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Thread: Legendary Pokémon Thread v2

  1. #2401
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    Let's not devolve into R/S remake discussion, please.


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    I'll ask a question
    What legendaries, if any, would you like to remove/add backstory to in order to not be overwhelmed or have bland descriptions?
    Personally for me, I would be more descriptive about the purpose of Lugia besides the sea guardian. After all, Ho-oh got the burned tower, but Lugia just gets the birds. As for removal, I would like to see all of the lake beings in just one pokemon. One egg can stay one egg.
    Last edited by Goldenblaze; 15th March 2014 at 12:50 AM.

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    The "Lake Guardians" (aka Mew Knockoffs) can straight up never have happened and I'd be happy. They are easily the Legendaries I vehemently dislike. There design was basic and looked hideous. Their backstory is also pretty lame (You can only think, feel, do things because of these guys and they can take it away from you so stay away!). Lame.
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    Team Galactic also never explained how the Lake Guardians made the Red Chain.

    In deeper thought, sometimes it's better to stay simple. For Celebi, it travels time. Simple as that, or Shaymin, who just flies from garden to garden. Victini, on the other hand. Gosh it's cute. I like it. But other than the movie, where did it come from? Are there more out there? How does it work. Some things need to be cleared, especially in Gens 4 and 5.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenblaze View Post
    Team Galactic also never explained how the Lake Guardians made the Red Chain.

    In deeper thought, sometimes it's better to stay simple. For Celebi, it travels time. Simple as that, or Shaymin, who just flies from garden to garden. Victini, on the other hand. Gosh it's cute. I like it. But other than the movie, where did it come from? Are there more out there? How does it work. Some things need to be cleared, especially in Gens 4 and 5.
    We don't know where Celebi or Shaymin came from either, so I don't see why they can dodge that question while Victini can't, same with whether there are multiples of them as that is more assumption.

    As for what it does, Victini is a Pokémon that brings victory to any close to it and has unlimited energy, which made it sought after to the point that it was hidden away. Really, it's not that much more elaborate then Celebi's or Shaymin's, the only thing that's different between them is that you get to see a scenario play out where Victini is sought after by those who wish to control it.
    Last edited by Illusio; 15th March 2014 at 1:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexin' Wishes View Post
    TOn topic: I do think that, going forward with another sequel as opposed to a third version, it would make sense that if Xerneas/Yveltal is canonically captured in their respective version that the balance is already out of whack. One is free to roam with no real counter, which sets up Zygarde nicely too.
    An interesting thing for them to do would be a prequel but that would lead into continuity problems because of the "newly discovered" Fairy Type.

    Before, we were pretty much sure we'd get a third version. Now, we kinda expect sequels. In this case, I think they'll go the third version route and have both legendaries captured and on a rampage. Or, they could introduce the mysterious seventh region and have it connected to Kalos in some way or fashion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexin' Wishes View Post
    Their backstory is also pretty lame (You can only think, feel, do things because of these guys and they can take it away from you so stay away!).
    Well, according to the legends, at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenblaze View Post
    Team Galactic also never explained how the Lake Guardians made the Red Chain.
    Yes they did. Team Galactic created the Red Chain from the red jewels in their foreheads.

    Quote Originally Posted by Illusio View Post
    We don't know where Celebi or Shaymin came from either, so I don't see why they can dodge that question while Victini can't, same with whether there are multiples of them as that is more assumption.

    As for what it does, Victini is a Pokémon that brings victory to any close to it and has unlimited energy, which made it sought after to the point that it was hidden away. Really, it's not that much more elaborate then Celebi's or Shaymin's, the only thing that's different between them is that you get to see a scenario play out where Victini is sought after by those who wish to control it.
    Yep. Exactly that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexin' Wishes View Post
    The "Lake Guardians" (aka Mew Knockoffs)
    Lol since when was it confirmed they were based off of Mew.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hexin' Wishes View Post
    The "Lake Guardians" can straight up never have happened and I'd be happy. They are easily the Legendaries I vehemently dislike. There design was basic and looked hideous. Their backstory is also pretty lame (You can only think, feel, do things because of these guys and they can take it away from you so stay away!). Lame.
    It was well hinted and overtly told to you by a few pages in a few books in the Canalave Library.
    In addition, considering how Mew wasn't in control of Will, Knowledge, and Emotion, the Lake Guardians totally needed to happen. Those Legendaries were made for that reason.
    Another thing to consider: How else would a portal be made to retrieve Dialga/Palkia? These horribly lame Lake Guardians obviously have no way of helping the protagonist encounter those two and also Giratina in Platinum, right?
    Last edited by Blackjack the Titan; 15th March 2014 at 12:47 PM.
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    Im guessing zygarde only acts one of the twos power overpowers the other and is there to prevent the population from living eternally/dying early so my guess is that pokemon z/x2/y2 will deal more with AZ and his floette conflicting with zygarde because both of them living eternally harms the balance in some way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackjack the Titan View Post
    Lol since when was it confirmed they were based off of Mew.
    Hexin' didn't say that it was. He/she was deriding them by calling them Mew knockoffs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Zoroark View Post
    Listen, you gotta remember these things; always avoid claims of Fennekin being (or becoming) part Fighting-type, don't tick off mods, and NEVER (and I mean NEVER!) suggest that Arceus is the God of Pokemon when Endolise is online. If you somehow make this mistake, run for the hills before he attempts to murder you via tongue lashing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackjack the Titan View Post
    Lol since when was it confirmed they were based off of Mew.


