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Thread: General Characters/Storyline Thread

  1. #676
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    Quote Originally Posted by diakyu View Post
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  2. #677
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    Something else that strikes me as odd is that not a single character fully disagrees with Lysandre and creates a counter-argument. It's all just "well that just one way of looking at it" and "well maybe someday Lysandre would have been right". Heck, Callem/Serena thinks he might even be right but knows using the weapon is a bad thing. I mean why is this? It's like Lysandre's dealing with the one problem everyone knows about but never bothers to fix.
    Last edited by diakyu; 26th January 2014 at 6:30 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by diakyu View Post
    Something else that strikes me as odd is that not a single character fully disagrees with Lysandre and creates a counter-argument. It's all just "well that just one way of looking at it" and "well maybe someday Lysandre would have been right". Heck, Callem/Serena thinks he might even be right but knows using the weapon is a bad thing. I mean why is this? It's like Lysandre's dealing with the one problem everyone knows about but never bothers to fix.
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    Quote Originally Posted by diakyu View Post
    Don't mind me, I get a little too into it when I talk about themes in any media. But the moral of the story is that no one should ever make a continent destroying weapon. Seems like it doesn't go over well.
    I don't think it was meant to destroy any land, more just the things living on it. Also, in X canon, if Yveltal doesn't exist and the weapon makes things eternal and unchanging what happened to get the world to a bad state again? Maybe that's just ME overthinking but it might be relevant.
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  5. #680
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    Quote Originally Posted by candycanecat View Post
    Also, in X canon, if Yveltal doesn't exist and the weapon makes things eternal and unchanging what happened to get the world to a bad state again?
    Yveltal does exist in X. We do not see it, by Lysandre mentions it indirectly:

    "People can be divided into two groups. Those who give... And those who take... It's just as how the Kalos region's two Legendary Pokémon gave life and took life."

    Furthermore, the weapon has the same function in both versions. It has the capability to make things immortal and to kill. In both versions, Lysandre wanted to use it to kill (except when he finally does activate it with what energy is left in X; that time, he was indeed trying to make himself and the protagonists immortal. But his primary goal had always been to kill off everybody except for Team Flare).
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  6. #681
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    I'm going to get a lot of hate for this.

    I think everyone should calm the hell down.

    Lysandre ISN'T real, the game ISN'T real. No one DIED. Lysandre is fake and is a fallen hero, his name in english comes from a Greek warrior called Lysander who ended a war (Lysandre is trying to stop future wars). And to be honest it's a game and if everything was destroyed I'd find it interesting as to what would happen next, probably revive everyone with the ultimate weapon as the life destroyed would have powered it again. Then Lysandre would cry and realise what a fool he was when everyone was gone.

    Plus I don't think Lysandre is the real villain here, I think it's Xerosic. I think Gamefreak hid it pretty well that no one has mentioned it. Before the player choses the button that one could activate the machine and the other disable it, Lysandre says 'If you chose right, I'll accept it as your destiny to stop me.' then he leaves. Then if you were me and chose the right one, Xerosic is just like 'Lol, nope!' to me I saw Xerosic as someone who was using Lysandre. I may be wrong. But then we see Xerosic up to more crimes later, but he does redeem himself a little.
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    Does anyone understand the function/purpose of the stones in Route 10?
    I felt it was nice & touching that they're the graves of the pokemons that were used to power the ultimate weapon 3000 years ago.
    But then it was mentioned that the stones give/take energy...?
    So then are they really not graves? They are actually a part of the weapon (life force absorbing mechanism), but NPCs just assumed them to be graves?
    Otherwise, if they're really the graves - then why the energy giving/taking properties?

