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Thread: Best Wishes Until We Meet Again! (802)

  1. #101

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    They missed the opportunity with Iris. She could have her last "Kodomo ne" to Ash with tears in her eyes.

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    No. Just stop it Cyber.

    Move your BW hate somewhere else.
    Gotta agree, he is right.

    There was absolutely no emotion whatsoever in this departure and throughout the saga there hasn't really been many (if any at all) special bonding moments beside the Iris and Ash break up episode at the end, and coincidentally the whole episode revolved around the hating each other. The three have been good friends as can evidently be seen with their good happy chemistry together, but that's it.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter ゴースト View Post
    There was absolutely no emotion whatsoever in this departure and throughout the saga there hasn't really been many (if any at all) special bonding moments beside the Iris and Ash break up episode at the end, and coincidentally the whole episode revolved around the hating each other. The three have been good friends as can evidently be seen with their good happy chemistry together, but that's it.
    No, they're as good friends to Ash as any of his other companions. Stop trying to put others above Iris and Cilan.


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  4. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    No, they're as good friends to Ash as any of his other companions. Stop trying to put others above Iris and Cilan.
    I never said they weren't as good friends to Ash as any other, but they have had the worst departure in terms of no development, no emotion and little remorse in leaving Ash.

    If you genuinely don't see that then fine.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter ゴースト View Post
    I never said they weren't as good friends to Ash as any other, but they have had the worst departure in terms of no development, no emotion and little remorse in leaving Ash.
    I agree that Iris and Cilan should have got more build up to their departure and I hate the fact TR got so much focus, but I don't think that just because a departure doesn't show someone crying or teary that it's a bad departure. This was, imo, a subtle and sweet departure. The title says 'Until the day we meet again', and they surely will meet again. Why bother with all the drama and stuff when we KNOW they will make a cameo in the future?

    And why would they feel remorse in leaving Ash? He's not alone, he's with Alexa and is going to Pallet. He won't be alone.

    And let me just point out that Tomioka didn't write this departure. The person who wrote this episode clearly thought of it as a Rocket episode which is why this episode wasn't as BW trio focused as it should have been.
    Last edited by Janovy; 24th September 2013 at 3:48 PM.


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  6. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    I agree that Iris and Cilan should have got more build up to their departure and I hate the fact TR got so much focus, but I don't think that just because a departure doesn't show someone crying or teary that it's a bad departure. This was, imo, a subtle and sweet departure.
    Fair enough, that's your opinion. It's not that it wasn't emotional that made it bad for me (may have used the wrong word there) but the fact that the departure was so sudden and had no real conversation talking about the good times they've had, how good of friends they are was disappointing. They literally sat together for one minute as Cilan and Iris stated what they wanted to do, then they said goodbye and that was literally it.

    The emotional moments are just a bonus to the goodbye episodes in my opinion.

    The title says 'Until the day we meet again', and they surely will meet again. Why bother with all the drama and stuff when we KNOW they will make a cameo in the future?
    Because that happens with every companion and the majority got a good departure episode.

    (imo).

    And why would they feel remorse in leaving Ash? He's not alone, he's with Alexa and is going to Pallet. He won't be alone.
    Again, probably not the best word. What I mean is that neither of them were really sad in leaving Ash, none of them were at the slightest disappointed or shocked that they were all leaving separate ways.

    And let me just point out that Tomioka didn't write this departure. The person who wrote this episode clearly thought of it as a Rocket episode which is why this episode wasn't as BW trio focused as it should have been.
    This is why i dislike the writing of BW so much.

    Any writer with common sense would understand that the goodbye should have been more important than TR doing the exact same thing they had been doing constantly for the past 19 episodes of DA.

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter ゴースト View Post
    Because that happens with every companion and the majority got a good departure episode.
    I'm still waiting for the Metapod Samurai guy to appear. It's been fifteen years already...

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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter ゴースト View Post
    Because that happens with every companion and the majority got a good departure episode.
    I don't remember the AG/BF departures being particularly saddening and emotional.


    ....and now, her story begins.

