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Thread: Abortion - Under what circumstances should it be allowed?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garbodor. View Post
    Abortion should be illegal in all country's to prevent any unborn baby being murdered.
    What part of "Countries without legalized abortion have the same abortion rates" do you not understand? It doesn't matter if it's illegal women are going to abort their babies. Making it illegal will do nothing.

    How am I going to make sure that immature,irresponsible sex zombies remember that the ultimate purpose of sex IS reproduction and they should be more careful? education? education is not enough to stop people following their nature which is looking for pleasure without caring for the consequences (in this case it's casual sex)
    Considering how you like to control womens bodies, I'd say locking their vagina up with a cage until she files out paperwork to have a child should suffice. Then we'll have no unwanted pregnancies! Brilliant plan if I say so myself.

    In most of cases, serious capital punishment is great deterrence for preventing something from happening. Only fear of serious punishment will stop abortion. In netherand abortion is still legal and happening. We will bring it down much much more by making abortion illegal.
    Right. Capital Punishment for all! Capital Punishment is the answer! Capital Punishment would have enforced the prohibition! Capital Punishment will stop people from embezzling! Capital Punishment solves all our problems!

    So, no, I do not see it as restricting women's rights but to make women more civilized
    Saying that women are uncivilized because they want to have control over their body is disgusting and you should feel ashamed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightFennekin View Post
    I think we can all agree on this:

    Abortion for No Reason; Bad

    Abortion for Good Reason; Okay

    Can't we just leave it here? -_-
    Well this is a debate on whether it should be legal, and under what circumstances, and 98% of the time abortion does happen, it is because of a means of birth control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moogles View Post
    Considering how you like to control womens bodies, I'd say locking their vagina up with a cage until she files out paperwork to have a child should suffice. Then we'll have no unwanted pregnancies! Brilliant plan if I say so myself.
    Aaaand now it's no longer a debate. This is becoming very reminiscent of Biden vs. Paul...
    Last edited by Yveltal96; 30th July 2013 at 10:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moogles View Post
    Saying that women are uncivilized because they want to have control over their body is disgusting and you should feel ashamed.
    I'm a dude, and the fact he said that makes me see red.

    How are woman uncivilized? If they can abort things to avoid danger?

    Okay, men, shut it, what do girls think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightFennekin View Post
    Why are you so against it! It could be life or death for the women herself! Put yourself in the woman's shoes. Would you want to carry around a child that was a result of a man forcing you to do something against your will? And you do know, they can see crap about the baby before it's born. Scans. Do you want some poor child's life to be ruined by a pregnancy? And I'm not 'all for abortion', I clearly said I am not a fan of older woman killing off their perfectly fine babies.

    Illegal in all cases?

    Okay, let's say I'm a woman, and I got raped. Due to complications, I will die if I don't abort my baby. So I should just be left dying because of people like you? Knowing I will have to die, perhaps in agony, knowing I must die because of people like you? And what if my baby dies, so I just wasted my life for nothing?

    Put yourself in the damn woman's shoes -_-
    Because I am pro-life. I love life and find it hard to go to bed knowing I can be saving lives from murdering savages who kill children because they see the baby as inconvenience.
    There is no way, they can know whether a baby will have complications until after it's born OR it's at a development stage when it is illegal to have a abortion anyway, so your hypothetical scenario is irrelevant.

    Women die in normal childbirth, so should we ban childbirth?

    Of course I don't want a poor women to die in childbirth. I am pro-life in all aspects, that women's life is as important as mine and as important as her unborn baby!
    But your one hypothetical scenario does not make abortion okay. The problem here is, even non-rape abortion is legal. Let the ban all non-rapes first if that's your problem and then we'll debate regarding rape cases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightFennekin View Post
    I'm a dude, and the fact he said that makes me see red.

    How are woman uncivilized? If they can abort things to avoid danger?

    Okay, men, shut it, what do girls think?
    I'm not even sure if there are any girls replying to this thread TBH. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    And again, this is turning into a match of pointing fingers and childish remarks, can we please make this a debate, and not a childish squabble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garbodor. View Post
    So what? They are still killing innocent children no? one death via abortion is bad enough.
    I think you are missing the larger point. If you want to stop (which is impossible, the goal should be to minimize) abortions then somethings need to happen and those don't include making abortion illegal. It boils down to better sex ed and easier acces to family planning health care with a dose of openess to discussing sexuality.

