View Poll Results: Who is your favorite starter?

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  • Grass-type, Chespin

    246 21.35%
  • Fire-type, Fennekin

    327 28.39%
  • Water-type, Froakie

    480 41.67%
  • None of the above. GOOMY!

    99 8.59%
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Thread: Starters Discussion Thread v2

  1. #1051
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    Consider yourself lucky. Once there will be the Pokebank and Sludge Wave it's going to be harder to beat them.
    Gengar can't learn sludge wave, not even in gen 5...
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  2. #1052
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXD17 View Post
    Gengar can't learn sludge wave, not even in gen 5...
    Gastly's from the DW knew it.

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  3. #1053
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    Froakie was my starter! However, I have hatched ashiny Fennekin using the Masuda Method! I love both my Greninja and my foxy thing.

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  4. #1054
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    Hm still stuck between Fennekin and Chespin. I actually might get Fennekin..
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  5. #1055
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    am I the only one who chuckled at the fact that Gogoat has 1 BST higher than Greninja and Chesnaught

  6. #1056
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    I really regret choosing Fennekin, Delphox is ****.

    I really ought to have picked Froakie for Greninja!
    Too much water guys!

  7. #1057
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomatohater View Post
    I really regret choosing Fennekin, Delphox is ****.

    I really ought to have picked Froakie for Greninja!
    I, to the contrary, don't regret that. She is my most powerful and reliable member of my team. Sure, it may suck in the competitive battling but in-game it's really strong.
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  8. #1058
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    I, to the contrary, don't regret that. She is my most powerful and reliable member of my team. Sure, it may suck in the competitive battling but in-game it's really strong.
    i know what you mean. i didn't choose delphox, but having used it i think it is really good. many pokemon are great in game, but a cr@p in competitive play.

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  9. #1059
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomatohater View Post
    I really regret choosing Fennekin, Delphox is ****.

    I really ought to have picked Froakie for Greninja!
    I've used both Delphox and Greninja, and beat the game with Delphox (was planning to do it with the frog, but I restarted). I found Delphox to be better- Greninja has a better moveset overall, with stuff in game like Surf, Night Slash, Acrobatics, Shadow Sneak, Ice Beam, Return/Round and things like that (those were moves I thought of from the back of my head, not moves I'd probably use like Return). But it lacked power, whereas Delphox and it's line had that power. Psybeam/Psyshock/Psychic and Fire move (Ember/Flame Charge/Mystic Fire/Flamethrower) would've got me through the game fine- I ran Grass Knot and Shadow Ball for coverage and cleared the game easy. I'll be starting Y again later, and I'll probably pick Froakie.

    What's the Chespin line like? I feel like it misses out on a lot of power compared to the other starters (espcially middle stage- Quilladin gets no better Grass move until it's mid 20's early 30s, or even another coverage move, whereas Frogadier and Braixen get Water Pulse and Psybeam respectively).

  10. #1060
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    Chespin gets Seed Bomb by level 32 and Take Down by 27 which are pretty powerful moves. Chespin gets Leech Seed, Bite and Needle Arm very early too.
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  11. #1061
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    Quote Originally Posted by ((JAWS)) View Post
    Chespin gets Seed Bomb by level 32 and Take Down by 27 which are pretty powerful moves. Chespin gets Leech Seed, Bite and Needle Arm very early too.
    yeah

    that's what he meant by "Quilladin gets no better Grass move until it's mid 20's early 30s"

    Take Down isn't STAB, Needle Arm at 26 is the same bp as Water Pulse at 14



    though it's not like Braixen is getting anything better than non-STAB Psybeam either, so meh

  12. #1062
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomatohater View Post
    I really regret choosing Fennekin, Delphox is ****.

    I really ought to have picked Froakie for Greninja!
    Everyone seems to be going with Froakie but from what I have heard he has no raw power. Fennekin overall seems like the most powerful but the final evolution is just not appealing to me. Chesnaught seems like the way to go but he doesn't have a great learnset.
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  13. #1063
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    Greninja: 95 Base Attack, 103 Base Special Attack.
    Delphox: 69 Base Attack, 114 Base Special Attack,
    Chesnaught: 107 Base Attack, 74 Base Special Attack

    And why do you think it has no power?


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  14. #1064
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    In-game with Braixen, having early Psybeam gives it useful additional coverage, and something to hit Rock and even Water types with early on. It's also has a nice base 90 Special Attack, so lacking STAB on Psybeam doesn't hurt its effectiveness too much. It also gives Braixen an additional edge over Korrina despite lacking STAB. I'd say in terms of beating gyms, Fennekin has the greatest advantage.

    Fennekin overall gets a natural advantage in 5 of 8 gyms, 6 if you want to count Shadow Ball move relearned for Olympia (Slowking is an issue, though). It's also only weak to Grant and has Psybeam to at least deal damage back if needed. It worked for me, at least, except Tyrunt's Bite hurts.