    It was well hinted and overtly told to you by a few pages in a few books in the Canalave Library.
    In addition, considering how Mew wasn't in control of Will, Knowledge, and Emotion, the Lake Guardians totally needed to happen. Those Legendaries were made for that reason.
    Another thing to consider: How else would a portal be made to retrieve Dialga/Palkia? These horribly lame Lake Guardians obviously have no way of helping the protagonist encounter those two and also Giratina in Platinum, right?
    I hope you respond the same way when people call Plusle/Minun, Pachirisu, Emolga, & Dedenne knock-offs of Pikachu for a their respective generation...
    How was control of Will, Knowledge, Emotion something that "totally needed to happen"? Most humans are born with it and learn control on their own... why is there a need in Pokémon world to explain it and govern it? Some legends just seem absurd.

    Another thing to consider: The writers could have written something better to further the plot than those basic looking kindergartener designs! The possibilities are truly endless if all things are considered!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexin' Wishes View Post
    How was control of Will, Knowledge, Emotion something that "totally needed to happen"? Most humans are born with it and learn control on their own... why is there a need in Pokémon world to explain it and govern it? Some legends just seem absurd.
    Well, the idea behind the Sinnoh region mythology is that creation comes in two parts, matter and spirit, and that these components hold the universe together. According to the legends, Arceus created the Spacetime trio to control matter (Space and time together were established as being matter, which is balanced by Giratina's antimatter. That relationship is mirrored by the universe itself in that the material universe is paralleled by the Distortion World like two opposing strands of DNA, just as Cyrus said), and it created the Lake trio to control spirit (knowledge, emotion, and willpower come together to form spirit and can balance out either space or time). In that way, there is a hierarchy - spirit can equal either space or time, but in order to equal both simultaneously, you need spacetime's (matter's) opposite - antimatter. That is why Giratina had to interfere when Cyrus summoned both Dialga and Palkia to the Spear Pillar; the three Lake Guardians are only powerful enough to quell one of the two dragons, and only one of the two should ever be summoned anyway, because in order to summon them, you need the Lake Guardians. Cyrus cheated a bit by replicating the Red Chain and summoning both dragons.

    And really, the Lake Guardians only have any effect on peoples' actual spirits if you buy into the legends. In all likelihood, their relationship to spirit is just the interpretation of ancient people who thought that their relationship with the dragons mirrored that of spirit and matter. Granted that they do clearly have some connection to those elements, hence them being drawn to places in Unova where those elements were in a higher concentration (Nacrene City - Knowledge, Celestial Tower - Emotion, Route 23/Victory Road - Willpower), but even in a recent interview they mentioned that the Sinnoh legends were just meant to represent and old-fashioned way of thinking:

    Interviewer: In our Pokemon's Burning Questions interview in 2012, you said "Humans are definitely separate from Pokémon. The way you think about it is different than how we think about animals in relation to humans on Earth." But then in Pokémon X&Y a character says, "They say that in the ancient days, man and Pokémon were the same." I'm curious if you and the team changed your mind on this topic.

    Masuda: This is simply showing a different way of thinking from a past era. In ancient times, like in the myths and legends we put in the Diamond and Pearl games, it was said that Pokémon were the same as humans. However, I like to think of Pokémon as mysterious creatures – they're closer to humans than dogs or cats that people might keep as pets.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Zoroark View Post
    Listen, you gotta remember these things; always avoid claims of Fennekin being (or becoming) part Fighting-type, don't tick off mods, and NEVER (and I mean NEVER!) suggest that Arceus is the God of Pokemon when Endolise is online. If you somehow make this mistake, run for the hills before he attempts to murder you via tongue lashing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endolise View Post

    Yes they did. Team Galactic created the Red Chain from the red jewels in their foreheads.
    That's true, but how do they get a whole chain out of three tiny gems? Most likely by taking one out and replicating the structure of the crystal, but then again, why all three? Personally, I think each jewel is combined into one that restricts the emotion, the willpower, and the knowledge of the restrained pokemon. Can anyone confirm this theory?