  9. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by AuraChannelerChris View Post
    I'm still waiting for the Metapod Samurai guy to appear. It's been fifteen years already...
    Yeah - he should have returned in DA!EP2 it should have been Samurai.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    I don't remember the AG/BF departures being particularly saddening and emotional.
    The first departure was nothing, but you could argue that this was intentional since the writers knew they would return an episode later. As for BF, much more dialogue was given for the departure as they sat together, Max walked away upset and Ash had to talk to him that they'll always be friends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    I don't remember the AG/BF departures being particularly saddening and emotional.
    To be brutally honest, DP didnt have an emotional departure imo. Ash's and Dawn's high five was cool, but imo it wasnt emotional. Of course this is my opinion

  11. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSirPeras View Post
    To be brutally honest, DP didnt have an emotional departure imo. Ash's and Dawn's high five was cool, but imo it wasnt emotional. Of course this is my opinion
    The whole episode revolved around Piplup realizing they were going to separate, it then ran away crying.



    As for Dawn, she showed a moment of sadness with her head down before snapping out of it and waving (much like how Ash did for Butterfree).



    -----

    To be honest, i'm surprised Axew didn't get any goodbye moment. Especially with Scraggy, it felt like their friendship was pointless.

  12. #112
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    Haunter, I don't know, I just didn't find it sad. Might be because I watched it once like a year and a half ago but I don't remember really feeling emotional. Might also be because by then I was kinda fed up with Piplup

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter ゴースト View Post
    The whole episode revolved around Piplup realizing they were going to separate, it then ran away crying.



    As for Dawn, she showed a moment of sadness with her head down before snapping out of it and waving (much like how Ash did for Butterfree).



    -----

    To be honest, i'm surprised Axew didn't get any goodbye moment. Especially with Scraggy, it felt like their friendship was pointless.
    The episode was emotional merely because of Piplup. Only Dawn seemed sad at the end.

    The trio itself didn't seem generally sad about separating either.


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  14. #114
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    "Memories Are Made of Bliss" actually was as good as "Gotta Catch Ya Later" for me. I didn't love the last BF episode and I haven't watched this episode yet.

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    Team Rocket interrupts with a scheme that takes up half the episode, and and Iris and Cilan (who are uncharacteristically happy about travelling despite being sad at the thought of separating earlier in the saga) are rushed away with only a flashback montage. I don't like these 2 but even I felt that the duo deserved a proper farewell.
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  16. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSirPeras View Post
    Haunter, I don't know, I just didn't find it sad. Might be because I watched it once like a year and a half ago but I don't remember really feeling emotional. Might also be because by then I was kinda fed up with Piplup
    Fair enough, personally for me it wasn't that sad HOWEVER the intention was completely there and for anybody else i can see why it would be upsetting. BW does not give that feeling at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    The episode was emotional merely because of Piplup. Only Dawn seemed sad at the end.

    The trio itself didn't seem generally sad about separating either.
    That's irrelevant to what we were talking about. The fact is this was a departure episode given the focus that the gang all realized they were seperating. Dawn was sad, and Ash showed his friendship with Dawn with the high five. Ash and Brocks goodbye was short and sweet where they actually wished each other the best for the goals, shaking hands after.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemaniac24 View Post
    "Memories Are Made of Bliss" actually was as good as "Gotta Catch Ya Later" for me. I didn't love the last BF episode and I haven't watched this episode yet.
    Yeah they were both emotional episodes.

    AG/BF was semi-emotional in my eyes.

    BW just wasn't sad at all and nothing made it seem important that they were seperating.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter ゴースト View Post
    AG/BF was semi-emotional in my eyes.
    Fair enough, then BW was semi-emotional in my eyes too.


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  18. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    Fair enough, then BW was semi-emotional in my eyes too.
    Yeah, it's all down to opinion at the end of the day.

    For me it goes like this:

    -OS = Emotional
    -AG = Semi-Emotional
    -DP = Emotional
    -BW = Nothing.

