the anime makes it clear the characters are 10. The Looker side-quest gave hints that the player was at least around 16 years old.) who travels around the region alone "sheltered" but it's definitely a failure of the writers to not add a presence of greater global issues in the Pokémon world. In the end, the environment they had created was one that was already stunning & peaceful (aside from, ironically, Team Flare coming in) on it's own and that made Lysandre's claims seem overdramatic.

    If we're meant to assume that the Pokémon world experiences the same socio-economic situations that our world is going through, then, to me, that's too much to ask of the player.

    I think this was the point though. By making the entrance fee to TF so high, Lysandre gathered the exact kind of people who he wanted to get rid of.
    Which relates to just how idiotic and foolish he was.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexin' Wishes View Post
    I wouldn't call a teenager (Only the anime makes it clear the characters are 10. The Looker side-quest gave hints that the player was at least around 16 years old.) who travels around the region alone "sheltered" but it's definitely a failure of the writers to not add a presence of greater global issues in the Pokémon world..
    Apologies, I was referring to us as the players. We only ever see the good because that's all gf wants to show.
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    I can understand the entrance fee. To join groups you usually need a fee, you need money and if people are willing to pay that amount it means they really want to fight for the same cause.

    As to why I think they're all the same is Lysandre really wanted a world where there were no wars (Cyrus, love him as I do, only wanted to destroy the current world that he saw impure with himself remaining) whereas Lysandre was willing to sacrifice everything, his dignity and life. Because people can become too great in number wars break out (Has happened in the past in Pokemon so I'll assume Pokemon isn't all cosy but we see it from the main character's view point who is young and in the better areas of the regions) hence why Lysandre saw that cutting people's numbers down was the answer, keep in mind NO ONE stopped him when he was younger, Professor Sycamore admitted he could have stopped this.

    I can't say Lysandre's methods was right, but he was clouded. His bloodline was victims of wars, he hated conflict. He didn't like what he was doing, he believed it was his destiny to do it.

    Of course, there are many theories behind Lysandre's motives, I've analysed the whole of the Pokemon XY dialogue and story line (nope, I don't have a life and it's what I do in my spare time) so believe he is a fallen hero (I looked up the meaning of his names and origins, his English name comes from Lysander who was a greek commander who ended a war.) But people can interpret the way they want to :P Lysandre, Cynthia, Lance, Red and N and many others are my favourite Pokemon characters, all for different reasons.
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    The fee pays for the organization. It all goes to whatever the head wants it to go (be it to fund research or to line his/her pocket). In saying that, it's telling that the kind of people who "fought for the same cause" were either vapid, stupid or callous.

    No one stopped Lysandre from becoming a misanthrope, but that doesn't mean they agreed with him killing off a sizable amount of the population. I don't even think they believed they were at danger until the mascot legendary was brought into the equation.

    The "fallen hero" aspect, arguably, only something you could argue from the English adaption. In Japan, his name is "Fleur-de-lis". A fleur-de-lis is both a decorative symbol of the French monarchy and french for "lily flower". On one hand, it is true to his royal heritage but also his stylized way of living. Lillies have much symbolism as well (including white lillies at a funeral meaning restored innocence after death and the afterlife). His other language names also relate to "lily" and the "afterlife", so I'd take those into more consideration than "Lysander".

    In conclusion, Malva should have been the main villain because she's awesome and menacing in just those few interactions with her.
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