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Thread: The Team Flare Thread

  1. #2276
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    Hmmm I hated Malva at first, wanting to kill me for something I couldn't help... but then I grew to like her after the Looker missions and further reading. I disagree with her being the Team Flare leader for THIS game, but I would love to see her lead the next villainous team in the next game. I mean we haven't had a female be the leader of one of the teams yet, we've had commanders and admins yes, but not leaders. Plus I could see her being a strong leader and her death threats just make me want to get the Arceus out of there!

    I have looked at his other language meanings, made me laugh. Lily is a hardly threatening name xD If he was actually named Lily each time I'd have seen him I would have said 'Oh no guys! It's Lily! He's coming to get us! He's going to decorate our garden!' but that's probably because the name wouldn't have worked in English translations :P Japanese it's fine.
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  2. #2277
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    Well, Malva hated us, the player, for ruining Team Flare's plan. What I can see them do, if they go the sequel route, is have Malva be the villain (and what a cruel, ruthless villain I can see her be) and then have Lysandre come back to the good side after witnessing people burn while they tried to save him (which, is, most likely how it happened).

    I'm not saying his name should have been Lily, but the significance of "lily" definitely seems more up his alley (I mean, he totally wanted to restore the planet's "innocence" through the death of millions).
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  3. #2278
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    Yeah that's what I think will happen too ^_^ Lysandre is too soft to be cold hearted and would probably fight against Team Flare (Or whatever they'll be called) once he finds out he was wrong. But that's more so what I would like to happen too, I see him as corrupted and not evil.

    Oh, don't get me wrong, I didn't think you meant Lysandre's name should have been 'Lily' I was saying that if they didn't change it for English versions and such it would seem so silly :P
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  4. #2279
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    So, Zygarde is the pokemon that would fight for ecological balance ( a kind of restoring order to the world) and Lysandre wanted to reduce the population because humans would eventually use up all the natural resources and destroy the environment and the world would no longer be beautiful. In the sequel, I wonder if Lysandre's heart will react with Zygarde's, and we will find that Zygarde has a Mega Evolution

  5. #2280
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    If AZ was locked in Lysandre Labs, how did he get out of his cage? Did the masked heroes (Sycamore's assistants) unlock his cage or did a Purrloin sneak downstairs and just so happen to press the unlock button?
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  6. #2281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonair7 View Post
    So, Zygarde is the pokemon that would fight for ecological balance ( a kind of restoring order to the world) and Lysandre wanted to reduce the population because humans would eventually use up all the natural resources and destroy the environment and the world would no longer be beautiful. In the sequel, I wonder if Lysandre's heart will react with Zygarde's, and we will find that Zygarde has a Mega Evolution
    Along with humans starting wars over resources, Lysandre hated war.
    Actually that's an interesting thought, because I do think Zygarde will have two mega-evolutions (I personally think Pokemon X and Y2 is more likely then Pokemon Z, probably going to pull another 'Pokemon Gray' on us) but that would sort of explain why Zygarde did absolutely nothing.

    @bigbro- Hmmm actually I don't know xD I forgot he was in that cage, I'll assume Lysandre let him out after he left.
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  7. #2282
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbro223 View Post
    If AZ was locked in Lysandre Labs, how did he get out of his cage? Did the masked heroes (Sycamore's assistants) unlock his cage or did a Purrloin sneak downstairs and just so happen to press the unlock button?
    Considering the guy's a tank he probably could have gotten out himself.


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    There was so much potential with Lysandre and it all sort of fell flat. He talks big, but when you get down to it, his plan makes the least amount of sense of any of them, and I include Archie and Maxie's "disregard science, acquire sea/land" plans in that.

    But I see some of you saying that he was filling his world with the types of people he hated, and that isn't true. I don't know how many of you have found his journal, but he talks in there about how he traveled in his youth and came across people in need, but when he helped them they demanded more, and he essentially came to view them as parasites. While he may talk about wanting to help others, he hates them BECAUSE they need help. And that I think is something a lot of people overlook. He isn't a fallen hero or even a Cyrus-like altruistic misanthrope--he flat out wants them gone because they consume resources.

    Cyrus at least thinks that humanity can be saved, even if it requires him to take such an extreme act. He tells Cynthia that he can never stop trying to bring "justice" to the world, and even his enemies are welcome there because they'll be purged of the elements that forced his hand. But Lys's idea of having people prove themselves is purely monetary, whoever can provide for themselves, essentially. And while the two bosses are very evidently meant to bring the other to mind, in practice they're very different.