    Froakie gets an advantage over 3 gyms, lacking a strong Dark type move for Olympia since you can't even obtain Dark Pulse until later. The best it has is Thief TM or Feint Attack via Move Relearner. He does resist Wulfric's Ice type moves, though, and can hit back with Rock type moves thanks to Smack Down or Rock Tomb. However, he has the problems with Ramos and Clemont, and Valerie upon becoming Dark type. Being so frail doesn't help too much.

    Chespin has an advantage over 4 gyms, Viola being one thanks to Rollout. Clemont can't do too much to Grass, so that's self-explanatory. Despite the advantage over Rock, Grant himself doesn't fear Grass too much thanks to his team's typings. And he's still weak against Wulfric despite Fighting beating Ice. He doesn't really offer much else for gym fights, since he's weak to Valerie and Olympia, and can't do too much against Ramos aside from Pin Missile. Korrina is rather neutral until Hawlucha shows up.
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  15. #1065
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    It has no Special Attack power to support it for the moves given? (Surf, Night Shade, Ice Beam).
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  16. #1066
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    Quote Originally Posted by ((JAWS)) View Post
    It has no Special Attack power to support it for the moves given? (Surf, Night Shade, Ice Beam).
    It has almost as much Special Attack as Delphox does, not to mention its equally high Attack which serves it well for a mixed attacker.


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  17. #1067
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustavo 14 View Post
    In-game with Braixen, having early Psybeam gives it useful additional coverage, and something to hit Rock and even Water types with early on. It's also has a nice base 90 Special Attack, so lacking STAB on Psybeam doesn't hurt its effectiveness too much. It also gives Braixen an additional edge over Korrina despite lacking STAB. I'd say in terms of beating gyms, Fennekin has the greatest advantage.

    Fennekin overall gets a natural advantage in 5 of 8 gyms, 6 if you want to count Shadow Ball move relearned for Olympia (Slowking is an issue, though). It's also only weak to Grant and has Psybeam to at least deal damage back if needed. It worked for me, at least, except Tyrunt's Bite hurts.

    Froakie gets an advantage over 3 gyms, lacking a strong Dark type move for Olympia since you can't even obtain Dark Pulse until later. The best it has is Thief TM or Feint Attack via Move Relearner. He does resist Wulfric's Ice type moves, though, and can hit back with Rock type moves thanks to Smack Down or Rock Tomb. However, he has the problems with Ramos and Clemont, and Valerie upon becoming Dark type. Being so frail doesn't help too much.

    Chespin has an advantage over 4 gyms, Viola being one thanks to Rollout. Clemont can't do too much to Grass, so that's self-explanatory. Despite the advantage over Rock, Grant himself doesn't fear Grass too much thanks to his team's typings. And he's still weak against Wulfric despite Fighting beating Ice. He doesn't really offer much else for gym fights, since he's weak to Valerie and Olympia, and can't do too much against Ramos aside from Pin Missile. Korrina is rather neutral until Hawlucha shows up.
    Thanks, thats pretty much all I need to definitely pick up Fennekin.
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  18. #1068
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    Quote Originally Posted by ((JAWS)) View Post
    Thanks, thats pretty much all I need to definitely pick up Fennekin.
    I'm still leaving out other things like Team Flare fights and the Elite 4, though, and things are a bit different there. Unless having advantages against gyms is a huge factor for you, I wouldn't make it the reason to choose Fennekin. Just choose the one you like the most, really. That's why I chose Fennekin, and it just happened to work out for me. Besides, there's still a whole team you can take into account when playing in-game.
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  19. #1069
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustavo 14 View Post
    I'm still leaving out other things like Team Flare fights and the Elite 4, though, and things are a bit different there. Unless having advantages against gyms is a huge factor for you, I wouldn't make it the reason to choose Fennekin. Just choose the one you like the most, really. That's why I chose Fennekin, and it just happened to work out for me. Besides, there's still a whole team you can take into account when playing in-game.
    I still want to get Venusaur and I think a Venusaur + Delphox combo would work really well in this game.
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  20. #1070
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    Whenever I get X, I'll most likely choose Chespin. Greninja is cool but I'm not a fan of having to rely on Water Pulse until I get Dark Pulse/Night Slash and having to rely on Round and Smack Down along with Water Pulse as a Frogadier isn't hitting much despite the latter's typing being good offensively. Delphox at least gets a powerful STAB move when you're in the early 40's unlike Chesnaught learning Mud Shot while Greninja gets Subsitute at level 43. Quilladin also gets Needle Arm so tags helps too.

    In conclusion, I think they're all usable but imo, Delphox = Chesnaught --> Greninja in terms of in game use.