  8. #683
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruas View Post
    Does anyone understand the function/purpose of the stones in Route 10?
    I felt it was nice & touching that they're the graves of the pokemons that were used to power the ultimate weapon 3000 years ago.
    But then it was mentioned that the stones give/take energy...?
    So then are they really not graves? They are actually a part of the weapon (life force absorbing mechanism), but NPCs just assumed them to be graves?
    Otherwise, if they're really the graves - then why the energy giving/taking properties?
    I take it they became graves after they stole the pokemon lives.
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  9. #684
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruas View Post
    Does anyone understand the function/purpose of the stones in Route 10?
    I felt it was nice & touching that they're the graves of the pokemons that were used to power the ultimate weapon 3000 years ago.
    But then it was mentioned that the stones give/take energy...?
    So then are they really not graves? They are actually a part of the weapon (life force absorbing mechanism), but NPCs just assumed them to be graves?
    Otherwise, if they're really the graves - then why the energy giving/taking properties?
    They are mechanical devices that normally give off energy when the weapon is idle, but when the weapon is activated, the polarity of the neutron flow reverses and they begin to absorb energy, like that of the Pokémon that were strapped to them. As daikyu said, they became graves when the Pokémon that had been strapped to them 3000 years ago were sapped of their life force and died, and then became petrified into the devices.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endolise View Post
    Yveltal does exist in X. We do not see it, by Lysandre mentions it indirectly:

    "People can be divided into two groups. Those who give... And those who take... It's just as how the Kalos region's two Legendary Pokémon gave life and took life."
    Which begs the question: where is the legendary in the off game? It's not hard to imagine Dialga/Palkia resting a in a rift in spacetime, or Groudon/Kyogre living beneath the ground/ocean, but the capabilities of the other legend never even come up; unlike in many previous games, we've never actually seen Xerneas and Yveltal compared directly to one another, nor do we know of any interaction between the two. Why is that the only mention of the two legendaries simultaneously; why is the only mention of both just a simile for Lysandre's (warped) perception of the world?

    Also, why are they in the Mountain Kalos Dex if the box mascot was unearthed in Coastal Kalos...?

    Quote Originally Posted by PinkiePieFox View Post
    Plus I don't think Lysandre is the real villain here, I think it's Xerosic. I think Gamefreak hid it pretty well that no one has mentioned it. Before the player choses the button that one could activate the machine and the other disable it, Lysandre says 'If you chose right, I'll accept it as your destiny to stop me.' then he leaves. Then if you were me and chose the right one, Xerosic is just like 'Lol, nope!' to me I saw Xerosic as someone who was using Lysandre. I may be wrong. But then we see Xerosic up to more crimes later, but he does redeem himself a little.
    Xerosic seemed reminiscent of Colress, in that he was something of a mad engineer; for Xerosic, the focus seemed to be more that his technology to remotely activate the ultimate weapon worked than he was concerned about the consequences of his actions there. His use of Emma as Essentia in the post-game seems to be an extension of that; no actual malice beyond that to create the suit is committed, and Xerosic does show concern for Emma when Looker finally captures him.

  11. #686
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    I think I found that theme they were going with. This gen is all about finding the spot where all ideals can meet. All the people who had time with the machine ended their time by trying to avoid further strife. Think about it-
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  12. #687

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    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post

    Also, why are they in the Mountain Kalos Dex if the box mascot was unearthed in Coastal Kalos...?
    Because they were dug up in the mountains, not Coastal Kalos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushido Bob View Post
    Because they were dug up in the mountains, not Coastal Kalos.
    Yeah they were found in a deep forest and a mountain iirc

    The ultimate weapon was in coastal kalos, but the petrified wood/cocoon weren't

    Presumably

    somewhere in those cloudy areas to the upper right

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushido Bob View Post
    Because they were dug up in the mountains, not Coastal Kalos.
    Quote Originally Posted by R_N View Post
    Yeah they were found in a deep forest and a mountain iirc

    The ultimate weapon was in coastal kalos, but the petrified wood/cocoon weren't
    Is that ever stated in the game, or is it just conjecture?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    Is that ever stated in the game, or is it just conjecture?
    If memory serves, it's explicitly stated. I'd need to replay the game to find out exactly where though. Pretty sure it's one of the Flare members though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerDraco View Post
    If memory serves, it's explicitly stated. I'd need to replay the game to find out exactly where though. Pretty sure it's one of the Flare members though.
    I'm pretty sure that Lysandre says it outright when you first see it.

    e: a quick check of bulbapedia quotes says maybe not him. Maybe one of hte scientists

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    It's a grunt that says it was a pain to go into the mountains to find them.
    To right the countless wrongs of our day, we shine this light of true redemption, that this place may become as paradise. What a wonderful world such would be...

