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Thread: General Characters/Storyline Thread

  1. #651
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    I... I don't think that really answers the question. We've heard Lysandre's rants on the matter, but someone isn't just born that way. An individual is born with a select number of finite tools, and grows and is shaped based on their environment, which means that something must have happened to make him want to systematically wipe out Kalos' population despite there being no clear and obvious problems presented to us. Sycamore even tells the player that he wished he had a certain conversation with Lysandre after the final assault on Team Flare, which further suggests that there's some cause in the past that made him the way he is, and Sycamore didn't make the effort to steer him off the path he had taken.

    There's only so much that can be gleaned from the words of the one who speaks them, after all. I mean, the man's Team is bright, firey, relies on Fire types and associated 'villainous' mons, they believe that they're bringing about a more beautiful world and no one else outside of Flare is invited, yet Lysandre seems to have lied to them much as Cyrus and Ghestis did to their own Teams. I should point out that the man himself actually seems at odds with his own team once you start to talk to him, which once again points to there being more than what's shown to us. Toss in the fact that he managed to emulate the Mega Ring and awakened the Mega Evolution in his Gyrados, which in-game lore states can only be done when the trainer has a strong bond with their Pokemon. Once you take that kind of thing into account, what he says to you doesn't really explain him very well. It's just the barest of hints that there's something greater under the surface that we never get to see. That's why it's so frustrating that GameFreak took a step back in its storytelling.

    As for Malva, she's not stupid. She likely keeps her identity as a Team Flare member under wraps and only divulges it when there's no real danger of it backfiring on her. I mean, apparently she was just a non-descript Admin in Team Flare, and there's no way to tell one apart from the other. Plus, as Malva the news reporter, she's just a lady giving out the news and maaaaaybe people might know she's an Elite Four member. In short, she likely played it smart and got away with it, and because she didn't pose a direct threat to anyone Looker decided to overlook her rather than drag her out into the light.

    And the scientists, you can't blame someone for being curious about them. Out of everyone in Team Flare they're easily the most easily identifiable members aside from Lysandre himself, and generally when someone isn't just a random mook they have some kind of story associated with them. Here, we face off against each of them once or twice at most, and all the perceived importance that goes along with them falls flat. Even Xerosic was essentially a cardboard cutout until post-game, and he turned out to be a moderately interesting character.

  2. #652
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drilltank View Post
    I... I don't think that really answers the question. We've heard Lysandre's rants on the matter, but someone isn't just born that way. An individual is born with a select number of finite tools, and grows and is shaped based on their environment, which means that something must have happened to make him want to systematically wipe out Kalos' population despite there being no clear and obvious problems presented to us.
    It does explain it, because he said it right there - he wanted to change the world, and tried to do it cleanly using the profits that he made, but came to see that that wasn't making a difference and that people were ignorant and selfish, which led him to conclude that it was necessary to purge the world of those people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Zoroark View Post
    Listen, you gotta remember these things; always avoid claims of Fennekin being (or becoming) part Fighting-type, don't tick off mods, and NEVER (and I mean NEVER!) suggest that Arceus is the God of Pokemon when Endolise is online. If you somehow make this mistake, run for the hills before he attempts to murder you via tongue lashing.

  3. #653
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    I don't think he lied to them, the grunts clearly know what's up most of the time. They're just a group of absolutely terrible people. The grunts are foils to Lysandre as he's barely selfish (shown by how tortured he is by his solution, he genuinely wanted to help everyone) and his grunts clearly are.
    Last edited by diakyu; 24th January 2014 at 2:51 AM.
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  4. #654
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    Endolise: I mean what were his life experiences that lead up to that decision? With N, he wanted to separate Pokemon and humans because he was led to believe that all Trainers were inherently evil. He told us about the latter, but it's only through finding out more about him through other sources do we see what led to him becoming who he was. With Lysandre, it was the same deal. We know what he wanted to do and why he wanted to do it, but not what influenced him to make that choice to try and save the world to begin with.

    As for this lying to his Grunts, none of them seemed overly aware (at least in Y), that his ultimate plan was to wipe out everyone. Maybe the scientists knew, Xerosic certainly did, but the grunts never struck me as understanding what his true goal was. Maybe it was just me, but it seemed like he was disgusted by his own grunts after a while.

    Of course, this is just my understanding of things.

  5. #655
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    Giai Theory? Grunts are pawns. They need only play their part. They don't need to know the finer details in case of betrayal or capture and interrogation.

    Right or Wrong. Means and Ends. Conviction. Perspective. Can you see past yourself? Can you see a bigger picture? Or who just wants to see the world burn?