  21. #1071
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourPermanentRecord631 View Post
    Whenever I get X, I'll most likely choose Chespin. Greninja is cool but I'm not a fan of having to rely on Water Pulse until I get Dark Pulse/Night Slash and having to rely on Round and Smack Down along with Water Pulse as a Frogadier isn't hitting much despite the latter's typing being good offensively. Delphox at least gets a powerful STAB move when you're in the early 40's unlike Chesnaught learning Mud Shot while Greninja gets Subsitute at level 43. Quilladin also gets Needle Arm so tags helps too.

    In conclusion, I think they're all usable but imo, Delphox = Chesnaught --> Greninja in terms of in game use.
    You're ignoring TMs, with those Greninja gets access to moves like Thief early on for Dark STAB, Ice Beam and Blizzard for excellent coverage, Surf after the third gym, Rock Slide at Couriway town and Aerial Ace after the second gym. Chesnaught is even better with its natural moves being more beneficial and coming earlier overall along with access to moves like Rock Slide or Stone Edge, Shadow Claw and Earthquake towards the end. Delphox by comparison only gets use of Psychic and Fire moves, only getting Shadow Ball after the 7th gym (and even then, it's deep in Terminus cave and out of the way) and Solarbeam even later. It's primary set is OK, but it falters greatly to lack of coverage.

    If I were to rate the starters, it'd be Chesnaught>Greninja=>Delphox.
    Last edited by Taodragon; 23rd November 2013 at 9:15 PM.


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  22. #1072
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    How about this

    Chesnaught = Greninja = Delphox

    All are fine starters depending on what you use them for. I am leaning more towards Fennekin but still not completely sure yet. I'll make up my mind by Tuesday once my game arrives.
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  23. #1073
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taodragon View Post
    You're ignoring TMs, with those Greninja gets access to moves like Thief early on for Dark STAB, Ice Beam and Blizzard for excellent coverage, Surf after the third gym, Rock Slide at Couriway town and Aerial Ace after the second gym. Chesnaught is even better with its natural moves being more beneficial and coming earlier along with access to moves like Rock Slide (later Stone Edge) and Earthquake and Shadow Claw towards the end. Delphox by comparison only gets use of Psychic and Fire moves, only getting Shadow Ball after the 7th gym and Solarbeam even later. It's primary set is OK, but it falters greatly to lack of coverage.

    If I were to rate the starters, it'd be Chesnaught>Greninja=>Delphox.
    Even if Delphox has only access to those moves they're enough, since they have a lot of raw power. I could sweep the Bug, Grass, Fighting and the Ice Gyms with ease. Also, it resists Fairy-attacks (which, coincidentally, hit its Special Defense, which is high enough) and could destroy the Fairies with Psyshock. Also, in X it's fully capable to endure a Geomancied Moonblast without too many problems.

    So, I still think that Delphox is the best starter for the in-game quest, with enough bulk and speed to demolish its opponents. However, any starter is usable, really.
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  24. #1074
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourPermanentRecord631 View Post
    Whenever I get X, I'll most likely choose Chespin. Greninja is cool but I'm not a fan of having to rely on Water Pulse until I get Dark Pulse/Night Slash and having to rely on Round and Smack Down along with Water Pulse as a Frogadier isn't hitting much despite the latter's typing being good offensively. Delphox at least gets a powerful STAB move when you're in the early 40's unlike Chesnaught learning Mud Shot while Greninja gets Subsitute at level 43. Quilladin also gets Needle Arm so tags helps too.

    In conclusion, I think they're all usable but imo, Delphox = Chesnaught --> Greninja in terms of in game use.
    You get Surf after the 3rd gym, and Extrasensory at level 47. I don't see how that is bad. Surf+Extrasensory+Thief+Water Shuriken/Round is all you need until you get to the move re-learner where you can teach it Night Slash instead of Thief. Then after the 8th gym you give it Ice Beam and Dark Pulse, and then you're all set!

    It's also very useful in the beginninng. STAB Water Pulse at level 14 just destroys, and Froakie outspeeds everything.
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  25. #1075
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    Even if Delphox has only access to those moves they're enough, since they have a lot of raw power. I could sweep the Bug, Grass, Fighting and the Ice Gyms with ease. Also, it resists Fairy-attacks (which, coincidentally, hit its Special Defense, which is high enough) and could destroy the Fairies with Psyshock. Also, in X it's fully capable to endure a Geomancied Moonblast without too many problems.

    So, I still think that Delphox is the best starter for the in-game quest, with enough bulk and speed to demolish its opponents. However, any starter is usable, really.
    You're right that those moves are good enough to carry it. For the most part, the post was supposed to be more of a comparison to show that Greninja (and Chesnaught) aren't that restricted in terms of moves, though I'll admit I overlooked those positives that Delphox has otherwise when I rated it.
    Last edited by Taodragon; 23rd November 2013 at 9:34 PM.


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