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    Quote Originally Posted by R_N View Post
    Yeah they were found in a deep forest and a mountain iirc

    The ultimate weapon was in coastal kalos, but the petrified wood/cocoon weren't

    Presumably

    somewhere in those cloudy areas to the upper right
    I think there's more to Terminus Cave than what we've seen in the game, maybe there's something past where Zygarde appears that might be significant to the legendaries. Kind of like how in BW2, they added an extra room to Giant Chasm.

    What's odd though is that there's more clouds above Frost Cavern, and I don't think that place has much to do with the legendaries.
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    Quote Originally Posted by diakyu View Post
    It's a grunt that says it was a pain to go into the mountains to find them.
    Where's the Grunt?

    I might be able to look up a Let's Play to see what he said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    Where's the Grunt?

    I might be able to look up a Let's Play to see what he said.
    It's very possible you had to talk to the grunt after you beat him, which many Let's players don't do. I'm playing through Y now so it might take me some time to find him.

    But the grunt was probably in Lysandre labs or the HQ since it's the only time they mention their possession of the legendary.
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  21. #696

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    Personally, I'd like to say that Kalos Villains appealed to me more than Unova's. Although their purpose was kinda shaky, their overall structure and style was similiar to Team Rocket. The thing cool about Team Rocket is, and I don't care if people are gonna disagree with me here - their pokemon were evil as well. Even though Team Rocket were criminals, and they claimed to be using stolen/enslaved pokemon, it was undeniable that all of Team Rocket's forces were having personal connections with their pokemon. Although bit stereotypical, it was appealing to me that TR's executives would use Golbat, Houndoom and Arbok or Machoke, Electrode and Honchkrow as well. All of those pokemon, do have the trend of being cocky and have intimidating persona, so they were the pokemon who wouldn't care to hurt other, and weaker minded/hearted pokemon and in fact, those pokemon would appreciate a trainer who asked them to do criminal work. It introduced a very interesting point of view, because contrary to popular belief, it showed that some Pokemon do not want peace - Some pokemon believe that only the strong ones have the right to survive and live free. And, those pokemon will not care if they are controlled, in fact, they will embrace it, if it can make them acheive a good position and make them more powerful. It was all making good sense to me.
    And it was all reiterated once again in the Team Flare's Pokemon, while it was also improved with few additions. Lysandre's pokemon represent my aforementioned idea of mindset pretty well, especially Pyroar and Gyarados, since those are new faces, BUT they show that the ideology did not die even after the impactful happenings of B/W.
    So here I want to touch on Team Plasma, and how their ideology made no sense to me. Their alleged leader, N wanted all pokemon to be free, did he not. But the whole Plasma were in fact catching pokemon, and N did not mind them doing that! Like, dude, don't you see your own fallacy? And the whole Team Plasma, they were either straight up lying to you, or even worse, believing in their own bullcr*p. They were using pokemon they caught, "forcing them to fight" and saying that pokemon should be free all the while! At that point I was like wow, are they serious with this?! It honestly makes little sense to me. And N didn't deny it, he rightfully joined Team Plasma in the end to become their Leader. But wait, did he even realise what was Team Plasma doing? At that point I didn't even know what to think of that damn hypocrite. It was just one big clump of insanity, and to me it didn't make almost any sense.
    Aqua, Magma and Galaxy were also styled on Team Rocket although their resolve was different and also a bit weaker than Team Rocket, since it didn't make enough sense in the worldwide spectrum, and the ties in those teams were not as strong, some members were even being deceived and did not realise their actual purpose, like in Galaxy. To me, Team Rocket knew that they are making an impact on the world and what's important, they didn't deny that responsibility, they did not question their own motives not for one second. They were all having similar mindset, and they all liked the kind of life they were having. That, is to me how a good crime world looks like and that is the only way how it makes sense. Galaxy were following their Leader, but they did not know that their Leader was not caring about them at all. That issues some major fallacy in the end.
    For Magma it was nicer because it made sense to me how for ex. fire pokemon like Camerupt were joining Magma. Fire pokemon wanted the world to become more suited for them, so they didn't care about other pokemon types being uncomfortable with that situation. That, again sprouted the ideology of pokemon that do not mind to be caught, trained and used, if it was for that higher cause. However, Magma and Aqua's goals were iffy in the whole world's spectrum, and not elaborated in the end. My main issue with them was that, ok, I get it that they wanted to make the world cater to their liking and become the ruling faction in that process, but was it necessary to be evil in order to acheive that? Well not really. It's like if you like heat, then you should go sit in front of a heater. But they wanted to force the heater, a pretty much immovable object, to move in front of them instead. It's tedious and dumb, because at the end of the day, you can achieve what you want without resorting to crime really. And having that goal does not justify your criminal behaviour either.