    Who activated the weapon?
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  6. #656
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    I guess that's what I get for blasting through Y in two days.
    I find your lack of PerfectWorldShipping disturbing

  7. #657
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drilltank View Post
    Endolise: I mean what were his life experiences that lead up to that decision? With N, he wanted to separate Pokemon and humans because he was led to believe that all Trainers were inherently evil. He told us about the latter, but it's only through finding out more about him through other sources do we see what led to him becoming who he was. With Lysandre, it was the same deal. We know what he wanted to do and why he wanted to do it, but not what influenced him to make that choice to try and save the world to begin with.
    But we do know what he wanted to do and why he wanted to do it. He had idealistic plans for the future of the world but became disenchanted after his methods failed to make a difference and after seeing how selfish and greedy some humans could be when it came to taking already-limited resources. So he enacted a plan to purge the world of those people in order to cut the population down to a more manageable size. That is all that we really need to know. It is a clear endgame with a clear motive and cause.

    Although honestly, I think that you may be expecting a bit much from a Pokémon game there. They are not generally filled with characters who are so complex that you could write your thesis about them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drilltank View Post
    As for this lying to his Grunts, none of them seemed overly aware (at least in Y), that his ultimate plan was to wipe out everyone. Maybe the scientists knew, Xerosic certainly did, but the grunts never struck me as understanding what his true goal was. Maybe it was just me, but it seemed like he was disgusted by his own grunts after a while.
    He did not want to wipe out everybody but himself. He was not Cyrus. Had he successfully managed to activate the ultimate weapon, then when all was said and done (in both games), Team Flare would have been the only population. He was not going to kill them. He was going to kill everybody but them so that all of the world's resources could be shared by a small group of like-minded people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Zoroark View Post
    Listen, you gotta remember these things; always avoid claims of Fennekin being (or becoming) part Fighting-type, don't tick off mods, and NEVER (and I mean NEVER!) suggest that Arceus is the God of Pokemon when Endolise is online. If you somehow make this mistake, run for the hills before he attempts to murder you via tongue lashing.

  8. #658
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    two days? Did you sleep at all?
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  9. #659
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPIKE06 View Post
    two days? Did you sleep at all?
    Yes, actually I did. It was just the main story and I guess that goes to show how much I loved it just in terms of gameplay.
    I find your lack of PerfectWorldShipping disturbing

  10. #660
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPIKE06 View Post
    two days? Did you sleep at all?
    It took me a sleepless night, but I managed to beat Y in a day.
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  11. #661
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    To my understanding, Lysandre traveled across Kalos at a young age and realized how ignorant people can be (At least that's what it says in a journal in Lysandre Labs). But exactly who did he meet and what did this person/persons do? It just gives me a bad impression of the backstory.
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  12. #662
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbro223 View Post
    To my understanding, Lysandre traveled across Kalos at a young age and realized how ignorant people can be (At least that's what it says in a journal in Lysandre Labs). But exactly who did he meet and what did this person/persons do? It just gives me a bad impression of the backstory.
    I will guess it's just The Usual:
    -Selfish people
    -Greedy people
    -Mustache twirling evil people
    -People with no ambition I guess
    -For irony, vain people
    Basically think of any human vice

  13. #663
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbro223 View Post
    It took me a sleepless night, but I managed to beat Y in a day.
    I believe that's called a Sleeplocke (no breaks in gameplay until the main story is finished, Nuzlocke 'if you faint it, it's dead' is optional for these to avoid rage over losing sleep due to losing their team mid-E4)
    I find your lack of PerfectWorldShipping disturbing

  14. #664
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbro223 View Post
    To my understanding, Lysandre traveled across Kalos at a young age and realized how ignorant people can be (At least that's what it says in a journal in Lysandre Labs). But exactly who did he meet and what did this person/persons do? It just gives me a bad impression of the backstory.
    Which was pretty much handled as sweeping the realities of life under the rug in a game aimed at children. "OH yeah, I met some bad people and now I think mass genocide is the best option but I feel so bad (for those who aren't in Team Flare)."


    ...And people actually like him?

  15. #665
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexin' Wishes View Post
    "OH yeah, I met some bad people and now I think mass genocide is the best option but I feel so bad (for those who aren't in Team Flare)."
    You are ignoring the whole "I tried to change the world legitimately by selflessly contributing money that I made with my research but became disheartened when I only saw more greed and selfishness" thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Zoroark View Post
    Listen, you gotta remember these things; always avoid claims of Fennekin being (or becoming) part Fighting-type, don't tick off mods, and NEVER (and I mean NEVER!) suggest that Arceus is the God of Pokemon when Endolise is online. If you somehow make this mistake, run for the hills before he attempts to murder you via tongue lashing.

  16. #666
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    Oh yeah, my bad, that perfectly justifies mass genocide.