    Also you seem to think that people are going around having abortions all willy-nilly. I hope you realize that is not how things are in the real world. Generally speaking it's a difficult decision to make. Also you seem to think that people are using abortion as an alternative to birth control (condoms and contraceptive, ect.) Which is not necesarrilly the case. And even if they were, you want these people to be responsible for raising a child?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blazekickblaziken View Post
    It boils down to better sex ed and easier acces to family planning health care with a dose of openess to discussing sexuality.
    Thank god, someone with reason. Honestly, if we had better sexual education, the unnecessary abortion cases would be slashed drastically. Especially considering that the abortion cases that do actually have some reason to them, only take up 2% of the reasons for abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightFennekin View Post
    Woman do not die in modern childbirth commonly, so take that and stuff it up your ignorant ***.

    How are woman ****ing savages!? They're just driven by their ****ing right to live a ****ing happy *** life, like a normal person!

    You disgust me. -_-

    So according to you, if I was a woman and I got pregnant and could die, I can just go die, perhaps in agony? Thanks, ignorant dickhead.
    This is becoming unnecessarily vulgar. This is supposed to be a civilized debate, can we please stick to facts instead of personal opinions and flaming?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yveltal96 View Post
    Thank god, someone with reason. Honestly, if we had better sexual education, the unnecessary abortion cases would be slashed drastically. Especially considering that the abortion cases that do actually have some reason to them, only take up 2% of the reasons for abortion



    This is becoming unnecessarily vulgar. This is supposed to be a civilized debate, can we please stick to facts instead of personal opinions and flaming?
    Sorry, I'm a Gender Equalist and it p*sses me off when someone calls a certain sex 'Uncivilized' and stuff.

    Okay, I think we should just educate people more on sex, and have tougher rules on abortion. How about that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightFennekin View Post
    Woman do not die in modern childbirth commonly, so take that and stuff it up your ignorant ***.

    How are woman ****ing savages!? They're just driven by their ****ing right to live a ****ing happy *** life, like a normal person!

    You disgust me. -_-

    So according to you, if I was a woman and I got pregnant and could die, I can just go die, perhaps in agony? Thanks, ignorant dickhead.
    How old are? Why are you insulting me just because I am calling child murders "savages"? You're acting as if I called women in general savages.
    Go grow up and don't come into a debate if you don't even have basic comprehension skills.
    Any person who commits murder is a savage, regardless of their gender. If you can't debate someone, don't resort to insults.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garbodor. View Post
    Yes, any women which kills their child is uncivilized and should be punished. You want me to state that again? Here you go:
    Yes, any women which kills their child is uncivilized and should be punished
    Jesus christ, you make pro-lifers look bad. When I said can we have a real debate, I was talking to everyone you know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garbodor. View Post
    How old are? Why are you insulting me just because I am calling child murders "savages"? You're acting as if I called women in general savages.
    Go grow up and don't come into a debate if you don't even have basic comprehension skills.
    Any person who commits murder is a savage, regardless of their gender. If you can't debate someone, don't resort to insults.
    Ignore age here, that isn't even a factor in this debate. You are all acting like children, just debate for christ sake

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yveltal96 View Post
    Jesus christ, you make pro-lifers look bad. When I said can we have a real debate, I was talking to everyone you know.
    They are attempting to play with my words. Calling a murderer savage is not the same as calling somoene a savage just because of their gender.
    Can you tell me what was wrong with my comment?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garbodor. View Post
    They are attempting to play with my words. Calling a murderer savage is not the same as calling somoene a savage just because of their gender.
    Can you tell me what was wrong with my comment?
    I understand completely, but both sides are in the wrong here. You both are at each others throats like animals twisting each others words. This is a debate, not a test of who has a bigger stick.
    I feel like a god damn mother, just play nice kids.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garbodor. View Post
    How old are? Why are you insulting me just because I am calling child murders "savages"? You're acting as if I called women in general savages.
    Go grow up and don't come into a debate if you don't even have basic comprehension skills.
    Any person who commits murder is a savage, regardless of their gender. If you can't debate someone, don't resort to insults.
    Okay, I don't think any of us have a right to post.