    That all being said, I enjoyed Team Flare but especially I enjoyed Lysandre because he brought back that structure and ideology of Team Rocket, and it was much needed after the clusterf*ck of B/W :P
    While I do not claim that his ideals and purpose were very good, I at least appreciate the fact that he again was a person not afraid to use Pokemon to reach his goal and showing us that Pokemon can be friends even to villains, that they can overlook your flaws and that they will even follow you to their demise if they believe in you. It shows that Pokemon world can have many depths to it, and it can be all interesting and very touching.
    Last edited by Infinity Edge; 28th January 2014 at 5:59 PM.

  22. #697
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infinity Edge View Post
    So here I want to touch on Team Plasma, and how their ideology made no sense to me. Their alleged leader, N wanted all pokemon to be free, did he not. But the whole Plasma were in fact catching pokemon, and N did not mind them doing that! Like, dude, don't you see your own fallacy? And the whole Team Plasma, they were either straight up lying to you, or even worse, believing in their own bullcr*p. They were using pokemon they caught, "forcing them to fight" and saying that pokemon should be free all the while! At that point I was like wow, are they serious with this?! It honestly makes little sense to me. And N didn't deny it, he rightfully joined Team Plasma in the end to become their Leader. But wait, did he even realise what was Team Plasma doing? At that point I didn't even know what to think of that damn hypocrite. It was just one big clump of insanity, and to me it didn't make almost any sense.
    In the eyes of the individuals who believed in Team Plasma's public mission, they were fighting fire with fire and were engaging in Pokémon battles reluctantly as a means to an end. In that sense, they are supposed to be hypocrites. And N was looking to test his ideals to see if they really were right.
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  23. #698
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    I preferred 5th gen villians. There goal was a little sketchy but it was very detailed and done. Some people may think N was a moron but i like the fact he started out naive and naturally believing in his goal but eventually became one of our friends and one of unova's heroes. Kalos was cliched. An egoistic guy who thinks he's better than everyone else.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bushie View Post
    An egoistic guy who thinks he's better than everyone else.
    Lysandre didn't believe that he was better than everyone else. He was actually selfless to an unhealthy degree, which is what led to him taking the lack of change caused by his efforts (due to the ignorance and greed of others) so deeply to heart.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Zoroark View Post
    Listen, you gotta remember these things; always avoid claims of Fennekin being (or becoming) part Fighting-type, don't tick off mods, and NEVER (and I mean NEVER!) suggest that Arceus is the God of Pokemon when Endolise is online. If you somehow make this mistake, run for the hills before he attempts to murder you via tongue lashing.

  25. #700
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    So how do you activate that scary witch girl in Lumiose city? What building is this in? I beat the game and have play 100+ hours after beating the game but I don't know where to go to make this happen.
    I have not seen this posted any where answering my question, so I apologize if this is repeating a thread.

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