    Quote Originally Posted by Endolise View Post
    Well, the idea behind the Sinnoh region mythology is that creation comes in two parts, matter and spirit, and that these components hold the universe together. According to the legends, Arceus created the Spacetime trio to control matter (Space and time together were established as being matter, which is balanced by Giratina's antimatter. That relationship is mirrored by the universe itself in that the material universe is paralleled by the Distortion World like two opposing strands of DNA, just as Cyrus said), and it created the Lake trio to control spirit (knowledge, emotion, and willpower come together to form spirit and can balance out either space or time). In that way, there is a hierarchy - spirit can equal either space or time, but in order to equal both simultaneously, you need spacetime's (matter's) opposite - antimatter. That is why Giratina had to interfere when Cyrus summoned both Dialga and Palkia to the Spear Pillar; the three Lake Guardians are only powerful enough to quell one of the two dragons, and only one of the two should ever be summoned anyway, because in order to summon them, you need the Lake Guardians. Cyrus cheated a bit by replicating the Red Chain and summoning both dragons.

    And really, the Lake Guardians only have any effect on peoples' actual spirits if you buy into the legends. In all likelihood, their relationship to spirit is just the interpretation of ancient people who thought that their relationship with the dragons mirrored that of spirit and matter. Granted that they do clearly have some connection to those elements, hence them being drawn to places in Unova where those elements were in a higher concentration (Nacrene City - Knowledge, Celestial Tower - Emotion, Route 23/Victory Road - Willpower), but even in a recent interview they mentioned that the Sinnoh legends were just meant to represent and old-fashioned way of thinking.
    In the first game of the D/P/P Series, like you said, the trio calmed down one of the legendary dragons, and in a certain manga, (I don't remember what it was), the lake trio freed Dialga by specifically breaking the chain they themselves made. However, in the anime all three of them managed to calm BOTH of the dragons. In Platinum, they guide you in Giritina's maze, and that's it. And the legends and the "old way of thinking" remind me of when I learned people thought emotion came from the heart, and you thought through your liver. In the end, the Lake guardian story is left up to interpretation by yourself, and you can see it as you will.

    Anybody think that the Colors of
    Dialga=Azelf
    Palkia=Mespirit
    Giritina's spikes=Uxie
    Were on purpose? Or just that Gamefreak liked Red/oink, blue and yellow? (Like with the legendary birds)
    Last edited by Goldenblaze; 15th March 2014 at 8:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexin' Wishes View Post
    How was control of Will, Knowledge, Emotion something that "totally needed to happen"? Most humans are born with it and learn control on their own... why is there a need in Pokémon world to explain it and govern it?
    Because we might've gotten worse designs if they hadn't made them then.
    Another thing is that those this trio's Dex entries describe as them being the bringer of Willpower, Knowledge, and Emotion, suggesting (but probably not confirmed) that cavemen-like humans of the earliest ages of PokEarth were not very intelligent, willing, and probably close to heartless.

    Another thing to consider: The writers could have written something better to further the plot than those basic looking kindergartener designs! The possibilities are truly endless if all things are considered!
    This is the design we have. That's that.
    GameFreak is never going to ask for a public opinion on a design, so we'll just have to loathe whatever we have.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackjack the Titan View Post
    This is the design we have. That's that.
    GameFreak is never going to ask for a public opinion on a design, so we'll just have to loathe whatever we have.
    Yeah I know that but you're the one fighting me for saying I wouldn't mind if they did not exist in response to Goldenblaze's question. o_0

    Also, just for clarity, I was aware that it could be interpreted as them bringing them to humans which is why I questioned the need for that needing to be point of the story in the first place.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexin' Wishes View Post
    How was control of Will, Knowledge, Emotion something that "totally needed to happen"? Most humans are born with it and learn control on their own... why is there a need in Pokémon world to explain it and govern it? Some legends just seem absurd.
    What defines need? What says that any one thing in Pokémon "needs" to be or happen? What says that Pokémon itself "needs" to exist"? There's no meaning to "need". It's one of these terms that gets bandied about when there's no objective argument against it, i.e. "I didn't like this so it didn't need to happen".

    Quote Originally Posted by Hexin' Wishes View Post
    The writers could have written something better to further the plot than those basic looking kindergartener designs!
    Calling designs "kindergartener" falls into that same category, in the context of "I think these designs suck so I'm going to compare them to the work I imagine a group that can't draw/be creative would do." It too has lost whatever meaning it might have once had if any.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hexin' Wishes View Post
    which is why I questioned the need for that needing to be point of the story in the first place.
    The barest of bare minimum of the total Legendaries "need" to be in the story, and again that brings us back to the subjective and nebulous-at-best definition of "need".