    Someone had the theory that Lys's plan was essentially based in classism. I don't fully agree, but I think it merits discussion at least.

    It's frustrating though. He could have been so much more than he was but instead we got what's almost a half-grown sprout of a character.

    Though speaking of, I was wondering what you all think about his chances for survival. I played Y and while I think he's *probably* dead, I admit there's some wiggle room there and could easily buy survival if explained well (possible ways--the machine still causes immortality, or his pokemon shielded him and got him out).
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  9. #2284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackjack Gabbiani View Post
    There was so much potential with Lysandre and it all sort of fell flat. He talks big, but when you get down to it, his plan makes the least amount of sense of any of them, and I include Archie and Maxie's "disregard science, acquire sea/land" plans in that.
    You're going to have to explain yourself here. Lysandre's plan made sense however I look at it. He wanted to kill a bunch of things, and he definitely would have accomplished that. Archie and Maxie are just stupid.


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  10. #2285

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    Because it would have affected only a small area, for one. Even the ancient use only took out a small area of Kalos, much less of the world. His plan for a "beautiful world" would have been a very very small one and would quickly be overcome by outside forces. Of course, it would be unstable anyway, because his sole qualifier for who got to live was based on whoever could pony up 5 mil to him. Without any sort of moral guidelines, that new society would fall apart and become just a sparser version of what we have now, which of course over time would become a wider version until we just catch up with present population.

    And given that at least one of his top officers was undermining him and he was, at least by the end, well aware of how Xerosic really gave no craps about what the end result was as long as he could study it, even his ruling class was going to fall apart.

    So yeah, it just plain wasn't about to work no matter what he did.
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  11. #2286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackjack Gabbiani View Post
    Because it would have affected only a small area, for one. Even the ancient use only took out a small area of Kalos, much less of the world. His plan for a "beautiful world" would have been a very very small one and would quickly be overcome by outside forces.
    That argument relies on the assumption that the weapon can only affect a small area. AZ would have had no need to use it on the entire world; he just wanted to end the war in Kalos. Lysandre's intentions were much larger in scope, so logically, he would use the weapon at its full capacity.
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  12. #2287
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    I posted in another topic about how I was initially kind of disappointed in the story for X. I think one of the problems is that whenever I think about or read about what Lysandre's main goal is, it's summed up as "he wants a beautiful world." That just doesn't seem like a compelling mission for a villainous team for me when you think of it as a team that is extremely shallow and only wants beautiful LOOKING people or things to remain.

    Having Lysandre willing to kill everyone in the world (the point that Endolise made about assuming the weapon had a limited range is a good point) was a pretty dark and drastic measure that showed how far he was willing to go, and that's when I actually got interested in Team Flare. Looking back, the story wasn't as bad as I initially thought. The pacing may have felt a little off, but you come to realize that what Lysandre means by a "beautiful" world is one without the greed, evil, or wars caused by humanity. He really comes off as a flawed villain; one that truly believes that in order to put a stop to wars and the greed of humanity, the world must be started anew. It never really seems like he WANTS to end all life, but that he HAS to. It's kind of reinforced when he sheds a tear at his own mention of having to kill the Pokemon as well. Whether that sounds like a stupid plan to us or not, for someone who has strong convictions it is easy for them to believe they are right when everyone else can point out why it isn't. By reducing the population as he planned, it reduces the odds of those evils from running rampant.

    I don't know. It's really not a black and white thing for me. One the one hand it took me a while to actually get into Team Flare, but on the other hand towards the end I was actually into the story and Lysandre (and in retrospect the story doesn't seem as bad as I thought). It might have helped if there were casual mentions of the war and greed and theft that Lysandre talks about. Even a few mentions via Holo Caster about some war that is currently going on, or Pokemon theft running rampant in Kalos via another villainous team, or something.

    I really want to do another play-through of the game to experience the story once more, but I'm not sure if I really want to start over from scratch with everything (items and BP wise, since I can deposit the Pokemon in Bank).
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  13. #2288
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    I'm going to be honest here, that is the most gayest pose i've ever seen.

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  14. #2289
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    I figure TF made advancements to the machine due to their need for money and energy. Or for all we know they could have used those resources to restore the machine.

    Speaking of the poses, does anyone know why they exactly pose. What's the meaning behind them.
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  15. #2290
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    I don't know if I actually consider Lysandre to be a villian. He is more of an anti-hero. He is fighting for a cause he truly believes in- that humanity is utterly flawed and there is no redemption, and if we are going to kill ourselves off, we shouldn't take Earth with us.