    My main reason is because for the OS, AG and DP - the episodes main focus was the gang saying goodbye. Things felt full circle (especially in DP with Ash running back to Pallet) like we truly had come to the end of the saga. BW really didn't give me that feel with Cilan and Iris leaving since none of them really spoke about leaving each other, the main bulk of the episode was purely TR attacking. When TR attacked in the other episodes they were gone in minutes.

    Anyway, that's mainly my thoughts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter ゴースト View Post
    Fair enough, personally for me it wasn't that sad HOWEVER the intention was completely there and for anybody else i can see why it would be upsetting. BW does not give that feeling at all.



    That's irrelevant to what we were talking about. The fact is this was a departure episode given the focus that the gang all realized they were seperating. Dawn was sad, and Ash showed his friendship with Dawn with the high five. Ash and Brocks goodbye was short and sweet where they actually wished each other the best for the goals, shaking hands after.



    Yeah they were both emotional episodes.

    AG/BF was semi-emotional in my eyes.

    BW just wasn't sad at all and nothing made it seem important that they were seperating.
    If every Departure was always about them being sad about seprating, then neither one would have their own identity. OS was uderstandable as Brock and Misty were Ash's first travel partners, AG they part ways twice in that saga to mostly go their own way. DP, Piplup didn't want his friedns to go, and we know Piplup's personality that he does need to be a big boy.

    BW has it's many flaws, but just becuase Ash, Cilan, and Iris didn't show emotion about sepreating doen't make it bad. And about the Axew and Scraggy friendship, last time I check, everyone kept bring up this "final battle" and it was the only thing perople expected from them if they parted ways (one of many people kept expecting). So their friendship wasn't pointless, but people expected way too much from it and BW in general.

  20. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hero of Ideals View Post
    If every Departure was always about them being sad about seprating, then neither one would have their own identity. OS was uderstandable as Brock and Misty were Ash's first travel partners, AG they part ways twice in that saga to mostly go their own way. DP, Piplup didn't want his friedns to go, and we know Piplup's personality that he does need to be a big boy.

    BW has it's many flaws, but just becuase Ash, Cilan, and Iris didn't show emotion about sepreating doen't make it bad. And about the Axew and Scraggy friendship, last time I check, everyone kept bring up this "final battle" and it was the only thing perople expected from them if they parted ways (one of many people kept expecting). So their friendship wasn't pointless, but people expected way too much from it and BW in general.
    I'm not talking about them not all being emotional, it's the fact that nothing made it stand out as a goodbye. No build-up, nothing. The departure literally consisted of Iris and Cilan suddenly decide to go somewhere completely different after spending 19 episodes travelling to Kanto, and jumping on the train right away with no real goodbye dialogue or small paragraph about their times together. It felt like they hadn't even been travelling together and that they were merely cotd's who were leaving instead.

    In OS, Brock and Misty had to go their seperate ways for reasons which were explained, and Ash was sad. They spoke about how they will always be friends and exchanged gifts.

    In AG/BF (the second time), they all spoke about their time together and Max got upset. Ash comforted him that they'd always be friends. They then left where May was shown to have a slight disappointment.

    In DP, Dawn and Piplup realize both Ash and Brock are off to Kanto and Piplup gets upset. The gang all help out and eventually comfort Piplup. Ash and Dawn high five each other saying they're friends and such, and she shows slight disappointment as they leave. Ash and Brock rooted for each others goals and hand shaked.

    BW, see what i mean?

    The gang sat down at the table, Iris said what she wanted to do next, Cilan said what he wanted to do next, Ash looked at them and the next thing we know they were on a train saying goodbye at the most.

    Such a shame.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    No. Just stop it Cyber.

    Move your BW hate somewhere else.
    Leave him alone, he is just upset bacause May is the only former main character that hasn't had a special yet

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    I'm honestly beginning to suspect most people on this board didn't actually watch BW. Or more specifically: they watched, but they didn't really pay attention. The parts of their brain that actually receives the stuff in the episodes was blocked by a big "THIS IS DIFFERENT! WHY IS IT DIFFERENT!? WHY ISN'T THIS EXACTLY LIKE AG/DP!?" tumor.
    Excellent!, you, sir are a VERY intelligent person, I couldn't said it better (or at least not in a way that could end up in another warning (-_-))

    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    You forgot to mention the Deino episode as the build-up for her being able to read the hearts of dragons.