    We are not women. We do not go through this. We do not need to.

    Why should we be allowed to make decisions for women, when it's they themselves who are the ones affected?

    I am sorry for my vulgar language earlier, but as you are a Pro-Life, I am a Gender Equalist, and what you said generally pestered me.

    Personally, I believe this is down to lack of proper sex education, and an increasing amount of problems in the world, such as drinking and smoking while pregnant.

    I believe a simply making the rules on abortion a little harder can sort out this problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yveltal96 View Post
    Why is the whole rape thing constantly used? Abortions from rapes only takes up 0.3% of the reasons abortions occur. 98% use it as birth control. Yes, birth control doesn't always work, but that is why there are multiple forms of it, which is taught to us in sexual education class. You are taught how to be responsible with sex and how to use contraception properly, and the times birth control doesn't work, is if they skip taking it a day, and don't change to a different birth control, if the condom breaks because they either used a very cheap one, or didn't put it on properly. There is more than one way to use birth control, as I said, there is spermicide, women's condoms, regular birth control, and much much more, and it is their job to use it properly, and not make us pay tax dollars for both their sexual education, and their abortion, because they didn't learn how to use the contraception. And again, just because I am pro-life, doesn't mean I am anti-women, it just means I think there are other ways than just abortion, and that if they don't want the baby in the first place, men and women both need to know how to use birth control properly. Even if a girl is using birth control, you still gotta wrap your tool. It's just common sense that is (supposedly) beaten into our brains in sexual education class.
    It's constantly brought up because it's a viable situation and invokes actual thought regarding whether we think a woman should have to be forced to relive a trauma. It's a completely sound moral question that makes people wonder where the parameters in their moral views on abortion should be drawn. You can't just dismiss it as an argument because it doesn't happen as often. It's not entirely a statistical matter, and to treat it as one and to dismiss a moral qualm is ridiculous. "The choice to abort" debate is all about personal morality in how you see health care, where life begins, and the rights of women. Also the majority of this speech is basically "People need to get educated but I don't want to waste tax dollars on getting educated" unless I severely misread that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blazekickblaziken View Post
    I think you are missing the larger point. If you want to stop (which is impossible, the goal should be to minimize) abortions then somethings need to happen and those don't include making abortion illegal. It boils down to better sex ed and easier acces to family planning health care with a dose of openess to discussing sexuality.
    This is basically it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Garbodor. View Post
    Yes, any women which kills their child is uncivilized and should be punished
    It's hard to man-up to misogyny. Props.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yveltal96 View Post
    Keep your legs closed
    People are going to have sex. It's human nature. No amount of "**** shaming" is going to change that
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blazekickblaziken View Post
    I think you are missing the larger point. If you want to stop (which is impossible, the goal should be to minimize) abortions then somethings need to happen and those don't include making abortion illegal. It boils down to better sex ed and easier acces to family planning health care with a dose of openess to discussing sexuality.

    Also you seem to think that people are going around having abortions all willy-nilly. I hope you realize that is not how things are in the real world. Generally speaking it's a difficult decision to make. Also you seem to think that people are using abortion as an alternative to birth control (condoms and contraceptive, ect.) Which is not necesarrilly the case. And even if they were, you want these people to be responsible for raising a child?
    I never said, making abortion illegal will bring the numbers down to 0. However, it will greatly reduce the number and it will make people think of why it is illegal. This will educate people much better than sex ed. I had sex ed and did not see how it would reduce abortion tbh. Maybe mine was different to yours but our sex ed just made people more aware about sex.

    Now, your second point was good. No, I do not want them to raise the child but it's better than killing the child. In country I live in, I see many young teenage parents and I know the other alternative was abortion. I never said the choice was easy, but if I can choose between life and death then I will choose life. In country's where people are poorer things are different there and people are more mature there... They don't go left and right creating many kids due to casual sex but their children are created because they chose to create them. their parents are much more good at discipline and they don't have too much of the fooling around by having too much casual sex.
    Last edited by Garbodor.; 30th July 2013 at 11:19 PM.