    I always make it a point of talk to all the NPCs and there was one ( a ranger, I think, but I can't remember where he was located) that said that Lysandre was his benefactor and helped him get his start. I agree with Blackjack in that i thought that Lysandre valued self-dependence, and those that couldn't provide for themselves were just leeches on the Earth.

    The overall themes of XY, in retrospect, were very dark. GF superimposed this team that wanted to preserve beauty throug mass murder onto the most beautiful region of all.

    I also really think it was interesting that Lysandre's pokemon could Mega Evolve. Mega Evolution requires a close bond between trainer and pokemon ( at least in theory). Lysandre must have cared for his team and them for him, which shows that he is not a horrible person. Also, he shows regret for having to kill all the pokemon. It isn't as if wants to kill everyone off, but rather as if humanity has forced his hand.

  16. #2291

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    Well if that was the case, then only Giovanni and Ghetsis would be considered villains, and we know that's not the case. Cyrus, Archie, and Maxie all wanted to help the world as well and all did it through utterly wrong ways (though Archie and Maxie were less evil and more holy crap do you guys even know how science works, while Cyrus knew full well what he was doing).

    As far as the weapon goes (it really should have had a specific name), doesn't that also assume that AZ DIDN'T use it at full power, even though he'd honestly, especially knowing what Masuda said about the war being an invasion from outside, have no reason NOT to do so?

    I felt like we should have learned more about AZ's brother, the one Lys is directly descended from. They said he was greedy and craved power, but when the weapon was used he sobered up and became more responsible (I would assume that he became king after AZ...I guess abdicated the throne). Who was he? What was his name? Did his previous greed leave any mark? What did his words of caution do for later generations, including Lys?
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  17. #2292
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    Quote Originally Posted by diakyu View Post
    Speaking of the poses, does anyone know why they exactly pose. What's the meaning behind them.
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  18. #2293
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    I think Game Freak should have integrated Zygarde into the plot somehow, like Rayquaza was in R/S. Like maybe it was the creature that resurrected AZ's Floette.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xernoblade View Post
    I think Game Freak should have integrated Zygarde into the plot somehow, like Rayquaza was in R/S. Like maybe it was the creature that resurrected AZ's Floette.
    Rayquaza was not used at all in RS. Giratina was not used at all in DP. Kyurem was not used at all in BW.

    It's all just for whatever Game comes next, no third member has ever starred or wasplot-involved in the original pair.

  20. #2295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xernoblade View Post
    I think Game Freak should have integrated Zygarde into the plot somehow, like Rayquaza was in R/S. Like maybe it was the creature that resurrected AZ's Floette.
    Rayquaza wasn't integrated into the plot until Emerald, just as Zygarde will not be integrated into the plot until the follow-up game(s) to XY.
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  21. #2296
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    I personally adore Team Flare's silly pose.
    GameFreak got what they wanted by making them comical to try and lighten the mood of the game, otherwise it would have been stupid. It's why they made the Team Galatic grunts look so funny and make fun of them, to not make what they're doing the main cause and make them something to laugh at.
    Team Flare never fail to put a smile on my face because of how darn funny they are with their poses and cheer leading.
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  22. #2297

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    There's a long theory someone posted on tumblr about how the people doing the "official pose" are far and few between and all seem to be undermining Flare's goals. At least one of the "cybergirls" is implicated in it as well. If I find the link I'll post it here.
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  23. #2298
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    Team Flare's vanity is perfectly set in the Kalos region. The graphics make it beautiful, but the beauty is only surface deep. The plot was actually pretty heavy and dark. There was a lot of death for a pokemon game. It certainly wasn't like this in Gen. 3-5.
    @Blackjack what does "official pose" mean? Plz post the link if you find it.

  24. #2299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonair7 View Post
    Team Flare's vanity is perfectly set in the Kalos region. The graphics make it beautiful, but the beauty is only surface deep. The plot was actually pretty heavy and dark. There was a lot of death for a pokemon game. It certainly wasn't like this in Gen. 3-5.
    @Blackjack what does "official pose" mean? Plz post the link if you find it.
    It's that pose which some of the Grunts strat the Battle with, you know, with the hand above their head and he other beside it.

  25. #2300
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    I will admit that, while I think they're the worst Pokémon villainous team ever, I do love Team Flare but that's because they are so absurd and absolutely stupid. Every one of them. Except maybe Malva because she looks like she means business.
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