  17. #667
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexin' Wishes View Post
    Oh yeah, my bad, that perfectly justifies mass genocide.
    Lysandre was probably somewhat mentally unstable to begin with. Of course, if this is true it'll probably be PokeSpe canon and possibly not relevant to the games. I know there are some differences in some of the international versions but most of those are translation nuances with no real impact on the story. I guess we have sit around and hope that we get more backstory on these guys. Also, whoever stated the entire Team Flare issue was resolved and everything was made clear, no, it wasn't. There are unnamed admins AND the scientist girls, so generic higher-ups doesn't really work as an explanation for them. Also, yes, Lysandre said he gave up on helping people, but why the sudden turn? Did someone possibly disappoint him so thoroughly that he decided humanity as a whole was doomed? (I'm -really- hoping Sycamore is the reason but that's just the shipper in me.) Also, him being dead is a big problem if we get a sequel instead of a usual 3rd version. Backstory just seems to be an element that would add a lot more depth, especially with AZ being so involved (even if not by choice) with Team Flare's plans and him getting an entire cutscene explaining his story. Why was he the only person to get something like that? Honestly, if he got that much attention and only one battle (and very little interaction with the protag) there should have been at least a little more postgame for others.
    I find your lack of PerfectWorldShipping disturbing

  18. #668
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexin' Wishes View Post
    Oh yeah, my bad, that perfectly justifies mass genocide.
    Nothing justifies mass genocide.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Zoroark View Post
    Listen, you gotta remember these things; always avoid claims of Fennekin being (or becoming) part Fighting-type, don't tick off mods, and NEVER (and I mean NEVER!) suggest that Arceus is the God of Pokemon when Endolise is online. If you somehow make this mistake, run for the hills before he attempts to murder you via tongue lashing.

  19. #669
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    @ candycanecat, I wouldn't think to hard about the admins. They're just strong grunts and just as disposable. Them being unnamed is not a problem.
    To right the countless wrongs of our day, we shine this light of true redemption, that this place may become as paradise. What a wonderful world such would be...

  20. #670

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    The fat guy in Team Flare's base pissed the hell out of me. I mean, that "button" situation was ridiculous:

    He was talking for good 10 minutes about a device he holds in his hand that will start world's destruction. And our character was just standing there, listening to him, and doing completely nothing.
    I mean, do they even realise how unrealistic that scene was?! I was tearing my hair out when I was playing that stupid scene >_>

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    Quote Originally Posted by diakyu View Post
    @ candycanecat, I wouldn't think to hard about the admins. They're just strong grunts and just as disposable. Them being unnamed is not a problem.

    No, I know that about the unnamed admins, I meant the technicolored science girls (Aliana, Mable, Bryony and Celosia) having a disturbing lack of ANY background bothered me. I like them and they could have been fun characters to know about but we literally get nothing about them.
    I find your lack of PerfectWorldShipping disturbing

  22. #672
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infinity Edge View Post
    The fat guy in Team Flare's base pissed the hell out of me. I mean, that "button" situation was ridiculous:

    He was talking for good 10 minutes about a device he holds in his hand that will start world's destruction. And our character was just standing there, listening to him, and doing completely nothing.
    I mean, do they even realise how unrealistic that scene was?! I was tearing my hair out when I was playing that stupid scene >_>


    don't all villian have a long winded speech
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  23. #673

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPIKE06 View Post
    don't all villian have a long winded speech
    They may do, but only in this situation it was possible for us to stop him -_-

    I would just ask one of my pokemon to attack him, and ta-dah, world is easily saved. But nooooooooooo.

    Does anybody remember when Lance stormed a Team Rocket hideout with his Dragonite? Or Steven helped us fight in Emerald? If those things were possible in the past, why can't we have anything like that in the newest game, is my question.

  24. #674
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    Lysandre makes some interesting points, but honestly...Its hard for me truly empathize with him when much of the Pokemon world is made up of decent people.
    Last edited by Emperor Empoleon; 26th January 2014 at 3:36 AM.
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  25. #675
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Empoleon View Post
    Lysandre makes some interesting points, but honestly...Its hard for me truly empathize with him when much of the Pokemon world is made up of decent people.
        Spoiler:- long and full of spoilers:


    There's some sort of triple parallel going on here with AZ, the younger brother, and Lysandre going on here but I'm not sure what it is.
        Spoiler:- Meh:

    Don't mind me, I get a little too into it when I talk about themes in any media. But the moral of the story is that no one should ever make a continent destroying weapon. Seems like it doesn't go over well.
    Last edited by diakyu; 26th January 2014 at 4:49 AM.
    To right the countless wrongs of our day, we shine this light of true redemption, that this place may become as paradise. What a wonderful world such would be...

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