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    Roe vs Wade was passed based on lies.
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...e-v-wade-case/

    Abortion should be legal under very limited circumstances.
    Stand by for political rant that no one else really cares about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garbodor. View Post
    Because I am pro-life. I love life and find it hard to go to bed knowing I can be saving lives from murdering savages who kill children because they see the baby as inconvenience.
    Hi. Can you stop spouting this emotionally manipulative crap? Debate properly instead of vomiting "I want to save lives!!! Murderers!!" all over the thread. Abortion is not murder. That's the whole point of the debate.

    And how dare you all women who seek abortions "murderous savages". Abortion is not an over night decision. They do not seek abortions because the baby is an "inconvenience". Anybody who seeks abortion thinks long and hard about their decision, and they are oftentimes heartbroken afterwards. Women do not want to be in that position, they do not want to have to abort their baby and they are not murderous savages. You whined earlier on after a tongue in cheek comment about your feminism stance and yet you think it's okay to march in here and blanket every aborting woman as some sort of savage? Come on now.

    In most of cases, serious capital punishment is great deterrence for preventing something from happening. Only fear of serious punishment will stop abortion.
    This is utterly insane. Think about what you're saying. Executing anybody who gets an abortion won't solve anything.

    We will bring it down much much more by making abortion illegal.
    No it won't. Are you just deliberately glazing over Moogles' posts?
    Last edited by Grey Wind; 30th July 2013 at 11:58 PM. Reason: can we insult people in this box

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garbodor. View Post
    I never said, making abortion illegal will bring the numbers down to 0. However, it will greatly reduce the number and it will make people think of why it is illegal. This will educate people much better than sex ed. I had sex ed and did not see how it would reduce abortion tbh. Maybe mine was different to yours but our sex ed just made people more aware about sex.

    Now, your second point was good. No, I do not want them to raise the child but it's better than killing the child. In country I live in, I see many young teenage parents and I know the other alternative was abortion. I never said the choice was easy, but if I can choose between life and death then I will choose life. In country's where people are poorer things are different there and people are more mature there... They don't go left and right creating many kids due to casual sex but their children are created because they chose to create them.
    Yes, but that is just you. You are basing this purely off of your own opinion, with no regards for other opinion.

    And I believe you are exaggerating. Woman don't just feel like not having a baby and then pop down to the doctor's to get a casual abortion. It is a life changing choice, which can bring serious regrets later on either choice.

    That is because they can't feed all the children, and yes, I agree, they are wiser.

    I blame this all on The Kardashians and Jersey Shore lack of Sex Ed and TV influence, as well as online porn during teenage years, which leads to imitation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moogles View Post
    It's constantly brought up because it's a viable situation and invokes actual thought regarding whether we think a woman should have to be forced to relive a trauma. It's a completely sound moral question that makes people wonder where the parameters in their moral views on abortion should be drawn. You can't just dismiss it as an argument because it doesn't happen as often. It's not entirely a statistical matter, and to treat it as one and to dismiss a moral qualm is ridiculous. "The choice to abort" debate is all about personal morality in how you see health care, where life begins, and the rights of women.
    I am not saying that the moral issue you have going on there isn't a problem, but rape takes up such a minuscule portion of the reasons for abortion. I know it isn't proper to bring in personal accounts, but I am friends with an older woman (roughly 28) and she has been raped, and impregnated twice. She decided to keep the children, and she loves them dearly, and doesn't go through any "trauma" when she is around them. I know this may not be the same case for all women, but from what I have seen most women do not experience trauma from their children. Don't you think it's a little ridiculous to say that the child will cause trauma?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moogles View Post
    Also the majority of this speech is basically "People need to get educated but I don't want to waste tax dollars on getting educated" unless I severely misread that.
    Yeah, you completely misread that. I said I would rather pay for their sex ed instead of their sex ed and their abortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by WizardTrubbish View Post
    People are going to have sex. It's human nature. No amount of "**** shaming" is going to change that
    I was obviously joking bro.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valoo. View Post
    Hi. Can you stop spouting this emotionally manipulative crap? Debate properly instead of vomiting "I want to save lives!!! Murderers!!" all over the thread. Abortion is not murder. That's the whole point of the debate.

    And how dare you all women who seek abortions "murderous savages". Abortion is not an over night decision. They do not seek abortions because the baby is an "inconvenience". Anybody who seeks abortion thinks long and hard about their decision, and they are oftentimes heartbroken afterwards. Women do not want to be in that position, they do not want to have to abort their baby and they are not murderous savages. You whined earlier on after a tongue in cheek comment about your feminism stance and yet you think it's okay to march in here and blanket every aborting woman as some sort of savage? Get over yourself.