    Also, connecting with Dragonite and getting him to listen to her took work. That's working for her goal, in my view.

    Iris very clearly HAD her own storyline, but it wasn't done in the co-star/coordinator way and RAR! DIFFERENT BAD!
    Another sign of fandom's selective memory, they said Iris did nothing with Axew, but still, Axew could kick Goldeen's, Horsea's, Psyduck's and Starmie's rears

    People seems to forget that Iris started following Ash when he told her about Zekrom, and is not a secret she wanted to see it as well

    I still see BW Trio way superior than DP Trio in terms of chemistry, interactions and bonding, they felt equally about screentime (screentime =/= distribution of the same) and they really felt like three friends travelling together instead of Ash and his cheerleaders worshiping kissing the ground he steps, come on, Brock had 4 departures and none of them were "emotive" or had build up (-_-)

    FIRST DEPARTURE: Boobs!, see ya guys
    SECOND DEPARTURE: I gotta go home because of it
    THIRD DEPARTURE: Bye
    FOURTH DEPARTURE: After 12 years I discovered my REAL vocation, bye

    Ash, Iris and Cilan were close, they just didn't cried their eyes out because they aren't like that.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter ゴースト View Post
    I'm not talking about them not all being emotional, it's the fact that nothing made it stand out as a goodbye. No build-up, nothing. The departure literally consisted of Iris and Cilan suddenly decide to go somewhere completely different after spending 19 episodes travelling to Kanto, and jumping on the train right away with no real goodbye dialogue or small paragraph about their times together. It felt like they hadn't even been travelling together and that they were merely cotd's who were leaving instead.

    In OS, Brock and Misty had to go their seperate ways for reasons which were explained, and Ash was sad. They spoke about how they will always be friends and exchanged gifts.

    In AG/BF (the second time), they all spoke about their time together and Max got upset. Ash comforted him that they'd always be friends. They then left where May was shown to have a slight disappointment.

    In DP, Dawn and Piplup realize both Ash and Brock are off to Kanto and Piplup gets upset. The gang all help out and eventually comfort Piplup. Ash and Dawn high five each other saying they're friends and such, and she shows slight disappointment as they leave. Ash and Brock rooted for each others goals and hand shaked.

    BW, see what i mean?

    The gang sat down at the table, Iris said what she wanted to do next, Cilan said what he wanted to do next, Ash looked at them and the next thing we know they were on a train saying goodbye at the most.

    Such a shame.
    Maybe comparing those to BW isn't a good idea. So what you're saying they aren't Ash's friends because they didn't have a memotional good bye and comparing them to cotds?

  23. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hero of Ideals View Post
    Maybe comparing those to BW isn't a good idea.
    That's my point.

    I want to make it clear that... I DID ENJOY THE EPISODE AND FINAL MOMENTS OF THE DEPARTURE, IT JUST COULD HAVE BEEN 20X BETTER AS IT DOESN'T COMPARE HALF TO ANY OTHER SAGAS AND CILAN AND IRIS DESERVED A GOOD DEPARTURE.

    So what you're saying they aren't Ash's friends because they didn't have a memotional good bye and comparing them to cotds?

    No, I never said that. Don't twist words.

    They were Ash's friends, but the writing of the departure made them feel very insignificant, however it fits with the writing of the entire saga in which they were friends but barely any bonding moments took place besides the Iris and Ash fall out and become friends again episode, the coincidental part being that they spent the entire episode hating each other.

  24. #124
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    Gotta agree with Haunter here... the departure was pretty much lacking. Didn't feel like a departure episode because TR took up most of the scheduled timing. It doesn't have to be emotionally draining, but to just flat out say were leaving with only Ash having the memories, it really didn't feel like this group was connected.
    Last edited by Encyclopika; 24th September 2013 at 10:54 PM.
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  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    it really didn't feel like this group was as connected as the BW fanatics claim that it was.
    Fanatics huh? Now people who like BW are fanatics?

    So what should we call people who dislike BW - haters?


    ....and now, her story begins.

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