    People, if you don't like something, that's your prerogative, but it's when we start trying to justify what can't be justified (for example, that you just plain don't like something and can't explain why) or make objective what is purely 100% subjective (like the concept of a mythical Pokémon rarer and stronger than many others just not revving your engine the way it once did because you're not 8 years old anymore) that we get into discussions about "need" and what not which ultimately serve no purpose.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenblaze View Post
    Anybody think that the Colors of
    Dialga=Azelf
    Palkia=Mespirit
    Giritina's spikes=Uxie
    Were on purpose? Or just that Gamefreak liked Red/pink, blue and yellow? (Like with the legendary birds)
    First, the Pixie Trio are Magenta, Cyan, and Yellow. Their colors are based on the CMYK color system

    Second, the red-blue-yellow arrangement is something VERY commonly seen, it's not just in Pokemon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenblaze View Post
    That's true, but how do they get a whole chain out of three tiny gems?
    I think the gems in the tails were used also. The actual Red Chain isn't that long.

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    I am still sad mewtwo did not get any backstory for pokemon x and y. what backstory would you guys have given mewtwo?
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowF View Post
    I am still sad mewtwo did not get any backstory for pokemon x and y. what backstory would you guys have given mewtwo?
    Didn't several other legendaries [e.g. Lati@s twins from B2/W2] appear with no real rhyme or reason? Though I'd have loved an explanation for how this artificially-created Pokémon can Mega Evolveibn4 because it's for marketing purposes.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Shine View Post
    First, the Pixie Trio are Magenta, Cyan, and Yellow. Their colors are based on the CMYK color system

    Second, the red-blue-yellow arrangement is something VERY commonly seen, it's not just in Pokemon
    I do agree to that. And to an extent, I do see how it is used everywhere. Actually, Red, blue, green is common in places too. Yea, I knew it was kind of a stretch, but maybe Arceus just liked those colors.

    Quote Originally Posted by shadowF View Post
    I am still sad mewtwo did not get any backstory for pokemon x and y. what backstory would you guys have given mewtwo?
    Well, I wished that this Mewtwo was created by that mad scientist guy from Team Flare. Maybe Team Flare tried to use it as the battery, and Mewtwo felt betrayed by them, fleeing to its cave in the Village, where pokemon who have been abandoned go. Due to its distrust of humans, you, the player, have to make it see that all humans are not bad, bladey bladey blah.
    Last edited by Goldenblaze; 16th March 2014 at 2:29 PM.

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    ^ I initially thought that the Mewtwo from Johto (assuming the Johto hero released it - since there is no fun really in having such an over-powered Pokemon) travelled far in search of some way to de-power itself. It perhaps didn't have the heart to disturb Fuji & Blaine again & so trusted itself to some Kalos scientists. Kalos scientists of course couldn't resist using its power. Mewtwo ends up being an inspiration to the scientists to find ways to empower other Pokemons too. This time instead of creating new Pokemons, the managed to create MegaStones that contain the powers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruas View Post
    ^ I initially thought that the Mewtwo from Johto (assuming the Johto hero released it - since there is no fun really in having such an over-powered Pokemon) travelled far in search of some way to de-power itself. It perhaps didn't have the heart to disturb Fuji & Blaine again & so trusted itself to some Kalos scientists. Kalos scientists of course couldn't resist using its power. Mewtwo ends up being an inspiration to the scientists to find ways to empower other Pokemons too. This time instead of creating new Pokemons, the managed to create MegaStones that contain the powers.
    In my opinion this is would be an excellent way to explain the stones and continue the story.
    The only problem is that scientist tend to end up on the villians side.
    It would seem to work better in that respect if it were a professor but then Mewtwo's history doesn't fit.
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    I was a little disappointing in the lack of story between all the legends in X and Y, well maybe not disappointed but confused. Only Yvetal/Xerneas had any story. We have little to go on for Zygarde and hardly know any reason why the kanto legendaries are there. Heck maybe even mew will have an in-game event (there hasn't been a Mew event for years, my Mew is the last one there was) and then there'd be all the Kanto legends, maybe mew's in-game event would explain why Mewtwo was there? Or was Mewtwo placed there just because of the most recent Pokemon movie? I doubt that though...
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkiePieFox View Post
    I was a little disappointing in the lack of story between all the legends in X and Y, well maybe not disappointed but confused. Only Yvetal/Xerneas had any story. We have little to go on for Zygarde and hardly know any reason why the kanto legendaries are there.
    We can only hope for an additional modicum of backstory in a third or sequel game.

    Heck maybe even mew will have an in-game event (there hasn't been a Mew event for years, my Mew is the last one there was) and then there'd be all the Kanto legends, maybe mew's in-game event would explain why Mewtwo was there? Or was Mewtwo placed there just because of the most recent Pokemon movie? I doubt that though...
    There will always be repeating legendary events with exceptional moves and specified-or-varying natures (i.e. Adamant Celebii from PokeBank).
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