    :V


    You are utterly insane. Think about what you're saying.


    No it won't. Are you just deliberately glazing over Moogles' posts?

    First of all don't call my comment "crap" just because you don't agree with it because your replies to my comment and pathetic and cheap. You made no real counter to what I said except calling me insane.

    Yes, I do see anyone who kills someone as savages because murder is just plain wrong.
    The only time a women is in any right to truly be sad about abortion is due to rape cases and I wish I could make their life easier but in majority of the cases women are not so sad because if they truly cared then they would had been careful and not play with sex and then get pregnant and just kill the child.
    I know how difficult it will be for a women who has been raped, but they need to think about the innocent baby who has done nothing wrong and is innocent. No one said this was easy, Rape is a horrible experience for a women even without abortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightFennekin View Post
    Yes, but that is just you. You are basing this purely off of your own opinion, with no regards for other opinion.


    That is because they can't feed all the children, and yes, I agree, they are wiser.

    I blame this all on The Kardashians and Jersey Shore lack of Sex Ed and TV influence, as well as online porn during teenage years, which leads to imitation.
    What made you think I am not for gender equality just because I called women who kill their child savages?
    My mother is the most important person in the world to me and I know how difficult it can be for women, especially one whose husband left her with 5 kids.
    I stand with women on equality, but abortion is just something else.

    I totally agree with your last comment though. This increase in sex in music,TV is really manipulating kids from a early age and makes them think sex is like a toy.
    Don't get me wrong, I have had sexual relationships myself but I really really don't see why a man or a women cannot control themselves and not go crazy and end up creating a innocent life which they see as a inconvenience.

    BTW, in all except cases both men and women are responsible equality. in rape cases, of course the man should be given capital punishment.
    Last edited by Garbodor.; 30th July 2013 at 11:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garbodor. View Post
    However, it will greatly reduce the number and it will make people think of why it is illegal.
    Sort of like how prohibition worked out so well, or how the War on Drugs is really stopping drug use... oh wait.

    Banning abortions is just going to create a black market. If a woman wants an abortion, she's going to get an abortion, it's that simple.

    but in majority of the cases women are not so sad because if they truly cared then they would had been careful and not play with sex and then get pregnant and just kill the child.
    Wait, what? Just because the child has not been conceived from rape, doesn't mean it isn't a difficult decision. No woman wants to have an abortion. And people are going to have sex. it's simply human nature, and birth control is not 100% effective.
    Last edited by YourFavoriteUser; 30th July 2013 at 11:29 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WizardTrubbish View Post
    Sort of like how prohibition worked out so well, or how the War on Drugs is really stopping drug use... oh wait.

    Banning abortions is just going to create a black market. If a woman wants an abortion, she's going to get an abortion, it's that simple.
    Or, an alternative that I find very reasonable, that most of us can be happy about, is just better sexual education. That would, if received well, could potentially slash the number of unnecessary abortions drastically. 98% of the abortions that occur, are as a means of birth control, so if they can learn how to use proper birth control correctly, then that will definitely cut down the amount of unnecessary abortions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yveltal96 View Post
    98% of the abortions that occur, are as a means of birth control,
    You're right about the sex-ed thing, but this is just false. The majority of women get an abortion due to contraceptive failures. As in, they had already tried birth control, and it didn't work

    http://women.webmd.com/tc/abortion-r...hoose-abortion
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    Quote Originally Posted by WizardTrubbish View Post
    You're right about the sex-ed thing, but this is just false. The majority of women get an abortion due to contraceptive failures. As in, they had already tried birth control, and it didn't work

    http://women.webmd.com/tc/abortion-r...hoose-abortion
    Well, I did forget to mention what else falls into that category, but that does fall under it, but that is where better education on it comes in. If they learn how to use it properly that entire 98% could potentially be knocked down a lot. There are reasons in that 98% such as not being financially ready to care for the child, but that is where adoption comes in. Yeah, the adoption system is not perfect, but it can be reformed. I have friends that are foster parents, and the reason it doesn't work well, is because the workers have no concern for the children, and better staff selection could potentially solve that problem.

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